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****All right, then, at present at least, we are in agreement to close this as declined, and so are all the admins here. I think this thing is pretty much ready to close. ] ] 00:48, 30 September 2013 (UTC) ****All right, then, at present at least, we are in agreement to close this as declined, and so are all the admins here. I think this thing is pretty much ready to close. ] ] 00:48, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}

==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by GRuban==

<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>

; Appealing user : {{userlinks|GRuban}} – ] (]) 15:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

; Sanction being appealed : Block and topic ban of ] . <Text>

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Fluffernutter}}

; Notification of that administrator : ''The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.''

===Statement by GRuban===

From and it looks like KoshVorlon was blocked for insisting on retaining the justification for his !vote on ], specifically: "Bradley Manning is a guy". This is selective enforcement: Fluffernutter writes "The discussion guidelines made clear that comments about what gender you feel Manning is or is allowed to be are off-topic", however you will notice that the justifications "Chelsea Manning is a woman" by ], "she is a woman", by ], and "Chelsea Manning is a woman", by ] have been allowed to stand. This has been extensively discussed on the ], and on ]. <small>(FWIW, I haven't voiced an opinion in the move request itself.)</small> --] (]) 15:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

===Statement by Fluffernutter===

===Statement by (involved editor 1)===

===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by GRuban ===

===Result of the appeal by GRuban===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- Please notify the appellant in the event of a successful appeal, in addition to logging it on the case page. ] informs users that "If you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful."-->
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->

Revision as of 15:06, 2 October 2013

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    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Jiujitsuguy

    Appeal is declined at this time. Jiujitsuguy may file another appeal following further positive editing in no less than three months. Seraphimblade 14:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Jiujitsuguy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction being appealed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=503267313&oldid=503208820
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    T. Canens.
    Notification of that administrator
    notified

    Statement by Jiujitsuguy

    Per the advice and constructive criticism offered by Stifle and concurrence of Cailil I am resubmitting my appeal. In the break between my last appeal and the instant one, I have created articles and added content on a variety of subjects including archeology, orthopedics, military history and weapon systems. I have edited constructively, in a collegial, collaborative and non-confrontational manner. I understand now that my previous editing pattern was abrasive and tendentious. In addition, rather than seeking to reconcile differences with a colleague with whom I was having a dispute, I moved too quickly to AE, which was entirely inappropriate. AE should never be used as a tool to silence anyone and should be avoided when possible. I will try hard not to repeat the past mistakes that have led me to the instant topic ban, now in its 14th month.

    I also wish to offer my sincerest apologies to T. Canens for misconstruing his disciplinary actions and acting with haste in making groundless accusations against him. I blame my lack of maturity for the tasteless outburst and I am embarrassed by it.

    I sincerely hope that in light of my constructive editing, the fact that I've expressed contrition and recognize my mistakes, the fact that I’ve embraced the suggestions of the aforementioned syops rather than arguing with them, the fact that I’ve already been banned for a year and two months and the fact that I have zealously adhered to the provisions of the topic ban, that the ban be lifted. Whichever way you decide, I thank you for taking the time to consider my appeal and will of course respect your decision. I do however, hope that you will look favorably upon it. Thank you.

