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MFA

The website is down. 79.243.212.236 (talk) 16:46, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh. Why don't we wait for it to come back? Bazonka (talk) 17:11, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

You don't get the point. I presume something important is happening there. 79.243.212.236 (talk) 17:28, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

A power cut or something probably. It goes down fairly often. Bazonka (talk) 17:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

What has happened? I dont understand anything.

News about Kosovo recognition 2

Togo

The last news about Togo was important because also th MFA of Togo confirm the important meeting. Albanian MFA, Edmond Panariti, met the MFA of Togo, Elliott Ohin, at the UN. Minister Panariti emphasized the importance of the recognition of Kosovo by Togo, as a positive step in strengthening peace and security in the region. On his part, the Foreign Minister of Togo expressed his confidence that the forthcoming meeting between the Presidents of Togo and Kosovo will deliver results in this direction. Albanian MFA

But probably something has not gone as it should. Togo President met the head of GA at the UN, Jeremic, and the President of Serbia, Nikolic. In the web of the President of Togo is written that no statement was made ??after the the meeting with Serbian President. Presidency of Togo GOV of Togo

During the meeting with Jeremic in another Togo's GOV web site is written that the meeeting between Togo's President and Jeremic in New York, the agenda has nothing to do with Serbia.

Something has happened. While Kosovo President Jahjaga has turned into Pristina.

I've added a sentence about the meeting with Panariti. There really isn't anything we can say about the meetings with Jeremic. The Kosovo President link isn't working. (Please remember to sign your posts in future.) Bazonka (talk) 19:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Fiji

MFA of Kosovo, Enver Hoxhaj, met the MFA of Fiji, Ratu Inoke Kubuabola, at the UN. Mr. Kubuabola said that Fiji Government is examining Kosovo's request for recognition. Kubuabola reiterated that Fiji has always had sympathy for the aspirations of Kosovo to be an independent country and has a very positive attitude with regard to the recognition of the Republic of Kosovo. MFA OF KOSOVO

The MFA site is down, but I think we already have this information in the article anyway. Bazonka (talk) 19:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

East Timor

MFA of Kosovo, Enver Hoxhaj, met the MFA of East Timor, Guterres, at the UN. Mr. Guterres said that the recognition of Kosovo by his contry is a question of days. MFA OF KOSOVO

The MFA site is down, but again, this doesn't seem to be anything new. Bazonka (talk) 19:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

African Union

The Chairperson of the African Union, also President of Benini (contry which has recognized Kosovo), Mr. Yayi Boni met the DPM of Kosovo, Behgjet Pacolli. President Boni promised Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli his support would continue until all African countries have recognised Kosovo. According to the website of DPM Pacolli Boni as head of AU will help Kosovo for a full recognition by AU members DPM OF KOSOVO It is necessary to quote even African Union.

Also the new President of Ghana, John Dramani Mahama (contry which has recognized Kosovo) stated that his country will continue to strongly stand beside the Republic of Kosovo and offer its contribution in receiving new recognitions.

These are the positions of Benin and Ghana, and not that of the Afican Union. We can't use this information. Bazonka (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

South Sudan

PM, DPM and MFA of Kosovo, Thaçi, Pacolli and Hoxhaj met with the Vice President of South Sudan, Riek Machar. Vice President Machar during the meeting invited the Prime Minister of the Republic of Kosovo Thaçi for a state visit to South Sudan, which will be discussed to build bilateral relations between the two countries. The references in English PM OF KOSOVO DPM OF KOSOVO

This information is already in the article, but Riek Machar is the Vice President of South Sudan not South Sudan's Deputy Prime Minister that the user:Bazonka wrote.

Fixed. Bazonka (talk) 19:55, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Burundi

The PM and DPM of Kosovo, Thaçi and Pacolli, met the 1st Vice President of Burundi, Terence Sinunguruza and the MFA of Burundi (Antoinette Batumubwira). Sinunguruza together with his Foreign Minister invited Kosovo's Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli on an official visit to Burundi where he will discuss the construction of bilateral relations between the two countries. PM OF KOSOVO DPM OF KOSOVo

This information is already in the article, but Terence Sinunguruza is the 1st Vice President not only Vice-President. According this article Vice-President of Burundi, the position of Vice-President of the Republic of Burundi was created in June 1998, when a transitional constitution went into effect. It replaced the post of Prime Minister. The notice said that also was present the Foreign Minister of Burundi in the meeting (not quoted the name Antoinette Batumubwira). Perhaps it is important to add she.

I have fixed Sinunguruza's title. Batumubwira isn't reported as saying anything of note, so no point mentioning her. Bazonka (talk) 19:58, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Mozambique

The MFA of the Republic of Albania, Edmond Panariti met the MFA of Mozambique, Oldemiro Julio Marques Baloi. Panariti made a presentation on the situation of the region and especially the recent positive developments in Kosovo asking Minister Marques Baloi, Mozambique's recognition of the state of Kosovo, a matter for the Minister Marques Baloi said that his government would reconsidered. MFA OF ALBANIA

Thanks, I've added a paragraph. Bazonka (talk) 20:05, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Zambia

DPM of Kosovo, Behgjet Pacolli, met the MFA of Zambia, Mr. Given Lubinda. Minister Lubinda said that his state there are no reason to not recognize the Republic of Kosovo. Mr. Lubinda invited the Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli on an official visit to his country, during the month of October.

