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Challenge/Ramsdens Cup.

Why are you changing the Ramsdens Cup to Challenge Cup. That is the name of the competition at the moment and all last seasons and this seasons articles link to that, equally the previous year linked to ALBA Cup. I don't want to blindly revert all your edits but is against the consensus at the moment so you need to discuss something like this.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:02, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

A guy said it was in over thirty articles using this name so he pointed out the scale of the problem. Its not right to use a sponsored name for one trophy and not the other trophies the Scottish Cup is not called the William Hill Cup which its current sponsored name. Also the Football league trophy which is England's equivalent is not called the Johnstone's Paint trophy. Lets get some consistency going here.Sport and politics (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

England is irrelevant. Its a name of the trophy, William Hill Scottish Cup or Scottish Communities League Cup. However the Challenge Cup is the Ramsdens Cup or ALBA Cup no mention of the word challenge which defines it as different to the William Hill Scottish Cup. Its far more than 30 articles, at least 60 or more and its wikilinked to the challenge cup so there is nothing wrong with the way its done at the moment. And if you look at england season articles they do state Johnstone's Paint trophy but are wikilinked to the main cup. Stop and discuss it because I'm going to have to be bold and revert until you have discussed on the main page.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Also a search for Challenge Cup will mainly come up with stats or wiki articles. Alba or Ramsdens cup is the notable and common name for this competition. Where as the common name for the William Hill Scottish Cup is still the Scottish Cup.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:27, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

You appear to be missing the principle, Ramsden's is not the name on the cup, the competition has had many different sponsors. If it was actually called the Ramsdne's cup and the main article was called the Ramsden's cup, it should be called so, its not though its called the Scottish Challenge cup,. Your argument lacks logical merit. Sport and politics (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Could you also please make all your comments in one go to stop edit conflicts.Sport and politics (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

No I'm not missing the point. You changed boldly I've reverted and you discuss. And no I'm not missing the point there is a big difference between the Scottish Cup and the Ramsdens Cup, there is absolutely nothing wrong in the linking the article and piping the sponsors name or in this case the WP:Commonname. And just so you know there is no requirement to edit in one go and you can edit using as many small edits as you wish, and as there was a clear reason for me doing so there isn't a problem there.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:46, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

The principle is exactly the same also in some articles it refers to the competition differently in some article it refers to the competition as the Scottish Challenge Cup, in some it refers to the competition as Ramsden's Cup and in some it hybrids the name to the Ramsden's Challenge Cup. This goes to show there is no uniformity. The English Football League Trophy is relevant as it is never referred to in the media as the Football League Trophy but Misplaced Pages refers to the competition as the Football League trophy. You are also missing that there is confusion by using a sponsors name when it has not been the exclusive sponsor. This competition has had many sponsors so to only use a sponsors name give an impression that there are many many different competitions by virtue of the different names, to avoid this there needs to only be one mane in use. Could you also have some courtesy by not making hundreds of little edits when conversing.Sport and politics (talk) 23:53, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Hundreds of little edits, i don't think so. You cannot make that volume of edits without discussing, especially when i politely started a discussion with you and then despite that you ignore and carry on regardless. Search Ramsdens Cup, and then search Challenge cup and see what you think is the common name of this competition. You keep referring to other sponsors, the William Hill Scottish Cup isn't a common name the Scottish Cup is where as the Ramsdens Cup is the common name over Challenge Cup. As long as we link to the main article there isn't an issue here, piping is commonly used for similar reasons throughout wikipedia not just football. Ramsden's Challenge Cup and Ramsden's Cup both use the common name. Edinburgh Wanderer 00:03, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

You are claiming the "common name" is Ramsden's Cup can you prove this? The Common name in England for the equivelant competition is Johnstone's Paint Trophy yet Misplaced Pages ignore that and uses Football league trophy. Also if you have to link over the main article called something different, this demonstrates it is not the common name. If it was the common name the main article for the competition would be "Ramsdens Cup" also is the "Common name" Ramsden's Cup or Ramsden's Challenge cup. I have seen both used in article frequently. Also when I tried to respond to you I encountered continual edit conflict as you kept adding and changing what you had put.Sport and politics (talk) 00:10, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

