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Revision as of 15:34, 10 July 2012

Ethnic groups B‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks: Meta-tasks: Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project. Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention Iyer Peruvian people Start an article: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

Montenegro Start‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Montenegro, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Montenegro on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MontenegroWikipedia:WikiProject MontenegroTemplate:WikiProject MontenegroMontenegro Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

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tallest nation

http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnets/troe/texts/p8.htm

Error in date

Under Religion "was ruled by the Venetians for 500 years until 17971". Does anyone have the correct date so it can be fixed?

Infobox gives a bad impression of Montenegrins

The infobox here, one of the first things a reader sees, gives a rather bad first impression of Montenegrins. There's only one woman among the twelve famous Montengrins in the infobox, which of course will lead the reader to wonder whether the position of women in Montenegrin society is that bad? If there are famous Montenegrin women, and I am sure they are, I would strongly suggest making sure that at least 25% of the famous persons featured with pictures in the infobox are female. The current infobox leaves the reader wondering about how equal Montenegrin society is, and that is probably not what anyone wants the infobox to do.Jeppiz (talk) 13:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Montenegrin Identity

I am an ethnic Montenegrin or Doclean (archaism). The people in central Serbia are Rascians (archaism), the guys in Vojvodina are Vojvodjans, the guys in north Bosnia are Krajisniks. We all belong to people that are known as Serbs, and have the same culture, tradition, language, historical kings and rulers.

Montenegro was the only free region that was still under Serbian rule in the times of Ottoman occupation (350 years). The repopulation of the war depopulated territories of south Hungary (now Slawonia and Vojvodina), Bosnia, Rascia (now central Serbia), came from Montenegro. 80% of all Serbs are of Montenegrin descendancy, 10% are Serbs of south Serbia, 10% are integrated immigrants.

Serbia and Montenegro, or better Rascia and Doclea are old stubborn regions, which had 2 royal dynasties in the 19th century, the Karadjordjevic (Rascia) and Petrovic (Doclea). The problem was not, should the lands unite or not, the problem was, who should take the throne.

Real ethnic Montenegrins, are Serbs, they are "more" Serb than any other Serbs, cause they are their ancestors. Montenegrins by nationality are all sorts of ethnic groups that are citizens of Montenegro. Same with any other nation.

- Montenegrin, without an identity crisis

(P.S. example: ethnic Austrians are Germans, speaking the Upper German language, declaring themselves as Austrians) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.191.252.213 (talk) 18:43, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

1919 "unification"

The article reads:

• After the violent Christmas Uprising (1919), which saw fighting between the pro-Petrovic guerillas and the Karadjordjevic troops, there was significant opposition to unification with Serbia although a majority of Montenegrin people were in favour of unification.

When will some people realise that the events of late 1918 were not a unification? It was 100% absorption. Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and its successor Serbia and Montenegro were unifications albeit downsizing from their previous condition (a larger Yugoslavia) but the two entities continued a separate existence within a shared state. "Fighting between the pro-Petrovic guerillas and the Karadjordjevic troops" is not the recipe for unification since the Petrović dynasty should still have ruled Montenegro if not assume a new agreed central role from the state capital; Montenegro in turn should have existed alongside Serbia, not be an entity within a country that is called Serbia and one in which the legal authority of Montenegro has fled. So regardless of what a majority of Montenegrin people might have thought, what they got was no more a "unification" than so-called German unification when the Berlin wall went down. Propagandists to this day hide behind the unofficial short forms of the names West and East Germany to obscure the fact that the Democratic Republic of Germany (east) was ousted and its leadership fled whilst the Federal Republic (west) expanded its own territory with no change whatsoever to the government structure. Had East Germany not have included the name Germany in its title, people may have been more aware of this. Yet with Montenegro reduced to almost nothing in 1919 much to the rancour of the proponents of the Montenegrin monarchy, I wish to know on what grounds anybody can declare the absorption of the land into an existing "Kingdom of Serbia" a unification. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 05:53, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Errors in famous Montenegrins box

Nikola I Mirkov Petrović-Njegoš, king of Montenegro - declared himself as an ethnic Serb of Montenegro, not as explicitly Montenegrin. He is the author of the famous song "Onamo 'namo" also known as the Serbian Marseillaise.

Marko Miljanov Popović - Miljanov wrote that during an attack by the Montenegrin Prince Danilo on the Kuči clan (Miljanov's clan), the Kuči's shouted: "Do not attack your Serb brother, o Montenegrins, may your cheek be black, as it is if you act so against your brother!". Message to the Austrian ambassador to Montenegro: "Tell that Austrian deputy, to tell his Emperor, should God turn him over to good, to then unite the Serbdom: Bosnia and 'Erzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia and Old Serbia, and to make that the Serb Kingdom. Such statements indicate his ethnic identification as Serb rather than explicitly Montenegrin."

