Misplaced Pages

Talk:Otis Redding: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 17:19, 19 December 2011 editTomcat7 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers52,110 edits →Self-assessment at B class: +← Previous edit Revision as of 17:37, 19 December 2011 edit undoBinksternet (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers494,015 edits →Self-assessment at B class: not well writtenNext edit →
Line 62: Line 62:
# The article contains supporting materials where appropriate. Illustrations are encouraged, though not required. Diagrams and an infobox etc. should be included where they are relevant and useful to the content.{{done|met}} # The article contains supporting materials where appropriate. Illustrations are encouraged, though not required. Diagrams and an infobox etc. should be included where they are relevant and useful to the content.{{done|met}}
# The article presents its content in an appropriately understandable way. It is written with as broad an audience in mind as possible. Although Misplaced Pages is more than just a general encyclopedia, the article should not assume unnecessary technical background and technical terms should be explained or avoided where possible.{{done|met}} # The article presents its content in an appropriately understandable way. It is written with as broad an audience in mind as possible. Although Misplaced Pages is more than just a general encyclopedia, the article should not assume unnecessary technical background and technical terms should be explained or avoided where possible.{{done|met}}

:I do not think that this article is reasonably well-written, which is why I gave it a C-class rating. As you say, anybody is able to assess an article, and Jezhotwells gave it a C-class today. Then you reverted him, and I reverted you after performing my own assessment, and I posted my comment here. You reverted me, so now we are in the middle of edit warring over the rating, with you doing the warring. ] (]) 17:37, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:37, 19 December 2011

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Otis Redding article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2
Former featured article candidateOtis Redding is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 21, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
November 16, 2011Good article nomineeNot listed
November 16, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
November 28, 2011Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 15, 2011Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former featured article candidate
This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconR&B and Soul Music Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.R&B and Soul MusicWikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicTemplate:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicR&B and Soul Music
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconGeorgia (U.S. state) Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Georgia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (U.S. state)Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)Template:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)Georgia (U.S. state)
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) To-do:

 Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconBiography: Musicians
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as High-importance).
This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Since the external publication copied Misplaced Pages rather than the reverse, please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:
Additional comments
The website in general has archives dating back quite some ways () but that subpage doesn't seem to be that old. It isn't archived in itself. Contextual clues support the conclusion that we had the content first. For instance, I looked for the phrase "Steely Dan" and found it introduced in May 2008, when much of the content of that section was already there. We find a different IP adding in another phrase in June 2008 that is also used in that external site. The next day, another IP added information on Nick Hornby. Later that same month, a registered user adds info on Dirty Dancing. It's quite unlikely that multiple users over an extended span of time copied content from that page bit by bit, so I think that in the absence of other evidence we can safely assume that at some point after June 2008, they copied it from us. --Moonriddengirl 13:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Template:Findnotice

Edit history note

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Otis Redding/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk · contribs) 03:08, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: one found, unlinked Wayne Jackson as no Wiki article on this musician. Jezhotwells (talk) 03:15, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells (talk) 03:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Substantive review will be posted within 24 hours. Jezhotwells (talk) 03:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    and he helped to craft the lean and powerful style of R&B POV phrase needs direct attribution - who said that - is it in fact a quote?
    It is not a quote; in and you see similar statements
    I didn't make myself clear. If you wrote "the lean and powerful style" then that is a POV statement an needs removing. If someine else said that, it needs attribution. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
    In 1958 he joined Johnny Jenkins's band, The Pinetoppers, and toured the Southern United States, with Redding as the driver. Umm, the first "the" is presumably Redding so how could he tour with himself as the driver? Needs better phrasing.
    Is it better?
    Did he sing as well as driving, or was he just the driver? Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
    Redding has been the driver and the singer. One day he drove them to a session. In Sweet Soul Music the same question appears; the author explains Redding worked prior this session already as a musician; many believe he just started as a musician after this session. It was not scheduled that Redding should perform on that session. He performed two songs. Is it now ok?
    Although he was more popular among blacks early in his career, he later became equally popular among whites. very clumsy phrasing.
    I reworded it
    Although more popular among blacks in the early career, he later became equally popular among whites. is equally clumsy
    I reworded it
    Later Stax discovered that Atlantic owned the rights to the entire catalog. So just imagine that i know very little about this. Was that good news or bad news?
    It was good for Stax but not for Atlantic, but Stax had to absorb their loss ;)
    So if you are going to mention it, please explain. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
    I meant it was bad for Stax but good for Atlantic, but Stax had to absorb their loss... Sorry. If you read the section "Posthumous releases" you will understand whether it was good or bad
    Redding won numerous awards posthumously We don't generally use active words about deceased people. Better would be he won many posthumous awards.
    Changed
    No, now it reads: "Redding won many awards posthumously," Take a look at my suggestion above.
    Ok, changed
    His legacy remains solid; Looks POV to me.
    I don't think. His songs were mixed not long ago and his anniversary took place this year.
    "Solid" is a point of view word.
    How about "steady"?
    ''When Redding was three, the family moved to nearby Macon into the Tindall Heights Housing Project, a public housing project for blacks. You could lose the first "Housing Project" like this; "the family moved to Tindall Heights, a public housing project for blacks in nearby Macon." Reads better.
    Agree. Reworded
    Every Sunday he earned US$6 by playing songs for Macon radio station WIBB. "playing" or "singing", or even better "performing."
    Changed
    His backing band was not professional, so attendee Johnny Jenkins offered help. "attendee" attendee what?
    Attendee of this gig
    So please explain. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
    now?
    She gave birth to Reddings son missing possessive apostrophe.
    Added
    Some songs, such as "These Arms of Mine" and "Security", later charted successfully as singles. We a lready had that information two sentences earlier.
    Actually not
    Next, Redding wrote the song, "These Arms of Mine", his first single for Stax then Stewart signed Redding for Stax and released "These Arms of Mine", Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
    now better?
    I'll tell you what - take this away and get it thoroughly, line-by-line copy-edited and I will review the rest of the prose. You did read WP:WIAGA criterion #1 didn't you. It says "reasonably well written". This is not near that standard, so I am puzzled as to why it was nominated in thais state. GAN ids not a place to fix up articles, it is where they are checked against the criteria.
    I will try to copyedit
    You need to get someone else with good copy-editing skills to do that. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    Statements adequately sourced. Spot checks show statements are supported by cites, no evidence of OR
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    Sufficient coverage, focussed.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    A couple of queries in the prose section.
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
    Stabel
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    File:OtisReddingStatue.jpg needs a detailed non-free fair use rationale for its use in this article. File:Otis Redding.jpg has a rationale but the image should be reduced in size. There is no justification for having a 600 × 758 resolution image under NFUR. The two sound samples meet the required standards.
    1) now ok? 2) done
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    On hold for seven days for these issues to be addressed. 16:06, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    OK, this is still not reasonably well written. The nominator has said "I will try to copyedit". As they clearly have introduced many of the writing faults then they need to enlist the help of someone else, someone with good English literacy skills to copy-edit - then address the other points that have been raised above and below and then take it to peer review and when all of the good article criteria have been addressed, consider re-nominating at GAN. Not listed at this time. Jezhotwells (talk) 08:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Questions