No i changed it once and you have decided to cause drama. I suggest you read Misplaced Pages:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle which i already provided for you above and WP:Commonname. You need consensus for this change and its pretty damm easy to show common name in this case a search comparison shows the shear number of hits for Ramsdens over Challenge Cup, it is very rarely used as a term which is why when searching Challenge cup it shows mostly stat pages. I repeat one last time there is nothing wrong using piping in this case. Look at how many articles edited by how many people in order to make changed on the scale you are doing you need to discuss to gain a consensus either way. Edinburgh Wanderer 00:18, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Is it only you who is pushing this sponsored name? Are you in any way employed, or a shareholder or someone who stands to benefit by plastering this free advertising all over wikipedia against the common sense and the other precedents such as the Football League trophy.you arguments though are still lacking in logical substance.Sport and politics (talk) 00:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

No its not just me. These articles have been edited by many users, you are the only one who has changed this. Your suggestion i am employed by the Ramsdens Cup is wholly laughable, my argument on common name and clearly showing you there is a difference does not lack substance. Ive been very patient with you as you are a new editor and shown you the related policies but lets get this straight wikipedia is about consensus and when that volume of articles contains the same linking and has been edited by multiple editors and someone asks you to stop and discuss. You stop and discuss you don't keep going, You were reverted and you go through to discuss as per policy you don't then try and push your own personal opinion by reverting again especially whilst not using edit summaries. Ive been patient but you are edit warring and not discussing instead accusing someone who has been around for a long time and clearly by looking at my user page and edit history will show you very clearly i do not work for the Ramsdens Cup and since you cannot back that claim up in any way you should retract it.Edinburgh Wanderer 00:41, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

• S&P - drop it now. I know you're new here but accusing other editors of having a conflict if interest (not true btw, I know where EW works and it's not for Ramsens) is not appropriate, neither is opening a frivolous ANI thread about editors you are in conflict with, and neither is repeating any of the above. Please leave it as you are both becoming increasingly disruptive. GiantSnowman 21:50, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Please note I have already apologised for that. The ANI was not frivolous it was based on someone swearing and refering in a derogatory tone. It was not frivolous just that it fell outside of an actionable remit. Sport and politics (talk) 21:51, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Independent Olympic Athletes

Note: following edit made on behalf of User:85.167.109.186 who could not make it because of a false positive edit filter. Black Kite (talk) 19:52, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

The three additional athletes

If you check the sources, you will see that the number of IOPs adds up to seven, not four. However, if you have a source that says different, that would be great. The London 2012 site and olympic.org are both looking very unreliable as of late. Evanh2008 07:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm reverting to seven until I see a source that says four added to the article. Evanh2008 00:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

If you change the number to seven could you add in the 3 addition athletes to the linked article. Sport and politics (talk) 00:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

There was a source added to the article that the Kuwaitis were competing under their own flag. That is good enough. Smartyllama (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it's not that simple. We now have sources cited in the article that contradict each other. It is verifiable that there will be seven IOAs competing, even though three of those will probably be added to the Kuwaiti roster soon. I cannot verify that there will be only four IOAs competing, as no source that I have seen actually states that. The source which says the Kuwaitis will be competing under their own flag (which I added to the article, so please don't think I'm opposed to having that information in there) also gives the total number of Kuwaiti athletes as eleven, which still leaves one person missing even if we add the three Kuwaiti nationals listed as IOAs to the seven members of the Kuwaiti team listed by London 2012. I've added footnotes to the article now to clarify, and yes, I will go add info to the IOA article. Give me a few minutes. Evanh2008 00:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