Thanks. I've added a sentence. Bazonka (talk) 20:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Republic of the Congo (old news)

During his missions in Africa with the project "Flying for Kosovo" in February 2011, Kosovan pilot James Berisha met the Minister of Sustainable Development, the Forest Economy and the Environment of the Republic of the Congo, Mr. Henri Djombo. Minister Djombo expressed that Kosovo should be recognized by his government and that it would be the right thing to do. He reassured Berisha that he would do anything possible with his coworkers and partners in order to push Kosovo independence issue forward with his government.

Mr. Djombo then called his Director of Communications who took charge right away by directing Berisha to the Minister of Foreign Affairs office for a meeting. At first, Berisha were told that the Minister’s day was packed with appointment. However, Berisha learned later that the Minister had some hesitations about meeting with him due to his concern that he would receive repercussions from his superiors. On the other hand, that means that the Minister already knew the purpose of Berisha visit and that Bersha had Vlora Citaku’s letter to deliver to him. Thanks to all of the MFA staff for the sense of care that they showed to Berisha mission during this time and specifically to Mr. Gasto Bavovidits, Chef de Secretariat du Cabinet of the Minister, who promised to pass Berisha much treasured letter from Ms. Çitaku directly to his boss, the Minister himself.

Can we put something about Congo? For example the statement of the Minister of Environment and the reluctance of Foreign Minister.

• OK the Minister of Environment is not his job to say something about Kosovo, but he remains a member of the Council of Ministers of his country. Congo voted "YES" at IMF.

This is rather tenuous, and I'm not sure it is worth mentioning something that an environment minister said about foreign affairs. Almost certainly his personal opinion and not that of his government. Bazonka (talk) 20:21, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Of course it is important. 79.243.205.61 (talk) 11:50, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Why? Bazonka (talk) 18:42, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

@Kosovo-Hater Bazonka: It is an reaction from a member of the government. 79.243.212.79 (talk) 06:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:NPA please. Yes, this was a reaction from a member of the government, but it is highly likely that his comments were not made on behalf of the government, but in a personal capacity. What do other people think? Bazonka (talk) 07:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

The link states that this is Djombo's personal opinion ("Mr. Henri Djombo was very thorough in trying to understand the issue of Kosovo’s independence and personally expressed that we should be recognized by his government and that it would be the right thing to do."). Thus, there is no story here. --Khajidha (talk) 09:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

It makes no difference for us. It is important either way. 79.243.206.228 (talk) 06:56, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

No, it's not. I don't know why you think it is, but it isn't. This is the personal opinion of a man with no say in his country's foreign policy. It is completely and totally irrelevant. --Khajidha (talk) 21:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC) (PS-I'm very much in favor of Kosovan independence, and I don't see how this statement is relevant.)

Kosovo Media reporting PNG recognized

, , and - Canadian Bobby (talk) 11:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Macedonian news: here

Quote: "Today we are officially informed through our Embassy in Tokyo that the Government of Papua New Guinea made a decision to recognize independence of Kosovo.. Prime Minister of this country, Peter O'Neill, made already public this decision..We will soon establish diplomatic relations with this country, "Artan Behrami, advisor to the minister Enver Hoxhaj, confirmed to Koha.net." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.179.181.23 (talk) 12:44, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

What is about this?

In June this year, the U.S. Embassy in Pristina said that he had information that 89 countries have recognized Kosovo, and not 91, then claimed that Kosovo officials. "The United States had been informed that 89 countries have recognized Kosovo. It is a statement that Uganda and Nigeria have recognized Kosovo. The letter that we saw and sent by President Museveni of Uganda Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli is not a confession. U.S. has not seen a diplomatic note to the Government of Nigeria that could be used to establish that the recognition of Kosovo," the release from the U.S. Embassy in Pristina. Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Nigeria in September, has denied that the African countries recognized Kosovo's independence, as it was, exactly a year ago, another man claimed the government in Pristina Behgjet Pacolli. Oman and Guinea-Bissau are also, in September last year, denied the news of the recognition of Kosovo. Бранко Џиновић (talk) 13:05, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are asking. Why do we care what the US Embassy says? The relevant countries here (as with any recognition) are the recognizing country and the recognized country. Even this denial from the Nigerian MFA is not a direct statement from them to the world press or United Nations, but a report of what was supposedly said coming from a third party. --Khajidha (talk) 14:30, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

But a the US are quite in favour of Kosovo, the fact that they claim recognition by two countries to be fake is a serious point to consider doubt. So after this and all the other points that have already been suggested, it seems to me that it is far time, not to remove these countries as there still seems to be more evidence for than against recognition, but at least to include some kind of note expressing the uncertainty, on order for the article to stay truly neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.158.219.121 (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't say that at all. The US being unaware of something is not the same as the US saying that it is fake. Bazonka (talk) 20:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

We've been over this a million times. Every so often an anti-Kosovo poster comes breathlessly rushing in to post this, as though it's the first time we've ever heard of it. It's a non-issue. Let it go. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 03:16, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Canadian Bobby - I'm not an anti-Kosovo poster, I am personally in favour of Kosovo's independence (although that has of course nothing to do here, I just say it as you assume the contrary which I find quite insulting as you don't know me). I just realise that there are several serious media reports, most of them a priori anti-Kosovo but not all of them as some of them even are quotes from Kosovo media, who doubt the authenticity of MFA-claimed recognition by Nigeria especially, and to a lesser extent by some other countries. Still, there seems to be more evidence that there is recognition that that there isn't, so it's perfectly right to keep these countries in the list - but claiming this is just a non-issue is perfectly dishonest, and as there is a certain amount of uncertainty, some kind of note MUST be introduced into the article to reflect this. If people keep talking about it again and you're sick of it, maybe it means it's time to stop turning a deaf ear on them.