What is "open-throated singing"? Could you explain, or else provide a link?

Also, it says in the first sentence that he was a talent scout. Does the article explain this more? (I couldn't find it.) MathewTownsend (talk) 23:07, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

To your first question: I did not put this, I will ask what it exactly means. I think it is Falsetto, as the vocal chords don't fully swing, but only its edges; the throat is therewith somewhat "open". To your second question: It is indirectly written he founded Arthur Conley's talent and Redding took him to his concerts, even if he was unsigned at that time.--♫GoP♫TN 10:33, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Agree that both these things need addressing. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Linked Overtone singing.--♫GoP♫TN 20:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
That isn't correct, you are just guessing now. Jezhotwells (talk) 08:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
How is it relevant?--♫GoP♫TN 19:47, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, it is informational about his personal life and character. When I asked a question about another article, William Phelps why the editor had included the statement about a 16th century sea captain that the was no evidence that the captain has been unfaithful to his wife, the editor answered that historians noted such things and it was important information about personal life and character to be included in a biography. Is this article a biography? MathewTownsend (talk) 20:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know. She was possibly at home, while Redding went to New York to record songs.--♫GoP♫TN 21:47, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
New York? We were talking about LA above. Perhaps it would help if you thoroughly read all of the sources and then read Misplaced Pages:Article development and the useful links on writing good prose, etc. at User:Tony1. Then you may be better equipped to attempt to write a good article. Jezhotwells (talk) 08:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Self-assessment at B class

I have removed GreatOrangePumpkin's self assessment of this article as B class. There is no evidence that a B class review has been performed and the article is clearly not at that standard yet. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I endorse the C-class assessment. Binksternet (talk) 16:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Please read Template:Grading scheme carefully. Every aspect was met. Everyone can assess articles, as long as they belong to a very active Wikiproject, such as WP:VG or WP:MILHIST. Thanks.--♫GoP♫TN 17:15, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


Here you can read the B criteria:

  1. The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited. The use of either tags or citation templates such as {{cite web}} is not required. met
  2. The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. It contains a large proportion of the material necessary for an A-Class article, although some sections may need expansion, and some less important topics may be missing. met
  3. The article has a defined structure. Content should be organized into groups of related material, including a lead section and all the sections that can reasonably be included in an article of its kind. met
  4. The article is reasonably well-written. The prose contains no major grammatical errors and flows sensibly, but it certainly need not be "brilliant". The Manual of Style need not be followed rigorously. met
  5. The article contains supporting materials where appropriate. Illustrations are encouraged, though not required. Diagrams and an infobox etc. should be included where they are relevant and useful to the content. met
  6. The article presents its content in an appropriately understandable way. It is written with as broad an audience in mind as possible. Although Misplaced Pages is more than just a general encyclopedia, the article should not assume unnecessary technical background and technical terms should be explained or avoided where possible. met
I do not think that this article is reasonably well-written, which is why I gave it a C-class rating. As you say, anybody is able to assess an article, and Jezhotwells gave it a C-class today. Then you reverted him, and I reverted you after performing my own assessment, and I posted my comment here. You reverted me, so now we are in the middle of edit warring over the rating, with you doing the warring. Binksternet (talk) 17:37, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Categories: