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Welcome to my talk page. I will generally respond to your messages here for the purpose of linking threads, but will respond on your talk page if you prefer.

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RfC

Hey, I filed a Request for Comment on the He / Luo issue. It's probably way too long, but I don't want uninformed editors offering casual input without considering who the sources are and what they actually say. I hope that I have adequately represented the objections to inclusion as well. This seemed like the only fair (ie. random) way to solicit the opinions of fully uninvolved editors.Homunculus (duihua) 16:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Bo Xilai

Apparently someone doesn't like the linking. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Please review my article Quadrilateral Security Dialogue?

Hi Colipon, I'm trying to find somebody working on Wikiproject China (like you) who would be willing to re-rate my article Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. You can make comments on this review page. Any help would be much appreciated! best, -Darouet (talk) 00:26, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary! Will work along the lines you've suggested. All best, -Darouet (talk) 21:12, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Just began looking at it. Will be happy to contribute more! Thanks for the suggestion (and for your help with QSD). -Darouet (talk) 13:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Mali edits

Hi there Colipon. Looking at the fast approaching edits on Mali-related articles, I noticed this edit by you. Could you explain to me precisely what you meant by using "regime" with caution, why we have to do this and where it states that this is so. There is a reason I ask and I'll explain it to you after your reply. Thanks. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 18:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I replied on that talk page. Thanks for pointing this out. It is quite a relevant discussion. Colipon+(Talk) 02:02, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

This is a mistake, right?

The Bo Xilai page says that Bo failed to get elected to the Central Committee in 2003. That has to be a mistake, right?

On another note, I was just reviewing this edit . I had started preparing something similar offline. My thought is to break out distinct sections on his tenure as mayor of Dalian, followed by a section on the 15th Party Congress (with would include content similar to what you wrote), then governor of Liaoning, followed by 16th party congress, and so on. Any thoughts? Homunculus (duihua) 19:50, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

That is a good catch. He definitely got elected to the CC in 2003 - so it would seem his 'failed election' actually took place sometime in 1997-8... Generally as a mayor of a large city like Dalian one would be on the CC ex officio. Bo's omission from the CC is extremely significant. I believe what actually happened was that upon his installation as Mayor (or governor), he was to be 'alternated' into the CC, i.e, as an 'additional' member. These alternates need to go through an election process among existing CC members, and I believe that is where he failed the vote. I wish sources were a little clearer on this. Colipon+(Talk) 21:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

His failed nomination in 1997 was a pretty big deal; the family ran a national publicity campaign touting his achievement, and he wasn't even chosen as part of the Liaoning delegation. Maybe tomorrow I'll have finished pulling something together on it. As to 2003, I was also referring to the year. Don't these selections take place during the party congress (in this case, the 16th congress held in 2002)? Homunculus (duihua) 22:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, let me know if you find anything. WRT the idea of separating out the Congresses as their own sections, I'm not sure if I like this idea. Because aside from the political jockeying there's little else that can act as standalone content for those sections. I would be much more comfortable trying to integrate those into their adjacent sections. Colipon+(Talk) 01:28, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at what I've done. I turned "Work in Liaoning" into three sections: Mayor of Dalian, 15th Party Congress, and Governor of Liaoning. The section on the 15th Party Congress a bit long. If you think it's overkill, you're welcome to rein it in. I'm inclined to think of these things as the single-party system equivalent of an election campaign, and to end, I think they're notable enough. I am open to the possibility that I'm wrong. Regarding the 16th party congress, I haven't put anything on the page yet, but there might be some notable stuff there as well; Bo's name was considered alongside Li and Xi's to lead the fifth generation of leaders. Granted, he was never a very serious contender, but was probably third in line...Homunculus (duihua) 14:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's quite good. And very interesting. Li Cheng is one of my favourite China analysts. He has the background and isn't so clouded with his own perceptions of how the system 'should' be - unlike Willy Lam. Bruce Gilley is another expert on this topic. Maybe see if he has anything interesting on the subject (although some of his analysis is regrettably inaccurate). For the 17th congress, I think there was some serious jockeying for Bo to go to Chongqing. He was initially very reluctant and apparently protested to the Org. department, saying that it was a demotion and an insult. It took him 15 days from the close of the congress to his first day on the job as party secretary in Chongqing. Perhaps that's when he was devising his proto-"Chongqing model". It'd be great if we could find some background on the 16th. Colipon+(Talk) 15:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Funny, about Cheng Li. I've found him, like nearly all the top DC China scholars (Shambaugh, Lampton, Bader, Pei, etc.), to be extremely politic; their organizations and careers rely on maintaining optimal access to the Chinese leadership. I don't think that means he lacks aspirations for political reform, though. Anyways, Gilley and Andy Nathan have written a bit on Bo in the 16th party congress. I'll try to find more.Homunculus (duihua) 15:53, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