Anyway, I admit I was wrong for what I wrote yesterday on the US Embassy claiming these recognitions to be fake - I didn't read the whole article, so I thank Bazonka for correcting me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.157.206.129 (talk) 10:23, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

News about Kosovo recognition 3

Proposition to add the Republic of the Congo

Country	Position	Relevant international membership
Republic of the Congo	In February 2011, a member of the Government of the Republic of the Congo (Minister of Sustainable Development, Forestry Economy and Environment), ruling political party Labour Party, and Parliament, Mr. Henri Djombo expressed that Kosovo should be recognized by his government and that it would be the right thing to do. He reassured that he would do anything possible with his coworkers and partners in order to push Kosovo independence issue forward with his government.

This has been discussed earler and rejected. You'll need consensus for this, and currently you don't have it. Please remember to sign your posts. Bazonka (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree adding the above and keeping it until we find a better source. Japinderum (talk) 06:18, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Why? It's the personal opinion of someone who has no mandate on foreign affairs. Bazonka (talk) 06:24, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

The Republic of Kosovo establishes diplomatic relations with the Republic of Ghana

On October 4th 2012, Kosovo and Ghana's ambassador to US, Mr Akan Ismaili and Mr. Daniel Ohene Agyekum signed the act of establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries.

The ceremony of the establishment of diplomatic relations was held in the offices of the Embassy of Ghana in Washington DC.

The document expressed the willingness of the Government of Kosovo and the Government of Ghana to promote the bonds of friendship between the two countries, expanding the horizons of cooperation and support to the cause of international peace and security.

Further, to reaffirm the commitment of both governments to the United Nations and the principles of international law, including mutual respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity and interference in the internal affairs of another state.

Republic of Ghana has recognized Kosovo an independent and sovereign state on 23 January 2012, with some high personalities of Ghana visited Kosovo.MFA OF KOSOVO

The offical Facebook of Kosovo's Embessy to US relased also phtoto of the event.

In August 2012, the MFA of Ghana, Mr. Muhammad Mumuni vistis Kosovo. In the framework of the official visit to Kosovo, the delegation of the Republic of Ghana, led by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ghana, Muhammad Mumuni, accompanied by First Deputy Prime Minister of the Government, Behgjet Pacolli, have developed a visit to Kosovo historical president family, Dr. Ibrahim Rugova. Foreign Minister of Ghana, Mumuni made to Rugova family, discussed the challenges that Kosovo has gone to come to the end of supervised independence. In a very warm family atmosphere and a very friendly reception, Family of Ibrahim Rugova, thank Foreign Minister of Ghana for the recognition of Kosovo by Ghana, informing Mr. Mumuni, largely to the activity of President Rugova and his early vision for Kosovo freedom and independence. Also, the family of President Rugova expressed respect for the government and people of Ghana, highly appreciated the decision of the state to develop diplomatic and friendly relations with our country. On the other hand, the Minister Mumuni, appreciated the image of former President Rugova, his vision of peace to realize his people rights to freedom and independence. In this context, the Minister Mumuni, has said that between President Rugova and historical president of Ghana (John Evans Atta Mills) has great similarities, because both have as doctrine, peaceful and freedom-loving vision of great Gandhi. Mumuni Minister accompanied by Pacolli have also paid homage at the grave of former President Rugova. Also during the day, Foreign Minister Mumuni participated in the international conference for the completion of supervised independence, which is being held in Pristina. Minister Mumuni, in this case held an opening speech, praising the work of the Kosovo institutions to arrive at the decision to the completion of supervised independence.DPM OF KOSOVO

Wrong article. Discuss here instead: Foreign relations of the Republic of Kosovo. Please remember to sign your posts, and note that Facebook is not a reliable source.. Bazonka (talk) 17:26, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

But his is: http://www.mfa-ks.net/?page=2,4,1428 79.243.204.243 (talk) 17:26, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Kosova and Liechtenstein to establish diplomatic relations

Principality of Liechtenstein and the Republic of Kosovo have agreed to establish diplomatic relations between the two countries. Upon request of the Embassy of the Republic of Kosovo in Switzerland, Liechtenstein Embassy in Bern confirmed the agreement of this Principality to establish direct diplomatic relations with the Republic of Kosovo, based on the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 18 April 1961.

After this mutual agreement, diplomatic relations between the two countries, through the accreditation of ambassadors, will be established in the near future.MFA OF KOSOVO

Discuss this here instead. Bazonka (talk) 17:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Grenada

In April 2010, the MFA of Grenada, Peter David, promised that he will do everything possible to make sure that the topic of Kosovo’s independence will rise to the top of the agenda.

Thanks. I've added a sentence. Bazonka (talk) 17:52, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Catalonia

Catalan nationalist parties react to the international recognition of Kosovo's independence Something should be added on Catalonia in e.x of Basque.

I've added a new section. Don't forget to sign your posts though - without them Talk pages can get confusing and messy. Bazonka (talk) 18:08, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

UN

The media in Pristina commented the visit of Kosovan delegation at the UN. The media commented that Kosovo (President Jahjafa, PM Thaçi, DPM Pacolli and MFA Hoxhaj) go to the UN or invited by a country (ex: Albania, US) or under the banner of UNMIK and EULEX. But this suspicion was rejected by the authority of the UN. Jérôme Bernard, a cabinet official of Ban Ki-moon and spokesman of UN a, said for the first time that Kosovo delegation represents the Kosovo authority at UN The UN has created a new term for the representation of Kosovo in New Yorl.

