Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:48, 7 August 2012

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for indef blocking WikAdvisor. Anderson - what's up? 02:27, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks :) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:05, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
• Someone needed to block him.--Anderson - what's up? 22:25, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:WER User Box templates

I have created a few userbox templates. This was my first one a while back:

.

I will begin work shortly to create a template page for your user box and image and create others using the suggestions from others on the discussion page and place them all on the Project userbox page.--Amadscientist (talk) 21:46, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

• I would like to see that new image in a mock up userbox as well. Not sure the color, I'm guessing white back on white. Maybe on the main userbox page on the mainpage. That is a good graphic, and I hope it looks good when reduced. some don't, you dont' know til you reduce it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
• The good thing is, it can be altered in anyway (actually most can) so if there are visual problems with the reduction we can discuss ways to improve the image just like prose.--Amadscientist (talk) 22:47, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
  • I've started a motion to make your image of the two hands over the W as the official graphic for the Project. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:15, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Deletion review for Moral and national education

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Moral and national education. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.

Hello

How appealing blocks? I don't understand how, don't work to do edits anything....

Need an admin

At the very bottom of this page. Noun and I worked together on a bunch of new templates for the {{request edit}} process that's very similar to AfCs. He says we need an admin to move them. Would love if you could chip in really quick. User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 00:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• Gosh, I just started a proposal for a major change in admin sanction policy. Let me look and see if I can figure it out. I never mess with templates, so I'm not an expert there. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
• I've moved it, but it broke something in the template. I assume this is something you can fix.

Template:Request edit/request Normally, you can just move it yourself, then blank and CSD the old page as user request, and get the same result. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, it seems we need another small change made (as I understand) by an admin. Template:Request edit and Template:Request edit/request are in the wrong place and need to be swapped with each other. (The broken bit is where the page at /request tries to grab the existing code, which it expects will be sitting at /request. Thankfully, the wiki has a sanity check which just displays the error message when the template calls itself.) As I understand it, that requires a move without creating a redirect (or overwriting a redirect after it is created). The associated talk pages would also have to be moved. I could try to fix it with copy and paste, but that would probably get me some administrative attention of a far less desirable sort. :) Thanks again for your help. --Nouniquenames (talk) 03:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand all of this, or what the problem is with copy/paste, but I did a copy/paste move. If it attracts some kind of complaint, than so be it. :-D User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 20:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Be bold. If no one ever complaints, you aren't taking enough risks ;) Sorry, I have been mega swamped with the new proposed policy at WP:RAS Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:36, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Query

Dennis Brown, do you mind weighing in at User talk:Boing! said Zebedee#Question? Flyer22 (talk) 19:20, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• I've replied there. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Kind of an ANI notice

I saw WP:ANI#User:Penyulap and thought you'd be interested in it. I'm still formulating my thoughts. Ryan Vesey 21:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you, by the way. I appreciate the heads up. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 09:28, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Taking a bit of a break

Someone falsely assumed that I was somehow 'eager' for the sh** you have to put up with. Considering the wall'o'crap that has lead up to this, I'm asking you, do you think I actually want to be an admin ? I'm dumb sure, but not that stupid. You know the equation, and time shall prove me right that the project can't be saved, despite our best, earnest efforts. So, it's off to work on something better. Penyulap ☏ 22:22, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)

• And I will stay here, trying to create it from within. I don't claim to understand you, but not even you are capable of that. I only know enough to understand that I would understand if I knew enough. You aren't happy when you are here, and even when you aren't, but happiness is a choice and not a place. I wish I had more to offer you, but I'm at a loss. I wish you well. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:54, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
• I'll add that "time shall prove me right that the project can't be saved" has been said by very many people repeatedly since at least 2003, probably in exactly those words on occasion. Whatever doom awaits Misplaced Pages, it sure isn't really good at getting there in a timely fashion to prove any of them right. — Coren  23:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• It's a wiki. Someone keeps changing the date of failure, and I can't find a reliable source anywhere. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• I don't even understand why people discuss the failure of the Wiki. We only need to make it 5 more months then the point is moot  Ryan Vesey 23:43, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm Used to It

You mentioned in the DreamMcQueen thread that you were "impressed by the amount of restraint was showing", it's actually cause I am pretty used to the insults by now. The ones I heard from DreamMcQueen are ones I have heard numerous times before. Even though I was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 22, I have had it all my life. So, I have always been this way, always will, so I am used to the insults. :) It isn't restraint, but my usual nonchalant attitude when it comes to people who insult me. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

after (edit conflict) That's too bad. Sorry to hear that. There's not much we wiki users can do about the real life bullying/insults, but if this is going on onwiki? If so we may be able to help.PumpkinSky talk 02:31, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

When you have Aspergers, you develop a thick skin. Some things still get through, but DreamMcQueen's insults weren't one of them. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:48, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• You might think I was a bit generous with the block, and I agree, but I was so offended, and obviously so, that it was necessary that I block for a "logical" period, and since the last block was 96 hours, 1 week was the next logical step. I will not take any offense if the community overrides this generosity, but I felt that the block needed to happen when it did and he clearly wasn't going to back off his attacks. I accept that the attacks were because of a gross ignorance, but attacks are attacks, just as disruption is disruption, regardless of the reason. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:30, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Nah, block is a block. We are just going about the normal escalation of blocks. First 24 hours, then 96, now a week. Just a normal process. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:48, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• After this comment, I have extended the ANI thread on DreamMcQueen and created an SPI. Just letting you know. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
  • I asked User:Keegan to do a CU (since we were dealing with a sockpuppeteer and the worry of sleeper accounts) and he did and there weren't any sleeper accounts. The SPI is still open, so I guess he is going to have another CU check as well. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
• Doesn't anyone ever sleep around here? :) I will check into it, I'm an SPI clerk. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 09:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
  • This is my daytime, I am a serious night owl. Always have been. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:19, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
    • This is my 5 am. Literally. I just closed the SPI case, he had no reason to admit unless it was true, calling it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 09:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
      • Mom said I was a night owl when she was carrying me. It runs in the family, I come from a long line of nightowls. :) Anywho, thanks for the close, glad to get that out of the way and done and over with. Sadly, I don't think it is the last we will see of Rollosmokes. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
        • Note that I moved the case to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Rollosmokes without a redirect. Paper shuffling is a big part of what a clerk does at SPI. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 09:32, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
          • I figured that would happen once it was confirmed it was Rollosmokes, so no worries. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:55, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
            • Probably needs a tie-in-type cleanup to Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Runteldat ;P Pesky (talk) 11:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
              • Yeah, it does, but do know that Runteldat is a sock of Rollosmokes, not the master account. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:39, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, OK. I'd only linked the two by following (would you believe?) some link, somewhere ... hehe! Whichever way they go, ideally they should be in one archive. Rollosmokes, by the look of it ;P Pesky (talk) 14:20, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Editor retention talk page and Penyulap

