Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion
Hello, Black Kite. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic Al-Ahbash. Thank you. -- McKhan (talk)
NFCC page
I do not get how you can see a consensus. Even the editor who initially made the change to the guideline said anyone was free to revert and that a new discussion should be opened on the issue.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:12, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
- Regardless, I cannot anywhere see any consensus (or even significant opinion) that NFCC8/NFCI1 should not apply to usage other than in infoboxes. If you can show me such I'd be grateful. This has been a longstanding consensus guideline and I don't see why the addition of the footnote to the NFC page is such a problem. I'm not desperately wedded to it; I wouldn't revert again if another editor re-removed it. Black Kite (talk) 22:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
- Except the disagreement is over whether such images already satisfy NFCC#8 under the provision in the guideline that critical commentary of the work allows inclusion of the cover art for visual identification. It is not about whether NFCC8 applies to the images, but whether the guideline allows their use in pages on those who created the work where the work is the subject of critical commentary. This footnote is about changing the guidelines to reflect the position of those editors who only support or tolerate the inclusion of such images on articles specifically about the work.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:38, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
- If you consider a musical artist, then in any well-rounded article there will be critical commentary of many of their works. Given that these works already justify a non-free image in their own article, there cannot be a justification to re-use it (NFCC3a also applies here) unless there is critical commentary of the cover art itself (which is possible, but rare). Remember, NFCC8 says "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic". The topic in this article is the musical artist, not the cover art. However, non-free music samples may be a different matter; compare, for example, visual artists, where there are often multiple non-free images of their work in their articles - but these individual works do not have their own articles and they are contributing to the understanding of the work of the artist. Black Kite (talk) 22:48, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think that position has been agreed to by any sort of consensus. There is an understanding that non-free images should be used sparingly, but this would not inherently preclude cover art from being included in these cases. Your analogy is taking the extreme example where this would be akin to the guideline's restriction regarding lists, while ignoring more limited cases where an image of a particularly definitive work in the history of the subject is being included when the same is not being done for more trivial works.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:04, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not saying they can never be used in that way - merely that there has to be a good reason why a piece of cover art is needed if an album is being discussed, over and above being used for identification only (and thus failing NFCC8). If editors don't provide a really good rationale for that, it needs to be disallowed. Black Kite (talk) 06:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Mollskman
Hey, I noticed that you lifted this editor's block. The block was used as the basis for extending Moll's topic ban from 2012 election articles by a week to match the block, but as it was lifted within a day I am wondering if perhaps the extension of the topic ban should be reversed as well.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 15:35, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think it's a major issue, but let us see if the editor wishes to challenge it. Personally, given his editing, it would probably be better for him to stay away from those areas until after the election. Black Kite (talk) 23:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
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