    • Stifle had suggested that I submit an appeal in 2 months after productive editing (I would be minded to consider a further appeal in no less than two months' time). I believed that Cailil offered concurrence. I did what I was told and followed the prescribed course of action. Sandstien was concerned that my previous appeal had not addressed the reasons for the ban and that I did not understand what I did wrong. This appeal does address the reason for the ban and expresses sincere contrition. Yes I had been T-banned before (and not 6 times as had been suggested) but this is the longest T-ban that I’ve been required to serve. I’ve shown evidence of reformation and productive editing, have expressed sincere contrition and acknowledged wrong-doing. The length of the instant ban and the fact that I’ve zealously adhered to the ban’s restrictions should also serve to militate in my favor. I hope you look favorably on this request. Thank you.
    • I Note further that both TDA and RolandR have commented under "uninvolved." That is a bit disingenuous as a brief review of their editing history will show that they are involved up to their necks and their motivations for excluding me should be regarded as suspect. RolandR's mention of the August 2010 ban is also disingenuous because he very well knows that the syop who imposed the sanction undid his action almost immediately following ArbCom involvement and that the ancient matter had been resolved in my favor. I also find it disconcerting that only TDA and RolandR are cited by some commenting syops but editors who expressed support for my position have been ignored. I think that, considering the current length of the T-ban, another year of a T-ban on top of the fourteen months already served, is draconian. You have my word that if you lift the T-ban and following that, I get out of line or revert to tendentiousness, you can ban me infinitely and I won't issue any protest. That's how sincere this request is and that's how confident I am in my belief that I will not engage in any editing that will result in a sanction.
    • As further evidence of the sincerity of my request, should the ban be lifted, I will take it upon myself to voluntarily refrain from editing the topic area for an additional three months and further, will will refrain from partaking in any AE action for a period of 1 year. The days of me locking horns and duking it out with fellow editors are over. I simply wish to edit peacefully and productively.
    @Cailil I can appreciate your concerns and that is why I proposed the above criteria as an additional safeguard. The request is sincere (some might say groveling) and I have imposed on myself self-constraints. Like I said, if I engage in any purposeful transgression, you can easily ban my ass into oblivion without protest.
    @Heimstern Läufer I am asking you to please not close this as declined. I am asking you to please consider my request as genuine and sincere. I am asking that in the event that you do decline to please allow me the opportunity to resubmit and considering the fact that the ban is already 14 months long, to please allow me to re-submit within 3 months commencing with August 19.
    White flag. I give up.

    Statement by Timotheus Canens

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Jiujitsuguy

    Statement by The Devil's Advocate

    Jiujitsuguy had appealed the topic ban just two months ago and has only made 113 edits in the past month and made no edits in the month immediately following his appeal. This second appeal seems hasty, especially given the reason for his topic ban from ARPBIA areas. I think this appeal should be declined. Perhaps AE admins should consider giving JJG some strict bounds determining when he can appeal again. Not just a time limit, but strict editing criteria so that he will not be able to appeal until he has truly demonstrated editing that makes a future appeal worthy of some consideration.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:19, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

    To be clear, I think the ARBPIA topic area is better served without JJG being able to edit there. I would not rule out the possibility that he could prove himself trustworthy regarding the topic, but a very high bar should be set for him. In the mere eight months I knew of JJG's participation in that topic he had tried to use a tour guide about a mountain ski resort to effectively claim the Golan Heights were Israeli territory, repeatedly added a Nazi flag to the Arab side of the belligerents section of the 1948 War because a handful of former Nazis participated in the conflict, and tried to get an opponent sanctioned for "misrepresenting sources" for attributing a statement to the citation following it when JJG was the one who actually put the statement before that citation in the first place. The levels of blatant bad faith he showed with regards to that topic area, while pushing an extremely obvious POV agenda, and his weak-willed efforts at proving his worth following the topic ban do nothing to inspire confidence.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 04:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by EatsShootsAndLeaves

    100% in agreement with TDA's statement. Nothing in their actions show substantive changes which are required for appeals - mostly there's no changes because they've done nothing, and thus cannot prove anything ES&L 21:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by AgadaUrbanit

    The ban is quite old, from July 2012. AE's aim is not to punish, but try to prevent further disruption. If editors follow guidance of administrators in good faith, the evidence is the constructive contributions, it is reasonable to assume that their ban to be lifted. I doubt that quantity is not sufficient, and clearly it is not a question of quantity, rather a question of quality. I reviewed JJG's latest contributions which beyond doubt improve this tree of knowledge we're growing here. Therefore I would not mind JJG's ban to be lifted. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 12:40, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Marokwitz

    Based on past activity, I believe that Jiujitsuguy can be a good and constructive editor. I believe his/her recent statements and edits are good evidence that the editor would conduct himself differently in the future. Therefore I recommend lifting the topic ban. The editor can always be topic banned again, if the need arises, so I see no risk in giving him another chance. Marokwitz (talk) 11:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by RolandR

