Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:56, 7 February 2013

Word of the (whenever):

• awkwardnessful

Foo ()

Malcolmxl5 (talk · contribs) has deleted redirects which you created at Bhaca dialect and IsiBhaca. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 20:42, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that! — kwami (talk) 21:01, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Base map

What base map did you create File:World marriage-equality laws.svg from? There are some odd territory issues I want to look at. Thanks, CMD (talk) 12:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

From the old map. Yeah, if you could verify the islands on both, that would be helpful. — kwami (talk) 13:03, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

The old map seems far more up to date. Islands seem to have disappeared in the creation of the new one, and some islands that are there are not the ones in the original, as their ids have gone a bit funny. I don't see how that could've happened, as we're not even talking about new areas in many cases. I'm thinking it may be easiest to recreate World marriage-equality laws from the old map again. What both could use that they currently lack is separate objects for England+Wales and Scotland, in the same way as some American, Brazilian, and Mexican states have their own objects. Are you able to do that? (I could do it, but only crudely by eyeballing a map and manually adjusting the object shapes.) CMD (talk) 20:08, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd say just copy over any missing islands. I may have thinned out the Antilles a bit. I didn't know they came with IDs. UK: I'd have to eyeball it too, since any map with them would likely be a different projection. — kwami (talk) 21:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

As much as I sympathise with thinning out the Antilles, as we're showing the number of places of something, the individual circles do help with numbers, if not specific countries. I'll give separating the legal areas of the UK a go then, if that makes sense to you. CMD (talk) 02:26, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I thinned them out because I couldn't identify them. I placed new dots based on a labeled map.

Yes, separating the UK may be a good idea, unless the leg all comes through at once. — kwami (talk) 02:28, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Lawu

http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/cr_files/2012-067_lwu.pdf

Well, no, it's a completely new language that was discovered recently. There's Lavu language (see also Lisoish languages), but that one has over 10,000 speakers. Lawu, as described by Cathryn Yang, has only 50 speakers.

Great find. — Stevey7788 (talk) 20:20, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, Yang mentioned in the ISO code change request that it's a Central Loloish ( = Lisoish) language. We can go ahead and create a stub anyways. — Stevey7788 (talk) 21:31, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Thalochi

Thanks for your great contributions to Misplaced Pages Language Articles. You being a true professional referring Mascica. But there is an aspect we should give due consideration is what the locals feel about their dialect because the are better Judge of how much their dialect approximates with any Language. So please check various district local web sites and give them as a reference on those articles. That will be a graet help. Please tell me your email because I will send you some important Microsoft excel data. sheets if u like. Maria0333 (talk) 07:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure.

How locals feel about their language is only relevant to sociolinguistics. I had a friend, a native speaker of English, who insisted that English was a Romance language, and that I was ridiculous for thinking it was Germanic. Just because someone speaks a language doesn't mean they know anything about its classification.

I am concerned about Jangvi, as Masica doesn't go into detail. — kwami (talk) 07:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

You are talking about one individual (Your Friend) but I am talking about Million of locals. Can we ignor them. You are reverting and trying to engage me an edit war but I will not revert them now. But I expect that you will realize and will do some research on Local web sites. Linguistic books present new theory after every few years but we need to check ground realities through local resources. You are a professional so I respect you.Maria0333 (talk) 07:23, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Local opinion is only a source for local opinion. For a linguistic claim we need a linguistic source. That's just how an encyclopedia works. People can be extraordinarily ignorant about their language, and millions of people just means millions who can be ignorant. Similarly, we wouldn't use local opinion for the nutritional value of the food they eat, nor about the mineral composition of the soil they till: what they believe may be very different from what is demonstrable. (In the US, for a long time people thought the soil in the Midwest was poor, when it's actually quite rich.) The basics our our sourcing policy is at WP:RS.

