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Revision as of 06:12, 16 December 2012 editJoshuSasori (talk | contribs)7,580 edits →Requested move: puh-lease, the guy is a native English speaker.← Previous edit Revision as of 13:57, 16 December 2012 edit undoHijiri88 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users37,389 edits →Requested moveNext edit →
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:::::The sources consistently point to "Ryo". Ryo Kase is a native English speaker. He was born in the USA. His romanized name was not chosen for him by a translation agency. All information in Misplaced Pages is based on ], not on your opinions about how Japanese people should write their names. The sources all say "Ryo". End of discussion. ] (]) 06:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC) :::::The sources consistently point to "Ryo". Ryo Kase is a native English speaker. He was born in the USA. His romanized name was not chosen for him by a translation agency. All information in Misplaced Pages is based on ], not on your opinions about how Japanese people should write their names. The sources all say "Ryo". End of discussion. ] (]) 06:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::Sorry for posting out-of-date information regarding Japanese passport rules, although it was just intended to be a "fyi" rather than being directly related to this move discussion. My source was the printed instructions that came with the application for Japanese passports, although I see now from the link that JoshuSasori posted that the rules have been relaxed since 2009, allowing applicants to fill in a special form if they wish to use non-standard Romanized forms such as "Ryou" and "Ryoh". --] (]) 06:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC) :::::Sorry for posting out-of-date information regarding Japanese passport rules, although it was just intended to be a "fyi" rather than being directly related to this move discussion. My source was the printed instructions that came with the application for Japanese passports, although I see now from the link that JoshuSasori posted that the rules have been relaxed since 2009, allowing applicants to fill in a special form if they wish to use non-standard Romanized forms such as "Ryou" and "Ryoh". --] (]) 06:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
::::::Nothing I posted above is my opinion, and I have not made any normative statements about how Japanese "should" spell their names. I personally dislike "oh", and in real life I prefer when Japanese people with the name "亮" spell it with neither the macron or the "oh". But Misplaced Pages has a policy that favours macrons except in special circumstances. The sources that have been cited above (IMDb, Japanese Facebook pages, a dubious English translation of the website of his agency) are not reliable sources and they do not come directly from Mr. Kase, so they do not count as evidence that the non-macronned spelling is "the form personally or professionally used by the person". If what you say about Mr. Kase being a native English-speaker born in the USA is true, then there should be plenty of English sources in which he himself spells his name without a macron. If one such source can be found, I will change my vote. (The Facebook page using the non-macronned spelling doesn't count since, again, it is quite common practice to just leave it out sometimes for convenience, and the page not being written by him doesn't help.) ] (]) 13:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move

The request to rename this article to Ryo Kase has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Ryō Kase → Ryo Kase – The subject's name appears to be commonly written without a macron in English, as shown by his official agency profile, his official Facebook page, his IMDB entry, and this Japan Times article. --DAJF (talk) 08:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Support. I add The Independent and Variety to the sources above. Kauffner (talk) 04:11, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Support - I've only once ever seen anybody in Japan use macrons for Japanese people's names. I doubt Ryo Kase is any exception. JoshuSasori (talk) 04:38, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose - It needs to be pointed out that most of those "sources" conventionally avoid macrons, where Misplaced Pages conventionally favours them except in special cases. The fact is that his name is pronounced "Ryō", and the conventional romanization of his actual name (亮) is such. If we move this page based solely on a few sources that choose to spell his name in a particular way that contradicts Misplaced Pages policy, then why don't we move ALL the pages on similar topics? Every single Japanese person whose name has a long o or u and who has ever been mentioned in JT, etc., would therefore have to be moved. Misplaced Pages favours the macron except in special cases because it makes the name easier to read for people who know Japanese, and doesn't make it any more difficult for readers who don't. It's entirely possible that his passport, his official identification, spells his name as "Ryoh" or "Ryou" -- should we take this into account as well?? elvenscout742 (talk) 15:28, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
    The "wikipedia policy" which applies here is WP:JTITLE, and it's an open-and-shut case: the sources show that the person evidently does not use a macron personally or professionally. There is no "wikipedia policy" that all Japanese words should have macrons on them. JoshuSasori (talk) 15:48, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Just in passing, and for the benefit of Elvenscout742, if this (or any other) person's name is "亮", it is actually not possible that his (Japanese) passport will be printed as "Ryō", "Ryoh", or "Ryou", since these spellings are explicitly prohibited by the rules for how names are Romanized in Japanese passports. --DAJF (talk) 16:27, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Completely irrelevant discussion here, but I think "Ryoh" and "Ryou" are allowed: It looks like you have to sign a disclaimer. JoshuSasori (talk) 00:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Most Japanese passports I have seen prefer to use "oh" for the long o, but Misplaced Pages doesn't follow that convention. I would like to see a citation for DAJF's "rules" for Japanese passports. I still think that his agency (not himself) having an English version of their website is no indication that the policy specifically applies here. Most Japanese companies outsource work like the production of English-language websites to freelance translators, and none of the above sources therefore qualify under WP:JTITLE except possibly Facebook, and I don't see why we should take a Japanese-language Facebook page that uses a total of 12 English words as a source for an English-language encyclopedia article. elvenscout742 (talk) 05:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
The sources consistently point to "Ryo". Ryo Kase is a native English speaker. He was born in the USA. His romanized name was not chosen for him by a translation agency. All information in Misplaced Pages is based on reliable sources, not on your opinions about how Japanese people should write their names. The sources all say "Ryo". End of discussion. JoshuSasori (talk) 06:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for posting out-of-date information regarding Japanese passport rules, although it was just intended to be a "fyi" rather than being directly related to this move discussion. My source was the printed instructions that came with the application for Japanese passports, although I see now from the link that JoshuSasori posted that the rules have been relaxed since 2009, allowing applicants to fill in a special form if they wish to use non-standard Romanized forms such as "Ryou" and "Ryoh". --DAJF (talk) 06:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Nothing I posted above is my opinion, and I have not made any normative statements about how Japanese "should" spell their names. I personally dislike "oh", and in real life I prefer when Japanese people with the name "亮" spell it with neither the macron or the "oh". But Misplaced Pages has a policy that favours macrons except in special circumstances. The sources that have been cited above (IMDb, Japanese Facebook pages, a dubious English translation of the website of his agency) are not reliable sources and they do not come directly from Mr. Kase, so they do not count as evidence that the non-macronned spelling is "the form personally or professionally used by the person". If what you say about Mr. Kase being a native English-speaker born in the USA is true, then there should be plenty of English sources in which he himself spells his name without a macron. If one such source can be found, I will change my vote. (The Facebook page using the non-macronned spelling doesn't count since, again, it is quite common practice to just leave it out sometimes for convenience, and the page not being written by him doesn't help.) elvenscout742 (talk) 13:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
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