Revision as of 16:54, 15 June 2006

Announcements

Votes for deletion

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Israeli apartheid (phrase)
• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Apartheid wall

To do

Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Ari Sephardic Synagogue  • Beit Hadassah  • Beit Wittenberg  • Excellent Zion Synagogue  • Yitzhak Ben-Ruby  • History of the Jews in Belgrade  • History of the Jews in Berlin  • History of the Jews in Budapest • History of the Jews in Essaouira  • History of the Jews in Lublin  • History of the Jews in Lviv  • History of the Jews in Marseille  • History of the Jews in Tangier • History of the Jews in Tétouan  • History of the Jews in Vilnius  • History of the Jews in Warsaw  • History of the Pope's Jews in Provence  • History of the Spanish and Portuguese Jews in France  • Isaac Yaso • Jewish Battalion of the Ukrainian Galician Army  • Jewish economics • Jews and the diamond trade • Youra Livchitz  • Menahem Zion Synagogue  • Joseph Nehama  • Occult writers and antisemitism • Ohel Moed Synagogue  • Ohel Moshe, Jerusalem  • Omri Teg'Amlak Avera  • Pogroms in Belarus during the Russian Civil War  • Salomon Israel Cherezli  • Switzerland and the Holocaust • Synagogue of Bayonne  • Tiflisites  • United Kingdom and the Holocaust • Utrera Synagogue  • Vinohrady Synagogue  • World Sephardi Federation  • House of Yamin Benarroch  • Yefet Alemu • Zelbshuts • Rothschild Miscellany • Leipzig Mahzor • Israel David Luzzatto • Arie Leib ben Daniel • Yichus Ha'Avot • Ilya Galant  • Abraham ben Isaac Shalom • Raschi-Haus Museum  • Isaac ben Meir of Dueren  • Rafael Mirami (Rafael Mirami (Q18945760)) • Francesco Rovai (Francesco Rovai (Q108251236)) • Abramo Pesaro • Leone Ravenna • Aryeh Shankar  • Yehiel Chlenov  • Jacob Nunes Gois  • Giuseppe Jaré • Palmon ben Pelet • Maks Erik  • Shlomo Simonsohn  • Moshe Hallamish  • Menachem Mendel Krengel  • Benedictus de Castro  • Hammelburg Mahzor • Leo Fuks • Moses Frankfurter • Naftali Herz Levi Rofé • Joseph Dayyan Cleanup : History of the Jews in Austria • History of the Jews in Rome Expand : Way of the Patriarchs • V-2 missile launch site, Blizna • SS-Truppenübungsplatz Heidelager • Knowledge of the Holocaust in Nazi Germany and German-occupied Europe • Susman Kiselgof • Joachim Stutschewsky • Sidi Tal • The Holocaust in France • Jews in New York City • History of the Jews in Kraków • Jews in Istanbul • History of the Jews in İzmir NPOV : Yahweh • Zionist antisemitism Stubs : Category:Jewish history stubs, Category:Jewish biography stubs Update : Jewish quota

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Discussions

Participant template

This may seem a little like the four sixteen year olds who think that finding a good name for their band is the key to success, but I started thinking about the right iconography for our participant template. The Magen David is already "taken" by the Wikiproject on Judaism, so I have some options for discussion. It seems to me that we should find an image that is characteristically Jewish but has more to do with history than religion. Here are some ideas - feel free to add:

• A dreidel
• A (seven armed) menorah
• A mezuzah holder
• A Hebrew character, probably an Alef, though perhaps Chet-Yod (Chai, "life") might be uplifting
• A scroll

I'm partial to the Chai, as it reflects vitality, surely the most important characteristic of Jewish history. --Leifern 11:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I like the chai idea myself. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 13:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

from a historical perspective the menorah is more of a symbol of the Jewish people. In fact when archeologists find a magen david their first thought is that the site is fake. This is why on ancient coin you see many menorot but no magen davids. Jon513 19:58, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

