Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:13, 22 August 2012

To help centralize discussions and keep related topics together, all WikiProject Conservatism talk pages redirect here, except for The Right Stuff.

This page was nominated for deletion on 7 October 2011. The result of the discussion was keep.

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This project does not extol any point of view, political or otherwise, other than that of a neutral documentarian.

view · edit Frequently asked questions Q: An article was erroneously tagged by a member of this project. A: Do not remove the banner. Ask the member why they tagged it, or post a message at the project talk page (below). Note: the banner does not imply that the subject has a conservative or right-wing ideology, has no relevance to neutral POV, nor that WikiProject Conservatism owns the article. Q: I'm a member and the banner I added to an article talk page was removed. A: From PROGGUIDE: You may not force them to remove the banner. No editor may prohibit a group of editors from showing their interest in an article. This warning {{WPRYT Uw-banner}} can be used to notify an editor of the guideline. Q: Can non-members tag articles? A: Yes, but if a member removes the banner do not replace it. Q: The quality or importance rating of an article is incorrect. A: Anyone can change the rating. Make sure to consult the assessment scale here. Ratings are subjective, importance ratings in particular can be controversial. Disputes will be resolved by project members at the project talk page (below). Q: What is the scope of this WikiProject? A: As stated on the main page of this project, we are dedicated to improving articles related to conservatism, not limited to any particular form or national variety of conservatism. ^ WikiProject Council/Guide WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ WikiProject Council/Guide/WikiProject

To-do list for WP:WikiProject Conservatism: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2024-09-19 Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Articles needing immediate attention : 23 articles needing attention Articles needing expert attention : 0 articles needing attention Alerts : monitor Article alerts Disputes : help resolve NPOV disputes (Feature defunct) Viewpoints : review Viewpoints needed (Feature defunct) Vandalism : monitor the Vandalism Watchlist and fight vandalism! New articles : check the New articles listing and nominate for DYK Assess : add quality and importance ratings Unassessed articles report

Conservatism Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Conservatism and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

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"How right-wingers took over Misplaced Pages"

Contrary to the overwhelming consensus of the members of this wikiproject, it is the right wingers who are running this sanitarium, according to Marc McDonald. He writes, "Increasingly over the years, literally thousands of Misplaced Pages’s political articles have gradually and quietly been given a right-wing spin" and explains "the right-wing “contributors” are ferociously tenacious. They will go in and sanitize and slant an article over and over until it reads the way they want it to. These people are well-organized, ruthless and determined and they usually eventually get their way, via sheer blunt force." For evidence he offers the "sanitized" George Bush and what he describes as extremely unflattering Bill Clinton article. IMO Mr. McDonald should be blocked for fostering a WP:Battleground mentality. McDonald's ridiculous and irrational "analysis" makes fascinating reading. But the piece de resistance comes by way of the first post in the Reader Comments section (emph. mine):

You don't know the half of it. The editors at WikiProject Conservatism have teamed up with the exiles and wikihaters at Wikipediocracy to oust administrators they think are too liberal. There's an ongoing effort to purge Misplaced Pages of liberal editors and entrap them in time consuming arbitration processes. This, along with off-site coordination of editors paid through advocacy groups like the Susan B. Anthony List has been steadily eroding Misplaced Pages's ability to remain an impartial resource. --Scarb

My jaw dropped in disbelief when I read that. Maybe he should've interviewed LegitimateAndEvenCompelling, or NYYankees, or Haymaker, or any of the dozen other editors banned in the Abortion arbom case. Ironic to be sure. I'll paraphrase our VP and leave you with this 3-letter word: LMFAO. – Lionel 08:52, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

PS: WTF is "Wikipediocracy?"