In the spirit of candor and cooperation

Colipon, I know I haven't stated it clearly yet, but I do hope that we can work together now and in the future. There are not many editors on this encyclopedia who are knowledgeable and active on topics related to Chinese politics, and I prefer to be on cooperative (if not friendly) terms with those who are. So, in the spirit of cooperation, I am going to be candid, and I hope that you will reciprocate.

I don't appreciate the tone you use to describe my editing when you disagree with it (eg. "alarming," "concerning," etc. There was also your recent comment, where you—perhaps unwittingly—implied that I am not a "rational" editor.) If I were slightly more thin-skinned or conflict averse, I might interpret these repeated insinuations as a form of intimidation. I hold myself to high standards, and while I am by no means above reproach, I make every attempt to be judicious in my judgement, scrupulous in adhering to policies, and welcoming of dissenting views and opinions. If you have a problem with something I have written, you can plainly describe the content issues as you see them, and I will seek to address it. If you have a question about me or my position on a topic, I would appreciate if you ask me directly, rather than making indirect insinuations about my motivations. For professional reasons I need to guard my privacy, so I don't disclose more than I wish, but I do not lie. I hope that's reasonable.

I also want to discuss with you the He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan issue. I'm interested in talking with you here because, honestly, I feel I can speak more freely. Not about Misplaced Pages policies and such, but just about our views on the subject. This is an issue you've been battling for a long time, and it seems like an inordinate amount of effort for such a small point. Could you explain why you see this as so important? If this conversation is agreeable to you, I will share my thoughts in turn. (what I'm really asking, I guess, is whether you truly believe that He Zuoxiu was acting in a vacuum, writing and publishing completely of his own accord, and that the surrounding circumstances and chain of events with the MPS was just coincidence).Homunculus (duihua) 22:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't feel like I need to state my opinion on the He/Luo issue itself. Quite simply, my opinion does not matter when it comes to building this encyclopedia based on verifiability, reliable sources, and due weight.

User Homunculus, I find working with you a very pleasant experience, unless the subject matter deals with Falun Gong. Thus, I try to avoid even having discussions with you about these matters unless I feel extremely strongly that Wiki policy has been violated. As you know, my experience with editing Falun Gong has not been pleasant. I have all but stopped editing those articles. If I do comment on them, I do my utmost to keep my comments focused on content, and avoid personal remarks.

I want to thank you for this message. I, too, would like to extend a hand in furthering our trust and cooperation, and I think our joint efforts over at Bo Xilai is a testament that this can be done in a civil, cooperative, even friendly manner. I intend to continue this relationship. Colipon+(Talk) 00:28, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, I won't press you further. I look forward to working with you more elsewhere. I may even seek to recruit your help on a few big projects that require rewriting. Homunculus (duihua) 00:48, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 10 April 2012.

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FAR

I have nominated Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 02:55, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

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Request for mediation accepted

The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.

As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.

For the Mediation Committee, WGFinley (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
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Sticky?

