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Revision as of 06:51, 7 April 2006

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

B.K.s beware !

This is a polite warning to followers of Brahma Kumari Raja Yoga ...

• Beware, this is not an advert for Brahma Kumari Raja Yoga. This is an objective definition of you and your religion.

If you are new to Raja Yoga and unsure of what is being written here, please check with your senior sister for accuracy before removing or editing facts.

Thank you.

Contributors wanted

But please join the discussion page before making your edits. Outright vandalism will be reported.

Destruction

This article refers to the " destruction of the World " meaning the similar to understanding most Christians have of Armageddon or modern day Christian evanglists call " end times ". It is referred to by the BKWSU as " Destruction " and so that is the term used here, as clarified in the article. It does not mean the destruction of the planet Earth. 195.82.106.244 22:45, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality of this information

NPOV dispute 70.119.13.124 14:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC) It is evident that the person who originated this article does not sympathize with Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University. Reasons:

1)There is no need to add a heading such as B.K.s beware! if the person truly thought this article was written in good faith and neutral.

2)There are links which rather than further explaining about the subject matter: Brahma Kumaris, those links basically point to groups that are non Brahma Kumaris related. It is sort of trying to explain Christianity by pointing to links were non-christian believers or supporters express their opinions.

3)There is obvious misinformation about the knowledge, practices and the meaning of "spiritual university." Most of the information given is just the experience of the writer (negative experience) with perhaps a particular group. That cannot be considered "unbias" or "neutral."

4)Even when referring to the word "Destruction" there is an obvious misinformation. The writer cannot take Christianity as the "measuring stick" in order to understand a new movement like Brahma Kumaris. If the writer looks up in the dictionary the world destruction, it means:an event (or the result of an event) that completely destroys something also: a final state; That is not the word to use when someone is aware that matter cannot be created neither destroyed (first law of thermodynamics)and that according to BK knowledge the world will continue on as it always has, thus there is no destruction but rather transformation. To say "I am using destruction as the Christians use it: Armagedon" is not writing in a neutral language but rather biased and opinionated languaage. 5) It would be good to know what the author believes gives him/her authority to write about an institution.This should be checked by WIKIPEDIA, otherwise; this site is merely a place to voice someone's opinion.

6) Religion is an experience. If you don't have the experience you will think that a particular faith is "worthless." Usually, the thought could not be "it was worthless for me" and thus there may be some others that may think the same and a group appears. Nevertheless, when writing an article for an "encyclopedia" these matters are overlooked. When a non-believer or non-supporter has "the pen" to write first, it would be very hard to come up to a "middle way." Perhaps something overlooked by WIKIPEDIA. In th meantime, an article such as this one may be hurting the image of an institution, thus assuring that the "non-believer" objective is attained.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.13.124 (talk • contribs) 

In response ;

1)There is no need to add a heading such as B.K.s beware!

The above heading was added in response to a B.K.W.S.U. supporter who more than once re-wrote the article to read like an advert for the organization. This is not the purpose of the Misplaced Pages

2)There are links which ... point to groups that are non Brahma Kumaris related.

By which you mean the links to ex-Brahma Kumari or Prajapita Brahma Kumari websites? I think that you will find both have relationships with the B.K.W.S.U., are fair sources of information supporting the article and provide an NPOV element.

3)There is obvious misinformation about the knowledge

Well, be specific here and discussion in detail. Misinformation or information that the B.K.W.S.U. would rather not have made public?

4)Even when referring to the word "Destruction" there is an obvious misinformation.

There is a difference between "Destruction" and ' misinfomation '. The B.K. meaning of "Destruction" has been clarified on the page following your comments. If you are a practising B.K. or ex-B.K. you will know fine that "Destruction" is the word that the B.K.W.S.U. generally uses for the allegedly soon to come Armageddon. It may not suit your nor the B.K.'s P.R. purposes for this to be made widely public but it is referred to as such in the B.K.W.S.U. and the referenced literature.