Do you think the block should be mentioned there, or do you think everyone will know why P is no longer participating. I have to admit that I was getting tired of Penyulap's posts and they were driving me away. Dougweller (talk) 06:57, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• I don't know, to be honest. Penyulap isn't banned, he was just taking a break, backed by a community block. I'm guessing he will be back but not sure how long. He is a complicated and likable pain in the ass if you get to know him a bit, but the block was strongly backed by the community and he was on a destructive and downward spiral. Just woke up after only a few hours sleep, need to coffee up and think about it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 09:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
  • The other thing to think about is his behavior in article and article talk page space. Maybe I've misunderstood, but it did look like the sort of behavior that drives editors away. Dougweller (talk) 14:38, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

  I really don't like the idea that one editor drives another away, however we do need to remember that this is a volunteer project. There are many reasons that people volunteer, but they all boil down to "because they want to". If they didn't want to, they wouldn't do it. If an editor is causing enough of a problem that other editors don't want to deal with them, then yes, that behaviour is driving other editors away. Worm(talk) 14:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

  • • I agree that sometimes editors do. If people are edit warring and it goes unnoticed, you can drive away good editors that are trying to comply with policy. If someone constantly attacks or harasses another edit, you can drive them away. This is why part of editor retention involved even, fair and consistent actions by admins, so people know what the rules are, and what is expected if they breach them. I have seen editors driven away by the maddening process of dealing with disruptive or obstructive editors. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:19, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

WP:RAS

Regarding WP:RAS, I've added it to this navbox for easier navigation. If I've misrepresented it, please do feel free to change what I've written, and add any other links that you think should be included. Worm(talk) 16:12, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• Excellent! I was hoping to get someone to do that today. You read my mind :) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
• Um, actually, that navbox is for Jc37's proposal, not mine. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
• oh oh, wait, lemme look again. this is confusing. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

  It's not that hard ;) It's for all the different proposals, CDAPoC, RAS and RRA. I think I had it in a different order, but Jc37 moved them round. I didn't intend for them to take any particular order, so it didn't matter to me. If you can think of anything else that needs saying for RAS, or any other links, please do go ahead and add them. Worm(talk) 16:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

  I was thinking of a mock up on the page of WP:RAS itself. I just haven't had time to do that, and not my specialty. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:35, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Roswell UFO incident?Sunrise

Cash prize.

Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:52, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• I see you've been stalking Drmies talk page :) Thank you, I needed that. I've been giving mine away all day. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Friendly discussion regarding block policy

In no way is this a request for soliciting a block. This is simply an editor asking a question of a successful RFA candidate.

I have a question regarding the Blocking policy. As I read through the page to help me get a firmer grasp on the intricacies of the policy, I am having a hard time reconciling "Blocks should not be punitive" coupled with "Blocks should be used to ... encourage a more productive, congenial editing style within community norms." In my mind a block that is enacted to get a editor to edit within community norms is a punishment to that editor for not following the norms. Could you please help me understand the difference? I wanted to discuss this here with a practicing admin prior to asking at a place like the village pumps, the talk page for blocking policy, or the talk page of AN for fear of being shouted down for the contemplative navel gazing. Thank you for your time. Hasteur (talk) 21:08, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

A large number of blocks are punitive and I've recently come to the decision that at times they should be. For the longest time I argued against civility blocks because they were strictly punitive. Many editors justified them by saying a civility block here prevents incivility in the future. It's a loophole, but a poor one. Perhaps the best thing would be to remove the "blocks should not be punitive" and replace it with "blocks should be made in regards to ongoing or very recent actions". I feel the entire purpose of blocks should not be punitive is to keep someone from being blocked for an action they took yesterday or last week. If we tore down the wall, it would be possible to remove those editors who cannot behave in the manner expected by the community and retain the editors who can but are unwilling to be part of this oftentimes terrible environment. Ryan Vesey 21:19, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Blocks can't be given for punitive reasons. This is why if an editer really upsets me and deserves a block, I will get another admin to do the block, as they are more neutral. Last night is a good example. I was upset at an editor, so I had to really sit back and think, and ended up blocking them for a week, their 3rd block, even though I wanted to indef them. As it turns out, at ANI they had a discussion, and they decided to indef him, overriding my block (with my prior approval, as always). Because I had my own emotions involved, it was difficult to separate, but I did and erred on the conservative side. This time, I felt I could override my own emotions and make a reasonable call, and did. Other times, I have asked other admins to come in and make a determination because I knew I was too biased, had too strong of emotions to make a rational decision that was fair. (he who shall be nameless).