It is verifiable by a source that admits it is outdated. We have a new source which CLEARLY indicates Kuwaitis will be competing under their own flag. There is a disclaimer on the source you are citing saying it may not be up to date. In this case, it isn't. It has not been fully updated since Kuwait was allowed to compete under their own flag. The new source I just added CLEARLY indicates Kuwait will be competing under their own flag. That's more reliable than a source that ADMITS it may not be current. Smartyllama (talk) 00:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The IOC source is outdated. It says so itself. The 11th athlete probably qualified later. We could figure out who it is if we really wanted to by looking at the qualifying lists for all the sports, but that seems like a waste. That's probably the reason, especially since the IOC source admits it's outdated. Smartyllama (talk) 00:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I've added footnotes that clarify the situation. You are correct to point out that London 2012 is very likely out of date, but we have no way to establish that. The fact is that a source stating that the Kuwaitis will be sending their own team is not the same as them stating that the three Kuwaitis listed as IOA's will be competing for that team. Unless, of course, the source specifically names those three Kuwaitis as part of the team. Unless they explicitly state that, however, we are entering WP:SYNTH territory. And that's bad. Evanh2008 00:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. But it's also bad to put out information that is "most likely" false, even if we can't verify it is. Perhaps just not report a total for now? Smartyllama (talk) 01:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Could you please move this to your own talk pages as I appear to no longer be involved in the conversation. Sport and politics (talk) 07:50, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

IOP/IOA Merge

Could you clarify your position on the IOP/IOA merge discussion? Would you, in addition to the Competing Under the Olympic Flag article, keep the original articles, such as Individual Olympic Athletes at the 2000 Summer Olympics? If so, I think we can snowball it, keep the articles, and create the new one too. If not, please state your reasons for getting rid of the original articles in addition to creating the new ones, so we can discuss. Consensus seems to be nearly unanimous for the new article, the only question is what to do with the original ones. Your stance and Wesley Mouse's stance are unclear, everyone else in the discussion says keep them. Could you please clarify? Thanks. Smartyllama (talk) 23:24, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I think the ship has sailed to merge the articles, the main article on "Competing under the Olympic Flag" will need to link out the result dump articles with brief introductory paragraphs on each. Sport and politics (talk) 23:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. Do you mind formally stating so on the talk page so we can close it out? Thanks. Smartyllama (talk) 23:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Controversies at the 2012 Summer Olympics

Regarding this edit, spokespeople (particularly public sector ones) are not named in the UK, so it would not be possible to identify them. As such, I've removed the tag. Cheers, Number 57 09:52, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

The claim you have made above is sweeping nonsense showing that there is no reading round of sources and poor verification practices on your behalf. A simple web search on the news story very speedily found the name of the spokesman. Please do not make absurdly sweeping incorrect claims. Please be more careful when removing legitimate templates that are there because necessary information is missing. Sport and politics (talk) 10:19, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'd just never seen one named before (and I'm not sure why their name matters anyway), but well done for finding it. Not sure your attitude is required though. Number 57 10:27, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

It must be the hot weather and the time of the month sorry for being a little ratty. Sport and politics (talk) 10:28, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Tit-for-tat, i imagineLihaas (talk) 20:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for Wikiqette assistance

We have discussed your attempts at removing, editing or shifting the sub-section Technologies used for Olympic sports on the talk page at some length Please be aware that I have now provided a full report here.

Be thankful I am not asking for a ban on the other section, since I find these tactics particularily abhorrent being underhand and time consuming for everyone concerned. --Andromedean (talk) 19:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Username

Not againt you, per se. But just thought id mention Misplaced Pages:Usernames_for_administrator_attention#User-reportedLihaas (talk) 20:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

My user name is based on my areas of interest and I am not really sure what your post is on about. Sport and politics (talk) 01:45, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

It suggests you could have some kind of agenda. Paul MacDermott (talk) 12:26, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Its just a name how does it suggest "an agenda". People need to be less suspicious. Sport and politics (talk) 12:27, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not saying you have, but it could be misinterpreted. Sport is often used as a political tool (check out our Politics and sports article if you haven't already done so). I'm concerned though when I'm accused of being politically biassed wby someone with a username Sport and politics (as was the case here). Paul MacDermott (talk) 12:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

You have though wholly missed the point of the article by making the suggested addition that you did. Sport and politics (talk) 12:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of whether that is the case, your reply was uncivil and did not assume good faith. If I find any similar comments elsewhere I'll be re-mentioning you at Misplaced Pages:Usernames_for_administrator_attention. Paul MacDermott (talk) 13:04, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand your obsessive nature against my user-name. Sport and politics (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Removal of comment

That removal of your comment from the talk page was by accident. My apologies. I placed it back just before you put it back. Cla68 (talk) 23:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Query

Have you edited under other account names? Nobody Ent 22:49, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

No I have not, this is my first account. Why what makes you think that this is another account. I have been editing though without an account before. I have also been doing a fair amount of reading of the ways of the principles of Misplaced Pages based on the welcome post which was put up. Sport and politics (talk) 22:53, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I too was thinking you seem to know a lot for a new user. But thats no a negative ;)(Lihaas (talk) 01:31, 31 July 2012 (UTC)).