I don't really understand this. The Google translation of the article is largely incomprehensible. I could guess, but I wouldn't be confident in what I'm writing. Bazonka (talk) 18:16, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Bangladesh

In July 2012, a delegation of Bangaldesh Parliament (Muhiuddin Khan Alamgir and Jatiya Sangsad) visit Kosovo. Pacolli and Members of Parliament of Bangladesh, who are also leading parliamentary committees, have agreed to develop a visit by Deputy Prime Minister of Kosovo there, that visit to the main topic will be the recognition of the Republic of Kosovo.

Meh - this isn't particularly noteworthy. If we didn't have much information on Bangladesh, then I might be tempted to add some text, but we've already got loads of stuff, and this isn't really telling us anything new. Bazonka (talk) 18:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Kosovo does not recognize Serbia as a state

In May 2012, Kosovo's MFA, Enver Hoxhaj, said before the Foreign Commission of the Assembly of Kosovo led by Alin Kurit, that Kosovo does not recognize Serbia as a state until Serbia does not recognize Kosovo.Telegafi

This is not directly relevant to the recognition of Kosovo. Bazonka (talk) 18:10, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

President Traore: Mali has not recognized Kosovo

Serbian media: The president of Mali, Diokunda Traore informed his Serbian counterpart Tomislav Nikolic that Mali has not recognized Kosovo, agency Tanjug learns from the Nikolic’s press centre.Serbian media

We already know that. Bazonka (talk) 18:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Libya

Kosovo's Assembly Speaker, Jakup Krasniqi, met with a delegation from Libya, led by Khalal Al FALLAH, the Chairman of the Council of Libyans Combatants. Krasniqi congratulated the representatives of the Libyan people for democratic change in their country and for the easy passage of rapid transition.

Libyan Combatants Council Head, Al FALLAH gave an overview of current developments in Libya, after the revolution achievements and challenges facing the new institutions in establishing the rule of law in the country. He spoke of the willingness of these institutions to recognize Kosovo and added that it is expected to occur immediately after the consolidation of the new Libyan government, despite resistance from elements of the previous regime. Libyan representative described many important achievements in Kosovo, showing interest to take its experience in building democratic institutions and legal infrastructure creation. RTK

This is just repetition of what Al Fallah said when he visited Kosovo. Nothing new. Bazonka (talk) 18:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Uganda

The President of Uganda, His Excellency Mr. Yoweri Museveni invited the Fisrt DPM of Kosovo, Behgjet Pacolli, in the Gold Ceremony of the 50th anniversary of Uganda's independence on 9 October 2012, in the state capital Kampala.DPM of Kosovo

We can't use this in the article. Bazonka (talk) 18:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Different method of recognition

We have read the note verbale of recognition from Uganda and often have cast doubt on this recognition. Ugandan president wrote that Uganda joined with the states that recognised Kosovo. But it was commented by Serbian MFA that there wasn't a recognition. This is meaningless because every state follow its own way how to recognise another state. There is no international rule what should be written in the note verbale. Another state has recognized Kosovo in this way. Federated States of Micronesia in its verbal note publishet by the web site of the FSM Government recognised Kosovo in the same way as Uganda. (Micronesia has joined the growing number of countries that have formally recognized Kosovo)

Ugandan Verbal Note = Micronesian Verbal Note

We discussed about Uganda, but not about FSM.

What is there to discuss? Bazonka (talk) 18:30, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Oman

Very intersting news was published by Oman newspaper. Accordit to the Oman's newaspaper Oman Daily Observer. In September 2011, durin the 66th session of the UN General Assembly, the delegation of Oamn at UN ruled by the MFA of Oman, Mr. Yusuf bin Alawi bin Abdullah met the MFA of Kosovo, Enver Hoxhaj. Also on the sidelines of the UN session, Alawi met with Enver Hoxhaj, Foreign Affairs Minister of Kosovo. The meeting discussed means of promoting relations between the two countries and matters of common concern. The meetings were attended by Lyutha bint Sultan al Mughiriyah, the Sultanate's Permanent Representative to the United Nations, and the official delegation accompanying Alawi. this confirms that Oman has recognized Kosovo and speculation on Oman drop down.

Oman newspaper also publshed that another article: Sultanate, Kosovo to boost cultural ties. Habib bin Mohammed al Riyami, Secretary-General of the Sultan Qaboos Centre for Islamic Culture, received in his office here yesterday Shaikh Naim Ternava, Head of Islamic Union of Kosovo and General Mufti and his accompanying delegation. The two sides discussed the importance of communication between the Sultan Qaboos Centre for Islamic Culture and the Islamic Union of Kosovo, means of enhancing joint co-operation and exchanging visits. The guest praised the Centre's efforts in highlighting Islam and disseminating the Islamic culture.

Oman and Kosovo not only had polical and diplomatic relationship, but also cultural relations. I believe that Omani be discussed or should think Oman newspapers lie.