There is an incidental degree of punitive in all blocks only because they stop someone from editing, but the basis has to be in prevention. Let's say Bob is edit warring. I block him for 24 hours. Two days later, he is back edit warring. Obviously, the 24 hours wasn't sufficient to prevent disruption, so I try 72 hours. He comes back and does the same thing, so 1 week, then 2 week, and eventually indef. The key here is that I'm not trying to "punish" Bob, even if it feels that way. I'm not trying to "educate" Bob, but I hope that the break makes him think twice next time. What I am really doing is trying to give the other editors a peaceful time editing, and the only way I can do that is to remove Bob. It isn't about Bob as much as it is about maintaining peace. An admin's primary role is to foster a fair and equitable environment that allows all productive editors to create and maintain content in peace, by cleaning up messes, settling disputes and creating needed structure. We are servants of the community, not bosses of the community. (my words) Blocking as revenge or as purely punishment is abuse, and a pattern of it demands the admin lose his bit.

And I disagree with civility blocks, because they look good on the surface, but they end up causing more disruption in the long run. I used to think they were good, but now realize how mistaken I was. I've found that I have better luck using my words in those cases, but it isn't easy and takes practice and doesn't guarantee results, but neither does blocking. Being an admin is one hell of a lot more than using the tools, anyway. Personally, I don't judge my success by the number of blocks I give, but rather by the number of blocks I manage to avoid, by reducing the drama and getting both sides to draw a truce and deal with the underlying issues. And to be clear: These are wonderful ideals, and I don't claim I can live up to them every day, but I always try. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:59, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi

Answer to old LD50 question

Hello. I was perusing the Median lethal dose article and ran across your question about ionizing radiation. I attempted to answer there.--Wikimedes (talk) 06:55, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

• I've answered there, and thanks! Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 10:56, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

SPI

I need to add an editor (Wrothscaptcha) to a SPI request for checkuser you recently approved. Can I add the user and my evidence to the existing SPI or do I need to open a new request? Thanks. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 16:37, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

• I added it. You could pop in there and ask for a check for sleepers if you like. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:50, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I'll do just that. Atiyogafan is also most likely a sock. Thanks for the help. CorrectKnowledge (talk) 16:52, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Weird checkuser stuff

Are you Online?

I need help of administrator...GiantBluePanda (talk) 21:30, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'm here and there. it is usually faster if you just say what you need to start with. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
• Please clean up my block log. My block was put by mistake. GiantBluePanda (talk) 21:33, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
• Block logs can't be erased by admins. I wouldn't worry about it. Coren made, then reversed the block, and it was a checkuser block. Anyone who knows anything would look at that and know it was a mistaken block, so it shouldn't be a problem. If you feel that strongly, you should contact User:Coren himself. I don't have the tools to delete logs like that, no admin does. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:38, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
• Okay, I will contact. but, it appears that he is offline. Will try after some time. Thank you very much.:-) GiantBluePanda (talk) 21:42, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Hiya Dennis!

Are you open to trouting? Arcandam (talk) 01:50, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• If you are talking about our exchange earlier, I wouldn't recommend it. You and I have a different perspective on that. I allow for differences of opinion, but not for being trouted for it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Meh. I am sure we wouldn't have a difference of opinion if you would've had all the information. Arcandam (talk) 01:53, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Perhaps, which is why I allow for a great difference of opinion as that is often the case. Wiki's are great for building articles, not so great for communications. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 11:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Please consider my talk page. Thank you

Please check my talk page at the following link, and please leave a comment about what you think of Bearian's "Final Warning" alleging that I was in any way "disruptive" or "vandalizing" - on my own My Talk page. I respect your opinion and will follow your recommendation. Also, MART2012 is a unique person, with her own ideas, and not a sock puppet. Please consider restoring her account. Thank you. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Inetcafebooth6&pe=1&#Your_tone...._again Thank you University Internet Cafe Booth 6 (talk) 16:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• I am a little confused as to the entire sequence of events there. I suggest just politely asking Bearian for clarification on his talk page. That is usually a good place to start. As to socking, I would need more info. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:57, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Non admin closure of my ANI on the MICH IP sock

Hi Dennis,

I was caught up short to see that a non-admin closed my ANI proceeding. The guidelines for nonadmin closures do not mention this context as an appropriate place for non admin closure, specifically, and I'm hoping you'll un-close the discussion.

While blocking a range of IPs is problematic, it is (A) less than 12 hours since I opened the ANI, (B) the IP themself should get a chance to answer, if only for future reference, and (C) other impacted editors (mostly climate page editors) should also get a chance to sound off. Perhaps out of this airing some approach other than page protection will emerge. And perhaps, after due discussion, it will still be closed for the reasons the non-admin editor cited.

Thanks for your consideration, I'll be glad to abide by your timely judgment on re-opening the discussion on basis of premature closure. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:31, 2 August 2012 (UTC) Nevermind. Another admin converted the non admin closure into a one-month soft block of the range. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 19:07, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Youreallycan

He's causing problems on WP:BLPN and Stephen M. Cohen, again. Would you please speak to him, because I have a feeling he will not accept any sort of argument from me (he's already reverted content 3 times under the pretense he is protecting a BLP).—Ryulong (竜龙) 00:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• YRC has clearly and loudly asked me to not mentor him. At his last block, User:SlimVirgin convinced the blocking admin, User:Coren that they would work with YRC, and that is who I would suggest contacting. My participation would likely only antagonize the situation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:41, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thank you. I will contact Coren.—Ryulong (竜龙) 00:46, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

He has been edit warring with me because I will not allow him to add a link to the comment I posted on Coren's talk page. I have reported him to AN3 for this.—Ryulong (竜龙) 01:59, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

You've got mail!

