Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:56, 2 April 2012

	José Rizal was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result November 10, 2006 Peer review Reviewed March 4, 2007 Good article nominee Listed September 18, 2009 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Biography B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Template:VA

Poetry Unassessed

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry ??? This article has not yet received a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Tambayan Philippines B‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tambayan Philippines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics related to the Philippines on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Tambayan PhilippinesWikipedia:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesTemplate:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesPhilippine-related B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on December 30, 2004, December 30, 2005, December 30, 2006, December 30, 2007, December 30, 2008, December 30, 2009, and December 30, 2010.

Rizal's Exile Shrine, Dapitan

These are the only Photos with informtion I can find..

http://www.batch2006.com/visit_rizal-shrine-dapitan.htm Photos and information on Rizal's Exile Shrine, Dapitan

As per guidelines.. no personal promotions, only true and actual information with no advertising. Ateamfog (talk) 22:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Some suggestions

I noticed the article is a bit cluttered and the organization is clunky. Facts are haphazardly thrown in and there is no clear timeline. There are various poorly-constructed and lengthy sentences like

However, contentious litigation followed the friars' attempts to raise tenant rental fees which the farmers, led by Rizal, disputed while exposing the non-payment of taxes due on friar land taken over by the Dominicans from the Jesuits after their expulsion. (under "Education")

and

This period of his education and his frenetic pursuit of life, including his recorded affections--Gertrude Becket of Chalcot Crescent, wealthy and high-minded Nelly Boustead of the English and Iberian merchant family, the idyllic romance with Usui Seiko--'The last descendant of a noble family, true to an unfortunate vengeance, you are beautiful..,'and his earlier friendships with Segunda Katigbak and his cousin, Leonor Rivera--have kindled abiding interest in his story. ("Writings")

Also I suggest limiting our adjectives guys, given that stories involving Rizal tend to be notoriously arguable. The least we can do is to make the article sound journalistic. Sentences like

The intended consequence of teaching the natives where they stood brought about the obverse reaction, as the Philippine Revolution of 1896 took off virulently thereafter. ("Writings")

could be improved by omitting words. No one likes to consult a dictionary every two sentences because of unnecessarily uncommon adjectives/adverbs (obverse is not even an adjective —- the poster meant adverse —- and this is exactly the point). Some sections sound like they're right off a soap opera; see for example the section "Persecutions". I think the anecdotes or stories in the article are best laid out as quotes from a credible source —- a published book, possibly, and not a website. Maybe we can append "it is claimed that" when citing webpage references?

Also, I think the appearance of phrases like "It seems" and "thus" and "can be said" do nothing but diminish the credibility of this article. I haven't even finished the article yet, but these flaws just jumped out at me as i was reading thru it. ……210.4.12.17 05:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The article needs to be cleaned up and shortened/made concise. Shrumster 19:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• • obverse - adjective: figurative - being a counterpart to something else. --World Book Dictionary

to 210.4.12.17

You are welcome to make editions to improve the article. You complain that the article is a "bit cluttered" and "clunky", therefore I wish you could make contributions to make it less so. Remember wikipedia is a colloboration of several editors so some sentences might be haphazardly thrown in by any one who wishes to do so. Some months back someone complained that it sounded like it came from a high-school textbook. Now that editors tried to improve the language of the article, we still have complaints. I don't think those adverbs/adjectives are "unnecessarily uncommon", as you put it. Those words are very commonly used by college students. If one wishes to read it in simple English, there's a simple English Wikepedia on Rizal. I agree that the timeline is a bit out of whack. The paragraph "Legacy" should come at the end, perhaps before the par "Controvresy". Anyone who wishes to help re-arrange this, is welcome.KaElin 19:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Jose Rizal in simple English

Here's the link to the simple English version on Jose Rizal: . KaElin 19:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Nomination for Featured Article

I think the article is very well written (mostly contributions by Umbriago), and covers most aspect of his life. I don't know what else you need, guys. We should go ahead and nominate it for FA (Featured Article). It's better than most bios i've read about Rizal. KaElin 07:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)9/26/02

         --Not so. I totally agree with Johnyang2, there should be a section dedicated to the 
         lovers in Rizal's life as most of his more famous writings were either dedicated to or 
         were inspired by them. And why is the section on his writings that small? I think it is a 
         mistake to simply summarize this section as it is through his pen that Rizal was able to 
         change the course of the lives of everyone around him, and everyone who has read and truly 
         understood his writings. Sandra5482 07:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

more famous writings

• Sandra5482: As to Rizal's more famous writings, there are separate Misplaced Pages articles on Noli me Tangere, El Filibusterismo, and Ultimo Adios. If you want to expound or help in those areas, please feel freeKaElin 22:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• His education
• His works and achievements
• Controversy of his retraction papers
• A bit more detail about his arrest and trail
• Stuff that will make him more human

(",)Mang Kiko 07:55, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Nice. I'd be happy to help but I'm a bit lazy to go through my PI 100 (Rizaliana) notes. :) --seav 08:37, Nov 7, 2003 (UTC)

Darn! And I thought you'll do all the work. :). I'd appreciate some help from everyone. (",)Mang Kiko 23:10, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The story of Rizal's language proficiency is most likely apopcryphal...the most common figure is twenty-two, but I've heard figures up to fifty! Like many national heroes, Rizal has been so shrouded in myth and embellishment that it's difficult to separate fact from fiction. Biographies about Rizal coming out the Philippines are the most suspect, as most authors there seek to glorify him.

It seems that he is not proficient in Cebuano. In his footnote in de Morga's discussion on the Pintados' plundering habits in de las Islas Filipinas he says:

Gûbat, grove, field, in Tagál. Mangubat (so printed in the text of Rizal's edition) signifies in Tagál "to go hunting, or to the wood," or even "to fight."--Rizal.

If he had known Cebuano, or any other language of the Bisaya, I think he would have commented that "gubat" means war, or "guba" means destroyed, or "manguba" means to destroy, or to plunder, as Antonio de Morga says... Happy Rizal day!--Nino Gonzales 06:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest any "historians" contributing to this article place themselves under a more rigourous standard of establishing facts, rather than perpetuating urban legends of "St. Rizal." Given all the hagiographies surrounding this legendary figure, that is no small feat.

Good luck.

--HunanLaoWai

--- I reverted older brother to youger brother as the edit was made by an anon contributor whose IP address has been used for numerous misleading edits in recent months. Please verify. adamsan 12:26, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ambeth Ocampo

I removed the following line from the end of the article, which had been inserted there by 203.177.18.204:

Rizal Historian Ambeth Ocampo

I'm not sure what was meant by inserting the line, but it seemed to be in the wrong place. If you inserted there, let's figure out what we're doing with it. :) --Jtalledo (talk) 01:48, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

TRANSLATION INTO SPANISH

Anybody who Habla Espanyol out there? How do you translate Bachelor of Arts ? Babelfish.altavista translates as soltero de artes. ...I'm trying to translate the article.--Jondel 02:10, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Bachillerato"? I put baccalaureate through an English-Spanish dictionary. → (AllanBz ✎) 04:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Right now at the interwiki link it's 'Bachiller en Artes' . --Jondel 04:57, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I know the abbreviation is A.B> at the time of rizal, so it may be Artes Bachiller. Justox dizaola 06:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Expansion

Please specify what areas to expand. Do we assume the themes in Work in progress in the section above(eg:Stuff that will make him more human , etc.. )?--Jondel 00:39, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...what about his loveydudes? Y'know, Segunda Katigbak, Leonor Rivera, Josephine Bracken...it might sound like gossip but it's still a point of interest. Whoever might be interested to write about it has to be careful not to sound too gossip-columnist-like, though. Dunong 18:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

The Birth of A HERO

Near midnight of Wednesday, June 19, 1861, when the Philippines was in deep slumber, a frail baby-boy was born to the Rizal family in Calamba, Laguna. It was moonlit night, being "a few days before the full of the moon." The delivery was exceedingly difficult, and the mother almost died. Her seemingly miraculous survival was attributed to Our Lady of Peace and Good Voyage. Years later Jose Rizal recorded in his boyhood memoirs: "It was a Wednesday, and my arrival in this valley of tears would have cost my mother her life had she not vowed to the Virgin of Antipolo that she would take me on a pilgrimage to that Shrine."

