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Talk:Elizabeth of Austria (1436–1505): Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 01:33, 30 April 2006 editDr. Dan (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers8,342 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit Revision as of 15:23, 1 May 2006 edit undoNightstallion (talk | contribs)Administrators96,502 editsNo edit summaryNext edit →
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{{move|Elisabeth of Austria (1437–1505)}}
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <font color="red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

{{{result|The result of the debate was}}} '''move'''. &mdash;]<font color="green">]</font>] ] <sup>]</sup> 15:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


I know I'm probably not making myself very popular with Polish-speaking users, however I think this article needs to be in the English form since this is the English Misplaced Pages. Shouldn't this article be titled under "Elisabeth of Austria (1437–1505)", similar to the other ]s? "Elzbieta Rakuszanka" is Polish which translates as "Elisabeth of Austria" as stated in the article itself. ] 20:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC) I know I'm probably not making myself very popular with Polish-speaking users, however I think this article needs to be in the English form since this is the English Misplaced Pages. Shouldn't this article be titled under "Elisabeth of Austria (1437–1505)", similar to the other ]s? "Elzbieta Rakuszanka" is Polish which translates as "Elisabeth of Austria" as stated in the article itself. ] 20:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
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:::::I forgot to sign my comment. "Of Austria" for Habsburgs is not original research. Once the Habsburgs acquired Austria, all became dukes and then archdukes of Austria. Elisabeth was a duchess of Austria, even though the title of archduke had been assumed. Alfonso XIII is "de Borbon y de Habsburgo-Lorena" because those are house names. He wouldn't be "of Austria" unless he was "de España y de Austria". It is true though: All members of the House of Habsburg at the time were "of Austria". Even the article states she was "of Austria" as well as other territories. ] 23:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC) :::::I forgot to sign my comment. "Of Austria" for Habsburgs is not original research. Once the Habsburgs acquired Austria, all became dukes and then archdukes of Austria. Elisabeth was a duchess of Austria, even though the title of archduke had been assumed. Alfonso XIII is "de Borbon y de Habsburgo-Lorena" because those are house names. He wouldn't be "of Austria" unless he was "de España y de Austria". It is true though: All members of the House of Habsburg at the time were "of Austria". Even the article states she was "of Austria" as well as other territories. ] 23:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color="red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

Revision as of 15:23, 1 May 2006

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 15:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I know I'm probably not making myself very popular with Polish-speaking users, however I think this article needs to be in the English form since this is the English Misplaced Pages. Shouldn't this article be titled under "Elisabeth of Austria (1437–1505)", similar to the other Elisabeth of Austrias? "Elzbieta Rakuszanka" is Polish which translates as "Elisabeth of Austria" as stated in the article itself. Gryffindor 20:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Good move, and Hapsburg isn't a bad suggestion either. Dr. Dan 01:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment- The unfortunate consequence of this relentless and nonsensical attempt to "edit" the English Misplaced Pages with non English names and geographical locations, will ultimately end with a backlash against these editors. What's more unfortunate, is when the smoke clears and all of this is revised, lots of relevant and good editing that should be in Polish (even with diacritics), will be removed. Elżbieta Rakuszanka doesn't cut it. We can't say she lived in Polska and that she and her mąż, Kazimierz, liked rosół z kury for obiad, and expect this to stay in the English Misplaced Pages. Wake up out there. Dr. Dan 00:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Her birth year is not a confirmed piece of infirmation. Various sources tend to give 1435 or 1436. Quite usual for that era - some dates are just approximations. Therefore, absolutely unacceptable to use any birth year in the title. The RM proposal is built upon faulty information, and should not be approved. Moreover, I faced some sources that use "Elisabeth of Habsburg", thus the "of Austria" may just be an invention here. It is quite clear that it cannot be accepted just as a translation from "Rakuszanka" - as Polish words directly translated may lead to erroneous titles in English. Habsburg seems to have additional support from the fact that German WP has titled her as "Elisabeth von Habsburg" (Österreich nowhere even near there). The whole "vote" above should be discarded, as WP needs knowledgeable/ expertised people first to find what actually is her name in trustworthy English texts. Shilkanni 20:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

German WP has little or no relevance on matters concerning English WP. German Misplaced Pages has little to no consistency with the naming of royals. Charles 20:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I notice that you have no rebuttal for the other arguments. Unusual. Thanks. Shilkanni 21:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Austria is not an invention as all members of the House of Habsburg were "of Austria" (Anne of Austria, Queen of France, is almost never called Anne of Habsburg or even Anne of Spain, for instance). Such is so important that they are sometimes called the House of Austria. German WP cannot be cited as support for a name in English *if* German WP is inconsistent with royal names and doesn't follow English WP naming conventions. Charles 23:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign)
Thank you, anonymous, for your comment. However, it seems that no one has evidence that she actually is called "of Austria" in relevant English literature. Your examples are from much later eras. Besides, contrarily, those ladies of Austria actually were called "of Habsburg" also in later generations. For example, Alfonso XIII is documented as of "de Borbon y de Habsburgo-Lorena" (see relevant article), which says something about his mother's designation. Besides, a postulation that ALL are called "of Austria" on basis of editors' own conclusions, is close to so-called Original Research. Shilkanni 21:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I forgot to sign my comment. "Of Austria" for Habsburgs is not original research. Once the Habsburgs acquired Austria, all became dukes and then archdukes of Austria. Elisabeth was a duchess of Austria, even though the title of archduke had been assumed. Alfonso XIII is "de Borbon y de Habsburgo-Lorena" because those are house names. He wouldn't be "of Austria" unless he was "de España y de Austria". It is true though: All members of the House of Habsburg at the time were "of Austria". Even the article states she was "of Austria" as well as other territories. Charles 23:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.