I asked because it's unusual for new users to be active on WP:WQA and WP:ANI but I wasn't assuming either you were new or you weren't. Just asked to help frame appropriate responses, addressing experienced editors like new editors is condescending, addressing new users with excessive wiki-speak is kind of rude. Nobody Ent 01:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I understand that there seems to be a lot of WP:bite going on from the discussion and user cla68 there is also zero WP:AGF

• If nobody has pointed to it yet - see: WP:CON. If you've already read that one .. feel free to delete this post. Chedzilla (talk) 02:28, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I have also read WP:CYCLE. The user I was in dispute with has apparently read neither of those. Sport and politics (talk) 10:55, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Just be aware of the hierarchy of guidance -- BRD (cycle) is an essay whereas consensus is policy -- but WP:NOTBUREAU is a pillar ... Misplaced Pages is not really all that coherent; takes awhile to figure out how things work around here. Nobody Ent 02:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I understand that now, I have now had pointed out to me that a selective and biased interpretation which did not accurately convey and give the intent of the revert rule was used. As it was being stated that any removal of any content (except form a narrow list) more three times in 24 hours, even if it was added by different editors and was different information being removed each time, was revert warring. I have now had show to me to this was a highly selective and obstructive interpretation of revert warring. where in fact it it has been shown as being "An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions..." There was no evidence of that occurring whatsoever. Sport and politics (talk) 09:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• (also: WP:INDENT) Chedzilla (talk) 02:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Disengage

At this point it would be best for you to disengage from FF on ANI. The more back and forth between you two reviewers see the more likely a topic ban or double block is. Let the thread play out without you (enjoy real life for a while, perhaps). Nobody Ent 16:26, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I had no intention of engaging any further. FF is no longer worth my time of day in my opinion. Sport and politics (talk) 17:00, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

That's how I felt about him at the Controversies page. I think the block on him is far too short, and that the attacks on you were completely unjustified. ANI is a very sick place. Keep up the good work. HiLo48 (talk) 22:16, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

My Talk page

S&P, you probably didn't notice, but I said I didn't want any more comments in the that topic on my Talk page. So, I'm going to remove (again) your latest comment. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:20, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Fair do. I did apologise in my comment though. I also had no intention of making any further comments. Sport and politics (talk) 20:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

No worries, let's just leave it as is.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:24, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I am sure the user will fall foul in the same way as the other user did as they are behaving in a very very similar way which is very characteristic of the previous waffle to attempt to include everything and stifle opposition to including everything by going personal. The same high levels of over-opinionatedness are also present.Sport and politics (talk) 20:30, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

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August 2012

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. You appear to be engaged in an edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at Controversies at the 2012 Summer Olympics. Although repeatedly reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Misplaced Pages this is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Misplaced Pages is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block. Thank you. Electric Catfish 17:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I have requested full and long term page protection of this article to force all users to discuss. I trust you have warned the other user(s) involved as well. Sport and politics (talk) 17:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I have warned the other user, too and have commented at WP: RFPP. Full page protection would not be the best option here because the only edit warring is between you and Showmebeef (talk · contribs). I suggest that you two discuss it on the article's talk page and if that doesn't work, bring it to WP: DRN. Edit warring won't get you anything but a block. Electric Catfish 18:01, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Please not this is the second edit war and the page was previously protected for a 12 hour period. The previous edit war also involved Showmebeef. Sport and politics (talk) 18:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I see that you too have tried to discuss it on the article's talk page. I recommend that you bring it to WP: DRN (I'm a volunteer there) or WP: 3O. Best, Electric Catfish 18:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC).

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we request your participation in the discussion to help find a resolution. The thread is "Controversies at the 2012 Summer Olympics". Thank you! EarwigBot 08:07, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Wikiquette Assistance discussion

Hello, Sport and politics. This message is being sent to inform you that a discussion is taking place at Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette assistance regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Blethering Scot 19:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)