Talk:Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 07:42, 26 April 2012 editWikiEditor2004 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users51,646 edits →Requested move ← Previous edit		Revision as of 12:28, 26 April 2012 edit undoPeacemaker67 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators95,395 edits →Requested move: proposal of different moveNext edit →
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	] → {{no redirect\|1=Belgium and Northern France}} – I request renaming this page to title '''Belgium and Northern France''' since this article speaks about territorial unit not about German administrators. Name ''Belgium and Northern France'' is a common name for the territory used in most sources: , while name "Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France" was a name of German administration that governed territory. It is strange and unusual to name territory by the name of its administration. ] 07:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)		] → {{no redirect\|1=Belgium and Northern France}} – I request renaming this page to title '''Belgium and Northern France''' since this article speaks about territorial unit not about German administrators. Name ''Belgium and Northern France'' is a common name for the territory used in most sources: , while name "Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France" was a name of German administration that governed territory. It is strange and unusual to name territory by the name of its administration. ] 07:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
			: '''Propose different move.''' It should be moved IF it is about a territory, but I don't agree with the suggested title. If the article is supposed to be about an occupied territory (which this was), it should not be named 'Military Administration...', as that would naturally mean the article was about a military administration. However, it appears from a quick search of German sources that its name was 'the Occupied Territories of Belgium and northern France' (den besetzten Gebiete von Belgien und Nordfrankreich) that were under the supreme control of the German 'Military Commander in Belgium and northern France' (Militärbefehlshabers in Belgien und Nordfrankreich). This is an almost identical situation to that in the case of ], and it appears User:PANONIAN is attempting to change the title of this article to strengthen his case for a change to the title of the Serbia (Territory of the German Military Commander) article to 'Serbia (1941-1944)'. Given he had shown no interest in this article prior to this requested move, I consider my responsibility to ] is reduced on this occasion, and that my observations are a reasonable extrapolation from his actions elsewhere. Instead, I propose it be changed to 'Occupied Territories of Belgium and northern France (1940-1944)', which reflects the nature of the territories and is sufficiently disambiguated. ] (]) 12:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 12:28, 26 April 2012

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The Vichy Regime had legal authority over all France, despite Northern France being occupied. Kitkatcrazy (talk) 11:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This article is totally un-sourced, and I question some of its content. It contains rhetorical questions and bias (yes, I know its bias for the "good guys" in WWII, but its still not up to standards of what we should expect here. A total rewrite is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blazerbryant (talk • contribs) 00:01, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

This article probably shouldn't exist

I have reverted the article back to the "two lines of text" because that's all it really needs. The title of the article, if it should exist at all (because I can't find the phrase on Google except in reference to the wikipedia article itself), is a narrow reference to the pseudo-legal government entity of non-Vichy France. Most historians, I think, would simply call this the "German occupation of France during World War II", of which there is already a good article. The rest of the text, which I have removed, was added as a large chunk all at once, and for all I know, was an essay written by someone and copied to wikipedia en-masse. Blazerbryant (talk) 02:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

After discovering that the term "Military Administration in Belgium and northern France" is already used in the info-box on German occupation of France during World War II, which is a much better article that more succinctly covers all the information in the "essay" which existed here before, I have created a simple redirect. If anyone wants to write an article, up to wikipedia standards, with full citations, on the "legal authority" of the government in occupied France, feel free. But what was here before was just a bad article. Blazerbryant (talk) 02:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Once again, this article needs to be re-written, not purged. Both you (as well as this article itself, it seems) are confused about what this name is actually referring to. This is supposed to cover the German military administration that operated out of Brussels, and which was known as the Militärverwaltung in Belgien und Nordfrankreich ("Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France"). It was referred to as such because in addition to Belgium its territory also included the two French departments of Nord and Pas-de-Calais (see the adjoined map). The German occupation regime in France that operated out of Paris was an entirely different entity.--Morgan Hauser (talk) 23:46, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

This misunderstanding just seems to crop up again and again. I'm putting up a notice at the top of the article page.--Morgan Hauser (talk) 03:56, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I am not a war-historian, but it was obvious that the article that existed for this page before was, as I described above, totally inappropriate for Misplaced Pages, and as you said, confused about what it was referring to. I'm fine with the current status. Blazerbryant (talk) 03:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

PANONIAN's move and removal of content

User:PANONIAN has moved this article without an WP:RM, a discussion, or even a talkpage post. The infobox has also been stripped of insignia. To top it off, the move was almost done for the purpose of assisting User:PANONIAN in the perpetual dispute he created on the article about the Serbian counterpart of this territory. I've reverted these edits, and they should not be restored without consensus. -- Director (talk) 11:41, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Stop with false personal accusations, please. PANONIAN 07:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France be renamed and moved to Belgium and Northern France.

