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Revision as of 15:42, 18 March 2006

Assumptions about this article

This is a general article about the Naths and the Nath Sampradaya. Details which are specific to one panth or one teacher should go into a separate article about that panth or teacher. Historical facts and beliefs and practices which are common to all panths and teachers are what belongs in this article. If you disagree, please discuss here. —Adityanath 15:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Requests for expansion

This article is by a single devotee of an Englishmen turn Swami. However it reflect little of the reality of the modern Nath Sampradaya, particularly as the sect of said Englishmen was dissolved by him upon his demise.

Yes, and it says right at the top that it needs historical background. In point of fact, Shri Gurudev Mahendranath's formed a new householder Nath sect which did not dissolve at his death. Only the original Sannyas sect dissolved. Anyway, if you have constructive information to contribute to the article on the subject of the article then by all means do so. If you don't, then do something else. ;-)

-Adityanath

The article needs historical context and descriptions of the sadhu Nath sects of India. Please help in adding the same. Thank you, --Gurubrahma 09:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Article has been expanded and hopefully that expansion will continue. Adityanath 15:42, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Nath Sampradaya

I have added a section on the Nath Sampradaya, which elucidates the history of this tradition, but someone has erased it once again. Why the politics?

Please sign your messages! Don't know who this is from. Your addition was not erased because of politics. It was erased because it was taken wholesale from a copyrighted website. Unless you are the author or copyright holder of the original page, you cannot give permission to release it under the GNU Free Documentation License. It is standard policy on Misplaced Pages to check the web to see if a new addition was lifted from another website. If so, it is removed so that Misplaced Pages does not become liable for copyright violation. Please see the pertinent section of the Misplaced Pages Copyright policy. Also, if you are the original author, you will want to be aware of what releasing your work under the GFDL entails - it means that anyone can use and/or change your work for any purpose, even a commercial purpose, as long as they abide by the terms of the GFDL. Is that really what you want to do? If you are not the author or copyright holder, do you think they will appreciate your doing so? -Adityanath 20:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed paragraph

Today the Nath Siddhas of the Himalayas are called the Siddha Sangh, The Guardian Wall of Humanity, or The Great White Brotherhood. They guide the evolution of the human race quietly in the shadows, and are generally not available to the masses for personal guidance. The only currently known Nath Siddha that is widely available to sincere seekers of the East and West is known as Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath. He gives direct initiation into Shiv-Goraksha-Babaji's Kriya Yoga, and Hamsa Yoga, The Way of the White Swan.

This paragraph contains many POV statements not accepted by Naths in general. For example, I do not believe that the Great White Brotherhood refers to the Naths at all. I also do not agree that Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath is the only Nath siddha available to seekers in the East and West. These are the POV of members of his school and belong in the article Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath which has been referenced under See also in this article. -Adityanath 03:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Copyright violations

Hi Adityanath,

You have flagged the page on Yogiraj Gurunath as a possible copyright violation. That is a legitimate concern. I would like to ask you under what authority have you reprinted the text from your Gurudev Mahendranath, and what do you do to satisfy Misplaced Pages's standards to authenticate your copyright reprint rights?

Thanks, Hamsacharya dan 08:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi H.D.,

Well, there are two different issues here. Small amounts of quoted text with an attribution and a reference are fair use. Say 2 or 3 paragraphs, maybe more if the paragraphs are short. This is also okay with our copyright agent so there is no problem. Quoted text does not become subject to the GFDL - it may be copied along with the article, of course, but not changed or used in another context except with permission or under fair use, etc.

The WP policy is primarily against an article being directly copied from a copyrighted source, whether a book or a website. This is only okay if the copyright holder has given permission to release the material under the GFDL. Normally, WP expects that you will write any material you contribute as generally only the original author can give permision to release under GFDL. Certainly you may quote from copyrighted source with attribution of course, but if less than say, 2/3s of an article is original, it may get flagged as excessive use of copyrighted material.

Hope this helps...

—Adityanath 14:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Most recent version of Yogiraj Gurunath edit

Aditya - Thank you for you most recent edit. This is much much closer to something acceptable by me - the only problems are that I have not verified some of your wording of my statement - for example I don't know the details of his initiation by Sundernath - he hasn't classified himself as a Dharam Nathi, but I would be comfortable saying that he is a Gorakhnathi. I also don't know whether Gurunath would agree with your comment about rarely giving a Nath initiation. Different sampradayas after all have different understanding of what that constitutes, as we've discussed. I would rather leave out information that I'm not sure about, since I don't want to mislead people. You are correct about his birth year. If you are open to working with me to finalize an edit that is acceptable to both of us fully, I think that would be the most productive thing, rather than another edit war. Out of respect for your gesture, I will not edit the page, but will instead offer an alternative here, that we can discuss:

Another more recent teacher is Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath (b. 1944), who spent his early years amongst the Nath yogis (who he also refers to as the Hamsas - Supreme Swans) of the Himalayas, in whose presence he was transformed. According to Gurunath, this transformation culminated with his deep and personal experience with Shiv-Goraksha-Babaji at the age of 23. Sometime later, he founded the Hamsa Yoga Sangh and is purported by his disciples and devotees to be a modern living master and Nath siddha. His book, entitled Wings to Freedom: Mystic Revelations from Babaji & the Himalayan Yogis was first published in 2004. He gives initiation throughout the world into what he calls Mahavatar Babaji's Shiva Shakti Kriya Yoga.

~Hamsacharya Dan

Dan, you don't seem to get it. This article is about the Naths, not about Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath. There is no reason to put the information I've italicized above into this article. What goes here is names, dates, initiator, lineage, organization and publication. Life experiences, personal details, etc. should go in the article about the subject. Frankly, we don't need this paragraph or the one I added about Mahendranath to balance it at all. People are smart enough to follow the see also links. In fact, if you're going to keep PROMOTING, I think I'd rather simply remove that section again. —Adityanath 13:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Sources

Please use reputable academic sources for this article. Might I suggest The Alchemical Body by David Gordon White. There are others. I'll add them as I recall them. Chai Walla 04:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

define reputable per wikipedia policy. please include references to wikipedia policy when requesting edit conformation. Hamsacharya dan 04:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Go read the policies yourself. I'm not your mother. You are still a personal attack removed newbie and I have no patience to educate you. Chai Walla 04:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)