Quote from the BrahmaKumaris.com HQ's own website, " Dada witnessed in his vision the destruction ... no escape. The wail of horror, the rivers of blood and pus, the panic and the desperation, and then, the final death. The silent aftermath. Dada, who had never shed a tear, was weeping now. “Oh, God, please stop this, please stop this!” he cried. “What a terrible destruction! "

5)what the author authority to write about an institution.

A browser and an internet connection. Welcome to the Misplaced Pages ...

6) Religion is an experience.

Religion, and religious experience is also based on doctrine and dogma. Here we have a fairly consclusive, exhaustive and objective reporting of the B.K.W.S.U. doctrine, dogma and practises. By all means, make your suggestions, and provide references, for which items are incorrect but appreciate that the Wiki is not an advert for your sect.

195.82.106.244 16:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

your article is not neutral

NPOV dispute

In response:

1)ANSW: So by doing that you expect that no one will re-write it? are you afraid? what is your interest in defaming BK?

2)ANSW: what do you mean both have relationship with BK? If you quit, there is no relationship. Quitting means "out, gone".

3)ANSW: dinousaurs 2500 years ago? I wonder if you make a distinction between knowledge from the "Murli" or any opinion whether from BKs or non-BKs things which anyone like yourself could talk about? Is this aspect in your Bibliography? there are more things but one at the time...

4)ANSW: So the page says destruction. There was a war, thus destruction happens. However, the earth will not be destroyed nor the human race. Is this destruction, "armageddon" as you pointed out? Obviously there is no such a thing as armageddon for BK knowledge and as you explained that is the way you used the word to be understood. Thus, If there is no armageddon and that is what you meant when you say "destruction" then there is a problem when using this word. As I said before, logically, reasonably the proper use is "transformation" specially when you are talking about change of ages (Iron to Golden.)

5)ANSW:Just like you can write, anyone else can.. then why are you so worried about changes in this page? what is your interest behind people reading what you write? What is your interest in creating a page for Brahma Kumaris in wikipedia? Hope you answer all of these questions.

6)ANSW:Once you have an experience, there is no need to base that on anything. You see, experiences are not based on intellectual knowledge alone. What is the difference between "sect" and "religion"? You obviously interchange both loosely when you refer to BK. Finally an article cannot be neutral when you have strong feelings against someone.

BTW, there is no need to let me know that mi IP address could be blocked. FYI there is something called DHCP. Best Wishes and Pure feelings. 70.119.13.124 18:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The Brahma Kumaris teach that Creation exists of a single, constantly repeating 5,000 year cycle or Kalpa. That there is no time longer ago than 5,000 years. There is a fair amount of evidence to suggest that dinosaurs once walked the Earth. So when in the last 5,000 years did the dinosaurs live? Did they live in the Paradise of Golden Age 5,000 years ago or 2,500 years ago at the beginning of the Copper Age?

The Misplaced Pages states ; " Armageddon refers generally to end times or giant catastrophes in various religions and cultures. It may also refer to any great loss of life in battle or use of weapons of mass destruction. " This is precisely the as the B.K.W.S.U. gives to " Destruction ".

Added quote from B.K.W.S.U. teaching poster called, " Truth about The Creator and His Creation by Most Beloved World God Father Shiva Kalpa (5,000 years) Ago. " ; " ... the Iron Aged irreligious world destroyed through Shankar by goading Yadvas ". See ; .

195.82.106.244 21:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

70.119.13.124 00:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC) Baba has not talked about dinosaurs. I have my own theory. This is about the knowledge of Brahma Kumaris not about what you think or what I think. This is a proof of how "neutral" your article is. Also, check the use of the word entropy. You are not using it properly when you talk about the ages. and last but no least...(more to come) please don't use "wikipedia" to support your statements. Misplaced Pages is not a primary source. Students in higher Ed. institutions are not allowed to use Misplaced Pages. If you want serious support of what you say use something which is backed up by academia.

