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Revision as of 13:34, 3 October 2011

Azerbaijan Start‑class High‑importance

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Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Unassessed

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Please note Tuscumbia that even the two non-Azerbaijani government affiliated sources, van der Leeuw and Bolukbasi, make use of the word allegedly, signifying that they themselves are not ready to lay the blame against this shadowy organization. I highly doubt the men who were arrested in connection to the bombing were afforded a fair trial and there are enough embarrassing mistakes to ensure that the Azerbaijani government's assertions, which this article is entirely based on, should not be taken at face value.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:19, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they are alleging Vrezh's involvement which is why I reworded. Whether you doubt anything or not, the fact that these two Armenians who were operatives of Vrezh, were convicted is indisputable. The court system at the time was supervised by the Soviets, hence your assertions about Azerbaijani government's wrongdoing is baseless. The fact that individials like Edik Grigoryan who took an active part in Sumgait events or three terrorists who murdered Salatin Askerova along with Soviet officers, were let go in Moscow even though they were caught by Azerbaijani authorities is as much indisputable. So, no need to color this and other terrorist acts as something disputed. Tuscumbia (talk) 19:05, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

One more thing. If these individuals, and specifically Tatevosov (Tatevosyan) who was later exchanged for an Azerbaijani hostage, were "wrongfully" convicted by that "shameless" Azerbaijani government, I can assure you, 100% that the Armenian media and government would have a years long celebration, taking him to every possible TV show to tell his story of wrongful conviction. Tuscumbia (talk) 19:08, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily so. The whole event might have been so preposterous, like the sham Azerbaijani arguments during the assassination of the Armenian officer in Hungary, that there was no need to refute or celebrate anything. This all smells like another trick of Azerbaijani KGB. Szeget (talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I have reworded the text a second time but your initial revision only served to obfuscate, not clarify, the circumstances of the individuals' arrest. Courts in the Soviet Union did not have the most squeakiest records for giving prisoners fair trials and I really doubt the central government really held any sway in Azerbaijan by late 1990/1991, what with the drive for independence and all. The Azerbaijani government frames the entire case in whichever way it sees fit and it becomes impossible to verify independently anything it says. To call all this indisputable is, as Szeget writes above, preposterous. Just like the 1994 bombing, it's really difficult to make sense of how the Azerbaijani government so quickly finds these perpetrators, executing most of them before any real questions be asked.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:22, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Marshall, you're transporting your personal vendetta to Misplaced Pages articles. Whether you have personal perceptions and views on Azerbaijani government or not is your problem. Don't make it mine or any other editor's, for that matter. Courts in Soviet Azerbaijan were supervised by Soviets and these individuals got a fair trial. If it were for Azerbaijani nationalist sentiments and at the hands of the Azerbaijani government as you allege, both would have been sentenced to death. To make the story short, I'll just ask you to refrain from your political agenda and stick to sources. The sources clearly say these two Armenian terrorists who blew up a bus with 60 people, were tried and sentenced. If you have any sources refuting the data or any reliable information from one of the convicted, please feel free to discuss. Otherwise, stop your edit-warring. Period. Tuscumbia (talk) 13:34, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

• Start-Class Azerbaijan articles
• High-importance Azerbaijan articles
• WikiProject Azerbaijan articles
• Unassessed Crime-related articles
• Unknown-importance Crime-related articles
• Unassessed Terrorism articles
• Unknown-importance Terrorism articles
• Terrorism task force articles
• WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles