| Revision as of 05:50, 27 January 2012 editProfessor marginalia (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users8,362 editsm →Statement by Professor marginalia: typo← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:53, 27 January 2012 edit undoFerahgo the Assassin (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,664 edits →Update 1/22Next edit → | ||
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| I'm at a loss what to do here. Daily Mathsci is continuing to add more misrepresentations about me, but my statement is already long enough. His claim that I've committed a copyvio on the ] article that I'm writing is just the newest example. If Mathsci has been watching my contributions this closely, he must also have known the tag was applied in error and the content restored, as discussed . I would like it if Arbcom could please offer some guidance on how I should handle his tactic of simply posting more claims about me than it's possible to respond to within the space allowed. -] (]) 05:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC) | I'm at a loss what to do here. Daily Mathsci is continuing to add more misrepresentations about me, but my statement is already long enough. His claim that I've committed a copyvio on the ] article that I'm writing is just the newest example. If Mathsci has been watching my contributions this closely, he must also have known the tag was applied in error and the content restored, as discussed . I would like it if Arbcom could please offer some guidance on how I should handle his tactic of simply posting more claims about me than it's possible to respond to within the space allowed. -] (]) 05:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC) | ||
| '''@Professor marginalia''': You're the only one defending Mathsci here who I think deserves a response. But first I'd like to say something about the people commenting here: this is the exact same group of people who were opposing me and Captain Occam around the time of the original R&I case in 2010. You, Mathsci, Hipocrite, Aprock, Beyond my Ken, and Enric Naval all belong to this original core group of editors. I find it amazing that you're all continuing to show up to oppose me on this after almost 2 years. | |||
| R&I articles have a problem with sockpuppetry from Mikemikev, everyone knows that. But that doesn't excuse how the rest of you are acting. It's reached the point where every new editor who doesn't immediately ally himself with this core group is assumed to be a sock or meatpuppet, whether there's any evidence for it or not (besides them being new). Yfever is the most recent example. The amount of bad faith that's being assumed about him by you and Hipocrite in ] is appalling. Especially since the only evidence I've seen that he's a sock is that he found an old version of that article in Ephery's userspace, even though he could've just found it when FT2 linked to it . Vecrumba, DGG, and Xxanthippe have all mentioned recently how toxic the editing environment has become because of this atmosphere. | |||
| I've looked at some earlier arbitration cases that involved similar issues, and this situation is quite like ]. The conflict that led to that case involved a well-known sockmaster (Scibaby) and an atmosphere of hostility and paranoia where every new user whose viewpoints were vaguely similar to scibaby was assumed to be sock or meat. In that case Arbcom was clear on how they feel about this attitude, and they t-banned several of the editors responsible for it. Some of the principles from that case are very applicable here, especially ] and ]. But our situation here might be worse, because in the climate change case nobody was conducting off-wiki research and posting their conclusions in public. | |||
| It doesn't matter whether you think Mathsci or you have a good reason for doing it. The simple fact is that this is against policy, and Mathsci has been warned by Arbcom to stop it multiple times, most recently . As Jclemens said , nobody should have to answer questions about off-wiki information in public, because outing policy demands that other editors not confirm or deny the accuracy of the information. Yet you and the other members of your group still continue to confront me and TrevelyanL85A2 about this information on-wiki, ''knowing full well that we shouldn't answer''. For you to say there's nothing wrong with doing this doesn't just contradict policy, it contradicts what Arbcom has said about this many times in the past year. -] (]) 19:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ==== Statement by Mathsci ==== | ==== Statement by Mathsci ==== | ||
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Request to amend prior case: Race and intelligence
Initiated by Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) at 21:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
- Clauses to which an amendment is requested
- List of users affected by or involved in this amendment
- Ferahgo the Assassin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
- Mathsci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Captain Occam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request
Amendment 1
- That Mathsci is banned from interacting with or mentioning me and Captain Occam anywhere on Misplaced Pages.
Statement by Ferahgo the Assassin
Despite my having had no interaction with him in many months, Mathsci (talk · contribs) is continuing to bring me up on Misplaced Pages in inappropriate situations after being asked multiple times by arbitrators to stop. Arbcom has requested that Mathsci drop this issue at least four times:
- February, Roger Davies asked him to leave it to uninvolved editors to bring it up if someone's editing in R&I is a problem.
- April, Risker told him clearly to disengage.
- September, Roger Davies and Cool Hand Luke both told him to disengage. From my understanding, the only reason he wasn't given an interaction ban is because the arbitrators were confident he would follow their advice.
- And finally, two weeks ago he was formally warned by Jclemens to stop bringing up off-wiki evidence against other editors.
But Mathsci has been continuing to do this exact thing the entire time, and in fact it seems like the quantity of examples is steadily increasing. Keep in mind these are only diffs from after the amendment thread in September when he was told by two arbitrators to stop. There are many diffs of this kind of behavior from before September, but those were addressed in the previous amendment thread.
- October: Mathsci inserts himself into a discussion that has nothing to do with him in order to bring me up (including the irrelevant details of my relationship).
- November: Mathsci brings this up again (along with the R&I case) in another discussion that has nothing to do with him in order to attack arbitrator Jclemens.
- November & December: Mathsci attempts to prove Boothello (talk · contribs) is a sock of David.Kane (talk · contribs), based on off-wiki research about where David.Kane lives, another example of Mathsci conducting off-wiki sleuthing about editors connected to R&I.
- December: Mathsci inserts himself into another discussion that doesn't involve him in order to push for sanctions against Occam.
- December: Mathsci again bringing up Occam out of the blue.
- January, the most recent occurrence: This time it was to threaten an editor for what looks like a very brief involvement in editing the human intelligence template. Here Mathsci is making real-life, off-wiki claims about me in an attempt to threaten TrevelyanL85A2 (talk · contribs) as well as me with sanctions, including threatening us "all" with a community ban. (???)
This recent example is the exact thing that Jclemens told Mathsci to stop doing, and here he's done it around two weeks after being told that. Over the past few months, Mathsci has continued to demonstrate an increasing fixation on R&I, myself, Occam, and off-wiki research about editors connected to R&I. I have attempted to make an agreement with Mathsci to stop doing this: that he leaves me alone entirely (and completely stops mentioning me and Occam on Misplaced Pages), and I'll return the favor. In his last comment on TrevelyanL85A2's talk, he has rejected that request. Unfortunately, I think at this point the only long-term solution here is an official sanction administered by Arbcom that prohibits Mathsci from mentioning me anywhere on Misplaced Pages. It can be mutual or one-sided at Arbcom's discretion. Although Occam is currently blocked, I think it's important for the interaction ban to cover both of us. Mathsci tends to bring us up both in the same context, and I don't want to leave room for gaming by requesting an interaction ban only for myself.
As an aside, I should point out that last time this happened, Coren suggested the issue go to RFC. However, my current topic ban (as per share policy with Occam's IP) prohibits me from starting an RFC about anything connected to R&I. Additionally, the best outcome from an RFC would be that the community requests Mathsci to drop this issue. If Mathsci won't heed Arbcom's advice multiple times, I don't see what it would accomplish for the community to tell him the same thing.
I think it is important that this issue is finally put to bed. He has been told by Arbcom to drop this four times. I don't think a fifth request would accomplish anything at this point if it is not accompanied by an interaction ban. In September, Cool Hand Luke decided against the requested interaction ban because he was confident Mathsci would follow his instructions to drop the issue. Mathsci has not done so. This seems relevant to the vested contributors issue: Mathsci has made a lot of useful contributions to the encyclopedia, but that should not justify repeated second chances to follow Arbcom's advice every time he ignores it.
Additionally I think that history has shown that this kind of behavior, if left unchecked, can drive experienced contributors away from Misplaced Pages or provoke them into acting in unacceptable ways. I really don't want this to progress that far in my case: I enjoy contributing my artwork and knowledge to Misplaced Pages, and Mathsci's behavior regarding me makes me very uncomfortable. Because of the harm behavior like this can do to the project in the long term, I think it's important for Arbcom to stop it before it progresses that far.
New examples
- While this thread is open, Mathsci is currently removing comments by another editor from my user talk. He suspects them of being a sock, but either way I've asked him multiple times to stay off my talk page, and Mathsci should know this is inappropriate. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 15:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC) New example from today: -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 00:38, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
- Mathsci is now attempting to get me blocked at AE while this thread is open. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Response to arbitrators
Admins at AE have disallowed Occam and myself from participating in RfCs related to the R&I topic area, and also advised us against participating in AE threads related to it. Additionally, when Occam brought this up with Jclemens, he suggested that this issue be raised as an amendment. Even if Arbcom decides that AE or RfC is the best place for this request, I have found that the community is generally not hospitable to my posting anywhere about issues related to R&I. The responses I've received from other involved editors in this thread, and Mathsci's current attempt to get me blocked at AE, are good examples of how the community tends to react to these things. A decision that this issue should be handled by the community instead of Arbcom would only prolong the current conflict, without providing a chance of a resolution. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 16:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Update 1/22
Risker's comment makes me a little more hopeful that this thread might finally be receiving some attention from Arbcom. There's one other new issue that I'm hoping Arbcom will resolve: whether editors should be allowed to bring up off-wiki personal information about others in public, rather than sending it privately to Arbcom. Based on my understanding of policy and my discussions on this with Jclemens, I don't think doing this is ok. But in this thread Edjohnston (the admin who usually handles R&I related AE reports) was unconvinced that off-wiki personal information can't be handled in public at AE, and that if Arbcom disagrees they should take some formal action in this amendment thread.
Mathsci's posting of personal information about other editors, and other editors' repeating of it, has been going on for a long time. This almost always involves the same group of editors. For example in my evidence in the original R&I case almost 2 years ago, I mentioned that Mathsci was publicly posting what he'd discovered off-wiki about the details of my relationship with Captain Occam, and that after he posted this it began being repeated by Hipocrite and Aprock. No action has ever been taken against any of the editors who do this, so it's continued unabated since then. Here are a few other examples from the past few months:
- Mathsci's speculation about user:Miradre's off-wiki identity
- This edit summary is oversighted now, but I think Arbcom can see it
- This comment was in response to Miradre's request that Mathsci respect his privacy. The comment wasn't itself an invasion of privacy, but I think Mathsci's response to that request is a good indicator of his attitude.
I don't think it's acceptable that this is continuing to go on without any action, and that at least one admin (Edjohnston) is unconvinced it's a problem at all. In addition to the requested interaction ban, I would appreciate it if Arbcom could clarify that off-wiki information like this can only be sent to Arbcom privately, and also do something about admins' general unwillingness to do anything when it's posted in public. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 03:52, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
@Mathsci: Mathsci has stated last night "Ferahgo seems to be doing very little else on wikipedia except for militating against me". Since I opened this thread on January 8, I have made 59 edits to this thread, AE, or admin/arbs' talk pages related to the conflict, and I've made over 140 edits to paleo articles and talk pages. Mathsci's other falsehoods about me in this thread can be explained by paranoia or truth-bending, but there is no explanation for this that I can see besides deliberate dishonesty. As usual, Mathsci has made so many claims about me in this thread that there isn't space to respond to them all. But it should be a strong hint about his statement here that he's willing to lie about something so obvious to make me look bad. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC) The "spurt" is irrelevant; the statement you made was not true when you made it. Please look over my contributions from the last few weeks if you are confused.
I'm at a loss what to do here. Daily Mathsci is continuing to add more misrepresentations about me, but my statement is already long enough. His claim here that I've committed a copyvio on the Specimens of Archaeopteryx article that I'm writing is just the newest example. If Mathsci has been watching my contributions this closely, he must also have known the tag was applied in error and the content restored, as discussed here. I would like it if Arbcom could please offer some guidance on how I should handle his tactic of simply posting more claims about me than it's possible to respond to within the space allowed. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 05:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
@Professor marginalia: You're the only one defending Mathsci here who I think deserves a response. But first I'd like to say something about the people commenting here: this is the exact same group of people who were opposing me and Captain Occam around the time of the original R&I case in 2010. You, Mathsci, Hipocrite, Aprock, Beyond my Ken, and Enric Naval all belong to this original core group of editors. I find it amazing that you're all continuing to show up to oppose me on this after almost 2 years.
R&I articles have a problem with sockpuppetry from Mikemikev, everyone knows that. But that doesn't excuse how the rest of you are acting. It's reached the point where every new editor who doesn't immediately ally himself with this core group is assumed to be a sock or meatpuppet, whether there's any evidence for it or not (besides them being new). Yfever is the most recent example. The amount of bad faith that's being assumed about him by you and Hipocrite in this discussion is appalling. Especially since the only evidence I've seen that he's a sock is that he found an old version of that article in Ephery's userspace, even though he could've just found it when FT2 linked to it here. Vecrumba, DGG, and Xxanthippe have all mentioned recently how toxic the editing environment has become because of this atmosphere.
I've looked at some earlier arbitration cases that involved similar issues, and this situation is quite like 2010's climate change case. The conflict that led to that case involved a well-known sockmaster (Scibaby) and an atmosphere of hostility and paranoia where every new user whose viewpoints were vaguely similar to scibaby was assumed to be sock or meat. In that case Arbcom was clear on how they feel about this attitude, and they t-banned several of the editors responsible for it. Some of the principles from that case are very applicable here, especially this and this. But our situation here might be worse, because in the climate change case nobody was conducting off-wiki research and posting their conclusions in public.
It doesn't matter whether you think Mathsci or you have a good reason for doing it. The simple fact is that this is against policy, and Mathsci has been warned by Arbcom to stop it multiple times, most recently just a month ago. As Jclemens said here, nobody should have to answer questions about off-wiki information in public, because outing policy demands that other editors not confirm or deny the accuracy of the information. Yet you and the other members of your group still continue to confront me and TrevelyanL85A2 about this information on-wiki, knowing full well that we shouldn't answer. For you to say there's nothing wrong with doing this doesn't just contradict policy, it contradicts what Arbcom has said about this many times in the past year. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Mathsci
Initial response
Captain Occam was site banned by Risker for one year under ArbCom discretionary sanctions for "having returned to the disruptive behaviour and battlefield mentality that was sanctioned in the Race and intelligence arbitration case." My understanding is that, as far as matters related to WP:ARBR&I are concerned, per WP:SHARE, Ferahgo the Assassin's account is considered to be indistinguishable from that of Captain Occam. It would therefore appear that Captain Occam is continuing exactly the same kind of disruption in WP:ARBR&I related issues for which he has just been site banned. It would also appear that he has had this kind of disruption in mind for some time. In the circumstances I cannot see how any proposals formulated by Captain Occam can be discussed on wikipedia, no matter who his proxy is or how they seek to justify themselves.
As far as privacy is concerned, both Ferahgo the Assassin and TrevelyanL85A2 have chosen to place external links and personally identifying information on wikipedia and/or commons. However, as Shell Kinney has confirmed and has given me permission to repeat on-wiki, a real life association between their accounts can easily be determined without any of that information (or "sleuthing"). Shell Kinney kept the rest of ArbCom informed about this in 2010 and contacted Captain Occam by email, reporting his response here.
Jclemens' request would be reasonable if Ferahgo the Assassin had not included Captain Occam in her proposed amendment and if Captain Occam did not happen to be site banned for one year. There was an almost identical request in early September 2011 by Captain Occam during which he lobbied Jclemens extensively on his talk page (cf diffs above). Please could other arbitrators clarify how WP:SHARE applies in these extraordinary circumstances, where an editor has been site banned and their partner then appears to be continuing the same old campaign as a proxy.
More detailed response
| TrevelyanL85A2 has now been officially notified and advised by EdJohnston concerning WP:ARBR&I |
|---|
|
Continued disruption by Captain Occam through Ferahgo the Assassin
Please see Mathsci (talk) 20:55, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
The Wozbongulator (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been confirmed by checkuser as a sockpuppet account of Echigo mole (talk · contribs) who has already tried to post on this page as an IP.
- The edit summary where I removed a trolling edit by an ipsock of Mikemikev was oversighted at my request through an OTRS ticket and separate emails sent to oversighters, including at least two arbitrators. The IP account was blocked for one month. Captain Occam, already by then in his WP:BATTLEFIELD period, had seen the edit summary before it was removed and made these postings on User talk:Fred Bauder. He sent emails about this to Fred Bauder and Charles Matthews. He also contacted Atama (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) about this, having noted a COIN issue in which I had commented. From my point of view, the only possible explanation for this irrelevant and closed issue being raised now is that Ferahgo the Assassin has discussed this with Captain Occam and that he is directing her to edit on his behalf during his site-ban. WP:SHARE does not permit editors to evade site-bans in this blatant way and normally there should be consequences for the proxy. Both Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin appear to misrepresent almost everything that any administrator or arbitrator has told them. Ferahgo was told by Roger Davies to email him about WP:SHARE. No response. Jonathan Clemens told her to chill out. Her response was combative. She haggled with EdJohnston about the notification to Trevlyan006L85A1. Mathsci (talk) 09:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
- If Ferahgo the Assassin / Captain Occam cannot stop their WP:BATTLEFIELD campaign of continually pestering arbitrators, could they please be instructed to stop? Ferahgo seems to be doing very little else on wikipedia except for militating against me on behalf of her site-banned partner. Mathsci (talk) 04:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Ferahgo has had a spurt of activity since I wrote this, but that content has been templated as a WP:COPYVIO after a routine run of User:CorenSearchBot Mathsci (talk) 20:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Hipocrite
In the interests of transparency, do you know TrevelyanL85A2 outside of Misplaced Pages? Hipocrite (talk) 00:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Having done just the most rudimentary amount of googling, it is quite clear that Ferahgo the Assassin and TrevelyanL85A2 have a substantial off-wiki relationship, and that off-wiki relationship is in no way related to race and intelligence.