Pride of the Malay Race????, It should be called "Pride of the Filipino People"

To: AllanBz! and to all the anonomous contributers out there. How's it going!:). José Rizal, is a Filipino and it should be called "Pride of the Filipino People".:) The term "Malay" is very "mis-leading" because that term this days, is used to identify the peoples of Malyasia. cool!Thanx!:) -Gonzalo (UTC), 5:30 p.m. 1 August, 2005

While I don't see why Rizal can't be called both, Roman Ozaeta's translation of Palma's biography of Rizal was entitled Pride of the Malay Race, and as such is the common usage. Plus, "Malay" is more general. Plus, there really is no precedent in the real world for calling him that, so it's unencyclopedic. I have seen him called "The First Filipino," but I don't remember where. → ( AllanBz ✎ ) 03:32, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

If "Palma" said so, So be it!:), I like the Native name of the malay race!, it's cool!:) - Gonzalo(UTC) 2:30 p.m., 2 August 2005

Malaysians study Rizal and they consider Filipinos as their cousins of sorts. Malaysian leaders have idealized Rizal such that he is considered a role model for defying the West. Any learned Malaysian would be aware of Rizal's legacy - 7258 04:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I heard the same thing from a Malaysian. They are very conscious of ASEAN/Malay identity. It is a pity that they know about Rizal but us Filipinos, in general, don't know of Dr. Mahathir of Malaysia or Suharto of Indonesia.--Jondel 11:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but the title "Pride of the Malay Race" was given to Rizal. It's an appellation, which was accorded during a time when Filipinos were very conscious of their having some Malay descent (Of course, Rizal's a Chinese mestizo...). Blame it on whoever gave the appellation. WikiPedia, however, will have to accept. Rmcsamson 12:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Since these appelations were coined by some historians and writers, I have a proposal: how about a separate (sub-)section for the appelations given to Jose Rizal? That way, we can identify which writer gave which appelation and, if necessary, place appropriate notes or disclaimers about these appelations. What do you think? Tito Pao 19:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Jose Rizal's Profile

Jose Rizal is one of the best heroes in the Philippines. We even celebrate a day devoted to him personally. Jose is a polyglot. Which means a person who can talk 4 different foreign languages. In Rizal's case, he mastered 22-25 foreign languages. Rizal studied in Ateneo. When he was murdered, the whole Philippines was devastated. Jose is thought to have never realized that he would be still be killed even though he spent all his life helping our country, but he also realized that he would do this for our own good....

He knew this from the very beginning. He is not more navie than his friends and family. They know that he will be killed by the friars if he knew too much. He also knew that he will be killed obviously because he was imprisoned a number of times. Thereby, giving him time to conclude that by making a novel that express your ideas that may be wrongly accused to be religious error/blasphemy and revolution. He was warning the people. He was writing about events that if taken place will have a disastrous effect. That is why he did not like the idea of revolt the Katipunan insisted to do.

So, what are you trying to say, eh?

Rizal's execution picture

I've heard that picture is pretty controversial. Any ideas?Circa 1900 15:20, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Controversial meaning that it's debatable as to whether or not the picture is real or because it's controversial material pictured? If it's just the nature of the material, then it it still belongs in Misplaced Pages, since Misplaced Pages isn't censored. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

About the picture as real, perhaps it deserves a section of its own. Circa 1900 13:05, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Ambeth Ocampo Again

Anyone here who has read some of Ambeth Ocampo's investigations of Rizal's life. I forgot the title of which he (Ocampo) wrote, but some of the things in his work are controversial, if not interesting. Most of the articles in that certain book discusses Rizal's fallibility, gullibility and his more human side; it even has controversies and some minute but interesting details about Rizal's life. I do not have the book with me, but I have some of the articles and I was thinking whether these rumors and interesting articles have some space here in wikipedia. One article there discusses the manuscript of his unfinished work Makamisa, and, well I think it is a tad important. I'd be glad to help write them down.

Not very many Filipinos know a lot about Rizal. --Windspinner 09:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Ambeth Ocampo may be a controversial figure, but I think his work is well-researched and credible. I have the book Rizal Without the Overcoat, and yes, there are lots of material that could be useful in there. But some historians think Ocampo's popularization of history emphasized trivialities.

This page really needs editing, guys! So far, the facts sound like they came from one source, and the article looks like highschool textbook material. We need more depth, more insight! I think our National Hero deserves more than this. Dunong 18:33, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

FYI: The books are titled Rizal Without the Overcoat and Makamisa: In Search of a Novel. I have Overcoat in my personal library (and read it about ten times), while I borrowed Makamisa from my cousin's collection. The novel Makamisa was mentioned in Overcoat, but subsequent research prompted Mr. Ocampo to write a separate book.

About the writer...not that I totally agree with Ambeth Ocampo (in particular, with some of his opinions), but it helps to know that he has had access to archives and libraries in the Philippines and in Europe (especially in Spain). Many people doubt the veracity of his article collections in Overcoat, but Ambeth Ocampo includes a bilbiography at the book's end; it includes the standard Rizaliana and a lot more references. He has also viewed the original manuscript for the Noli Me Tangere and the El Filibusterismo (which are stored at the vaults of the National Library and, for security reasons, cannot be accessed without the permission of the National Library's director); so if Ocampo, say, made some references to particular erasures in the manuscript, he know what he's saying. Some people think Ambeth Ocampo is inventing some tsismis about Rizal when, in fact, he based these on primary resources.

Also, Makamisa won an award for it's unprecedented scholarly research---in particular, in his painstaking reconstruction of the unfinished novel, which is peppered with annotations. (If my memory serves me correctly, the award was the National Book Critics Award, and it was awarded in 1997 or 1998 ]). --- Tito Pao 19:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I think Umbriago made a huge contribution to the article. His edits and additional remarks made the article one of the best so far. KaElin 06:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Featured Article collaboration

Ok, this is exciting! How do we start? :D Would it help to get input (via email) from arch-enemies Ambeth Ocampo and Jose Arcilla?

I think it would be best to start with an outline. Once you fix the outline, you can farm out the rest and then seek the sources. --seav 12:17, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Rizal's Ladies

It is surprising the "juicy" part of Rizal's life on his Casanova-esque romances with ladies has not been discussed. I hope somebody will add a good discussion on this one. - Johnyang2

Rizal, the Romantic

There were at least nine women linked with Rizal; namely Segunda Katigbak, Leonor Valenzuela, Leonor Rivera, Consuelo Ortiga, O-Sei San, Gertrude Beckette, Nelly Boustead, Suzanne Jacoby and Josephine Bracken. These women might have been beguiled by his intelligence, charm and wit. Segunda Katigbak and Leonor Valenzuela Segunda Katigbak was her puppy love. Unfortunately, his first love was engaged to be married to a town mate- Manuel Luz. After his admiration for a short girl in the person of Segunda, then came Leonor Valenzuela, a tall girl from Pagsanjan. Rizal send her love notes written in invisible ink, that could only be deciphered over the warmth of the lamp or candle. He visited her on the eve of his departure to Spain and bade her a last goodbye.

Leonor Rivera Leonor Rivera, his sweetheart for 11 years played the greatest influence in keeping him from falling in love with other women during his travel. Unfortunately, Leonor’s mother disapproved of her daughter’s relationship with Rizal, who was then a known filibustero. She hid from Leonor all letters sent to her sweetheart. Leonor believing that Rizal had already forgotten her, sadly consented her to marry the Englishman Henry Kipping, her mother’s choice.

Consuelo Ortiga Consuelo Ortiga y Rey, the prettier of Don Pablo Ortiga’s daughters, fell in love with him. He dedicated to her A la Senorita C.O. y R., which became one of his best poems. The Ortiga's residence in Madrid was frequented by Rizal and his compatriots. He probably fell in love with her and Consuelo apparently asked him for romantic verses. He suddenly backed out before the relationship turned into a serious romance, because he wanted to remain loyal to Leonor Rivera and he did not want to destroy hid friendship with Eduardo de Lete who was madly in love with Consuelo.

O Sei San O Sei San, a Japanese samurai’s daughter taught Rizal the Japanese art of painting known as su-mie. She also helped Rizal improve his knowledge of Japanese language. If Rizal was a man without a patriotic mission, he would have married this lovely and intelligent woman and lived a stable and happy life with her in Japan because Spanish legation there offered him a lucrative job.

Gertrude Beckett While Rizal was in London annotating the Sucesos de las Islas Filipinas, he boarded in the house of the Beckett family, within walking distance of the British Museum. Gertrude, a blue-eyed and buxom girl was the oldest of the three Beckett daughters. She fell in love with Rizal. Tottie helped him in his painting and sculpture. But Rizal suddenly left London for Paris to avoid Gertrude, who was seriously in love with him. Before leaving London, he was able to finish the group carving of the Beckett sisters. He gave the group carving to Gertrude as a sign of their brief relationship.

Nellie Boustead Rizal having lost Leonor Rivera, entertained the thought of courting other ladies. While a guest of the Boustead family at their residence in the resort city of Biarritz, he had befriended the two pretty daughters of his host, Eduardo Boustead. Rizal used to fence with the sisters at the studio of Juan Luna. Antonio Luna, Juan’s brother and also a frequent visitor of the Bousteads, courted Nellie but she was deeply infatuated with Rizal. In a party held by Filipinos in Madrid, a drunken Antonio Luna uttered unsavory remarks against Nellie Boustead. This prompted Rizal to challenge Luna into a duel. Fortunately, Luna apologized to Rizal, thus averting tragedy for the compatriots.

Their love affair unfortunately did not end in marriage. It failed because Rizal refused to be converted to the Protestant faith, as Nellie demanded and Nellie’s mother did not like a physician without enough paying clientele to be a son-in-law. The lovers, however, parted as good friends when Rizal left Europe.

Suzanne Jacoby In 1890, Rizal moved to Brussels because of the high cost of living in Paris. In Brussels, he lived in the boarding house of the two Jacoby sisters. In time, they fell deeply in love with each other. Suzanne cried when Rizal left Brussels and wrote him when he was in Madrid.

Josephine Bracken In the last days of February 1895, while still in Dapitan, Rizal met an 18-year old petite Irish girl, with bold blue eyes, brown hair and a happy disposition. She was Josephine Bracken, the adopted daughter of George Taufer from Hong Kong, who came to Dapitan to seek Rizal for eye treatment. Rizal was physically attracted to her. His loneliness and boredom must have taken the measure of him and what could be a better diversion that to fall in love again. But the Rizal sisters suspected Josephine as an agent of the friars and they considered her as a threat to Rizal’s security.

Rizal asked Josephine to marry him, but she was not yet ready to make a decision due to her responsibility to the blind Taufer. Since Taufer’s blindness was untreatable, he left for Hon Kong on March 1895. Josephine stayed with Rizal’s family in Manila. Upon her return to Dapitan, Rizal tried to arrange with Father Antonio Obach for their marriage. However, the priest wanted a retraction as a precondition before marrying them. Rizal upon the advice of his family and friends and with Josephine’s consent took her as his wife even without the Church blessings. Josephine later give birth prematurely to a stillborn baby, a result of some incidence, which might have shocked or frightened her.

-In reply to the above : I wish you had signed your comment so I could reply to your userpage. I think it's a great idea to include the women in Rizal's life. However, the article is now too long per Misplaced Pages's standard. We are excising some of the less important info. Misplaced Pages recommends that articles be limited to 30 KB or less (if I remember right). The article now is now twice as long. You could start a separate article, perhaps with the title The Romantic Life of Rizal, or something to that effect. I really hope you would. Good luck! KaElin 23:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

In reply to the above: Do other Rizalians have already forgotten Ms. L?! The identity of Ms. L remained enigmatic as stated on the book of Professor Zaide. Though, was asked (by other historians through oral tradition of gathering some informations), Rizal admitted that he had this short-lived romantic affair with "Ms.L". As stated on Professor Zaide's book, Ms. L, as described by Rizal as: "fair with seductive eyes". And the reasons were the memories of Ms. L were already forgotten by him are as follows: (1) the sweet memory of Segunda was still in his heart and (2) his father objected to the match. (by Prudence101) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.1.46.54 (talk) 00:33, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline

I'm basing this off Fr. Arcilla's standard history textbook. Some parts are probably unnecessary and some parts lacking, but I expect that we can sort this out soon. :)

Jose Rizal

• Family
  • Mother
  • Father
  • Paciano
  • other siblings
• Childhood
  • Injustice to:
    • Mother (Teodora Alonso)
    • Paciano
    • Jose Burgos
• Education
  • Ateneo
  • UST
• Voyage to Europe (should this fall under Education?)
  • Experience with the liberal Filipinos and teachers (Jaena, Morayta...)
• France
  • Blumentritt
  • Noli
• Return to Europe
  • Problems in Calamba (ejection of family)
  • El Fili
• Hong Kong
• Manila
  • La Liga Filipina/KKK
• Dapitan
• Cuban revolution
• Cavite
• Last days and Death
• Legacy
  • Writings

Good luck and best wishes with improvement to Featured Article level :) Imacomp 19:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Rizal, originally Ricial

I would like more sources, links on the origin of the name to make corrections in the Latin version. Ricial doesn't seem to appear in any Spanish or Latin dictionary.Thank you.--Jondel 08:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Found this at rae:ricial. (De ricio). 1. adj. Se dice de la tierra en que, después de cortado el trigo en verde, vuelve a nacer o retoñar. 2. adj. Se dice de la tierra sembrada de verde para que se lo coma el ganado.

year of graduation in Madrid

What year did he graduate with a degree in medicine?--Jondel 02:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Jose Rizal statue in Heidelberg

Should this be mentioned? Doberdog 11:03, 11 April 2006 (UTC)doberdog

ITA VERO(It should)!--Jondel 01:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Masonic Sources

I've added two American masonic sources, which may be an interesting area for new information on Rizal - particularly on his Masonic influences which are not discussed at the moment in this article.

