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Revision as of 03:20, 20 May 2006

Mediation Case: 2006-05-18 Iraq War

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Request Information

Request made by: Zer0faults 20:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Where is the issue taking place?

...Talk:Iraq_War#Opening_Paragraph

Who's involved?

...Myself Zer0faults 20:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC), User:Mr. Tibbs and to a lesser extent User:Wombdpsw

What's going on?

...User:Mr. Tibbs insists the casus belli for the Iraq War was WMD. However the term casus belli states "formal declaration of war" the closest thing being [http://italy.usembassy.gov/pdf/other/H.J.Res.114_RDS.pdf HJ Res 114(PDF) which is the Congressional document "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq". He instead keeps posting links to what Powell said to the UN via CNN interviews and articles. The whole discussion is encompassed in trying to find a way to make the Iraq War articles opening paragraphs NPOV. I have tried finding middle grounds by offering to state all reasons for war, or none, and simply added that there were reasons other then WMD. None of those 3 compromises worked as he insists the opening paragraph he wrote stays the way he wrote it. He has even reverted stuff by User:Wombdpsw without stating a reason in the history.

What would you like to change about that?

...I would like User:Mr. Tibbs to at consider a middle ground, its WMD as reason and only reason or nothing it seems.

If you'd prefer we work discreetly, how can we reach you?

...webmaster@anarchys99.com however discreetly isnt particularly necessary.

Would you be willing to be a mediator yourself, and accept a mediation assignment in a different case?

This is, following the Categorical Imperative, the idea that you might want to do

what you expect others to do. You don't have to, of course, that's why it's a question.

...Sure if I know of the topic and feel I won't have a bias.

Mediator response

Evidence

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The following comment was offensive and used by User:Mr. Tibbs:

"Again you are being purposely obtuse so you can editwar your POV into the article. Stop it"

he then went on to state:

"I have made no personal attacks. However I have ceased to assume good faith and realize full well what you are doing. Which is Purposely being obtuse about "casus belli" a term that I readded to the article in the first place. And Purposely distorting what HJ Res 114 is. And it's sad that I have to cease assuming good faith, but assume good faith does not mean "bend over""

So I have been called obtuse, and then accused of attempting to "Purposely distorting what HJ Res 114 is" and finally User:Mr. Tibbs has admitted that he will "cease assuming good faith" Even though he has never even attempted a compromise. --Zer0faults 22:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Compromise offers

This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

State all the reasons listed in HJ Res 114 in the opening paragraphs. State none of the reasons for going to war that appear in HJ Res 114. Specifically state the full reason in HJ Res 114 for WMD's being a threat, which is: they may be used on his own population, given to terrorists or used against US interests or Armed forces. Find another term other then casus belli as the pages stated definition does not match its use.

Comments by others

I would like the mediator to be aware that a very similiar situation just happened on 2003 Invasion of Iraq. In fact a vote was attempted to try and cease the edit war. A vote on the same issue was also conducted on the Iraq War page. Despite the community consensus showed by the vote Zer0faults continued to revert claiming that a "majority on talk page is not suitable grounds for removal". I think a similar straw poll could also easily resolve this dispute, but I am concerned that given Zero's history he will again refuse to abide by it. I would also like to note that I am unwilling to argue endlessly on various talkpages like Zero apparently wants. Also note the editwars on these pages regarding the same "Part of the War on Terror" phrase: Waziristan War, United States invasion of Afghanistan and similiar articles listed on this template: Template:War on Terrorism. -- Mr. Tibbs 21:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Really all thats need here is a simple straw poll initiated and monitored by an Admin Stating "Users who think the casus belli of the 2003 Invasion of Iraq was WMD" and another column for those who don't. But I am unwilling to let an intro that was forged by a group effort to be churned up so flippantly. -- Mr. Tibbs 21:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

While using the talk page of the article in question to solve a dispute is encouraged to involve a larger audience, feel free to discuss the case below if that is not possible. Other mediators are also encouraged to join in on the discussion as Misplaced Pages is based on consensus.

Discussion

Unfortunatly I will not adhere to a straw poll since too many times I have seen users state information that is not factual on both sides. Mr. Tibbs himself during that straw poll in 2003 invasion of Iraq even questioned if a user knew what they were voting for, so I am sure he sees this happening. The problem is unfortunatly that Anoranza and Mr. Tibbs have decided to go around to all articles that contain the information "war on terror" and added : US Dubbed , US Coined, (this term is disputed) etc to those articles without discussions. Perhaps they felt that since people in one article though the term was in dispute that the non binding straw poll then held domain over all other articles. Oddly enough Anoranza has stated Afghanistan was part of the War On Terror but Iraq was not, then continued to change Afghanistan to state the term was disputed. This is another example of people voting to get across a political agenda instead of to input factual information into the articles. I have tried 3 times to reach a middle ground with Mr. Tibbs however he states constantly that he will not accept any changes that do not particularly state WMD's as the casus belli. He has even gone as far as to state the Congressional resolution "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq" is not valid for casus belli because Powell did not state all those reasons in front of the UN, however he fails to see that reasons put before the UN wouldnt have to be in a formal declaration of war for the US.

I am not against stating that WMD were a heavy influence, however casus belli refers to the "formal declaration of war" and HJ Res 114 is the closest thing considering the war has technically never ended, its been in a cease-fire.

I offered the following in terms of a compromise, changing:

The 2003 invasion was undertaken by a multinational "Coalition of the willing" led by the United States and the United Kingdom, which invaded Iraq and deposed Saddam Hussein's government on the basis that Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass destruction and so was a threat to the world

to

The 2003 invasion was undertaken by a multinational "Coalition of the willing" led by the United States and the United Kingdom. The reason that was most publicized for the invasion was the that Iraq was in possession of weapons of mass destruction and was willing to share those weapons with terrorist organizations, use them on his own civilian population or against the United States directly.

simply expanding on the reasons why WMD's were even an issue and that was completely ignored. --Zer0faults 22:20, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

No, this "compromise" is unacceptable. The Iraq disarmament crisis touched off the 2003 Invasion of Iraq not the "Iraq Terrorism Crisis". -- Mr. Tibbs 02:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Having read the discussion I believ that whilst Mr Tibbs is correct in tha fact that Iraq disarmament crisis was the major contributing factor to the war it should not be promoted as the ONLY reason.Zerofaults is offering the best compromise IMO which Mr Tibbs is refusing to accept for whatever reason. Perhaps this would be better to submit to the mediation commitee rather than this cabal as it is a high profile topic. -- Tmorton166 (Errant Emote) 10:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Tmorton, how would I go about submitting this to mediation committee? Or better yet is there an admin around who would setup and monitor a vote on Iraq War to resolve this dispute? -- Mr. Tibbs 03:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)