Evident Bias in this article

According to WIKIPEDIA "A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense of having a predilection for one particular point of view or ideology. One is said to be biased if one is influenced by one's biases. A bias could, for example, lead one to accept or not-accept the truth of a claim, not because of the strength of the claim itself, but because it does or does not correspond to one's own preconceived ideas." http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:NPOV

This article fits clearly in this category. There are many questions which have not been answered. Please check Bibliography. It is not pertinent to the body of the article. I have read myself most of those books. Please check form of language used for this article.

Bias

1.Language is biased.

2.Author of this article considers Raja yoga as "spirit channeling."

3.Author expresses view in a non neutral language: Sat Yuga for "its faithful followers."

4.Author expresses: "Lekhraj Kripalani attracted mostly women." Non neutral view. It should say "the movement attracted ..."

5.The author writes:"The version made more vague and palatable to Westerners is found here." This is clearly an opinion.

6."Multi-million dollar registered " educational " charity that does not distribute aid outside of its operations." Recently Brahma Kumaris gave monetary aid to the victims of the devastation in Tsunami in Sri Lanka. There is clear misinformation in order to hurt BK image.

7."Followers are taught that if they make spiritual efforts by getting rid of the 5 vices and only they, Brahma Kumars and Kumaris will live in the coming Golden Aged paradise." BK is an open university anyone is welcome in their classes. There is no need to write "and only they." BK is open to everyone.

8.Donations are generally not accepted from non-B.K.s as their money is considered as " impure ". WRONG. There are plenty of donations from outsiders which at one time or another have taken benefit from different classes or workshops. The author clearly pretends to create animosity with his sarcastic phrase.

9."B.K.s were instructed not to do general social work nor perform what is generally understood as charity." See Tsunami in Sri Lanka. Your sentence is misinformed, bias and non-neutral.

10. Author has made deep mistakes in the aspects of knowledge as well, which have not been corrected.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.13.124 (talk • contribs) 

1. Give specific examples

2. See definition of spirit channeling and relate that to what Lekhraj Kripalani and Gulzar Dadi did / do and explain why that is not channeling. The argument is not if some spirit is being channelled but what or which spirits are being channelled. BKWSU will claim that those spirits that are being channelled are God, Shiva and/or Lekhraj Kripalani. It is not possible to imperically state whether those spirits that are being channelled are actually God, Shiva and/or Lekhraj Kripalani.

Many would not even consider that such a thing as a soul, spirit or channeling exists. But, on the presumption that some kind of phenomenon does exist and that phenomenon is called channeling, this is what is going on inside the BKWSU. channeling it is said takes two basic forms ; firstly, the " total possession " type form where the channelled entity takess complete control over the victim or accomplice's body ; secondly, where the entity's "energy" or "vibrations" are channelled through an individual who remains conscious and in control. This is what is being taught and practiced within BKWSU. Not yoga as most individuals understand it. This is not what the BKWSU tell individuals what is happening nor that they are being prepared to be used in such a way. But it is what they are doing, as you well know.

3. " Satyuga is being prepared for you, my faithful children ". BKWSU philosophy states that at some point within the next 30 years, the world population will be reduced from in excess of 6 Billion at present to just 900,000 of which will all be exceptional Raja Yoga / Shiva Baba followers. These - and only these Raja Yoga followers - are the individuals that will inherit the Golden Age, Heaven on earth. No Christians, Mohammedans, Buddhists, Jehovah Witnesses will . Can you quote the Murli points that contradict this?

4. In the begining there was no movement only Lekhraj Kripalani. Without Lekhraj Kripalani, what else was there to be attracted to. He was after all to become Krishna ] and the women followers were called his Gopis. See the bibliography.

5. Explain the differnces then. Most individuals would see the Westernerized version as whitewash hiding the truth.

6. Please provide financial reports to establish what propoprtion over what years has been given outside of the organization. As a registered charity, these account are actually in the public domain already. It would appear that for most of its 70 years existence, it has been specific policy for BK followers not to give to any charity other that the organisation itself nor to do any other charitable work, other than the work of the organization again.