Again, what are we supposed to be discussing? Don't forget to sign your posts. Bazonka (talk) 18:31, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Nepal

The website of the Government of Nepal, Ministry of Labour and Employment, Recognized Kosovo as a Destination Country

Yes, but what does that actually mean? Does it show that there is a de jure recognition, or is it just acknowledgement that Kosovo is outside the control of Serbia and just de facto independent? This is a bit like the old Solomon Islands case (see ) where the information was removed from the article as being WP:OR or WP:SYNTHESIS (I forget which). Bazonka (talk) 18:36, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Lots of countries list "Taiwan" as an entity without that conferring diplomatic recognition. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 17:34, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Morocco

On October 8th 2012 in Strasbourg, the PM of the Republic of Albania, Mr. Sali Berisha met the PM of the Kingdom of Morocco, Mr. Abdelilah Benkirane. PM Berisha assured the Moroccan prime minister of Albania stance about recognition of Morocco integrity. Further on, PM Berisha focused on the situation in the region and especially in Kosova and emphasized that the process that has already started there is irreversible. He invited the Moroccan authorities to send envoys to see from very close this new reality. In this context, PM Berisha said that the Albanian authorities would welcome if Moroccan authorities took under consideration the recognition of the new state of Kosova.

The Moroccan prime minister thanked PM Berisha about the integrity issue and promised to consider the request of the Albanian authorities given that it’s a very important subject for the region. Albanian PM office

So they'll think about it. This isn't anything new and probably not worth mentioning. Bazonka (talk) 18:40, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Kenya

On 10 October 2012 In the context of visits to various states on the African continent, the Deputy Prime Minister of Kosovo, Mr. Behgjet Pacolli visited Kenya, where he was met by the Prime Minister Mr. Raila Odinga.

Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli informed Prime Minister Odinga about political processes in Kosovo, with particular emphasis on those which have been successfully concluded, namely the full implementation of the Ahtisaari Package, which resulted in the successful end to supervision of independence.

In this context, Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli, said that recognition of Kosovo by all states in the world is a decision which fully respects international law and the will of citizens of the Republic of Kosovo.

Prime Minister Odinga confirmed to Deputy Prime Minister Pacolli that his state is seriously addressing recognition of Kosovo and that the outcome will be made public in the near future. DPM OF KOSOVO

Again, this is not showing a change of stance by Kenya. It's basically the same as the last lot of information that we wrote for the country, and so possibly not worth mentioning. Bazonka (talk) 18:43, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Serbia and EU Commission

The European Commission (EC) demand for Serbia to respect "the territorial integrity of Kosovo" in progress raport 2012. The PM of Serbia, Ivica Dacic, said that EC report phrasing puts dialogue in jeopardy. Daici accused Brussels and threaten to interrupt the dialogue between the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Kosovo. B92

Papua New Guinea recognition

On 3 October the advisor of the Kosovo MFA Hoxhaj said that PNG recognize Kosovo. <The advisor of Hoxhaj said that a delegation of PNG have gone in the Kosovo Embassy in Tokyo to confrim the recognion of Kosovo by PNG. Before the media in Oceonia:

Pacific Islands News Association

PNG recognises Kosovo By Online Editor 1:23 pm GMT+12, 03/10/2012, Papua New Guinea Papua New Guinea has recognized the Republic of Kosovo and will enter into full diplomatic relations with the new Balkan State.

Prime Minister, Peter O'Neill, today announced the National Government's decision Tuesday.

The National Executive Council (NEC) made the decision, based on a submission from the Foreign Affairs Minister, Rimbink Pato.

Prime Minister O'Neill said instruments to this effect will be formalized and exchanged soon through diplomatic channels.

He said Kosovo is a former state within the now disbanded Federation of Yugoslavia.

It gained Independence on February 17, 2008 and has many things in common with PNG.

O'Neill said Cabinet’s decision is in line with the Governments' foreign policy to have international relations with countries that have mutual interest with PNG.

He said Kosovo’s primary import of coffee and cocoa makes it an ideal market for PNG's primary produce.

PNG joins Australia, Samoa, New Zealand, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Kiribati, Marshalls, Palau, Tuvalu and Vanuatu - countries that have recognized and entered into diplomatic relations with the Republic of Kosovo.

Another Papuan media published the news

Post-Courier Online, PNG newspaper

PNG links with Kosovo

Prime Minister Peter O’Neill has announced the national government’s decision to officially recognize and enter into diplomatic relations with the Republic of Kosovo. “I am pleased to announce that the NEC, based on a submission from the Foreign Minister has approved for PNG to officially recognise and enter into full diplomatic relations with the new Balkan State” Mr O’Neill said in a statement. “I have the honor and privilege to therefore announce that PNG recognises the Republic of Kosovo as an independent state among nations. Instruments to this effect will be formalised and exchanged soon through diplomatic channels.” Kosovo is a former state within the, now disbanded Federation of Yugoslavia. It gained Independence on 17th February, 2008 and has many things in common with PNG. “As both the Foreign Minister Rimbink Pato and I have recently stated publically, PNG’s foreign policy must be based on international cooperation in which there is mutual interest and benefits.” Kosovo has consolidated relations with the democratic and economic powers of the USA, European Union, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and others. “Kosovo is ethnically diverse and rich in natural resources, and is now enjoying stability and peaceful co-existence among its different communities and religions”. Mr O’Neill said. “Its primary import of coffee and cocoa makes it an ideal market for our primary produce” Other Pacific countries that have already recognised and entered into diplomatic relations include Australia, Samoa, New Zealand, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Kiribati, Marshalls, Palau, Tuvalu and Vanuatu. Fiji and Solomon Islands are going through internal processes to conclude formalities before taking the diplomatic steps required to effect recognition. As of June, 2012, the Republic of Kosovo has received 93 diplomatic recognitions as an independent state, 91 of them, members of the United Nations.

But the web of the MFA of Kosovo has not published in list PNG yet. Why?