    Indeed, "the editor can always be topic banned again". As he has been several times already: indefinitely in August 2010, for three months in December 2010, six months in March 2011 extended for a further two months in July 2011, and indefinitely in both January 2012and July 2012. Therre seems very little evidence here of improvement or of learning from experience. RolandR (talk) 12:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Jiujitsuguy

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Hmm, this is definitely an improvement on the last appeal, as there's been some editing that appears, at a glance, to have been productive and unproblematic. A month of good editing is good, but it's still only a month. I'm not convinced that's enough of a pattern for a successful appeal just yet, particlularly in an area as conflict-rife as I-P. I do think it's on the right path now (unless I've missed something in Jiujitsuguy's editing), but I'm not convinced it's gone on long enough. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:24, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm pretty much on the same wavelength as Heimstern about this. Jiujitsuguy you're on the right track you just need to keep going like this for a few more months. As Heimstern mentions the I/P area is conflict ridden and a month's progress is not enough for us to make a judgement call on. Again keep up the positive editing and appeal again.
      To other sysops: I think TDA's point about giving Jiujitsuguy a target for another appeal is a good call I'd suggest: no less than 3 months more consecutive editing - that would mean if he keeps making progress late December 2013. Does any one else have any views on this?--Cailil 12:20, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
      • Three months is reasonable if we want to set a specific recommended time frame. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 08:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
        • Though with the rather long history here, as pointed out by RolandR, I now think that's too short. I don't think I'd be ready to consider an appeal without at least six months under these conditions. Even longer would be better. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:07, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
          • With cognizance of the comments above and below I'd agree. 1 year of consecutive editing without problems. Giving that this ban is the consequence of 5 escalating bans, long term good behaviour would be needed to be evidenced for any sysop to reverse this ban.
            So I'd suggest declining with a minimum length of 1 year (from August) before appealing again--Cailil 20:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
            • @Jiujitsuguy: - I agreed with User:Stifle that your last appeal be declined and I also stated clearly that "indef bans can't be waited out".
              You need to adjust your thinking here - this is not a matter of "I've not broken the ban for 14 months ... therefore lift it", it's a case of showing sustained productive editing outside the I/P area. There were a sum total of 16 name space edits between September 21st 2012 and August 19th 2013. After that you made c. 110 name space edits. This (126) is insufficient evidence of someone with a long track record of second chances as having got the message. While once again I commend your recent editing, I will advise you that it's going to take more of this good behaviour to overturn this ban. Strictly speaking quantity of edits is not the only criteria, consistency, calmness and willingness to focus on other topics is good - but we can only see a major change in attitude within the context of a large number of edits over a long period of time--Cailil 12:23, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I would agree with Heimstern and Cailil. This is definitely the right track, and I commend Jiujitsuguy for taking it, but it's just not quite long enough yet. JJG, if you keep this up for a few months and come back to appeal then to have the restrictions lifted, that appeal would stand a very good chance of being granted. Seraphimblade 19:39, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
    • RolandR points out that Jiujitsuguy has been topic-banned from this topic area no less than six times by five separate admins (including myself, apparently). That's ... impressive. On the basis of this history, I would decline the appeal and retain the topic ban infinitely. I'm all for second chances, but not so much for seventh chances.  Sandstein  13:30, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by GRuban

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    GRuban (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – GRuban (talk) 15:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Block and topic ban of User:KoshVorlon . <Text>
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Fluffernutter (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

    Statement by GRuban

    From this diff and this explanation it looks like KoshVorlon was blocked for insisting on retaining the justification for his !vote on Talk:Bradley Manning/October 2013 move request, specifically: "Bradley Manning is a guy". This is selective enforcement: Fluffernutter writes "The discussion guidelines made clear that comments about what gender you feel Manning is or is allowed to be are off-topic", however you will notice that the justifications "Chelsea Manning is a woman" by User:Georgia guy, "she is a woman", by User:Konveyor Belt, and "Chelsea Manning is a woman", by User:I JethroBT have been allowed to stand. This has been extensively discussed on the Fluffernutter's talk page, and on WP:ANI. (FWIW, I haven't voiced an opinion in the move request itself.) --GRuban (talk) 15:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Fluffernutter

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by GRuban

    Result of the appeal by GRuban

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.