Liberals tend to have a real talent for projection. This is a stunning example. Oh, and I found this: Wikipediocracy Belchfire (talk) 15:51, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

For the second time, please stop referring to critics as "liberals" as if that word was a pejorative. This isn't a battleground. Marc McDonald is absolutely correct, and given our demographic in engineering and science, our active editors are overwhelmingly conservative, with liberals in the minority. Howver, many of these so-called conservatives refer to themselves as "libertarians". The idea that "there's an ongoing effort to purge Misplaced Pages of liberal editors and entrap them in time consuming arbitration processes" has been true since I got here in 2004. Viriditas (talk) 03:28, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Viriditas, that's something of an understatement. It's not just that there's an effort to purge liberals, but that Lionelt is leading it. Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 09:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

The accusation of liberals controlling WP must be restricted to the political pages. "conservatives" editing pages on math or chemistry are not in the scope of the problem at hand of radical liberals controlling all political pages.--216.114.194.20 (talk) 16:32, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

What they are doing is freaking out that these full-time liberal propaganda editors are getting called out for who they are. Unfortunately, there are many lined up behind them to act as the judge, jury and executioner to support them through arbitration, which will ultimately be decided by yet another group of liberal WP lifers. Thus is the story of the WP socialist propaganda machine.--216.114.194.20 (talk) 16:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Be careful with classifying parties as 'conservative' in non-western contexts

Hi there. I think this is a valuable project, but I do have one concern which I've seen a few times, which is the extension of 'conservatism' to countries with political systems very different from those in America and Europe. For example, I've seen political groups in Russia tagged as part of WikiProject Conservatism - but who are the 'conservatives' in modern Russia? Those who want to restore the Soviet Union? Supporters of Putin's government? Those who support right-wing politics in general? It's not obviously clear. Likewise, in countries like Egypt or Iran - does 'conservatism' refer to supporters of the old regime, or religious conservatives, or what? Taiwanese politics is based around the division between closer and further relations with China - who are the 'conservatives' there?

All I'm asking for a little restraint in tagging people and groups as part of this project. Not every country has a political system like that of the United States, and not every political system has a faction that corresponds to what we think of as 'conservatism'. I'm not saying this template can't be used to tag groups outside of the US and Europe, but think carefully before you do. Robofish (talk) 15:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Conservatism can be defined as contextual, in which case every country has conservatives. Or it can be defined as an ideology with specific principles, in which case it is limited to Western Europe and countries that have copied European conservatism. Specifically they are parties that developed out of a royalist or aristocratic reaction to liberalism. I believe though that both Putin's party and the KMT consider themselves conservatives. However I see no reason to include liberal, religious, post-communist, nationalist or other parties that do not consider themselves conservatives. TFD (talk) 13:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Your beliefs are errant. Putin does not call himself "conservative" nor did the KMT call itself "conservative". They are both "nationalist". That does not make either example "conservative." All of which misses the point - any project "interested" in an article is free, on Misplaced Pages, to tag that article as being one of interest to that project. It does not make the subject of the article "conservative" as in this case. And such a tag can be discussed here, and is subject to consensus here. Collect (talk) 14:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

"At its most recent national convention in St. Petersburg in November 2009, Vladimir Putin's United Russia described itself again as a conservative party. Officially, it stands for the country's heritage and its values." See the Greenwood History of China entry for the KMT: "politically conservative". TFD (talk) 15:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Your "conservative Putin" nationalised some industries. Not "conservative" AFAICT, except as you note in being nationalist. Which I already accepted. The KMT is now labelled "conservative" mainly in its stance on nationalism also. Again - I said that already. calls the KMT "centre-right" which is a very broad area. The Economist says the KMT had a substantial shift in 2001 to reunificationism, which is unlikely to be viewed as "conservative." In short, Houston, we have a problem in trying to use "political spectrums" as contant in any sense of the word. Collect (talk) 19:10, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I am having difficulty following your criteria for inclusion. You vote to include the liberal National Party of Honduras and the right-wing extremist Swiss People's Party because someone once called them that, yet exclude other parties. Actually nationalization of industry can be conservative, Bismarck nationalized industry. TFD (talk) 19:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I have no "criteria for inclusion." I have made no such "votes." I suggest that inclusion is entirely up to the people here, using WP:CONSENSUS and nothing more. I assert nothing about what I "know" to be the "truth" - I suggest that the way Wikiprojects work is by doing what CONSENSUS dictates, not by me giving some sily "criteria" which I would impose on this project. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:12, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Consensus only comes about after editors requested something be included/excluded. Are you saying that you have no criteria for requesting inclusion/exclusion before consensus is reached? Or do you have criteria for your decisions? TFD (talk) 17:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