MJ94 (talk) 04:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• Replied. Ping me here within a week if you haven't heard back yet again. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 06:54, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Catfish

So where should I have reported it, if not at ANI? Especially, as it turns out, since he had already been warned before about this kind of thing? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:05, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• Talk to him, talk to an admin that works at AIV. Revert him if he makes a mistake, and if he balks about it, just ask an admin. Try the talk page at AIV itself. The problem with ANI is it is often like killing flies with a shotgun, and it is easy to cause more damage than the result is worth. This is why it should be the last result. I don't think you intended for it to get out of hand, but ANI is that way. To many drive by comments that ramp up the drama, which is why it is better to keep in the areas where people care about the subject, like the talk pages of the venue where the mistakes are being made. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:14, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Generally, I either remove reports that have been declined by an admin and have been sitting there for a few hours, or comment on reports. Usually, an admin clears out the reports that I comment on at 00:00 UTC. Also, had you reverted my an used an edit summary saying why I was wrong, I would've stopped and not objected. However, comments such as this are very rude and not appreciated, and are what made me retire: Well shit. It looks like JamesBWatson warned them in June, as well. We got trouble; we are not getting through to this editor. -- Dianna (talk) 04:26, 3 August 2012 (UTC). Electric Catfish 13:57, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'm very aware of our subpar methods used for dealing with problems. I've been on that end of the stick before, where I think I'm doing something right and someone bites my head off, when a simple discussion would have sufficed. I truly don't think Bugs meant to bite your head off and instead just didn't know where to take what he legitimately felt was a problm, and the process of ANI itself is a poor one to deal with these problems. This is why I try to jump into issues quickly and resolve when I can. We all need to just back away for a day or two, and then have a real conversation on what is and isn't the best thing for non-admins to do in the venues, so there isn't further misunderstandings. I think everyone knows that everyone here was trying to do the right thing and no one was trying to hurt Misplaced Pages, so lets just keep focused on that if we can. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Dennis, I totally agree with you. I've seen many experienced editors leave because of a rude ANI report. Also, I appreciated how many people commented that most of the work I do at AIV and UAA is good. I need a break, though. Best, Electric Catfish 14:17, 3 August 2012 (UTC).

Dennis, Bugs had every right to post at AIV. Your poor perception of AIV aside reporting to individual admins or the talk page for AIV can take hours or days to get a response. To enhance the quote from Dianna that is shoehorned into Catfishes post above a look at his/her talk page shows concerns about his/her activities at AIV expressed on June 12 by JamesBWatson, on June 28 by Luke and by Ponyo on July 8. Yet he was still making errors there yesterday. In other areas on July 6 Ian thomsan had to leave a message about another AIV item that Catfish had misinterpreted and on July 10 Acalamari had to leave a message about his/her actions at Requests for permissions/Rollback. At a guess this is a young and overenthusiastic editor who may be taking in the advice given to them or may not depending on ones POV. Well I am sure that you won't like this post so please feel free to remove it but I have seen far worse things happen here (and in places other than ANI) over the years then occurred in this situation and if Catfish decides to retire that is totally on him/her and should not be laid on anyone elses doorstep. MarnetteD | Talk 14:42, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I never said Bugs had no rights to post at ANI, he knows that, I hope. I get along with Bugs quite well. I just said it is typically better to exhaust other remedies before going to ANI (I assume that is what you meant). I've made it clear that Bugs had a legit concern. And you obviously don't know me very well, I do not suppress different opinions from others here (and really, I don't have any issue with your post), but it would be helpful if you understood the relationships involved. I personally like all the players here, and my goal is to find a solution with the least drama, that is all. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Marnette, that comment offends me a bit. I appreciated that Dennis was trying to lift me up and you didn't help me out with that. Electric Catfish 14:48, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm also going to fully retire because of that comment. Electric Catfish 14:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Hey MarnetteD. I think Dennis is under the same impression as I am, that ANI is not a pleasant place to be if you view it from the perception of the "target". There's a number of reasons why it's problematic, for one thing, there's a crowd of onlookers baying for blood, many of whom are not willing to look into the case in depth, then there's the fact that you have to have come there looking for sanctions and people are so willing to block over smallest things. We have many different areas for dispute resolution, ANI should be used for emergencies, where there is no other option. Now, Catfish has cause a few problems in the past, and I've signed up to mentor him. He does an awful lot of good too, and I'm sure he'll go from strength to strength with a bit of guidance. Worm(talk) 14:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

DB's point was that there are better ways to handle a situation than blast someone at ANI. I do not appreciate your statement. Electric Catfish 14:53, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Dave. Electric Catfish 14:54, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Catfish - you've told me you're going off wiki for the weekend. Let's start that now. Just close the browser. I've got it from here. We'll chat about things on Monday. Worm(talk) 14:55, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Bye! Electric Catfish 14:56, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

You know, when you say you're going to "fully retire" because of what MarnetteD said, methinks you're a bit too sensitive for your own good. Like the boy who cried wolf. Listen to your mentor. Doc talk 14:58, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I got edit conflicted with Worm, but it turned out to be a good thing as he summed it up better than I was going to. And MarnetteD, I respect your concern for Bugs and desire to protect, but I actually think highly of them so my words were just advice to prevent drama, not a scolding. Most of these guys know they can come here and get a neutral point of view in a less drama filled environment. That is one of the ideas behind WP:WER, the project I advertise in my sig., a Project I founded. To me, it is all about keeping good editors here and working out issues without pointing fingers when possible. And Doc, the heat of the moment makes us all want to do that sometimes. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:02, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes, yes. "I'm also going to fully retire because of that comment." may not send up any flags for you, but it does for me. We need new editors, but we don't need to coddle them like babies. As I said on your talk page, Catfish: toughen up. It's a big, bad world out there... Doc talk 15:11, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Worm and DB thanks for your responses. I do understand the heavy drama at ANI. DB while we have never had previous interactions I have watched the good efforts that you put in trying to make things work around here. This statement "There is a proper way to deal with these issues, and ANI is not it." read to me as though you were saying that Bugs did not have the right to post about this situation there. My apologies if I misread it. Then later in the same post you state "but needless to say I will not be amused if he really does retire over this". I have seen so many editors claim that it was other people who were "forcing" them to retire (including in this thread) when that is just not the case. We all have to be willing to take criticism as well as praise around here to make things work. That is just my 2 cents so apologies for any offense caused and I hope everyone has a nice weekend. MarnetteD | Talk 15:14, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Note there were at least three edit conflicts so some of what I just posted may be OOD. MarnetteD | Talk 15:16, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I understand how my directness could be misunderstood, but I wouldn't blame Bugs, we are all responsible for our actions. I wouldn't be amused because I hate seeing ANI run people off, regardless of who brought it there. The process itself is a bit ugly, and yes, since I founded WikiProject Editor Retention, I hate to see good people go. Most people know that I think ANI is an ugly place, which is why I work it very hard every day, to try to keep the drama level down, and not point fingers. And I wasn't offended at all, you felt like you needed to defend a friend and you weren't sure how I meant what I said. Note the link in my signature for my talk page, 2¢, so obviously I expect people to drop theirs off here regularly. We are all on the same side here, even if we have different ideas, that is all that matters. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:44, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Just to clarify while Bugs and I have had conversations over the years I don't know that we would classify each other as friends. My post here was brought about by the fact that - as overly dramatic as it is - a post at ANI can be the only place to get a response in a given situation. I have seen reports at AIV and other places sit for hours before being looked at and reports at SPI can take weeks. It is more than a little frustrating to go through the proper channels and see little or nothing done for the time one puts in trying to protect WikiP. I have not made intiated a report at ANI for over 6 years but I want it to be there when I need it too much drama or not. Thanks again and cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 16:17, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Bizarre message on my talk page