One area that you may wish to consider would be whether his Freemasonry had any influence on his perceived anti-clericalism and pro-Americanism?

JASpencer 07:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

No it did not. Imacomp 13:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Removal of information by Imacomp can be seen here.

You'll also be able to see the sources there as well.

JASpencer 13:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

JASpencer, only you would want to know. Keep wako out of Wiki. Imacomp 13:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

What's whacko the Scottish Rite Journal or the Builder Magazine? JASpencer 13:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sources

Kamusta po.

The first paragraph on this article seems iffy. I don't deny that Rizal was a poet,or an eye surgeon and certainly a polyglot, but to have a laundry list of economist, architect,........seems a little dubious. If rizal had theorized about how economics should work, that wouldn't automatically make him an economist. Likewise If he drew a plan for a house it doesn't make him an automatic architect. I think we need to qualify a few things for an article. 1. Set a criteria of what specifically constitutes an architect, or an economist. 2. Find historical evidence that rizal met those criterias.

How about if we say amateur? amateur economist, amateur architect, etc.?--Jondel 02:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Blame it on Gregorio Zaide. IMO, his book started the trend of "Rizal the Architect, the Economist, etc. etc.". I don't find this kind of trivializing in Guerrero's book (although, given the circumstances, Guerrero's book also has a different slant of its own...it was originally entered in a national competition for biography-writing on Rizal). In addition, despite what other people say about him, Ambeth Ocampo himself has misgivings about this treatment of Rizal (Ocampo makes this clear in his preface to Rizal Without the Overcoat) --- Tito Pao 20:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it is very awkward how the introductory section was edited such that other supposed "titles" of Rizal read as amateur this and amateur that. Unless somebody finds something that would rightly prove Rizal had achieved such titles, I suggest not to place them in the article at all, especially not with the "amateur" prefix. --Sandra5482 07:27, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

No need to emphasize that Rizal is an "eye surgeon" and "an intellectual" in the first paragraph since it is already described in the succeeding paragraphs, especially paragraph 3. - 7258

Courage

"Courage" is hardly NPOV. The argument could be made that while Rizal was a reformer, he was essentially a Spanish loyalist, an accidental martyr more due to his personal pride rather than any sense of nationalism. See Nick Joaquin's "A Question of Heroes." ZoneSeek 04:45, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• Well I guess that is a matter of opinion, Zone. But you can't deny it was his literary work (Noli, Fili, etc) and his MARTYRDOM that inspired the revolution led by Bonifacio which subsequently led to the Spanish colonialists washing their hands off us and handing us over to the Americans. Rizal was for reforms, which he hoped would ultimately lead to the end of colonialization. He could not just inspire an armed revolution because he knew we indios were incapable of it. He foresaw things. He was a visionary. He had much more common sense than Bonifacio and Aguinaldo who failed in their attempts. He was no accidental martyr. He went willingly to the slaughter house. Nick Joaquin was wrong. More than a century after his death, Filipinos would have realized by now whether he deserved to the national hero or not.KaElin 23:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Nick Joaquin himself was a POV writer (pro-Cavite?), as are necessarily all historians. Uthanc 04:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Japanese blood?

I probably missed out on my Rizal class, but this I never learned that Rizal had a drop of Japanese blood in his veins. Any references for this? Thanks!

• I think this was mentioned in Gregorio Zaide's biography. (I'll need to double-check this, though) --- Tito Pao 11:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Without Rizal

If it wasn;t for his literary masterpiece, The Spanish-American war would have more international involvement than the Spanish Civil War. Turthfully a Kaiser made a letter to help Spain save their colonies from America

Moved Page

I've edited the redirects so that when people type in "Rizal", they'll be directed to this page, not the province. This is because in the Philippines, when Filipinos (especially students in all levels) hear the word "Rizal", the first thing that always comes to their mind is the national hero, not the province near Manila. Also, foreigners may want to know more about Jose Rizal, so it's best to have the word "Rizal" redirect to Rizal's biography.

(Sorry if I made some mistakes along the way, this is the first time I've moved pages and edited redirects; please let me know if I made more mistakes and I'll be happy to learn from you :) --- Tito Pao 11:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted the move. Washington does not redirect to George Washington but instead to the actual state of Washington itself while there is a disambiguation notice for Washington, D.C.. It's most preferable to have the names of provinces by themselves (without the (province) suffix) as reasonable as possible. There is a redirect to José Rizal anyway on the Rizal page. Thanks. --Chris S. 18:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Noted. Thanks for the clarification :) --- Tito Pao 18:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

NPoV

_ _ I tagged the article {{POV}}, and User:KaElin saying

delete {{POV}} if there's conflicting opinion place it w/par or sentence, not the whole article

and said on my talk page in part "Which part of the article? If someone is questioning a sentence or paragraph, he/she should tag it with" {{fact}}.
_ _ Tag or not, the article as a whole is infected with PoV. The overwhelming bulk of the lead 'graph is emblematic of this: Beyond his name and vital stats it has 96 words.

In the first sentence, 29% of the 96 are devoted exclusively with poetic titles, each PoV, applied to him.

The next 8% calls him, as if it were a fact, (emphasis added)

the national hero of the Philippines.

47% is a sentence purporting as fact his "intelligence", "his passion as a patriot", and "the centrality of national identity as a social force in the project of nation-building ".

"Intelligence" is a PoV term: applied according to individual PoV to various subjective qualities, and to objective ones whose appropriateness as respective claims to constituting "real" intelligence is a matter of PoV.

"Passion" can only be inferred by various PoV standards, and the circumstances where it occurs support only (PoV) guesses at whether its objects are, for instance, "patriotism", greed, or megalomania.

What is "central" in "the project of nation-building" and in fact what a "nation" is and in what senses one can be "built" are all matters of vigorous debate, despite the author's implicit PoV that the Phillipine "nation" has the answers to those questions.

The final 16% is a presumably clearly verifiable statement by Benedict Anderson, a Marxist commentator. His New York Times Google hits are less than 1/30 of those of Richard Hofstadter (another commentator on nations that i have heard of before, and happen to have been reading about today), yet it was BA that the PoV of the article deemed to merit attention in the first 'graph.

_ _ If Phillipine nationals and/or ethnic Filipinos are hysterical, as the writer is, about JR's qualities, the statement that it is hysteria or enthusiasm or obsession is PoV, but paralleled by specific facts which should be stated at some point in the article -- facts that can be measured, probably by relative book sales and opinion polling. And the existence of the epithets will supplement those facts. But if the lead 'graph of this article were close to NPoV, it would still be improved by inserting, between the vital fact and the epithets,

... did nothing notable. Nevertheless, he is ...