חי would be lovely. Alternatively, we could use this famous "clover leaf" map of the world with center in Jerusalem. ←Humus sapiens 23:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly either way; my only concern about the Menorah is that it has a strong religious connotation - in fact, I would have preferred it rather than the Magen David in the Judaism wikiproject, but that issue is resolved. I think the clover leaf map is awesome and has just the right element of chutzpah to fill me with a little bit of glee. So, how should we decide? --Leifern 23:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, why not choose Chutzpa? A couple of arguments for the map: it is a map of the world (signifying the series History of the Jews in ... ), with center in Jerusalem. Its icon was adopted by . ←Humus sapiens 23:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. And it looks pretty groovy. --Leifern 23:58, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Great! ←Humus sapiens 00:05, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed the Jewish-Christian category because it's religious. I was thinking it would be good to steer this project away from religion, but please feel free to revert me. SlimVirgin 01:33, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Completely agree. While I sifted through the Cats, I found that we have Category:Anarchism and Judaism and Category:Jewish anarchists. Thoughts? ←Humus sapiens 01:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that map looks pretty cool, but I was under the impression it was made and used by the Christian world, so it seems like it is only partially related to Judaism. Am I wrong?- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 12:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

No idea who used it, it seems unusable as a map. My POV: to me, Jerusalem as the center of the world is the most important here. If JCPA uses its outline as their logo, it works for me as well. Feel free to make a better offer, we can even decide to combine a couple of icons. ←Humus sapiens 19:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't really mean they used it as a map or anything, I meant that it was mainly a Christian Medieval practice of including Jerusalem at the center of all maps.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 01:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm open for anything better. ←Humus sapiens 05:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I think I'm actually fine with anything, I don't even know why I even argued.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Moshe, I believe you are correct. Given the orgin (time and judenrein place) of the woodcut, one can easily conclude that it was made by antisemites for antisemites. I pointed out as much last month. Please read it. I think it's as appropriate a logo for this project as the Palestinian Authority logo would be for the Israel project. Of course, this is just my opinion. What's yours?Doright 19:46, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Did you see the JCPA logo? In general, I am against retreating every time we meet (or suspect) antisemities. Why should they own our symbols? Anyway, here's an alternative

This user is a member of the Jewish History Wikiproject.

Feel free to replace if you like it. ←Humus sapiens 09:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Humus, there is no retreat. The Woodcut made by and for Christian Antisemites would be a great art object logo for Christian History. Admittedly, it's a small point, but Jerusalem is important to Christians too and has an entirely different meaning than to Jews. See Crusades This is no more a retreat than refusing to call The Torah the Old Testament. It seems what you call not retreating, I call assimilating. Perhaps you can find a map of Jerusalem that relates to Jewish History rather than Christian History. Yes, I Did see the JCPA logo. Interesting, huh? Doright 05:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, since seems less controversial, I took the liberty to switch the template image. ←Humus sapiens 09:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Humus. Of the options I've seen, I agree that it's best.Doright 07:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Hasidic history artciles on AFD

Many articles, particularly on Hasidic rebbes have been proposed for deletion by User:PZFUN. See . jnothman 12:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Why PZFUN chose to discredit himself by going after those 36 rabbis (coincindence with lamed vav?) is beyond me. --Shuki 23:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

all Jewish summer camps on AFD

Can anyone tell me if wp isn't otherwise lenient on parochial enitities like the entire content of Category: Jewish summer camps he wants deleted? Should the camps he nominated for afd be relegated to a 'list of'? I disagree. --Shuki 23:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Dual Jewish History/Judaism wikiproject userbox

Is anyone opposed to creating a userbox that says something like "This user is is a member of the Judaism/Jewish History Wikiproject"?- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Note that there is also Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jewish culture. ←Humus sapiens 22:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Query on voting (was: Introducing myself... )

I've done some lite editing of the article noted above, International response to the Holocaust -- though as I haven't anything substantive to add at present, it remains in need of attention.
This is my modest offering by way of introducing myself to the Jewish history project... Deborahjay 15:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome, feel yourself at home! Please review the announcements above and consider voting. ←Humus sapiens 20:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! For affiliation's sake (and as a handy link), I've added the Jewish History WikiProject userbox to my User Page  :-)

Holocaust topics will continue to be my main focus, but others in this Project will no doubt come in time.

