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Massacres and the Dog on the Tuckerbox

Moved the following from history, where I will copy edit there. Additions from IPs 203.54.186.125 and 203.54.186.125 on 5, 6 and 17 June 2006.

Gundagai is known for an image of a dog on a box. This symbolism is more recently based on a poem about a bullock waggon stuck in the mud near Gundagai pre gazettal of Gundagai as a town in 1838. This bullock waggon carried a load of flour for the European settlers. The flour had to come from the mill at Goulburn. There was a severe drought happening. The flour on the bogged bullock wagon was rifled while the bullock driver was in the nearby hotel and subsequently, the remaining flour was laced with arsenic. More flour was taken from the waggon by Aboriginal people with the end result being there were many deaths. The massacre was heard about in Sydney and was investigated, but no one was able to be held to account. For many years the event was told and retold and a dog figure, representing an aspect of Australian Aboriginal lore, was placed on a stick at the Nine Mile near where the massacre happened. A photo exists of this earlier Dog monument. The story was passed down among long-time Gundagai residents and is still spoken about in Gundagai today but for many years when it was mentioned, people were told not to speak about it. The story was also retold in a popular Australian poem by Jack Moses but from a different, perhaps less challenging, perspective which explained the lingering tale that just would not go away. The known disparity between, and debate about, whether the event happened at the Five Mile or Nine Mile is to do with this. There are archival records documentating this iconic and significant Australian cultural heritage. The Gundagai incident is independent of the Benalla one. The Benalla massacre (if it is the 'Faithfull Massacre)was the one that led to Gundagai being gazetted. I have copies of the original documents of the line of communication being put through to Melbourne after the Faithfull Massacre. The Coolac Massacre story is still well known in Gundagai but not spoken about publically. There is no original research required for the Coolac Massacre as that it happened has never been forgotten in this town. The first poems about the massacre appeared in the 1850s. The monument to the massacre was built in 1932 and that monument is identical to a major Indigenous Ancestral feature. The Gundagai Independent in about October 2005 has some content. The Coolac massacre is currently part of not yet completed archaeological surveying in that area as reported online on ABC News. NSW National Parks have been notified of where the massacre remains were put. This burial area from the 1830s was previously known to National Parks. NSWNP do not release all information they hold. The massacre is spoken of in Gundagai's verse and song, the 'Dog' being 'first man' in Aboriginal culture. There are other supporting documents such as Tindale's letters and others. ({{fact}}<!--very interesting but need some sources please; note this reads very much like an incident near present day Benalla on 11 April 1838 - were there two or is there confusion?-->(citation requested and comment inserted by AYArktos) There were many many massacres of Indigenous people in Australia. I am not Indigenous. My family have lived at Gundagai since the 1840s which is not long after the massacre happened.

--A Y Arktos\ 20:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Note citations have been requested. Doesn't mean I don't believe it. It is Misplaced Pages policy though that things are Verifiable.--A Y Arktos\ 20:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The RTA content you note is 2004 content so out of date. This is 2006. There have been two new lots of archs since then.

Given the site of the massacre wasnt known till this year yet you put up stuff that talks about what was known in 2004.

THIS IS 2006, NOT 2004. What is an ongoing investigative process has progressed to 2006. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.128 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10 hours)

• So far I am not finding anything on the web about this massacre

• • http://www.cat.org.au/forgottenwar/narrandera.html mentions the Wiradjuri wars but not this incident.
  • http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructionmaintenance/downloads/coolac_environreview.pdf discusses a massacre near coolac but in the following terms: "A local resident provided information about the possibility of an Aboriginal massacre site occurring in the general area between Mingay and Pettit. The reliability and exact location of the massacre site has yet to be determined, however, one unconfirmed suggestion is that it is close to Muttama Creek, or in general proximity of the current highway alignment. As the reliability of the information and definite location of the site could not verified,..."

Given the recent RTA environmental review at Coolac has failed to turn anything up, I am inclined to remove the reference as not meeting WP:V.--A Y Arktos\ 21:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The RTA review has not failed to find anything to do with this massacre. You are quoting an out of date RTA publication.

remove the Coolac Massacre from here. Wik does not have the skills to have it. I have several citations but am not prteapred to put them here at this stage... or ever now. People can do their own research and I will relese the citations to those who I choose to have them, not you silly lot at it strikes me, here is too silly to deserve to have them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.128 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10 hours)

• If you wish to contribute to the wikipedia then you need to read our policies on Verifiability. You need to cite sources. I may have cited a 2004 source - at least I cited something!

There are numerous poems that cite this massacre. Some will be online.

If there is a more recent RTA review or any other review - please feel free to reference it.

You should have seen that 2004 date on the RTA material you noted and have realised it was way out of date.

Use the poems about the massacre as citations but then .... that requires skill in textual analysis to recognise those poems are citations. If you have those skills you will cite them.

There is a lot of material but it mostly requires particular skills to be able to use so it may be wasted here.

Whatever, its best the Coolac Massacre is not noted here I now think. I didnt realise wik was so silly as its not a source researchers use.

No reliable source, no entry in the wikipedia - nothing to do with skills, all to do with No original research, which is policy.--A Y Arktos\ 01:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

From that i have head about this 'massacre' is that a Neville Williams who is a Wiradjuri Aboriginal clams that there was a 'massacre' there (I think he did the same type of thing at West Wyalong trying to stop the Lake Cowal gold mine) so far nothing has been found at the site to prove this. All i know is at the moment a museum is holding up the Coolac bypass.

Who is Robert Myers. You do not know much if you think a Museum is holding up the Coolac Bypass. The Coolac Bypass is not held up. It just is not ready to start yet. It will start when the funding is released by the Federal Government, (on 1 July) then after that the preferred tenderer needs to get its complex operations into place so they can start. This preferred tenderer hasnt even be awarded the contract yet so who in your mind is to build the bypass? Noddy? Contractors cant be hired and huge construction jobs cant start if the money to pay them has not been paid in by the governemnt. Those who claim all these other things re a fanciful holdup are having delusions.

Neville Williams is a highly respected Aboriginal Elder who lobbies to have Aboriginal heritage saved or at least recorded. Yes he did lobby re Lake Cowal. Many Australians lobbied re the Snowy Sale because of its heritage aspects. Is there something wrong with saving haritage or is it just wrong if you do it to save Aboriginal heritage??? Please answer that here given you have had a go here re Neville Williams.

Its not going to cost anyone in Australia if a small plaque is erected somewhere near the Coolac Bypass is it, to note that massacre. After all we mark massacres such as Port Arthur etc so of course we can also note the Coolac one though there has already been a large monument built to it bragging about it going on its inscription.

RobertM 01:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)