Dennis,

Please could you have a look at the very last thread on my talk page please. Some complete random user has just posted the most unusual thread and literally accused me of saying something that I haven't even said. And not only that their comments looks like a racial attack of some sorts. Thanks buddy Wesley Mouse 13:20, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, ignore that request. I've decided to politely ask the user if they have got me mixed up with someone else, despite the fact that I've been called an "anti-Semitic" - whatever one of them are. Wesley Mouse 13:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

On second thoughts, the racial remarks have continued despite my polite post to see if they had got me confused with someone else. It would seem that I am an anti-Semitic (which apparently means I hate Jewish people after I checked up on it) even though I have never stated such a thing. And now I've apparently demanded that the word Jerusalem gets deleted as Israel's capital, and that I am a Palestinian supporter. Where do people get these ideas from is beyond me lol. How are you anyway? Wesley Mouse 14:05, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I've pinged your page, and left them a clear final warning on their talk page. I suggest ignoring them. If they make another actual personal attack, I will block them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that Dennis. I have left a quick note for you on my page, but will repeat here just in case. I'm off out shortly on yet another Olympic shift - working in the stadium this evening from 17:00 - 02:00 (UK time) - yikes! You might want to keep an eye on my talk page though just in case more attacks get posted while I'm gone. Wesley Mouse 14:23, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Drmies (talk) 13:46, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• I've just protected the article. Being a rather mainstream and I assume high traffic article that should be taken to GA status if it isn't, my threshold is a bit lower for protecting. After seeing the rash of reverts, I think this is better than tempting fate for someone to get blocked. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:02, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Quick question

Hi. I am concerned about the CSD policy. Regarding this CSD notice on the category Category:Fictional Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff placed on the category, I think that the rationale has no valid criteria. Can you please let me know what is the appropriate way to deal with the situation? Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:32, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• CSD isn't my strongest suit, so I would strongly suggest you present your case on the talk page of the cat, and invite any reviewing admin to discuss or explain, and if the criteria or rationale isn't valid, it won't get deleted. I believe that empty categories are a valid reason to delete, btw, although the wording on that one is a bit odd. Regardless, I don't see the nom itself as problematic, seems to be in good faith, I'm just not sure how accurate it fits the situation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:38, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Niemti replaced the category on the Percy Fitzwallace article with a new one, Category:Fictional American military personnel before placing the CSD tag on the Fictional Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff category. Would that make sense? Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:48, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Since he was in a category with only one person in it, that category is basically useless. Now that it is in a more general category, you can at least find fictional characters that are at least mildly related in some way (ie: military), so it looks like an improvement. It could be argued one way or the other, but it looks to be in good faith on the surface, since it is more usable that way. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:17, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
      • All right. I've already retagged it under WP:CSD#C1 criteria. Thanks for the information, Dennis. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
        • No problem, I'm always willing to offer an opinion. I completely understand the concern, and think it was wise to get an opinion before jumping to conclusions. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:23, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Friendly request for Re-Userfication

If you could please move Dolchamar back to userspace. As evidenced on the talk page, the editor who's userspace it was moved out of was not ready for it to be in article space. I think this qualifies as a self userfication request. If you don't feel comfortable we can go around the AfD process wheel to get it re-placed. Thank you. Hasteur (talk) 18:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• Done. Since it has been deleted a few times, might be good to get an admin to move it to wikispace once it is time, to make sure it passes the bar a bit and isn't so likely to get slammed into AFD. Most any admin should be willing to look and do that. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I didn't move it to article space, I just caught it in New Pages Feed and saw that someone besides the editor whose userspace it was moved it to article space. Hasteur (talk) 20:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I saw that it wasn't you. You might make a note on the talk page to this effect, that they can ask an admin once ready. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Question

Hi, Dennis. Despite the apparent unbanning/unblocking of HanzoHattori/Niemti, he has seemingly engaged in disruptive behavior again by being incivil, personally attacking other users and disrupting Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point on talk pages, such as the Square Enix WikiProject, Yuna and at the Video Games WikiProject (, , , , , ). It seems that his behavior is most likely the very same thing that got him banned way back in 2008. Since we don't want to cause too much drama, can you please tell me what is the best possible solution to deal with this user? Thanks, Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:28, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• A good start was bringing to an admin first, which you did here. Let me take a look. I would also suggest dropping a neutral note at the talk page for the unblocking admin, User:Ched Davis (and maybe his alt account User:Chedzilla), pointing him here, since this is likely the most neutral place to discuss it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:36, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I've notified Ched at User talk:Ched Davis#Discussion. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• First, thank you for including me in this. Although I haven't felt the desire to edit here much in recent days, I have spot-checked the editors contribs once or twice a day since the unblock. So far it has appeared to me that they are attempting to constructively improve the quality of articles, and are engaging in discussion on the talk pages. I saw an unclosed 12-hour ban discussion 4 years ago - the AN or AN/I thread - and looked at their contribs. I didn't see any "attacks" from the (current) editor, I didn't see a consensus to keep him "banned" from Misplaced Pages, I didn't see the diffs to any "disruption". I spoke with the blocking admin, and with his permission - I made a judgment call to give him/her a chance.

