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Talk:Branko Damljanović: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 22:24, 27 May 2012 editGoodDay (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers493,719 edits →Requested move← Previous edit Revision as of 00:16, 28 May 2012 edit undoAndrewa (talk | contribs)Administrators61,986 edits →Requested moveNext edit →
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*:Jelena Dokić is complicated a bit by the fact that she has migrated back and forth more than once between countries, i.e., whether she has implicitly or intentionally changed the spelling of her name by living in Australia. It's also complicated by the fact that she is a tennis player, because it has been claimed that tennis players are required to register for their player ID serial numbers with diacritic-less names, which supposedly means they have chosen to be known by an English name without diacritics (I am paraphrasing and perhaps misstating the argument, but in any case, requested moves for sports figures in tennis and hockey in particular have been more fraught with disputes than average). And finally, moderate diacritics opposers for the most part tend to insist that every article needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. So, no, I don't think the outcome of the Jelena Dokić move would resolve anything here. — ] (]) 21:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC) *:Jelena Dokić is complicated a bit by the fact that she has migrated back and forth more than once between countries, i.e., whether she has implicitly or intentionally changed the spelling of her name by living in Australia. It's also complicated by the fact that she is a tennis player, because it has been claimed that tennis players are required to register for their player ID serial numbers with diacritic-less names, which supposedly means they have chosen to be known by an English name without diacritics (I am paraphrasing and perhaps misstating the argument, but in any case, requested moves for sports figures in tennis and hockey in particular have been more fraught with disputes than average). And finally, moderate diacritics opposers for the most part tend to insist that every article needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. So, no, I don't think the outcome of the Jelena Dokić move would resolve anything here. — ] (]) 21:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
**:The Jelena Dokić RM is complicated because (i) the nationality issue which P.T. Aufrette mentions, which is a meaningful issue. (ii) the non-meaningful issue: 2 academic sources in English (Grasso and Roberts) have her as "Jelena Dokić", the same as a 3rd academic source listing the Serbian pianist Jelena Dokić, but popular sources with NY Times MOS (allowing French, German and Spanish names, but not allowing Slavic, Scandinavian, and Turkish names) strip the accent, as they do ] and every one of the 400,000 Slavic, Scandinavian, and Turkish bios and places on en.wp. Including all the chess players in ], ], ], ], ], ], ], etc. The issue as usual is to follow ] and indentify reliable-for-purpose sources or simply play American Idol where the most sources, reliable for spelling or not, 'wins'. ] (]) 22:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC) **:The Jelena Dokić RM is complicated because (i) the nationality issue which P.T. Aufrette mentions, which is a meaningful issue. (ii) the non-meaningful issue: 2 academic sources in English (Grasso and Roberts) have her as "Jelena Dokić", the same as a 3rd academic source listing the Serbian pianist Jelena Dokić, but popular sources with NY Times MOS (allowing French, German and Spanish names, but not allowing Slavic, Scandinavian, and Turkish names) strip the accent, as they do ] and every one of the 400,000 Slavic, Scandinavian, and Turkish bios and places on en.wp. Including all the chess players in ], ], ], ], ], ], ], etc. The issue as usual is to follow ] and indentify reliable-for-purpose sources or simply play American Idol where the most sources, reliable for spelling or not, 'wins'. ] (]) 22:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

::Surely, this discussion belongs at ] rather than here? ] (]) 00:16, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move

The request to rename this article to Branko Damljanović has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

– Per MOS "consistent with related articles" Category:Serbian chess players, per WP:Naming conventions (Serbian) and per reliable-for-purpose sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:42, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

  • Oppose, as this is English language Misplaced Pages & there's no diacritics in the English alphabet. GoodDay (talk) 13:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Support. As a scholarly source of information (or one that should aspire to be), Misplaced Pages should consistently provide diacritics where they are used in the names of persons, even if less scholarly sources occasionally omit them. Serbian is written in either Cyrillic or Latin alphabets, and in the Latin alphabet it uses diacritics. Diacritics provide important pronunciation information for those who can understand them and can simply be ignored by those who don't. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 13:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
This Misplaced Pages is primarily for English-only readers. Multi-lingual readers, have the option of other language Wikipedias & shouldn't be pushing diacritics on English Misplaced Pages. GoodDay (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
This Misplaced Pages is for everyone who can read English. Even monolingual English speakers understand some diacritics, for instance "é" at the end of a word for an "e" that would otherwise be silent, as for "resumé" (aka "résumé"), Beyoncé, and many other examples. And the use of diaeresis to split up what might otherwise be considered a diphthong is long-established in English, the New Yorker magazine notably has long used the spelling "coöperation" (a bit affected but still perfectly valid). So when you start "transliterating" English into English, as you did with this edit for the name of a (presumably native-born) American like Zoë Baird, you really should step back a bit and consider. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 15:35, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
It's for English 'only' readers first & the English alphabet has no diacritics. GoodDay (talk) 22:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment: Might it be wise to see how Talk:Jelena Dokić#Requested move 2 turns out before moving on these? No vote as yet. Andrewa (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
    Jelena Dokić is complicated a bit by the fact that she has migrated back and forth more than once between countries, i.e., whether she has implicitly or intentionally changed the spelling of her name by living in Australia. It's also complicated by the fact that she is a tennis player, because it has been claimed that tennis players are required to register for their player ID serial numbers with diacritic-less names, which supposedly means they have chosen to be known by an English name without diacritics (I am paraphrasing and perhaps misstating the argument, but in any case, requested moves for sports figures in tennis and hockey in particular have been more fraught with disputes than average). And finally, moderate diacritics opposers for the most part tend to insist that every article needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. So, no, I don't think the outcome of the Jelena Dokić move would resolve anything here. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 21:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Surely, this discussion belongs at Talk:Jelena Dokić#Requested move 2 rather than here? Andrewa (talk) 00:16, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
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