I don't ask my friends to show up at Misplaced Pages articles/processes to support me. Captain Occam should learn to do the same. I suggest that TrevelyanL85A2 be subject to the same topic ban that his friends are subject to. Hipocrite (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
FtA has now stated that some of what I've said is false. I've made two claims - 1. "it is quite clear that Ferahgo the Assassin and TrevelyanL85A2 have a substantial off-wiki relationship." 2. "that off-wiki relationship is in no way related to race and intelligence."
Which claim is false, exactly? Hipocrite (talk) 16:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer Marek
I didn't pay attention to the Abortion case so I don't know anything about that. But what is the relevance of these two statements of FtA's?:
- November & December: Mathsci attempts to prove Boothello (talk · contribs) is a sock of David.Kane (talk · contribs), based on off-wiki research about where David.Kane lives, another example of Mathsci conducting off-wiki sleuthing about editors connected to R&I.
- What does this have to do with Cpt. Occam specifically? It seems like just a complaint that Mathsci is "interfering" with SPAs who push a POV on Race and Intelligence article that was previously supported by Cpt. Occam and FtA. And this is a topic area that has a long history of disruptive SPA and/or sock puppeting. BTW, Boothello WAS topic banned from R&I recently for a mixture of "probable sock puppet of David Kane per duck" and "even if not, being a disruptive tendentious SPA".
- : This time it was to threaten an editor for what looks like a very brief involvement in editing the human intelligence template. Here Mathsci is making real-life, off-wiki claims about me in an attempt to threaten TrevelyanL85A2 (talk · contribs)
- Again, what does this have to do with Cpt. Occam and FtA aside from the fact that FtA appears to be annoyed that her off-wiki friends' connections to her and the Captain - i.e. meatpuppets - are pointed out by Mathsci? There'd be no need for any kind of sleuthing if FtA and CO didn't keep recruiting off-wiki buddies in order to what looks like, an intentional circumvention of their topic bans. This wouldn't be that problematic, except that it's FtA who brought this amendment up and cited this for support. Having meat puppets is one thing, requesting that somebody be sanctioned "cuz they pickin' on my meat puppets" is another.
VolunteerMarek 01:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by aprock
Over the last two years, at least four confirmed off-wiki associates of Captain Occam have joined the project to edit in support of him in the topic area covered by WP:ARBR&I. Given this long history of WP:MEAT it seems counterproductive to restrict discussing him, or his associates, when trying to determine the nature of present disruptions. aprock (talk) 18:36, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Beyond My Ken
I would urge the committee to take this issue seriously -- not the request for amendment, which is frivolous in that it seeks to amend something which does not exist -- but the issue of Captain Occam and his continuing disruption of Misplaced Pages through proxies, notably FtA. CO's site ban should be extended to any editor who acts as his meatpuppet. Without such an action, the ban becomes a farce, allowing CO virtual access to the site at will. The project will not suffer from the loss of these editors, who contribute little. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:34, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
- Interesting that Vercrumba talks about Mathsci going into "attack mode" when it was Ferahgo the Assasin who raised this issue. Can ArbCom do nothing to shut down Captain Occam's proxies?