You claimed I have made "votes" here to include some particular party. I assert that my position has been, and remains, that it is up to WP:CONSENSUS and not any "votes" as to what should be part of the project and what should not be part of the project. Is there some actual reason for your iterated queries here? Collect (talk) 20:48, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

RfC on Vietnamese diacritics

• RfC: Should the spelling of Vietnamese names follow the general usage of English-language reliable sources? Examples: Ngo Dinh Diem, Ho Chi Minh, and Saigon, or Ngô Đình Diệm, Hồ Chí Minh, and Sài Gòn. The RfC is here. Kauffner (talk) 09:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Ronald Reagan filmography needs reviewers

This is a really cool list with lots of cool info about Reagan. Did you know "Throughout his film career, his mother often answered much of his fan mail"? You can help get this to Featured List by clicking here. – Lionel 10:57, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Help with Bob Corker article

Hello, I work on Bob Corker's campaign and I'm looking for help in improving weaker areas of his Misplaced Pages article. Currently there is little information about his tenure as Mayor of Chattanooga. I have proposed a few paragraphs on the article's discussion page that I think could work in the article under the heading about his mayorship. Here is the link to that request: Talk:Bob_Corker#Information_to_add_to_Mayor_of_Chattanooga Since there have not been any replies yet I've come here to see if anyone can help. Please see my message on the discussion page for more details. Thanks. Mark from tn (talk) 17:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

List of Tea Party politicians again

There's an ongoing discussion at Talk:List of Tea Party politicians#List needs scrubbing that could do with broader input. Thanks in advance! – Arms & Hearts (talk) 23:59, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Roanoke, Virginia Obama speech

You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Barack Obama#. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:43, 6 August 2012 (UTC)Template:Z48

More opportunities for editors to access free research databases!

The quest for getting Misplaced Pages editors the sources they need for articles related to conservatism and other subjects is gaining momentum. Here's what's happening and what you can sign up for right now:

• Credo Reference provides full-text online versions of nearly 1200 published reference works from more than 70 publishers in every major subject, including general and subject dictionaries and encyclopedias. There are 125 full Credo 350 accounts available, with access even to 100 more references works than in Credo's original donation. All you need is a 1-year old account with 1000 edits. Sign up here.
• HighBeam Research has access to over 80 million articles from 6,500 publications including newspapers, magazines, academic journals, newswires, trade magazines and encyclopedias. Thousands of new articles are added daily, and archives date back over 25 years covering a wide range of subjects and industries. There are 250 full access 1-year accounts available. All you need is a 1-year old account with 1000 edits. Sign up here.
• Questia is an online research library for books and journal articles focusing on the humanities and social sciences. Questia has curated titles from over 300 trusted publishers including 77,000 full-text books and 4 million journal, magazine, and newspaper articles, as well as encyclopedia entries. There will soon be 1000 full access 1-year accounts available. All you need is a 1-year old account with 1000 edits. Sign up here.

In addition to these great partnerships, you might be interested in the next-generation idea to create a central Misplaced Pages Library where approved editors would have access to all participating resource donors. It's still in the preliminary stages, but if you like the idea, add your feedback to the Community Fellowship proposal to start developing the project. Drop by the talk page of User:Ocaasi, who is overseeing these projects, if you have any questions.--JayJasper (talk) 17:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

500,000 jobs lost under Bush administration?