As I'm a rookie at Misplaced Pages editing, I find the prospect of voting a bit daunting -- though I'm certainly willing to participate and exercise my good judgment. How might you suggest I familiarize myself with the process? (e.g. guidelines, previous examples, etc.) Deborahjay 05:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Ignore if this feels overwhelming. I meant #Announcements at the top of this page. ←Humus sapiens 08:31, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Gotcha -- thanks.

As it happens, the particular pair of articles noted there now are terms in the contemporary Israeli lexicon that are particular bêtes noires of mine, as an editor and human rights activist. Having glanced at the discussion, I'm giving some hard thought about what, if anything, I may have to contribute there. :-/

Deborahjay 16:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Nominations for v0.5

Let's think of other important well written articles worthy of Misplaced Pages:Version 0.5 Nominations. The Template:Jew is a good starting point. ←Humus sapiens 20:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Concentration camp Theresienstadt

Regarding Concentration camp Theresienstadt, I've raised some issues about the article's name and the language used therein (concentration camp vs. ghetto).
Would appreciate your input on the discussion page there. Thanks, Deborahjay 05:47, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorting stubs (in List of...): bio or not?

I've just discovered the "List of " Jewish history and biography stubs. These are indeed handy tools for me, as I'm seeking articles for expansion in my subject fields of expertise (Holocaust and Israel).

Am just wondering, though: were these lists created by manual insertion of the topics? It seems to me that quite a few individuals' names appear in the "history" list rather than the "bio"... and if this isn't due to some factors I fail to appreciate, might it be worthwhile to move them, for the sake of enhanced utility let alone consistency?

NB: I did note that what's called the "Jewish biography" stubs list is for "people notable in connection with Judaism" . If that wording is to indicate the Jewish religion in particular, rather than Jewish history in general (i.e. the other list of stubs), I wouldn't have expected to find Mordechai Gebirtig there. Essentially, I don't get it!  :-/

If this is simply a matter of reviewing the two lists and manually placing people > bios, all other topics > history, I'll volunteer to undertake the task -- but shall wait for feedback here lest I tamper inadvertently with an existing mechanism as yet unfamiliar to me.
:-) Deborahjay 19:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

JE citation format

I've been working on converting a lot of Jewish Encyclopedia articles to Misplaced Pages and I've developed what I think is a good citation format for the reference section that incorporates both the JE article itself and the sources for that article. For example:

• Gottheil, Richard and Samuel Krauss. "Onias." Jewish Encyclopedia. Funk and Wagnalls, 1901-1906, which cites to the following ibliography:

• H. P. Chajes, Beiträge zur Nordsemitischen Onomatologie, p. 23, Vienna, 1900 (on the name);
• Herzfeld, Gesch. des Volkes Jisrael, i. 185-189, 201-206;
• Grätz, Gesch. 2d ed., ii. 236;
• Schürer, Gesch. 3d ed., i. 182, 194-196; iii. 97-100;
• Niese, in Hermes, xxxv. 509;
• Wellhausen, I. J. G. 4th ed., p. 248, Berlin, 1901;
• Willrich, Juden und Griechen vor der Makkabäischen Erhebung, pp. 77, 109, Göttingen, 1895;
• A. Büchler, Die Tobiaden und die Oniaden, pp. 166, 240, 275, 353, Vienna, 1899;
• J. P. Mahaffy, The Empire of the Ptolemies, pp. 217, 353, London, 1895;
• Gelzer, Sextus Julius Africanus, ii. 170-176, Leipsic, 1885;
• Weiss, Dor, i. 130 (on the halakic view of the temple of Onias).

My reasoning is that if you're going to take a public domain article wholesale from some source you should identify the sources cited in that article (saying "this article came from JE" when the article is a verbatim repetition of the JE text doesn't seem very helpful).

I'd like to try and get this accepted as a standard, but obviously not without some consensus on the issue. Does anyone have any thoughts on the issue? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 12:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It's a great idea! Jayjg 16:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)