Do you intend to allow him to continue to make fools of you, circumventing your rulings by utilizing his girlfriend and other proxies? For pete's sake, he's spitting in your face and laughing at you. Show some cojones, please shut down this disruptive editor for good.Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC) (Part struck as needlessly incendiary and disrespectful. My apologies. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:00, 14 January 2012 (UTC))- Could I suggest that a clerk please remove the comment below by The Wozbongulator, who has been indef blocked as a sock. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:31, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Vecrumba
I regret to observe that Mathsci thrives on going into attack mode. When I first became interested in R&I on-Wiki, Mathsci set upon me in no uncertain terms and brought up completely unrelated events in a blatant character assassination attempt. I can go back to provide diffs, this was quite a while ago, but the acrimony exhibited toward me at that time disposes me to believe Mathsci has serious ownership and self-superiority issues that no administrative action will ever solve. When an editor sets upon another, that is not frivolous, and whatever one thinks apart from the attack is immaterial to the attack itself (e.g., the object of the attack is a criminal and deserve what they get). If you ever want WP be a kinder gentler place, start with the attackers not their victims. Whether or not you approve of the victim is not material to the complaint here. If you think it is material, you're part of the self-righteous poison permeating WP. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 01:50, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Xxanthippe
I have to endorse generally the concerns of User:Vecrumba about the toxic editing environment in this area. My own views on the R&I issue are here. Surprisingly they have never been criticized. I live in hope. Xxanthippe (talk) 01:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Enric Naval
So, we keep having more meatpuppets canvassed to the R&I area. Probably brought by Captain Occam or by people in his environment. And Mathsci keeps removing them. Understandably, Captain Occam is pissed. And Mikemikev keeps trying to insert racist content via socks. And Mathsci keeps removing those socks. I don't see how this is supposed to result in a topic ban for Mathsci. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Professor marginalia
The only reason I have for commenting in this is my mounting frustration with proxy disruptions in the involved articles. And the disruption is considerable — two of the articles especially, Race and intelligence and Race (classification of humans), are in awful shape. While povpushing puppetry isn't completely to blame for this, the exertion necessary to investigating them and their suspect edits (to keep the situation from getting worse) is so all-consuming editors are essentially too burned out to do much more or too intimidated to commit an opinion (given the likelihood there's a banned puppet or other bad character behind it all) so there's not much progress, imo. The R/I arbitration came about due to disruptive editing practices that included canvassing and tag teaming, misuse of sources and original research, forum shopping and incivility. Those of us editing these articles out in the open are judged by our edits now and our edits prior arbitration. But if those editors who were sanctioned are granted a handicap, ie rewarded, when they continue their crusade through proxies, then what's the point? Why are any of us to pay any time or mind to the process or results of arbitration?
I have no opinion whether or not an interaction ban is warranted between Mathsci and Ferahgo for conflicts beyond those involving the R/I articles. But forcryingoutloud....this was triggered by Mathsci's firmly worded cautioning of TrevelyanL85A2 who after a hiatus in the aftermath of earlier proxy editing accusations had returned to an R/I dispute. Then Trevelyan traipses over to Ferahgo's talk page to solicit her input, then she battles Mathsci on Trevelyan's page, and what follows between them since is a bunch of yada yada about who accuses who of what, in which venue it belongs, both of them shooting a few ineffectual arrows against the other about stuff outside the R/I issue.
Trevelyan was a recruit to this mess from off-wiki, along with several other proxies. It's a DUH! for anybody with a base measure of common sense who is following this goofy trainwreck, and google, to double-check themselves, just to verify, to make sure their DUH meter isn't on the fritz. (If this needs revisiting, I will provide diffs) Any "personal information" that's been repeated about Ferahgo, Trevelyan and Captain Occam now in accusations against Mathsci result from Trevelyan's re-entry to the R/I involved articles, and the both of them (Trevelyan and Ferahgo) wikilawying a way to sanction Mathsci for incivility.
I agree Mathsci's tone in remarks in disputes like this can sometimes seem provocative, but they have resulted in far less disruption in these articles than the obsequiousness adopted by topic banned Captain Occam and his proxies. Mathsci's been an unqualified benefit when it comes to identifying proxies. It seems to me that if Captain Occam-who is topic banned-and his recruits (1st generation, 2nd generation et al)-would move on and quit trying to game these articles, then wikipedia wins. By the same token, it seems to me that if Mathsci is sanctioned such that he cannot lend help with the proxy problem, then wikipedia loses. Professor marginalia (talk) 05:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Further discussion
- Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.
Statement by yet another editor
Clerk notes
- This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
Arbitrator views and discussion
- Under the provisions of the final decision (as amended), could this matter not be referred as normal to the Arbitration Enforcement process? It seems to me that the interaction ban, if warranted, could be made as a discretionary sanction. Such a method of proceeding seems to me far preferable to any direct action by this Committee, which by its nature would probably be protracted and unpleasant. AGK 22:01, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
- Mathsci, I'm not sure your responses here are consistent with WP:SHARE. Would you mind re-responding to the concerns only with respect to Ferahgo? We're not here to re-hear Occam's case, I trust both parties understand. Jclemens (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'll be interested to see what others more experienced in this case have to say, though my initial feeling is that concerns about harassment might be better dealt with via RfC. The community can deal with harassment and potential outing matters, blocking if appropriate. SilkTork 00:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm recusing on this one as I recused on the original case and also am the administrator who most recently blocked Captain Occam. Risker (talk) 16:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)