Can anyone confirm that the US lost 500,000 private sector jobs under Bush? Should this be added to the encyclopedia article on the Bush admin? Viriditas (talk) 03:18, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Er, we lost 3.5 million jobs in the last six months of the Bush Administration alone. And another 3.4 million in the first 6 months of the Obama Administration (whether this was a result of Obama's immediate implementation of "job-killing" policies or a continuation of the economic catastrophe that was the Bush Administration depends on your perspective, I suppose). The economy began adding jobs in October 2010, and has steadily added jobs since (source). MastCell  06:04, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

The content best belongs to the event 2007–2009 recession in the United States. If one president is mentioned, both should be mentioned, as well as a mention of continued over 8% unemployment (U-3) since, and the wider (and larger) U-6 rate (closer to the traditional way of figuring unemployment); sources: CNBC, WSJ, & BLS.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:09, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

The unemployment rate is 8.3%. – Sir Lionel, EG 06:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

No, if the source(s) links it to Bush, only Bush should be mentioned. IRWolfie- (talk) 09:32, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Do they? Do they not also say, as mentioned above, of the increased job loss at the beginning of the Obama administration, and the continued high unemployment during the present administration? These are both factual.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 07:14, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Paul Ryan needs our help!!!

Just when you thought there was nothing for WPRight members to do this election season, David Axelrod says that Ryan is a "certifiable right-wing ideologue." LOL. Colleagues, the 2012 campaign has taken a decidedly sharp turn to the right and it's time for us to get off of our asses. Did you know that Obama's article is FA? And Biden and Mitt are GA? Guess what Paul's article is... C!!! Yikes. Who wants to plaster a shiny green plus on their userpages? It's time for a collaboration!!!– Sir Lionel, EG 07:12, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Sign here for Paul Ryan GA Team

1. – Sir Lionel, EG 07:12, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
2. Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 09:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
3. IRWolfie- (talk) 09:41, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
4. Never tried to improve a BLP to GA-status but hopefully I can help out. Toa Nidhiki05 16:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Proper understanding of "help"

Improving the page is an excellent goal, and I don't mean to find fault with that. However, what David Axelrod said has nothing to do with it, nor is any implied intention to argue against what Axelrod said. In fact, depending upon how the sourcing lines up, it might even be appropriate to quote and cite Axelrod's statement, so long as it isn't given undue weight. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages editing of Paul Ryan reported in the media

• "Paul Ryan, 'Brown Noser'? The Misplaced Pages Edit Wars Begin for Romney's Running Mate", August 11, The Atlantic
• "The Paul Ryan Misplaced Pages edits begin", August 11, Politico

Both of these stories mention this diff by User:Ccchhhrrriiisss with the summary "Removed unnecessary statement from Early Life about prom king or '"Brown Noser.' This is not needed in article is not common in such brief survey". Interesting stuff. Binksternet (talk) 15:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Members List

Where can I find the members list? Thanks in advance, ```Buster Seven Talk 02:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

You can find it in the about us tab or simply click here be sure to scroll down to find the list it is right under the Right stuff newspaper, I hope this means your joining we love new members John D. Rockerduck (talk) 02:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Planned RfC being made by User:StillStanding-247

You can find it here; evidently this user decided he wanted to file an RfC about this Project. He must have neglected to read the 'Before requesting comment' section of the Requests for Comment page, where it notes:

Before asking outside opinion here, it generally helps to simply discuss the matter on the talk page first. Whatever the disagreement, the first step in resolving a dispute is to talk to the other parties involved".

Accordingly, I doubt this will be taken seriously, but project members may be interested in watching it. Toa Nidhiki05 14:55, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• WikiProject Conservatism
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists
• Project-Class Conservatism pages
• NA-importance Conservatism pages
• WikiProject Conservatism articles