There's plenty of circumstantial evidence, but has anything official been published by the PNG or Kosovo governments yet? I think it is safe to keep PNG in the recognisers section at present. Bazonka (talk) 18:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Fiji and Solomon Islands

According to the Papua New Guinea newspaper Post Courier on Kosovo recognition, Fiji and Solomon Islands are going through internal processes to conclude formalities before taking the diplomatic steps required to effect recognition. Post-Courier The vist of the MFA of Kosovo Enver Hoxhaj in Oceania has been a considerable success. Papua recognition and Solomons Islands, Fixhi, East Timor under way of the recognition.

I don't know if we can use this source because it doesn't directly say where in Fiji or the Solomon Islands this information came from (probably someone with a groovy shirt though). It could just be conjecture. Please remember to sign your posts. Bazonka (talk) 18:50, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Every time again Kosovo-Hater Bazonka is telling us, that something is not important. 79.243.204.243 (talk) 19:09, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Sigh... Just because I disagree with your suggestions about Misplaced Pages, it doesn't mean that I disagree with your politics. As a matter of fact I am neutral when it comes to Kosovo vs. Serbia. WP:NPA please. In this particular case of Fiji and the Solomon Islands, the issue is really one of WP:RS. Bazonka (talk) 20:09, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

The Post-Courier's website is awful, but they do seem to be fairly reputable; I think they'd be a sufficiently reliable source for PNG government statements like this (it's not a dramatic or speculative statement, and the paper isn't putting a spin on it). The statement also seems to have been printed in this edition. bobrayner (talk) 00:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough - WP:RS isn't quite appropriate in this case. The issue isn't really the reliability of the source, but I do question where they got their information about Fiji and the Solomon Islands from, since it doesn't seem to be published elsewhere, especially in media from those countries. Bazonka (talk) 17:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Article Introduction

What on earth happened there? I'd like to make a recommendation that the entire last paragraph be deleted. Everything mentioned there is discussed in some form elsewhere in the article, and talk of unnanounced implied recognitions via IMF votes and unofficial liason offices is getting a little off-topic (if not OR). The introduction should be a summary that tries to state the most important and relevant facts as clearly as possible. Konchevnik81 (talk) 13:50, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree. That paragraph should be deleted immediately. 79.243.205.168 (talk) 15:20, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I also agree. I tried to delete it a few days ago but User:Japinderum put it back. It was originally placed there by User:Markd999. Bazonka (talk) 17:09, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The latest version has a hint of OR/synthesis to it, but I think it would be good to cover the subject of implicit/indirect recognition if we could get more solid, more specific sources rather than reading between the lines. bobrayner (talk) 19:20, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

But what even is implicit or indirect recognition? There is de facto and de jure recognition. This article is mostly concerned with de jure recognitions, and any instances of de facto recognition (like non-recognizing EU states accepting Kosovar passports) is best mentioned under individual country descriptions, if not in other articles altogether. A diplomatic recognition, especially in such a controversial case as Kosovo, is a pretty public act. As mentioned a while back, it's not really something a country can secretly or implicitly do: either it's done or its not.Konchevnik81 (talk) 21:00, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

There are shades of grey in recognition and nonrecognition. Some parties are so hostile that they won't even sit at the same conference table; others are indifferent; others will make a point of not recognising but still try to cooperate on minor matters (such as commerce or customs) - something we have occasionally seen happen in Kosovo, depending on the political climate, regardless of the positions taken by extremists. It's very hard to get sources that look directly at the grey area, but if possible it would be very helpful for our readers rather than painting some selective black-and-white picture which is purely about diplomatic recognition, even though formal exchange of diplomats is a pretty small part of how states interact. Even if we just consider Serbia rather than all the other hundreds of states, 5 minutes googling will find a dozen Serbian sources saying that the SAA constituted "backdoor" or "implicit" recognition of Kosovo. ;-) bobrayner (talk) 22:03, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Konchevnik81, implicit, de facto, de jure and other diplomatic recognition types are described at the source. Both de jure and de facto recognitions can be implicit or explicit.

The problem with the section:

"This article refers only to formal bilateral acts of recognition. In a secret ballot, 108 states voted in June 2009 for Kosovo's membership in the IMF, States which do not recognise Kosovo as an independent state (China, Greece, Russia and Slovakia), nonetheless retain liaison offices there and routinely perform actions which might be interpreted as de facto recognition, however they have explicitly declared that they don't recognize Kosovo."

is that it's first section is about unannounced implied recognition (and that's kind of OR/SYNTH - we have source describing implied recognition (e.g. establishing diplomatic relations), but it doesn't say anything about whether secret ballots are considered such or not) and it's second section is about cases that would've been implied recognition if the states weren't explicitly declaring that this isn't the case (as the source describing implied recognition states - no action implies recognition when the state issues a statement to the contrary).

I inadvertently restored the section, because of edit conflict - I was adding sources to it at the same time Bazonka was deleting it.