Hey Gord. What's a "sticky"?VR _talk 03:19, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

It is basically a bare-link to the article that would appear beside "Recent Deaths", without a blurb attached. Colipon+(Talk) 03:34, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

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Li Yang (Crazy English)

Thanks for the BLP removal! Not sure how I missed it. — Mr. Stradivarius 13:44, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure. I just find it ironic that IP editor was editing the page of an English teacher (probably one of his fans) and had no grasp of the language whatsoever. Colipon+(Talk) 15:59, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Re: Misplaced Pages talk:ITNRSCE

Re your message: I think I will leave it deleted. Misplaced Pages:ITNRSCE does not exist, so CSD G8 applies. You also set it to a redirect to a particular section of a discussion and a closed section at that, which is highly unusual. Looking at the links to WT:ITNRSCE, they appear to be all of your posts and not in use by anybody else. If your intention was to use WT:ITNRSCE to link to a particular discussion, that is not the usual practice for Misplaced Pages Talk namespace links. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 20:43, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your response... would a good compromise solution to be to create at least a redirect to that discussion? I don't really see this as being a huge issue. Colipon+(Talk) 21:21, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

You already had such an unusual redirect as that was what I deleted. My recommendation is that if you need to link to a particular archived discussion, just link it the "long" way instead of trying to have a shortcut. Such a short cut can infer a guideline or project that does not exist and I do not believe that would be proper. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:53, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Cake theory

On 23 April 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cake theory, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Chinese politicians have engaged in debate over economic development using a metaphor for baking a cake? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cake theory.You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:06, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

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Our recent interaction

I thought you might find this interesting. I hope that I can earn your forgiveness for my conduct during that affair, even if you weren't aware of it. Sven Manguard Wha? 01:29, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I have always tried to assume good faith in fellow users, and my experiences on this encyclopedia has been overwhelmingly positive with only a few exceptions. I was not offended in any way, but I appreciate you coming forward and explaining everything. Colipon+(Talk) 02:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Not a forum

Hi Colipon, Across multiple fora related to Falun Gong, you have used talk pages to register your general dislike of the subject and of the editors who contribute. You have been asked before to comment on content, not contributors, and have consistently failed to do so. You would be well advised to note that the two editors whose sentiments you recently echoed at Talk:Falun Gong were summarily banned for using talk pages as a forum. I think leniency has been applied to you (at least by me) because, apart from this name space, you're a constructive editor. From another perspective, as a veteran editor, you should know better.Homunculus (duihua) 01:53, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Editors can voice their frustration about the state of an article that s/he believes cannot be constructively remedied through the normal editorial process due to tendentious behavior by others. If you really believe I am engaging in behavior that warrants disciplinary action, you can file a complaint against me, report me to an admin, or seek some other sanction. I reserve my right to speak my mind when I think the interests of this encyclopedia have been damaged or threatened, as they have been over at Falun Gong-related articles over the years.

As an aside, I read some of your recent contributions - such as those over at barefoot lawyers. They are well-written and very constructive. Credit should be given where it is due. Colipon+(Talk) 02:27, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Nucai

To answer your question, a GA reviewer might think it's too short as it is. But, it's well written, and if you can expand it further, it may pass a GA review. In fact, if you can expand it 5x more than you already have, it can get to DYK. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it might be able to pass at this size. For a comparably sized article, see Commissioner's Trophy (MLB). – Muboshgu (talk) 23:46, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

You're right. I guess there is no absolute measure of article size that is good or bad, given the subject that you would be dealing with. I've only recently begun the GA business. What does getting an article to GA mean apart from brownie points? Colipon+(Talk) 02:45, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Hu Chunhua

Hello! Your submission of Hu Chunhua at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Thelmadatter (talk) 01:24, 3 May 2012 (UTC) Its great to have someone working on China-related articles but expansions can be tough. The 5x rule is pretty rigid.Thelmadatter (talk) 01:24, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