I don't suggest that that would be improvement for his bio. But the emphasis of the lead graph, and the failure of the lead section to get down to specifics, are the highlights of a PoV problem infecting the article as a whole: the choices of what to say in the the lead sent and the lead 'graph reflect a PoV about what is significant, and the article is written as an expression of a PoV. There is a lot of undoubtedly valuable material in it, but it needs ruthless restatement, re-ordering, and selection in order to comply with WP:NPoV.
_ _ On reflection, i am restoring the PoV tag. The problem is article-wide; i think the use of the tag article-wide is more the rule than the exception, and even if it has shortcomings, it will be useful in bringing the attention of those qualified to fix it. Those who aren't, from inability to see at a glance that it has a global PoV problem, should defer to them, rather than flaunting that difference.
--Jerzy•t 03:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

_ _ If the Admin thinks the article is infected and hopelessly beyond repair, the whole article should be deleted. To replace sentences just to remove PoV, which text are prone to be, like labeling the effort which had veered too much into PoV, like "hysteria" which I believe is PoV, is likely to reduce it to mere statements of facts, more like number of homeruns hit, batting average lifetime, etc.

_ _ How accurately percentages were figured out by him is still beyond me, maybe he should expound on his formula more. There could be degrees of "accomplishment" so people who may have achieved something centuries back could be ranked with modern-day achievers, etc. There seems to be a lot more that should be said on this matter. Thanks. EAP
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.181.98 (talk) 21:49, 15 October 2006

_ _ Presumably "the admin" refers to me, tho i have not used any admin capability in connection with this article -- nor does it seem reasonable to anticipate my doing so. Yeah, it's an indication that i've hung around here editing for a while, and presumably learned a thing or two, but please remember that the "coat of arms" of the admins has a bucket and mop, and not even a bundle of sticks, let alone a carnivorous beast. Don't let me scare you! (Unless you and maybe a friend or two plan to ignore everyone else and resist every effort to solve problems.)

_ _ The numbers i cited were not intended to be examined closely. IIRC, MS Word reported something like 98 words total, which means 49 words is 50% and 24 or 25 is 25%; my math (done more by feel than by formal calculations) was implicitly describing the relative sizes of paragraphs, and intended to be as much impressionistic as scientific.

_ _ "Infected", IMO, but not "hopelessly beyond repair" -- and in retrospect, i see that i was playing too rough in throwing around "if ... Filipinos are hysterical", especially in speaking as a Euro-descended Yank about an East-Asian country that i used to think of as Hispanic. It is a very rare article that is so inherantly PoV as to deserve deletion, nor do i even think that this one should be reduced to an NPoV stub. There are a lot of presumably verifiable facts implicit in the article, and what is needed is not to cut out "X" but to change it to something along the general lines of "most Filipinos believe X".
--Jerzy•t 19:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

_ _ Jerzy, Rizal is the national hero of the Philippines. He was declared, confirmed, attested by a law (or Act) passed by your countrymen (if you're an American). I will get back to you on which Act it was. A province, many streets, many towns, many schools, a university and a national monument were erected and named after him. A Rizal Law was passed that made the reading of his literary work a requirement in high school and college. Rizal Day (December 31?, I've been out of the country 24 years) is celebrated as a national non-working holiday. The only other Filipino, I think, honored thus (with a national non-working holiday) is Benigno Aquino. Rizal is accepted, acknowledged, recognized by an overwhelming majority of Filipinos as the national hero. Of course, there are some who challenge this. We will try to change, esp. the first paragraph, to present a Neutral Point of View (NPOV) altho a difficult task because most writers/historians accounts are hagiographic, and, as you put it, tend to veer too much into "hysteria."

_ _ Although it is one writer (Umbriago) that dominates the article, it is in fact a joint effort of many. But you are probably right that we should include a dissenting view of Rizal being the premier hero, or question his status as such. There are a few books that hold this contention --"Rizal without the Overcoat" by Ocampo, books by Nick Joaquin and by Renato Constantino, altho I can't get hold of them.

_ _ Jerzy, you mentioned Benedict Anderson as having only 1/30th google hits compared to Hofstadter. Anderson, Maoist or not, is a recognized expert on Southeast Asian politics/culture (specifically, Indonesia) while Hofstadter, I think, do not write about Southeast Asia, if ever, and never about the little impoverished country called the Philippines. We (specifically Umbriago) have to quote at least one non-Filipino to write "hysterically" (as you put it) about Rizal. A foreigner writing about Rizal makes it more believable, right?

_ _ We will try to make editions to present a less biased POV. I will try to do some and invite all the other contributors to do so also. Thanks.
KaElin 15:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

_ _ Tho i'd not heard of Rizal before, i recall the martyred Aquino, and noting the similar rare holiday status between him and Rizal is a valuable fact for the article. (But keep in mind that "martyr" is PoV; my considering him a martyr for purposes of this talk page is not a endorsement of calling him one in the article, as opposed to saying he is called one.) Likewise, Congressional endorsement (probably, BTW, in a resolution, or in the ineffective preamble of a law, rather than as a matter of making law) of "national hero" status by a legislature (a foreign colonial one at that!), or the Pope, doesn't make heroism or martyrdom a fact: hierarchs and parliaments can only justify confering such statuses by using "hero", "martyr", and so on in special PoV senses, or by speaking only for the attention of those whose PoV includes slavish endorsement of their authority to change reality with a few words.

_ _ I do think foreign and mainstream historians have much less presumption of bias to overcome than those with ethnic ties or revolutionary PoVs, tho i wouldn't choose the wording "more believable". My citation of Hofstadter's ideas (i think the lk works permanently w/o registration) really reflected my awareness from that review of the "Intellectual Bio" on him, and IIRC his challenging some ideas of what makes the US a "nation". I'm pretty sure what makes nations remains a matter of PoV, while IMO the article presumes as a fact one account of how nationhood is established.
--Jerzy•t 19:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

jose rizal

is it rizal guilty in the revolution why he was a hero?

I betcha the British will punish George Washington if they've won. ;) --Howard the Duck 13:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

to Will Beback re: LaRouche

What is the logic behind the removal of the link to Schiller Institute ? Yes, it was founded by LaRouche's wife, but so what? The link to Rizal is Schiller's influence on his writings, not LaRouche's. The LaRouche controversy stems from his perceived anti-semitism, however, his bigotry is not found in either Schiller's or Rizal's writings. You deleted the link, yet not the link in the Wiki article Schiller Institute. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be unbiased and non-partisan. LaRouche may be anti-semitic, Marxist, ultra-conservative, etc., but the article linked to Rizal is none of those things. Let the reader decide. KaElin 23:57, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I left a note on your talk page too. The Schiller Institute is not a reliable source for anything except its own views, per decision of the ArbCom. One of the SI's biases is promoting the importance and influence of Schiller, a bias which is apparent in the cited article. Due to the efforts of yourself and other editors, there are many better sources for this fine article. -Will Beback · † · 00:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, am not aware of the ArbCom decision. Too bad that a fine writer like John Morris is associated with the cultist LaRouche, but it was Morris' article that made mention of Rizal's legacy on Gandhi, and Tagore.KaElin 03:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Is Jose Rizal for Real?

I would like to discuss the possibility that Jose Rizal was just a pawn, setup by his chinese peers. Consider at that time that revolutionaryos have already cleared the countryside of spaniards and in my understanding the next group of aliens that would be booted out from the philippines are the chinese. The chinese at that time controls trading, manufacturing and they are into land grabbing in the countryside. I would like also to point out that it is common knowledge that the chinese in the philippines were changing their surnames into spanish or filipino sounding names to hide their race, e.g. Jose Rizal. In my honest opinion, Jose Rizal should not be a hero. Rizal should be the hero of the chinese.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lbonifacio (talk • contribs) 08:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

There is no possibilty of such. Rizal is also called the greatest the Malayn race ver produced. He signed as dimas alng, indio, and FILIPINO.