I think the place for these two sentences isn't in the lead, but in the respective countries position boxes. The would've part maybe is already mentioned, e.g. "maintains liaison office, but has issued statements clarifying that this isn't an implied recognition, not even close". The unannounced implied recognition can easily be mentioned in the box of each current non-recognizer who voted "for" Republic of Kosovo IMF membership. Of course this won't solve its synthish nature. Before it was proposed IMF for votes to be simply mentioned - but editors disagreed. I think readers should be aware how a country voted at the only occasion so far when almost all members of the international community were placed in a position to decide whether Republic of Kosovo is a state or not. Japinderum (talk) 06:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Libya and outdated info

This page should include info that allows readers to speculate as to how likely countries are to recognise Kosovco. For that the stand of Kadafi is no longer relevant. If the article was really top show "how positions have changed over time" we would still include the info for countries that have recognised Kosovo.Dejvid (talk) 19:51, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

If you are going to delete the Gaddafi information from Libya, then for consistency you should also remove information from the other countries that pertains to previous governments. This would be quite difficult to do, and may leave the article without much content. Bazonka (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

To be consistent, if we keep the Kadafi statements, we should include all the statements given by governments that have recognized Kosovo giving their reasons - this would be far harder to do. The article as it stands is over-long and a reduction size would not hurt. But above all the Libya is an especially stark example of including info that is out of date because of the complete break with the past that the new government represents.Dejvid (talk) 22:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Once a state has recognized Kosovo, any notable content can be moved to an article such as Kosovo–Malaysia relations. However, it doesn't make much sense to start a Kosovo–Libya relations article if there are no diplomatic relations between the states. Just because the government has changed in Libya doesn't make historical information non-notable. Yes it's not up to date, but it's still relevant and notable. TDL (talk) 03:57, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

There is quite a lot of information about Libya in this article - it could be moved into a spin-off Libya's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence article. That would have more scope for splitting into sections for Gadaffi's government and the new government. Bazonka (talk) 07:07, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't there a decision already to split-out like that the too long sections? Japinderum (talk) 09:15, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Bazonka - "If you are going to delete the Gaddafi information from Libya, then for consistency you should also remove information from the other countries that pertains to previous governments." I disagree: most government changes don't mean complete regime changes as most new governments don't reject absolutely everything that their predecessor did, but go on building upon it. In the case of the Lybian Revolution, Gadaffi's whole policies are completely irrelevant to the new Libyan authorities today. Still, I don't think the part should be deleted, but perhaps shortened to one phrase something like "Before the Libyan Revolution, Gadaffi regime was opposed to Kosovo's independence." with a few links showing this; and then on with the new regime's position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.157.206.129 (talk) 09:42, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Either this article is the history of international recognition or seeks to explain the current situration. If historical then countries that have recognized ~Kosovo need to have their reasons for recognition included. If it is on the current situation then past governments need to cut. (I would be less opposed to keeping the stance of a past government when a new government has yet to make a statement.) So what is the article history or current? Dejvid (talk) 10:39, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

It's an overview of the history of recognition. However, due to WP:SIZE constraints some of the historical content has been WP:SPLIT off to other articles. If you have content that you'd like to add regarding the reasons for recognition, you should add it to the appropriate "Country-Kosovo relations" page as this article is already too long. TDL (talk) 15:29, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

In that case the selective deletion of the views of some governments is creating a serious POV problem. You are excluding the views of governments that have recognised Kosovo and these, no surprise here, the ones most sympathetic to recognition.Dejvid (talk) 21:41, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree that there is an imbalance in the way that we present historical information between the recognisers and the non-recognisers, but I don't think there is any POV. Those countries that haven't recognised have all sorts of stances, from the will never recognise, to the don't care, to the will recognise soon. Whereas the stances of the recognisers is obvious. It would be extremely difficult to replace historic information for the recognisers, especially taking into account the WP:SIZE problem, and removing it from the non-recognisers would be damaging. I say leave things as they are. The IP's comment about shortening the Gadaffi information is not a bad one, and moving the section to a new article is probably better still. Bazonka (talk) 22:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I have been bold and moved it. Bazonka (talk) 22:19, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

That does not solve the problem. While it is true that non recognizers do include countries that intend to recognize Kosovo they will almost all be at best counties that do hold strong opinions. The countries that have the strongest reasons for supporting Kosovo have done so long ago. Hence as a representation of the debate it is totally distorted. Hence plenty of mention of undermining the principle of territorial integrity but no mention that a government in Belgrade was, a little over a decade ago, conducting a campaign of genocide in Kosovo. I don't however believe that people come to this page looking for a detailed history. What they want is info that will give them some idea as to how likely countries are to recognize Kosovo.

I don't believe a page on Libya's reaction to Kosovo independence is notable. Gadafi's views are being given as great indeed greater prominence that those of the current government. I don't believe new pages should be created simply to avoid necessary pruning.Dejvid (talk) 20:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

New pages are not being created "to avoid necessary pruning" — they are being created to deal with the WP:SIZE problem. Bazonka (talk) 20:51, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, a little while back, I did edit to say (among other things) that Gaddafi's government had been ousted and no longer represented Libya. --Yalens (talk) 23:36, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

That's not remotely relevant. 79.243.222.177 (talk) 18:31, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

undue tag

If this page is intended to reflect the history of the recognition issue than it should reflect all points of views equally. The current page includes the views of a number of governments that Kosovan independence represents a dangerous precedent. The contrary view of governments like Britain that hold Kosovo to be a special case are excluded because they have recognised Kosovo. I say if because I am far from convince that is what the role of this page is. However, there is no consistent NPOV criteria that excludes the views of recognisers yet includes the views of former governments that are no longer relevant such as Gadafi.Dejvid (talk) 11:25, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I thought that this page was about the current status of the recognition issue. If that is the case, then there is no reason to give any details on those countries that have recognized. The fact of recognition is all that matters, anything else could be covered in a "Kosovo-_____ relations" article. As for non-recognizers they should have their most recent statements here, along with any significantly different prior statements. As for the Libyan issue, the current wording seems fine ("During the rule of Muammar Gaddafi, Libya's was opposed to the independence of Kosovo. But since the fall of his government, the country's stance has been favourable towards it.") --Khajidha (talk) 14:29, 24 October 2012 (UTC)Note: just noticed a typo in the Libyan note. It should be either "Libya" or "Libya's government", "Libya's" makes no sense.