7. The point being that the BKWSU teach " only they, Brahma Kumars and Kumaris, will live in the coming Golden Aged paradise ". Anyone can come, but only those individuals born again as BKs will inherit the coming Golden Aged paradise. It would seem that you are obfuscating the point.

8. Similar obfucation, define " plenty ". Have those that " taken benefit " now become BKs? Provide substantiation by way of accounts. The Maryadas used to be quite clear, but perhaps, like " end of the world " and world population predications, they have changed too. In the manner that " God states that the population of the world is fixed at 5.5 Billion but the number keeps being re-edited by the organization as actually population grows.

9. " One swallow does not a summer make ". Aristotle. The quotation as it stands has been the organization's policy for most of its history. To an outsider, it looks fairly clear that what the organization considers " service " or " charity " is actually its own evangelism or P.R.. Again, please provide institutional records to contradict rather than your own POV.

10. Be specific. Itemize your criticisms. Provide evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps you can answer the question why the BKWSU organization does not openly publish its God's doctrines, in their original and edited forms, so that impartial observers can make their own deducations. Unfortunately, too many of the unpublished " doctrines " do exist in the public domain and it clearly states that non-BKs are " devillish " and our intellects are too " impure " to understand them. What are we to make of this and why does the organization not just come clean?

195.82.106.244 23:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

1)ANSW: See 2, 3 and 4 above. The whole article is about negativity towards BK. Any further proof?

2)ANSW: It is not about the definition. It is about what you wrote: "Teachers of a form of meditation, or spirit channelling." Certainly, teachers do not teach "spirit channeling." It is pretty hard to write a non bias article when neutrality is not in your mind.

3)ANSW: "" Satyuga is being prepared for you, my faithful children "" this is certainly different than " "" Satyuga is being prepared for you, my faithful "and only you" BK truthful children. " " You need to remember that every single soul is a child of God. These types of misunderstandings make your article a false representation of the BK movement.

4)ANSW:When you are talking about OM Mandali, you need to express a movement not an individual. He wasn't Krishna then and He is not Krishna right now.

5)ANSW:There is a big difference. Any global corporation will adjust its presentation according to the culture. Not everyone in the world is Hindu. When you say "most individuals would see" who are they? do you have proof? otherwise, is just talk.

6)ANSW:Actually, YOU are the one who needs to provide that information before writing it. How do you back up that info? Otherwise, you can write that "movement X has trillions of dollars and they will not share it with all the poor people in the world." Proof please.

7)ANSW: Again, BK is open to anyone. It is on you if you want to feel a part or not. You see there are no BKs who have received a "membership card" with Gold age privileges. Clear misunderstanding of the knowledge.

8)ANSW: You wrote this in your bias article: "In many countries, especially in the West, the Brahma Kumaris have introduced lightweight versions of their meditation courses designed to capitalize on the interest in New Age, positive thinking or personal growth movements which introduce basic elements of their faith and practice but avoid detailed and controversial instruction. Often these courses focus on specific interest groups such as women, business people, teachers and so on."

Those are the ones who donate monies after the programs. You contradict yourself, my friend.

9)ANSW: I showed you one case. A large case BTW. This excludes the sentence "they do not do it." You need to investigate further before you write something. Your language is not accurate.

10) There are some questions that you have decided not to answer above. At least you should answer all of them. Otherwise it is just a "power game". When I point out that "entropy" is not being used correctly, you do not take care it. That makes me wonder if you really know what you are writing about. The Iron age cannot be the "lowest" entropy. It is the opposite. Now you know. Remember the dinosaurs above? have you taken care of that?... If you have not realized God, If you are unable to recognize God, to feel God, to have an experience with God..how can the murli benefit you?

It is clear to me that your negativity towards BK is very high. At least remember to send good wishes and good feelings to ALL... how come you don't write that BK teaches this? Best Wishes and Pure Feelings for you.

70.119.13.124 01:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

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