I've looked at the 6 diffs above, and I'm still not seeing anything more than frank discussion about how to improve articles. I also understand that "wiki" is not a forgiving atmosphere, so once an editor has suffered through a "block or ban" of any kind .. then they will forever be held on a much shorter leash than others. (maintaining a "forever" history has a habit of breeding that kind of atmosphere). Personally I think it would show good form to let him/her have their own say here as well.

Now, since my judgment has been called into question on the whole matter, I'm content to consider myself "involved" at this point, and let others handle the situation. I fully admit that I'm much more a "let people in" (that silly second sentence on our main page "the 💕 that anyone can edit." and all.) Yes, there are times when people need to be blocked, and I have done so when needed. I don't see a blatant problem at this point, but concede that I may no longer be objective. So in summary: Thank you very much for including me, and/but I'm content to let others handle it from here. — Ched :  ?  21:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• • What I am seeing here isn't a violation of policy, although it isn't encouraging either. If I am truly objective and I didn't know the editor had been banned, I wouldn't enforce any sanction on them, although I might be inclined to keep an eye out and make sure there wasn't a darker side. It is give and take Wiki-ism, and these diffs are more take than give, although I assume they are justifiably cherry picked to be examples of the concern, which is perfectly valid. Since Ched is removing himself as being involved (and technically, I'm a bit involved since I was quite public in opposing his unblocking) it might be good to have a more objective pair of eyes monitor him as well. I completely understand your concerns, but at the same time we have to be as objective and fair as we can, so a bias doesn't drag someone to ANI prematurely. I may ask someone without any involvement to just monitor.

• • And to Ched, I didn't question your judgement (actually, I supported you even though I disagreed with your decision) and I asked to bring you here simply since I assumed you knew a little more about him, and figured you would want to be in the loop. I'm also on the more generous side when it comes to blocks (and a firm believer in the appropriate use of IAR to break an impasse), even if we didn't agree on the specific procedure in this one event. I hope you know I have no negative feelings on this whatsoever. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:44, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• OH .. no, ... I didn't mean you Dennis. And one point I should also make .. the original block/ban WAS fully justified. — Ched :  ?  21:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• That is good. I make allowances for a wide variety of differing opinions in my admining, and I want to both address the concerns here (which I share in part, to be honest) and also be completely fair to the editor. I've pinged Berean Hunter and asked him to monitor the situation. I nom'ed him for RfA recently, and he was unanimously supported due to his fair nature. He is the best person I can think of, Wiki-wide, to monitor and be fair here. I'm hoping and expecting he will do so. It is a delicate situation, to be sure, and this is the best way I can think of to strike a balance. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• I've seen his work .. very impressive. — Ched :  ?  22:04, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• Chad, thanks for your comments, and as Dennis said, I only brought you here because of his suggestion. And to Dennis, I think it will be interesting to have Berean Hunter monitor the situation, as he is a trusted editor and an administrator. Thanks. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:19, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Further discussion

Dennis, I have provided some additional evidence with regards to the styles by HanzoHattori/Niemti: the SPI archive, as well as this behavioral evidence. Would those be acceptable? By the way, I've never had any interaction with this user before February. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:12, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• Berean Hunter hasn't been around in two days, but I know he will soon. I recommend bringing to his attention as well, since he is an SPI clerk as well, then he and I can view the evidence. I'm hesitant to do any deep investigations tonight, but will look at it later. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Very well, then. Notified him of this matter. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, an involved user has posted an opinion on the matter on Berean Hunter's talk page. What suggestions do you have about this? Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:35, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Patience is always your friend, I'm still waiting for Berean. :) And on an unrelated note, the talk page notes about SPI cases aren't really necessary. We are all on IRC and have a bot that updates us every single time anyone edits any SPI page or creates a new case. This is how we are often able to jump on a case instantly. I'm taking a bit of a break tonight from it, because I have something else here in the real world going on, and don't like to jump in when I'm distracted. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
      • All right. I was concerned about that in Hanzo's defense, My very best wishes (talk · contribs) said that Hanzo was "not a vandal" and suggested that I would leave him alone, but I want to get a more swifter resolution. It was actually Hanzo's personal attacks that got him blocked. Since Hanzo is still technically banned, I had to restore this notice. However, we have to just wait patiently for Berean to respond to this situation and offer ideas, that's all. :) Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:47, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
      • By the way, due to my unintended disruption on the banned user pages, I had to apologize for an unintentional personal attack. There is currently a discussion whether the List of banned users should be edited by non-administrators or not. Please see Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#Non-admin_edits_to_Wikipedia:List_of_banned_users. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
        • Yes, I've not been paying much attention. Probably not a good page for a non-admin to edit only because of the potential ramifications of an improper addition. Again, we need to just wait, I really am distracted here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:44, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
          • Okay then. As I don't wish to get blocked a second time for violating the enforced policy on no personal attacks (I was blocked in September 2010 for edit warring), I admit that what I did was a minor mistake, and since I am fully aware of the policy, I would never attack anyone (including banned users, since everyone do not want to take advantage of banned users). I am usually a civil person by nature and I know better than that. I agree that we should just wait for Berean to respond. Thanks, Dennis. :-) Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Mr. Darth Sjones23: Are you sure you've "disengaged" from me "100%", as you have declared few days ago? Also, are you sure you're not stalking me around? Becuase I'm under an impression that you're watching my every move everywhere. And if you actually are, may you tell why, and how does it fit with your claimed "disengagement", and is this a harrasment or not? --Niemti (talk) 21:28, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Niemti, please stay cool, be civil and assume good faith. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Haha, good faith with this. Also, how did you "forget" to inform me once again of how you're continously trying to get me banned in how many exactly different threads, all while "disengaging 100%"? Maybe YOU should "assume good faith", and then "disengage 101%" (but this time for real, and not just pretending). --Niemti (talk) 21:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