Krsto Zrnov Popović - eventhough an opponent of the Belgrade regime and the dynasty of Karageorgevich which sought to annex Montenegro into one Serb nation, stated the importance of Montenegro in general Serbdom: "Crna Gora ona zemlja đe se čuvala i sačuvala iskra slobode Srbinove / Montenegro the land where the spark of the Serbs freedom was kept and preserved" Krsto Zrnov about Serbdom. Such statements indicate his ethnic identification as Serb rather than explicitly Montenegrin.

Princess Jelena Petrović-Njegoš of Montenegro - belonged to the Petrovic-Njegos dynasty which traditionaly declared themselves as ethnic Serbs rather than explicitly Montenegrin.

These people should be noted under the section Serbs of Montenegro and not explicitly Montenegrins.

I have changed the list to only include those who are shown as identifying as ethnic Montenegrins. I think the problem here is that there are people who strongly identify as being Montenegrin (as in a person living in Montenegro) but may not identify as an ethnic Montenegrin. Perhaps this article's material should be placed in an article called "Ethnic Montenegrins" or "Montenegrins (ethnicity)" while this article titled "Montenegrins" would refer to the citizens of Montenegro who include ethnic Montenegrins, Montenegrin Serbs, Montenegrin Bosniaks, etc.--R-41 (talk) 22:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the term Montenegrins is also a demonym. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:21, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Ethnic Montenegrins exist since 1948

Ethnic Montenegrins exist since 1948, all personalities, as well as culture and tradition, preceeding that year cannot be called ethnic Montenegrin, since no such denomination existed, it is true that a lot of what is now considered ethnic Montenegrin developed from cultures that inhabited the same area as they do now, but those culture weren't ethnic Montenegrin nor did they ever describe themselves as solely Montenegrin. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a platform for mythomanical propaganda.

Users who are in dispute on infobox inclusion, should this article be about Montenegrins as citizens of Montenegro, or Montenegrins as an ethnicity? Discuss and resolve it

The issue here is the ethnicity one, officially a Montenegrin ethnicity was not prevalent before 1948, and people prior to 1948 there are no records of any significant number of Montenegrin citizens who identified as ethnic Montenegrin. If I am wrong, please present evidence that shows a recognition of a Montenegrin ethnicity prior to the 1940s.

I suggested a bit above that if there is a problem about this article being focused on ethnic Montenegrins, rather than Montenegrin citizens as a whole, that this article could be redesigned to focus on the citizens of Montenegro that could include Montenegrin people who are not ethnic Montenegrins, there are Montenegrin citizens other than ethnic Montenegrins including Serbs, Bosniaks, and Albanians. I have proposed that an article named one of the three possibilities: Ethnic Montenegrins, Montenegrin ethnicity, or Montenegrins (ethnicity) to avoid this dispute between Montenegrins as an ethnicity and Montenegrins as citizens. It is up to you to decide. Should this article be about Montenegrins as an ethnicity as it currently is laid out as? Or should this article be about Montenegrins as in citizens of Montenegro?--R-41 (talk) 03:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Just to make it clear: Mihailo I of Duklja, Constantine Bodin, Petar II Petrović-Njegoš, Nicholas I of Montenegro, Ivan I Crnojević · Krsto Zrnov Popovic, Marko Miljanov and Elena of Montenegro were not ethnic Montenegrins and they never declared as Montenegrins. Montenegrins did not exist until the year 1948, when the communists under the leadership of Josip Broz Tito forced all of the Serbs in Montenegro to declare as "Montenegrins", therefore it is impossible for the above-mentioned people to be "Montenegrins". However, people such as Mirko Vučinić, Nikola Vučević and Milo Đukanović have declared themselves to be ethnic Montenegrins. Therefore, these people should be listed as ethnic Montenegrins in the infobox, not the people who are currently listed as most of the historical figures presently listed are Serbs from Montenegro. If some users (i.e. Navyworth, or to go by his IP address 62.178.104.225) cannot comprehend this, then I suggest this article should be renamed Montenegrins (ethnicity) or Montenegrin people, because the present name of this article makes it sound as if the people in question (i.e. Njegoš, Nicholas I) are ethnic Montenegrins, which they are not.--23 editor (talk) 15:34, 10 July 2012 (UTC) 23_editor 10 July 2012 11:31 (EDT)

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