Rizal the first FILIPINO

Please read the whole article. It was Rizal's great-great-great grandfather Domingo Lamco who changed his surname to Mercado, not Rizal. Jose Rizal eventually changed his name to Rizal (from Mercado) because of his brother's connection to Gomburza. People put too much emphasis on Rizal's chinese ancestry. Rizal has a lot more indigenuous Malay blood than Chinese. Like the typical Filipino, his ancestry is very diverse--malay, chinese, spanish, japanese, even indigenous negrito. There is no such thing as a "pure Filipino."

GA review

See: Misplaced Pages:What is a good article?

This article is well written. There are minor grammar errors (I just corrected a few) and disfluencies indicative of a non-native speaker, but the phrasing structure is clear and well organized and so corrections are straightforward. The logical structure and grouping of the article is good. Both hierarchical sections and links to main articles on subtopics are used.

The article provides adequate references and uses inline citations. The sources are reliable and the article contains no original research.

All major aspects of the topic are addressed, or briefly summarized and a more comprehensive article linked to. There is no non-notable trivia.

The article follows NPOV, but could benefit from the removal of some of the laudatory adjectives. Since all of the claims seem to be appropriately sourced, this is more of a style concern than a factual one.

The edit history shows that the article is relatively stable, with some vandal activity but no apparent ongoing edit wars. On a month-to-month basis the article has undergone few recent structural changes.

There are several useful images, all of which are tagged and have descriptive captions.

While the article is somewhat long, occasionally too praising, and suffers from minor grammar issues and occasional awkward phrasing, all of these issues could be fixed by a quick trimming down of some of the superlatives and laudatory phrases and sentences. There is far more good in this article than remaining problems, and I think it should be granted "Good Article" status.

--Sapphic 17:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Length: For articles longer than about 25 kB, rigorous reviewing of the Misplaced Pages peer review and featured article candidates guidelines is often more appropriate than the process here.

Thanks for the review. Much appreciated. Berserkerz Crit 19:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Rizal on the Philippine Peso Image...

This must be revised to the latest coin being used in the RP.

No problem. However, I think it's a better idea to not delete the 1970s coin image. This will show that Rizal, then and now, has always been on the 1-peso coin. --- Tito Pao 03:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

"further reading" section needs attention

There was a section full of external links and information about books. That section was wrongly called "references". This is wrong because Misplaced Pages uses that title for the section that contains the article's <ref>'s. I fixed that by changing the name to "further reading", but the content of that section still needs attention. What goes in that list? It looks like some should be moved to "external links", some should be added as <ref>s within the article text, and some should be deleted. ...but I can't do this. Gronky 13:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Age 11 photograph

I've edited the caption to indicate that this was an image of Rizal as a student at the Ateneo Municpal. The image source says it was taken when he was 11 years old, and this source says that he first enrolled at the Ateneo Municipal when he was 11 years old. Rmcsamson 17:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

R.A. 1425 a.k.a. Rizal Law

an act to include in the curricula of all public and private schools, colleges and universities on the life, works and writings of jose rizal, particularly his novels noli me tangere and el filibusterismo, authorizing the printing and distribution thereof, and for other purposes.

Can you put a section for this?--210.213.175.96 (talk) 10:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

____________________________________________________________________________________________ Yeah, I would like also to know the real purpose or relating the history of Rizal and his contributions to all courses in the universities. For some, it's just an adiitional unit that will be paid. (No offense po.)

spelling of Rizal's name

Hello. Would like to ask for any sources/references regarding the spelling of Rizal's name. In the Philippines, his name is usually written "Jose" although according to current Spanish rules of spelling, it should be "José", with an accent on the "e". I have encountered the same situation with names of other historic figures (like José Ma. Guerrero). Did these people (Rizal, Guerrero, etc.) actually write and sign their names with accent marks? Thanks. 124.107.1.42 (talk) 11:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)dnong

Actually this has been discussed before and the consensus was to have the accented "e" for all Filipinos during the Spanish era. --Howard the Duck 13:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh sorry. I wonder if the discussions are archived somewhere. Could you tell me how to access the archives of past discussions? Thank you. 125.5.36.66 (talk) 02:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)dnong

See Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (Philippine-related articles). --Howard the Duck 13:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

How Jose got the name "Rizal"

http://www.nhi.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=2 http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/4982/zayde1.html

It is stated in the article that Jose adopted the name "Rizal" when he enrolled as a student at the Ateneo Municipal de Manila. However, the links above states that

In the year 1849 (before Jose Rizal's birth in 1861), as mentioned above, Governor Narciso Claveria issued a decree directing all Filipino families to choose new surnames from a list of Spanish family names (Catálogo alfabético de apellidos)....Jose's father, Francisco (Mercado)...chose the surname Rizal, which was not in the list recommended by the Spanish authorities....the children of Lorenzo Alberto Alonso adopted the name "Realonda". Hence Teodora Alonso (Rizal's mother) became Teodora Alonso Realonda, or simply Teodora Realonda.

The website http://www.joserizal.ph/bg01.html (already referenced in this article) also calls Jose's father as or Francisco Rizal Mercado. All of Jose's siblings are also named "Rizal", implying that his whole family took on the name, not just Jose. (Apparently, after Franciso's changing of his name to Rizal caused some confusion in his business affairs. He compromised and called himself Francisco Rizal Mercado) If there are no objections, I will change the information accordingly.

(Note: Spanish naming customs dictate that names usually follow the format "(Given name) (Father's surname) y (Mother's maiden name)". So if this is followed, and it is agreed that the surnames of Jose's parents were "Rizal Mercado" and "Alonso Realonda" respectively, then that would mean that Jose's name would be "José Protacio Rizal Mercado y Alonso Realonda...or "José Protacio Rizal" for short "). His name is sometimes given only as "José Protacio Rizal y Alonso" with two apparent reasons: 1) Again, "Rizal" was the name his father had chosen (and preferred) for his family, and 2) Even if the Alonso family became the "Alonso Realonda" (or just "Realonda") family, Rizal's mother preferred to call herself "Teodora Alonso"

http://geocities.com/sinupan/AlonzoT.htm - "Rizal wrote bititrly: "From Manila they sent her to Sta. Cruz, Laguna Province, through mountains, from town to town, because she did not call herself Realonda de Rizal but simply Teodora Alonso!" 125.60.243.115 (talk) 14:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Hi guys, seems that I have noticed some vandalism in this particular article... kindly see the words SM north edsa and Trinoma... It is really a pity to those who do these things, they really dont have the manners... kindly undo your edits.... god bless Charlie alpha (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Protacio or Protasio?

Can anyone verify the spelling of Rizal's name? Is it "Protacio" or "Protasio"? (Note: Britannica online, and a book by Gregorio F. Zaide list it as "Protasio") 122.53.107.13 (talk) 12:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Under the section Persecution there is a statement of Protacio's torture on his brother's complicity in the revolution. Can anyone cite the source of this paragraph?

I can verify the spelling of Rizal's second name. It is Protasio, after San Protasio (Saint Protase), Bishop of Milan whose feast day is June 19 in the Roman Catholic Calendar. There is no such saint as San Protacio, only San Protasio (See Catholic Encyclopedia, List of Saints, etc.). Furthermore, I am a Filipino historian, and I've seen Rizal's extant diplomas from Ateneo de Manila with his name clearly spelled, "José Protasio Rizal". Fadulj (talk) 10:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Travelling alone

Twice in the article it's mentioned that he travelled alone to Spain to study medicine. By "alone" what I understand is that he travelled without known companions. What is the significance of travelling alone? People were not known to travel alone during the time? Jay (talk) 05:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Is Rizal a really a linguist or just a polyglot?