ITN Ticker

FYI, I think the tweaks you made at ITNC made it much better. I still have some questions (or questions) about the change though and would like to see it brought to a larger discussion. Hot Stop 11:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree with wider discussion, though most of the time it gets derailed because editors are quick to criticize and do not suggest any solutions in its place. So I'm feeling a little disillusioned; but if the ticker does not work, then I will default to removing elections from ITNR altogether. Colipon+(Talk) 14:13, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

ITN Elections

TGhis is ridiculous, no one wants to partak ein discussion when we coe with somethign yet everyone jumps to opposing any chage. Now we have 3 elections on there (with armenia should be posted (better than serbias article) and syria do up. That would be ALL elections on ITN. (and that snooke thingLihaas (talk) 12:53, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree it is patently ridiculous. I think it really highlights some weaknesses in the ITN decision making system - every other part of the main page, FA, DYK, OTD, etc has to go through layers of scrutiny but ITN can be the work of a few camped editors (or in this case, opposition from a few editors). As a side note, are you typing on a tablet? It really needs a spell checker. Colipon+(Talk) 13:21, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Back at you!

Double imaginary barnstar... working in Asian topics is even harder to do well in en.wiki!!! Spanish is relatively easy to learn as its a related language. But any Asian language for English speakers and vice versa is a much bigger challenge.Thelmadatter (talk) 21:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Apologies

Hi -- Now I've cooled off a bit, I wanted to apologize for misinterpreting some of your remarks and for being needlessly disruptive. Sorry about that. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 22:30, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tyrannus. I do have to offer my own apologies. I was more aggressive than I should have, and made the debate more personal than I would have liked. It is undeniable that I am frustrated over the state of ITN. I find you to be a thoughtful, nuanced, and intelligent contributor to these discussions, and I am optimistic that we can work collaboratively in the future. Thank you for leaving this friendly note, and see you around. Currently, this discussion might interest you! Colipon+(Talk) 01:29, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Deleting

Why you delete all my edits? 95.156.153.215 (talk) 07:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Response

Response to you comment on my talk page. Cossaxx (talk) 00:27, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello stranger

I don't know who you are but I'm already falling in love with you :-) Don't worry, since were online we're both considered Eunuchs, no awkwardness possible.

Most all of your chinese interests match up with mine. I'm interested in Qing on forwards but not any further back. Is it me or does the china project page seem very light on activity and contributions. There aren't many proposals or active talk subjects. So do you speak/read Chinese or have you ever been to China? I had to ask that but you don't need to answer; not sure how much people like their privacy on wiki. And I think you're being too humble about your english level, it seems native to me. Or did you let wikipedians edit it for you #$%?. So do you believe in collaboration with others who share your interests or do you like to go it alone? I look forward to reading your articles and I will click that little star on the top right to prove it. Oh,just realized that will only follow your talk page. Can I follow you more generally to see your edits and articles in real time fashion? I'm new so I'd like to learn the process from the stands. 好的-再见一路顺风-我希望我可以常常碰到你在维基百科Whoisgalt (talk) 14:58, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for the friendly note. You can see some of my contributions at User:Colipon/Contributions. You can always help improve them. If you have any questions about Wiki let me know. I would be happy to help you get oriented here. Colipon+(Talk) 18:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

ITN

Thanks for your friendly note. Although I do disagree with you on many things, I definitely agree with your message! Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 02:27, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Replying to your comment on my talk page, I'd like to analyse the response to Jayron32's proposal before taking the idea lab stuff any further. I think understanding what the community is looking for and tweaking the message accordingly is the way to go here: proposing before we know what we're "up against" is an approach that often kills off fantastic ideas. —WFC— 11:58, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

AE

Please see here. I'm sorry about this. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 03:56, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Heh

Thanks for the shout-out. Cheers, Khazar2 (talk) 04:03, 21 May 2012 (UTC)