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Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France → Belgium and Northern France – I request renaming this page to title Belgium and Northern France since this article speaks about territorial unit not about German administrators. Name Belgium and Northern France is a common name for the territory used in most sources: , while name "Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France" was a name of German administration that governed territory. It is strange and unusual to name territory by the name of its administration. PANONIAN 07:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Propose different move. It should be moved IF it is about a territory, but I don't agree with the suggested title. If the article is supposed to be about an occupied territory (which this was), it should not be named 'Military Administration...', as that would naturally mean the article was about a military administration. However, it appears from a quick search of German sources that its name was 'the Occupied Territories of Belgium and northern France' (den besetzten Gebiete von Belgien und Nordfrankreich) that were under the supreme control of the German 'Military Commander in Belgium and northern France' (Militärbefehlshabers in Belgien und Nordfrankreich). This is an almost identical situation to that in the case of Serbia (Territory of the German Military Commander), and it appears User:PANONIAN is attempting to change the title of this article to strengthen his case for a change to the title of the Serbia (Territory of the German Military Commander) article to 'Serbia (1941-1944)'. Given he had shown no interest in this article prior to this requested move, I consider my responsibility to WP:AGF is reduced on this occasion, and that my observations are a reasonable extrapolation from his actions elsewhere. Instead, I propose it be changed to 'Occupied Territories of Belgium and northern France (1940-1944)', which reflects the nature of the territories and is sufficiently disambiguated. Peacemaker67 (talk) 12:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Categories:

Revision as of 07:42, 26 April 2012 editWikiEditor2004 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users51,646 edits →Requested move ← Previous edit		Revision as of 12:28, 26 April 2012 edit undoPeacemaker67 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators95,395 edits →Requested move: proposal of different moveNext edit →
Line 29:		Line 29:

	] → {{no redirect\|1=Belgium and Northern France}} – I request renaming this page to title '''Belgium and Northern France''' since this article speaks about territorial unit not about German administrators. Name ''Belgium and Northern France'' is a common name for the territory used in most sources: , while name "Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France" was a name of German administration that governed territory. It is strange and unusual to name territory by the name of its administration. ] 07:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)		] → {{no redirect\|1=Belgium and Northern France}} – I request renaming this page to title '''Belgium and Northern France''' since this article speaks about territorial unit not about German administrators. Name ''Belgium and Northern France'' is a common name for the territory used in most sources: , while name "Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France" was a name of German administration that governed territory. It is strange and unusual to name territory by the name of its administration. ] 07:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
			: '''Propose different move.''' It should be moved IF it is about a territory, but I don't agree with the suggested title. If the article is supposed to be about an occupied territory (which this was), it should not be named 'Military Administration...', as that would naturally mean the article was about a military administration. However, it appears from a quick search of German sources that its name was 'the Occupied Territories of Belgium and northern France' (den besetzten Gebiete von Belgien und Nordfrankreich) that were under the supreme control of the German 'Military Commander in Belgium and northern France' (Militärbefehlshabers in Belgien und Nordfrankreich). This is an almost identical situation to that in the case of ], and it appears User:PANONIAN is attempting to change the title of this article to strengthen his case for a change to the title of the Serbia (Territory of the German Military Commander) article to 'Serbia (1941-1944)'. Given he had shown no interest in this article prior to this requested move, I consider my responsibility to ] is reduced on this occasion, and that my observations are a reasonable extrapolation from his actions elsewhere. Instead, I propose it be changed to 'Occupied Territories of Belgium and northern France (1940-1944)', which reflects the nature of the territories and is sufficiently disambiguated. ] (]) 12:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)