A lot of people consider Rizal as a linguist which I think is not correct. He did speak 22 languages (or more) but that does not make him a linguist. Linguists are those who study and specializes in language while polyglots are those who can speak many languages, which fits Rizal. However, when I was doing a research in one of my language subjects I found out that Rizal had a study on Tagalog. According to the language book, which I could no longer remember the remember, that i have read Rizal attempted to parse a Tagalog sentence. Unfortunately, i could not corroborate this claim yet as i still need to find more references on this one. Hope someone could help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Superficialistics (talk • contribs) 20:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

retraction - one sided

Not neutral. Please add other contrasting argument and data. If not this cannot be called controversy!! Pinoyrk (talk) 08:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I added references to the other side of the controversy. Since you were the one questioning the issue of neutrality, you should judge if these were sufficient. You could also make additional research and edits on the issue. If satisfactory, the POV template must be removed.KaElin (talk) 18:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Improved but not quite. Statements like "Many continue to believe", "claims", "insisted" are not neutral. Suggest summarize reference that contains this: http://joserizal.info/Reflections/retraction.htm . Looks very neutral and merely summarizes controversy. Pinoyrk (talk) 04:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The number of witnesses mentioned here should also be included: http://www.bukal.com/pdfs/rizals%20conversion-pp.rtf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinoyrk (talk • contribs) 04:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I've done revisions suggested here. Marax (talk) 03:28, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I've added another balancing perspective in the conclusion of this section. This is also suggested by Dr. Eugene A. Hessel: that there are various attitudes towards the retraction. Marax (talk)

Vandalism (Semi-Protection Status ?)

There are instances of vandalism of late by anonymous users which are difficult to revert because of legitimate edits made in between. I myself did some edits (referenced Rizal in popular culture) without realizing previous vandalism has been made. If anyone can help with this it would be greatly appreciated. I also suggest that anonymous users be prevented in making edits.KaElin (talk) 12:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I nominated the article for a semi-protection from unsigned IP users and removed some of the vandals... hopefully, the protection will at least limits vandalism in the article--peads (talk) 14:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

OK now the article is now semi-protected for two weeks.. --peads (talk) 16:44, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Good job, Donmar. Thanks! KaElin (talk) 01:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

No Problem!--peads (talk) 06:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

External links- Filipiniana.net

I added a non-commercial website, Filipiniana.net, that seems to have a more exhaustive (and complete?) bibliography of JPR than any other, including the Jose Rizal website (The latter is less annotative and poorly crafted, IMO)KaElin (talk) 19:54, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Execution

Someone deleted my addition that "Consummatum est", which Rizal said before he died, were among Christ's last words from the cross, as cited in "The Gospel of John" (John 19:30) in the Bible. To add that is not editorializing, but providing encyclopedic context. Rizal was raised Catholic at a time when Latin was the language of worship and the Bible, and most Westerners were more familiar with Biblical language than today. The Seven Last Words of Christ were often used as meditations during Lent, Holy Week and Good Friday. Rizal clearly chose these words deliberately, as he said them in Latin. This is significant as a means of understanding him. It did not mean he accepted Catholic dogma, but had a symbolic sense of his life and work. --Parkwells (talk) 01:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Note that Rizal drew from the Gospels for the Latin title of his first novel Noli me Tangere ("Touch me not", or "Don't cling to me".) This was what Christ was reported to have said to Mary Magdalene when she recognized him after the Resurrection.--Parkwells (talk) 14:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Misplaced Pages takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl 02:01, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Did Rizal die a catholic?

Actually yes i really care but what made me do this discussion is that i want to be clarified on the matter claiming that Rizal indeed died a catholic, if so why did the catholic priest had to snatch away in absolute secrecy the body of Rizal after execution to be burried at the Paco cemetery? (refer to case unclosed program aired November 26, 2009 hosted by Mr. Arnold Clavio)

As per the claim of Ms. Barbara Gonzales, the grand daughter of Rizal, that Rizal really was a martyr and a hero because he really represented the filipino people in good form and substance but what about the real purpose of Rizal of making the Philippines a province of Spain and to be represented in the Spanish cortez? At this juncture, Rizal had emphasize being a representative of the Illustrados and not of the marginalized filipino people during that time.

More on Rizal's being a catholic devotee, was there any record of him being accepted back into the catholic fold since it was for a fact that he was excommunicated by the catholic church and being as such it means not receiving the holy communion nor to be allowed to hear the mass and depriving him of the right to be burried in a catholic cemetery. --Leo S. Dagaerag (talk) 04:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Leitmeritz

In the Noli_Me_Tangere_(novel)#Reaction_and_legacy, there is a reference to Leitmeritz -- is this referring to Ferdinand Blumentritt? --达伟 (talk) 21:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

National hero?

The text: He is considered the Philippines' national hero is unsourced and so a tag has been placed. Please see WP:IRS. Please do not remove this tag unless a reliable source is cited. Qwerta369 (talk) 10:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

The Triumph of Science over Death

I have removed the following: "He made the Triumph of science over death and give the sculpture to Ferdinand Blumentritt. He made this sculpture for the sake of Filipino women. He gave this sculpture to Blumentritt to show how Filipino women were abused by the Spaniards." which is comically false. I have created a new section and placed both the picture of the sculpture and its real symbolism there. I have also linked to its original page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RafaelMinuesa (talk • contribs) 05:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Rajah of Tondo as an ancestor of Rizal

I have removed that false statement. Apart from the fact that the author Austin Craig is not a recognized expert on the matter, he NEVER mentions Lakandula, Rajah of Tondo as an ancestor.

I have checked his book "Lineage, Life, and Labors of Jose Rizal, Philippine Patriot" at project Gutenberg, and nowhere in the book does he say such a thing. See the full text of his book here: http://www.fullbooks.com/Lineage-Life-and-Labors-of-Jose-Rizal1.html

However, if you have references that prove that he actually mentioned Lakandula as an ancestor, please include them in the article. Otherwise, please stop changing the article. Thank you --RafaelMinuesa (talk) 02:52, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The reference of the actual descent of Jose Rizal in Austin Craig's is being questioned on grounds that it does not appear in a reprinted version as published in the Guttenberg freebies. As a descendant of Lakan Dula, of which all of the Filipinos bearing the surname Lacandola can lay claim to, I was interested in this. I had seen an original volume in hard cover published by the Philippine Education Co. so a reader of a reprinted version cannot claim absolute certainty on the issue. If such a reader who has not seen the original and calumniates Austin Craig as 'not a recognized expert on the matter, then who is? Certainly not this individual. Umbriago. 12 Jan. 2011. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.225.157 (talk) 19:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Again, if you have references that prove that Austin Craig actually mentioned Lakandula as an ancestor, please share them.

The problem here is that NONE of the recognized experts on the subject, EVER mentions Lakandula as an ancestor of Rizal.