Also, what you're calling "edit warring" is me reverting you when you say the same thing twice, or moving minor detail out of the first sentence. — kwami (talk) 07:37, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree with basics of sourcing policy at WP:RS thats why i am asking you to please help these articles by adding local reliable sources. People could be confused about Food/ Soil contents but when a local can visit Lahore or Multan he can easily assess about the mutual intangibility of his dialect with language spoken in those cities because it is not a rocket science. Hope you will buy my point. Maria0333 (talk) 07:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Maria, I hope you understand that "local" and "reliable source" are actually contradictory for almost any linguistic topid under WP:RS guidelines. To take your example at face value, I could drive to the airport, catch a couple planes, and end up in Scotland tomorrow, where I can find individuals who are completely incomprehensible to me, even though they are speaking the English language. In that case, my subjective assessment that the Scotsman is speaking another language is completely erroneous, we just speak such vastly divergent dialects that we can't understand each other, even though there are many dialects with which both of us would be able to communicate with absolutely no reduced comprehension. Locals are, in fact, incredibly stupid about their language, largely because a person's experience of their language is so prejudiced towards their local dialect. An example of the last would be for me, as a speaker of Pacific Northwest English, I would say that /t/ is not allowed in the coda, even though this is demonstrably false in almost every other English dialect. VanIsaac_{WS Vex} 08:50, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually fault lies with us (linguistics) because we ignore the difference of definition of Language and definition of a dialect...Language means a totally incomprehensible for example English and Urdu. Although Urdu is actually a mix of many languages including English and lexical similarity is nearly 25% but it is of no use because there is no mutual intelligibility that why URDU is a different language from English. But when Geirision or Masica try to classify Chateesgarhi as a separate language then local people like us use to laugh because these are 80% comprehensible to us (Urdu/Hindi Speakers) and in fact a dialect with around 65% lexical similarity. Similarly Northern most Punjabi dialect Dogri is mutually intangible and comprehensible with southern most Derawali dialect of Punjabi. But out of blue moon in 1920 here comes Sir Geirison in India Pakistan and conduct a survey and divide Hindi/Urdu in to ten languages and Punjabi in to 2 languages one Eastern Punjabi other western Punjabi for which he just for seek of his self connivance uses the Punjabi word 'LAHNDA' which means Western. At the sudden LAHNDA emerges as a Language ignoring the fact that people of eastern and western dialects have no problem of calling them selves Punjabi and can easily communicate with each other. They failed to convince others what they are doing out of 200 words comparisons that's why every other person is not accepting these fake classifications. Examples Dhani, Pothohari, Shahpuri, Jhangvi, Jaangli, Chenavari, Thalochi People never accept these research and claim themselves as punjabi. Few exceptions are Southern dialects Multani Dera wali and Riasti (Bahawalpuri) who in 1964 after reading these researches under an political agenda (The wish to DEGRADE lahore The Capital Of Punjab against MULTAN because its older city then Lahore). So agenda was a separate identity creation with the name of Saraiki (Suddenly emerged in 1964) and to create a separate province (which could not be made till date). So Saraiki is claimed as a separate language not on the basis of Mutual intangibility but a matter of SOCIO POLITICO GAME. Similarly Hindko is extremly close to Punjabi of Lahore. But again the socio political game (Hindko is spoken in a Punjab's rival province KPK where Pashto speakers are in majority who call hindko as Punjabi and ask them to leave KPK, that's why Hindko people Claim and say NO NO we are not Punjabi we speak a separate language and they put forward Geirison research forward. So Hinko and Saraiki people today agree with these research but all other Punjabi Urdu/Hindi dialect people do not accept fake classifications. I call it fake because in Gerison research he says LAHNDA as separate language on the basis of 3 grounds. Number 1. Phonology. Punjabi 'B' 'D' with breath going out LAHNDA 'B' and 'D' breath going in. 'Bh', 'Gh' (Lahnda) = 'P', 'K' (Punjabi). QUESTION ARISES ARE THESE MAJOR DIFFERENCES? Number 2. Future and Past Tense. In Punjabi all the structure of Future is same as LAHNDA, only difference is the 'GA' in the end is replaced by 'S' in the middle. example KHA AN GAA= KHA S AN. In the past tense 'S' in the start is replaced by 'H' in the end example Mea Saan= Mea Haan. QUESTION AGAIN ARISES ARE THESE MAJOR DIFFRENCES? Number three: 5% Verbs/vocabulary minor borrowings from neighboring languages (Punjabi from Urdu and Lahanda from Sindhi) which is a natural practice by every language different dialects i.e. . Examples To Go= Vnj in sindhi and lahnda= Ja in Urdu and Punjabi. So we (Linguists) fail because we ignore the basic concepts of what is a language and what is a dialect. we are more calculators rather then real world ground reality analyzers. Thats why Govt of india recently rejected gierison work as not reliable one and has announced a fresh Language Research. U can search it on internet for ready reference. HOPE 2 CONVINCE YOU BECAUSE I HAVE SOUND GROUNDS FOR ALL THIS Maria0333 (talk) 17:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For your linguistic contributions. We will carry on this professional discussion later because I will be off now. Regards Maria0333 (talk) 07:59, 7 February 2013 (UTC)