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| ::::I spent a lot more time, and endured a lot more sockppuppetry on that page, I should be the one derided by the ]! ] 02:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC) | ::::I spent a lot more time, and endured a lot more sockppuppetry on that page, I should be the one derided by the ]! ] 02:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :::::Heh, now it comes out. Jealousy of Dr. Carr's highly imaginative personal attacks, the notability of which is now independently verified per ]. :-) ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 02:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 02:52, 5 May 2006
I protest in the strongest possible terms the "mandate" given to Adam Carr to act in an incivil manner and to assume bad faith, indefinitely. In his mis-formatted, contemptious response to the RfC filed regarding his conduct, Adam Carr said, in part: "Sorry, Bruce, I will try to revert you more often in future." This response was endorsed by User:172, User:SlimVirgin, User:Bletch, User:Merecat, User:Sarah_Ewart, User:Dbiv, User:Snottygobble, User:Ambi, User:Will Beback, User:beneaththelandslide, User:Aldux, User:I@n, User:CJK, User:Blnguyen, and User:Astrokey44. It appears that due to the POV reason that Adam Carr is anti-Castro, he is to be given an extraordinary mandate to ignore Misplaced Pages policy whenever it suits him. Today, Adam Carr writes, in part: "Whatever. You know what you're up to, Bruce, and I know what you're up to, so do spare us your line of tripe." Not a word from any of the above users or anyone else, which underscores the POV nature of the project and the unequale treatment some are offered on Misplaced Pages on account of their pro-Big Money POV. El_C 19:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- You left off from Adam's first quote above, "...although I must record my appreciation of Bruce's indignant accusation that I have most wickedly not broken the 3R rule. Sorry, Bruce, I will try to revert you more often in future." Context is everything, you know. --Calton | Talk 20:04, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- and you really feel this is the best place to bring a content dispute--IworkforNASA 19:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)?
- This is not a content dispute. El_C 20:06, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- (added after edit conflict) Er, if the RfC didn't work to reform his behaviour, you can always file a request for arbitration. For what it's worth, a casual perusal of Adam's history would seem to suggest that there are issues that need to be addressed.
- Coming to this page and accusing a number of good editors of bias and a 'pro-Big Money POV', however, is not likely to result in a satisfactory outcome. I'm sure that you can see how a request couched in terms of "I need administrative intervention with this user, are any of you biased dicks going to help me?" might not generate the response you are looking for. Nobody on Misplaced Pages has a mandate to 'act in an incivil manner and to assume bad faith', not even you.
- If you were to provide a concise statement of the dispute and what outcomes you might like to see (preferably accompanied by relevant, recent diffs) you might get a helpful response. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:55, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- No comment. El_C 19:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- So what would you like to achieve with your posting here? It isn't really clear from your messages so far. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- No comment. El_C 20:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- "I need administrative intervention with this user, are any of you biased dicks going to help me?" LOL!! Sorry, El C. :-D My own position is simply that if Adam Carr and 172 are both attending to a page (both historians and with different POVs) then I trust them to be getting it right, as opposed to their opposition which seems largely to consist of sockpuppets. Not knowing anything about Cuba myself, I have to defer to expert opinion. SlimVirgin 00:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, exactly that. But not so different POVs. I'd say they're placed pretty closely to one another, as left-leaning left-liberals or right-leaning social democrats, 172 is simply infinitely more understated. But endorsing Carr's contemptuous response in-effect gives him license to ignore pressing conduct issues. El_C 02:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- "I need administrative intervention with this user, are any of you biased dicks going to help me?" LOL!! Sorry, El C. :-D My own position is simply that if Adam Carr and 172 are both attending to a page (both historians and with different POVs) then I trust them to be getting it right, as opposed to their opposition which seems largely to consist of sockpuppets. Not knowing anything about Cuba myself, I have to defer to expert opinion. SlimVirgin 00:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- No comment. El_C 20:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- So what would you like to achieve with your posting here? It isn't really clear from your messages so far. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
- No comment. El_C 19:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, listen. I'm involved in this dispute and I wouldn't have proceeded without serious consideration. Adam and 172 may have doctorates in history, but I can confirm from experience in my own academic career, and from discussions with friends and colleagues (Latin American historians and archivists) here that their content judgements are suspect in this case. I entered the debate expecting an academic discussion approaching consensus, with the usual accompanying standards. Instead I was greeted with self styled "robust tactics" involving personal comments, and a ridiculous "edit war" in full flow, largely instigated by Adam. Adam's name calling became such that it got a mention in the Miami herald! Please note that neither I, nor my co-signer in Adam's rfc, BruceHallman have been reproached in any way for incivility, and the attacks (mainly on Bruce) have been one way. Many users and one mediator have tried to broach Adam on this and have failed. I have also explained to him that academics specialising in Latin American politics, particuarily Cuban affairs, have been actively put off from contributing to this article, citing his behaviour as the reason. I can confirm this if need be.--Zleitzen 01:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
"No comment" and "No comment" no wonder you moved the comments. --Calton | Talk 01:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Is that a comment or an observation. Do you seek comment from myself? If so, no comment. El_C 02:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- "Adam's name calling became such that it got a mention in the Miami herald!" :-D Really? Do you have a link, Zleitzen? SlimVirgin 01:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed! It tickled me as well!--Zleitzen 02:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Hilarious!! LOL We must add the "this page has been cited" tag to the top of the page. :-D SlimVirgin 02:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- I spent a lot more time, and endured a lot more sockppuppetry on that page, I should be the one derided by the Miami Herald! El_C 02:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- Heh, now it comes out. Jealousy of Dr. Carr's highly imaginative personal attacks, the notability of which is now independently verified per WP:V. :-) SlimVirgin 02:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
- I spent a lot more time, and endured a lot more sockppuppetry on that page, I should be the one derided by the Miami Herald! El_C 02:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)