--RafaelMinuesa (talk) 07:16, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Surname Chua

Page Chinese Filipino says "surnamed Chua before his late Hispanic surname." Is this correct? Hongthay (talk) 14:55, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have time to dig too deep on this right now, but you might look at the entries which come up as Previewable using this google books search. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

More citations

At its present state, this article won't be good enough for WP:OTD, and since Rizal's 150th birth anniversary is coming, it'll be nice to spruce this up with references so that this can be good enough to be displayed at the Main Page. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Myths about Rizal and the University of Santo Tomas

Here are some excerpts from the study of former UST archivist Fr. Fidel Villarroel

Myth: Rizal complained about his grades in UST and was discriminated and treated shabbily by the Dominicans.

Fact: 1. Rizal entered the UST in 1877, enrolling in the Pre-Law Course, which was made up of philosophical subjects. The course was commonly called metaphysics. He passed the course brilliantly with the highest grades in spite of his initial indifference to philosophy and his youthful distractions through the year. Then he opted for the career of medicine. And in 1878-1879 he took simultaneously the Pre-Medical Course and the First Year of Medicine; this was against the rules, but Rizal was favored with a dispensation. The Pre-Medicine Course was also called Ampliacion, because the student, having taken already Physics, Chemistry and Natural History in the high school, now took an advanced course on the same subjects (Rizal did not take in Santo Tomas the “class of physics” described in El Fili but rather in Ateneo).

In his courses of medicine, Rizal was a good student, above-average, though not excellent; but none of his classmates were excellent either. Summing up, in the 21 subjects taken in UST, Rizal obtained one aprobado (passing grade), eight bueno (good), six notable (very good) and six sobresaliente (excellent). Majority of students in Rizal’s time, or in any time, would have been satisfied with the above grades. It is possible that Rizal was not, but it is a fact that he never complained about his grades, there is not a single word in his works showing displeasure at the unfairness of UST.

Yet many of his biographers are angry, unreasonably angry (including anti-ust pexers?) at the treatment given to the national hero by his alma mater. How could Rizal, after a perfect record of “Excellent” in the high school (Ateneo) now receive such “low” grades at UST? The critics had to look for an explanation, and since they did not find fault in Rizal, then they had to blame the Dominicans and UST. And from Retana to Austin Craig, from Frank Lauback to Austin Coates and to quite a long line of Filipino biographers (with some exceptions), we only hear the same repeated lamentation that every school child must now learn in the textbooks: that Rizal was “below his usual standards”, and for the extremely serious charge that the “Dominican professors were hostile to him” and “the Filipino students were racially discriminated” (Zaide), and that there was “excessive harping on the alleged intellectual superiority of the Spanish (because he was white) to the Filipino, a brown man, and Indio (JM Hernandez), and so on. An objective historian must squarely face and honestly answer these grave statements, which sound like accusations.

Was Rizal “far below his usual standards”? What standards, in the first place? If by usual standards we mean the grades of his Ateneo high school studies, the comparison is unfair. Nobody places elementary or high school standards against college or University standards. They belong to different levels. At Ateneo municipal, Rizal was excellent, though not the only excellent student. At the UST, none of his classmates ever got near to keeping a straight record of Excellent. And this was because Medicine was a different kind of stuff altogether.

Therefore, if we are to arrive at a just appreciation of Rizal’s performance at the UST, we should compare, not his grades in the high school with those in the university, but Rizal’s grades in Medicine against those of his classmates. In the first year of medicine, Rizal’s class was made up of 24 students, but due to academic failures, seventeen of them were left by the roadside before they reached the fourth year, when only seven took the final examinations. And in this fourth (and for Rizal last) year, he landed in second place behind Cornelio Mapa. A persecuted Rizal would have probably ended by the same roadside as the seventeen “debarred” classmates, or would have never boasted of being second when he left for Spain in 1882.

2. It can hardy be said that Rizal was discriminated and treated shabbily by the Dominicans since he was granted the rare privilege of studying simultaneously in the Preparatory Course of Medicine and the First Year of Medicine.

Records likewise show that six Spaniards were enrolled with Rizal in the first year of Medicine, of whom three were Peninsular and three Philippine-born. If the criticism of some biographers were true, these six students would have been favored by the friars. Yet at the end of the fourth year there remained only one Philippine-born Spaniard, Jose Resurreccion y Padilla, who managed to get only a poor passing grade (aprobado), last among successful students, and who in the following year received a crushing suspenso. It would be unkind to rejoice over failures, whether of Spanish or of Filipinos, but the biographers of Rizal will not be convincing unless they prove with valid documents the existence of “racial discrimination” in UST in the 19th century when it came to academic grades.

3. Rizal’s inclinations and abilities must be taken into account. While he was undoubtedly inclined to, and remarkably fitted for, the arts and letters, he was not much attracted to Medicine. “Perhaps – says Leon Ma. Guerrero – Medicine was not his real vocation”. Medicine was a convenient career taken up in consideration of the poor health of Rizal’s mother, whom he wanted to help, and eventually helped as a physician.

4. When Rizal transferred to Spain and continued his studies at the University of Madrid, he showed there similar characteristics. He was sobresaliente in the humanistic studies (literature, languages, history), while in Medicine he fared worse than at the University of Santo Tomas. Ye no historian or biographer has ever complained about his poor performance in Madrid or hinted that Rizal was discriminated against in that Central University.

5. Rizal had Dominican friends in the persons of Fr. Evaristo Arias and Fr. Joaquin Fonseca. It was while studying at UST that Rizal obtained public recognition as a poet. It was the Dominican, Fr. Arias who helped him cultivate his craft in poetry. During his Thomasian years, Rizal composed the best poems of his pre-European period, one of them being A la Juventud Filipina, winner of the first prize in the contest organized by the Liceo Artistico-Literario in 1879. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.200.249.51 (talk) 03:16, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

--jarcills (talk) 11:20, 06 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.200.249.51 (talk)

Incorrect photo of Rizal memorial in Paco Park

The Photo of Rizal's tomb in Paco Park is incorrect. The picture shown is actually the memorial of the three martyred priests, Gomez, Burgos, and Zamora. I replaced the incorrect photo with a photo taken by me of the Rizal Memorial in Paco Park. Matikas 0805 (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Sexual Preference Controversy

I'm moving the following here for discussion. It was inserted in the article as a subsection of Aftermath with the heading Sexual Preference Controversy.

Some Rizal experts say that Rizal was probably gay, even if he is considered as a womanizer by many drawings of male reproductive was seen in his notes when he's a doctor of the eye. There was also his dream about Ferdinand Blumentritt being in his house in Calamba and he was eating . And then Rizal woke up, and when he woke up he was shaking and he was perspiring. He said he was wet. Psychiatrists who read it said it was a “wet dream."

This is given undue weight as presented here, I think.

The cited source is interesting, and some material supported by that source it may merit inclusion in the article. The material quoted above, though, IMHO, goes too far in lifting one small snippet out of context in support of inserted assertions given undue weight. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:47, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Tallest Rizal Monument.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Tallest Rizal Monument.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests December 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Misplaced Pages (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

• Delisted good articles
• Old requests for peer review
• B-Class biography articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• Unassessed Poetry articles
• Unknown-importance Poetry articles
• WikiProject Poetry articles
• B-Class Philippine-related articles
• Top-importance Philippine-related articles
• WikiProject Philippines articles
• Selected anniversaries (December 2004)
• Selected anniversaries (December 2005)
• Selected anniversaries (December 2006)
• Selected anniversaries (December 2007)
• Selected anniversaries (December 2008)
• Selected anniversaries (December 2009)
• Selected anniversaries (December 2010)