I agree it should be about the current status but in that case Gadafi's oppinion should be cut completly and the most recent quote of the current government should suffice. The current note gives both governments equal status while in the subpage the Gadafi government completely swamps that of the current one.Dejvid (talk) 16:01, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Removing historical stuff would be fine if all we wanted to portray was the current situation. However, that smacks of WP:RECENTISM to me; readers may be interested in previous situations too. bobrayner (talk) 16:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Some countries keep changing their mind or giving conflicting positions. If we only displayed the most recent information then we would lose this important narrative. I understand Dejvid's point of view that there is an imbalance between the way we represent information for the recognisers and for the non-recognisers, but I disagree that there is anything undue in the article. We are certainly not favouring the pro-Serb stance (just look at the complaints that we are too pro-Albanian in the article feedback) - there are plenty of independence-leaning countries who haven't recognised yet. In any case, there's not much we can do about it - it would be almost impossible to include historical information for the recognisers, and removing information from the non-recognisers would be damaging. Bazonka (talk) 16:57, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I was assuming that older material would be moved to "reaction" pages if it is redundant or left here if it showed significant differences from the current statement. As for Dejvid's concerns about the Libyan presentation, equal weight is appropriate here as the new government hasn't actually recognized as yet and the Libyan reaction page obviously has more on Gaddafi's government's reaction because of the longer period of time during which they could react as opposed to the short period the new government has had. Note that "reaction" is not limited to dealing with "now", while "recognition" seems (to me at least) to imply the current situation. --Khajidha (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Agreed with Bobrayner. Gaddafi was in charge for that majority of the time since Kosovo's declaration of independence, so it would be silly to ignore this entire time period. Dejvid, if you think that the position of the current government isn't sufficiently covered, you're more then welcome to WP:FIXIT by adding more recent info to the subarticle. However, the soulution isn't to delete notable historical content because of a perceived lack of current content.

One possible solution would be for a brief paragraph at the start of the "Entities that recognise Kosovo as an independent state" section which summarizes the arguments made by recognizing states, as opposed to a state-by-state explanation which isn't possible due to WP:SIZE issues. TDL (talk) 17:06, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The reaction pages (e.g. Libya's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence) were intended solely to address the WP:SIZE problem for countries where we have a lot of information. They are not intended to have a different scope from this main article. Bazonka (talk) 17:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I understand that, but most countries that don't have reaction pages still wouldn't need them under my proposal as there really isn't anything to remove from them as they only have one or two statements. --Khajidha (talk) 17:11, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I'm not losing any sleep over the pro/anti thing. It's a mosaic; if we get all the individual pieces of the mosaic right, then the complete result will tend to be an accurate portrayal of reality. I think that some historic coverage - perhaps showing how individual governments have changed or developed their positions - would be appropriate to avoid a bias towards the present day but we don't need exhaustive detail. I'm happy splitting out some of governments where we have a large volume of text (like Libya, or bigger) to stop this page turning into War & Peace. bobrayner (talk) 11:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't think our positions are as far apart as you might think. --Khajidha (talk) 12:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

>>Bazonka:"it would be almost impossible to include historical information for the recognisers,"

It would be difficult but not impossible - see the link above which discusses the British governments reasons. The reason it would be difficult is because much of the online pages on this issue are only temporary. But this applies across the board. About half the links from the on Libya page from the Gadafi era are dead links. They are unverifiable and as such should be removed for that reason alone.Dejvid (talk) 16:50, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

That's not a reason to delete stuff - see WP:LINKROT. Bazonka (talk) 18:19, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Our options

So what are we actually going to do? Please can you express your preference below, remembering to sign each comment:

1. Do nothing. Leave the article in its current structure.

• Support The article has stayed this way for years without any complaints. Change would be unnecessary and disruptive. Bazonka (talk) 09:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
• Sympathy but not outright support. This article would definitely benefit from some tweaks and maybe some updates over time, so "do nothing" looks unreasonable to me. However, I would be happy to keep the overall structure and I don't think drastic changes are needed. bobrayner (talk) 16:31, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

2. Add lots more information about the countries that have recognised.

• Oppose This would be very difficult to achieve and would be counter-productive to the WP:SIZE problem. Bazonka (talk) 09:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

3. Add a brief summary to the countries that have recognised.

• Weak support This would need to be kept very brief so as not to affect WP:SIZE too much. Bazonka (talk) 09:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

4. Remove all old information from the non-recognisers, leaving just the most recent statements.

• Strong oppose This would be damaging as we would lose important historical background. Bazonka (talk) 09:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose; systematically removing information on a partisan basis is not a sane defence against the NPOV problem. bobrayner (talk) 16:25, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

5. Remove old information from the non-recognisers, except for significant changes of position.

• Oppose Whilst not as damaging as the previous option, this would still remove important background, except where there is clear duplication in the messages. Bazonka (talk) 09:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
• Maybe: When it's framed in terms of trimming one "side" but not another, it sounds bad; but focussing on "significant changes of position" is relatively sensible for any entry in this article, because it's already very long. bobrayner (talk) 16:25, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

6. Something else.

• Any suggestions? Bazonka (talk) 09:37, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, keep the article the way it is now. 79.243.219.183 (talk) 16:17, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

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