And you failed to answer my questions, like why did you (falsely) claim to "disengage 100%", and is your continous stalking of me constituting of anything they talk about at Misplaced Pages:Harassment? --Niemti (talk) 21:47, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

And more to the point: I believe Mr. Darth Sjones23 is actively engaging in what they call "Wikihounding". I may be wrong, but that's my impression, and I don't like it at all. Thus, I'd like to officially request that someone enforces Mr. Darth Sjones23's own declaration of "100% disengagement" toward me from now on, because apparently he can not control himself on that matter (if he has officially changed his mind on that, and has declared anywhere that is now "0% disenagagement", I wasn't informed on it, which would be just like he failed to inform about almost any of these multiple threads that he has opened in relation to me - including this very one, and despite it going on for a few days already). Thank you. --Niemti (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I have already changed my mind about the 100% disengaging with the user in the above comments. Dennis, I always maintain good faith. As I don't want to get into another fight with HanzoHattori/Niemti, I am not going to respond to this user's comments or accusations, which I believe that they are unfounded or possibly pointy, anymore. While remaining civil and assume good faith, I am waiting patiently until I have heard from Berean Hunter or you and see what you think about this situation. Would that be okay? Thanks, Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:18, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh. So, how much are you "always maintaining good faith" towards me? On your scale of 0-100%. And just how many of these different threads you've opened so far? You might give me the (rough) number, and as many links as possible, as you've "forgot" to do it with every but one of them. Now, what is "this situation" about? --Niemti (talk) 22:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

And of course, almost-never informing me about anything (but informing others - those who would possibly help you, which is incidentally the only way I even get notice about these threads, because unlike you I'm not into watching people's edits) is sure a good way to not "get into another fight", as I won't be there, to defend myself from you. It's almost as good as actually not opening multiple threads about nothing, one after another (and how many already?). --Niemti (talk) 22:55, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you two done? I mean, I don't want to interrupt anything here on my talk page if you two are busy, since this seems to be so very productive. Otherwise, I've asked an impartial admin to look at the situation. So if you are done, why don't you two just avoid each other, and perhaps this talk page for a bit. I've been rather busy, and so has Berean Hunter, who I've asked to review the situation, but who also has other things going on. Nothing here is so urgent it can't wait a day, and I've been watching this pissing match all day. So both of you kindly stop replying here for a day, even to me, and give it a rest. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:20, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• I've replied here.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 13:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Catcreekcitycouncil

Doesn't appear to be done quite yet. See Special:Contributions/Puppeteerman who exhibited the same auto-confirmed seeking behavior and edited the SPI about them. Shadowjams (talk) 03:53, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• New account that took 12 minutes to get autoconfirmed, but Tiptoety nailed them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:08, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Unsurprising

I'm sure you're probably watching, but 86.29.147.215 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is a bit of obvious block evasion. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 14:06, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yup. And this is why I don't put notifications of SPI on users talk pages, because it always causes more problems than it solves. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:07, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• I thought it only fair to notify Fergus since it's a first time accusation, I didn't bother notifying the IP as I consider one notification enough normally. It's only repeat offenders like Marquis I don't bother notifying as they know they are socks, plus you can end with up with hilarious consequences like a sock turning up at an SPI they were never notified about. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 14:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• That is one of the reasons I don't prefer notifying or talking about it off venue under most circumstances, for if the show up, it tells me something. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:14, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• 86.23.124.57 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is at it now... 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 14:54, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• block and semi'ed the page. Couldn't connect the dots in spi. It is possible, but not a sure thing as there are other possibilities that are just as likely. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:57, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Reasonable enough thanks. Those types of cases are always difficult because checkusers won't comment on IPs other than in exceptional circumstances, and there wasn't a long history of editing from the IP to connect like you can get in other cases. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 14:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• Exactly. And I think I've taken enough other steps to make it moot, as even the talk page is semi-protected for a couple of days. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:02, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• Were you planning on blocking the IP above, since his cancerous rants are spreading to other places now? 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 15:54, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• I had blocked him for 30 minutes, since he just cycles through, but he waited it out. He will keep cycling, so protection is going to be the solution here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:02, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• 86.29.184.68 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) would seem to be him back again, obviously semi-protection might be the better option if you agree it's him? 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 18:28, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I've protected. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Why? 86.29.184.68 (talk) 19:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Because I could have instantly blocked you for 2RR on a "Troubles" related article (see talk page of that article and read) but I was feeling generous and decided to use a less destructive method to protect the integrity of the article, the ultimate goal. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:12, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Due to the actions of Hackney, Mo, Domer, OldJacobite and others, coupled with inappropriate restrictions such as 1RR, Troubles articles have no integrity whatsoever. They are used as a method to push an Irish republican POV, and as such, they (the articles) are both useless and a disgrace to this encyclopedia. You and other admins would do well to address this matter rather than tinkering around the edges with pointless blocks, protections and other restrictions. On the article in question the word "incursion" is, apart from being plain wrong, POV at its worst. Guess what? I've never set foot in Northern Ireland and have no allegience to either side in their petty and ugly dispute. I do, however, know system gaming when I see it, and I see it big time with this republican cabal. 86.29.184.68 (talk) 19:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

A follow up on Bwilkins

Please see User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#A_follow_up_on_Bwilkins. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Fairness is an aspect of our Civility pillar, if you ever feel the need to quote what policy is behind being fair to each other. -- Avanu (talk) 16:38, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• I know, but rather than point to a specific page where it is defined via Misplaced Pages standards, I would rather each person use their own sense of fairness, which should be enough to demonstrate that we need to back off of him. I don't think people are trying to be mean or in bad faith, but it simply isn't a good idea and we need to give him a fair chance to take a break and learn from past mistakes. Having Jimmy call him out was a bigger punishment than you might realize, and we all need to be sensitive enough to not throw salt in the wound, which may actually backfire anyway. And keep in mind, I'm very active trying to get new ways to deal with admin sanctions via WP:RAS, and this demands that everyone is treated fairly, admins and not. Equality is a two way street. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

In my comment there, I asked them to end the thread, which doesn't seem to be helping anyone. -- Avanu (talk) 16:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I know, and honestly, I understand the frustration of the community here. I'm hoping my blunt but (I think) fair assessment of the situation will end it. It is fine if people don't like him, but the idea of fairness is that you hold everyone to the same standard, friend or foe. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:52, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Tree

Can you restore Tree move-protection (sysop). I think it was removed by mistake. Thank you. Tbhotch. Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 17:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

•  Done That was my mistake. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:17, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thank you. Tbhotch. Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 19:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Wnnse Restarted

Hey Dennis, i thought to inform you about Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Wnnse which i have restarted in light of discovering a new sockpuppet. I have given all the information and details on the sockpuppet investigations page. I think you should have look at it. Thanks! TheGeneralUser (talk) 21:47, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

• Quack if I ever saw one. Don't want to give up why, which would help them, but a pretty obvious case. Asking for a sleeper check to see what other accounts are hanging around. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

You know Dennis, i was doing random patrolling and going through this sockpuppet investigation for a check on things when i found about this extensive socking a few hours ago. And since then i had started to collect the details and evidence, tagged the IP's and then filed the report. Pretty much kind of hard work for me . Now seeing that it's endorsed now (thanks to you :D), it won't be long when CheckUser finds out everything! TheGeneralUser (talk) 22:25, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I didn't need the CU to block, just to find his little pretend friends. And yes, SPI work is not exciting work, but necessary stuff. I've definitely learned how to pour through histories and contribs a lot faster in the last few months. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:27, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

New sockpuppet

User:StrongDraught Puffin 12:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• Got him. Link me the spi case when you can, I have a dozen cases going at the same time ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Can you block the IP of the sockmaster so that they cant create any more accounts(socks?)..seriously..we are tired of rollbacking! ;) TheStrikeΣagle 13:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• • Only CU can, I have no idea what his IP is, that is why I asked for a CU to look at it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Notification of RFC/U concerning Youreallycan

I'd like to notify you that I've initiated a Request for Comments/User concerning Youreallycan (talk · contribs), whom you formerly mentors. The RFC/U, which mentions your mentorship and quotes your comments about the user's conduct, can be read at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Youreallycan. Prioryman (talk) 14:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Ahem!

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:SkepticAnonymous

If anyone else can't see the corruption involved in the abusive admin whose act is under scrutiny closing this discussion, I certainly can. This pretty much proved the case made by another person that administrators are not acting in a fair or impartial manner. Belchfire also created an abusive SPI fishing expedition against Still-24-45-42-125, the user who stood up for the abused user first in this matter. What we have here is a user who stepped out of line because they were seriously provoked, and who instead of finding a kind and leading hand found a group of thugs who wanted to find someone to beat down. Wholeheartedly disagree with the length of the block, wholeheartedly disagree with the complete lack of scrutiny to the misbehavior of Belchfire and his friend Lionelt, wholeheartedly disagree with the dismissive attitude of admins who are far too willing to let abusive personalities play wikigames and get away with it. That's the truth and I stick by it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.84.153 (talk) 15:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• Then file at ArbCom. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Note that the IP was blocked, it appears to be evading some block. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:54, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - I think it was a checkuser block in this case. Hope this helps. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:45, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I had already been talking with them on IRC, determined who it was via a /whois, and had delayed blocking while sincerely listening to their perspective. They chose to be militant in their viewpoint after a promising start. It is a shame, since I actually empathize with the LGBT perspective on the issue, so SkepticAnonymous ends up shooting themselves in the foot since they have no self-restraint and removes any chance that I can actually help them. Once people jump on a soapbox and start professing "The Truth®", there is little hope. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 10:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikiquette issue

Hey Dennis. You recently approved a checkuser investigation for Still-24-45-42-125. That isn't the primary reason for my informing you hear, but issues between he, Lionelt, and some other editors have been spilling all over the various available noticeboards. I'm slightly involved, so I'm hoping you can come in with your clear head and propose a solution with a long term goal to keep all three editors editing in a manner that isn't disruptive, and not blocked. Ryan Vesey 19:51, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

By the way, I apologize for bringing yet another one of these issues to you and the discussion is Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette assistance#It feels like a pile-on. Ryan Vesey 19:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

After watching it actually pile on, I've tried to add a word or two, although there is no simple solution here. I've been very involved with block socks on this topic. I actually empathize with their perspective, but there there is a right and wrong way to go about things, and I'm not sure how effective I can be with just a few words, but I've tried. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 10:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Mail...

TheSpecialUser  12:11, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Will ask after 2 weeks :) TheSpecialUser  15:27, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Acorn of Appreciation

Thanks for protecting Tree. Ents like it when admins protect trees. Nobody Ent 21:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

• Just doing my job so we can all breath easier. And of course, thank you for taking the time and spreading a little kindness my way. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:26, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Response to personal attacks

Hello, Dennis Brown

We work on an image before, remember? So, people from Misplaced Pages Feedback (User:Riley Huntley and User:Vincent Liu) have told me that if I feel I am being personally attacked, I must contact an administrator. Now, unless I am very much mistaken, this is a personal attack by a person who edits disruptively in Windows 8 article.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 06:48, 7 August 2012 (UTC)