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Israel Shamir solicits meatpuppets to do his reverting for him

Israel_shamir (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is blocked for his activities at Israel Shamir and for racist attacks, see above, and meanwhile the article has been reverted to Shamir's preferred version by a brand new user, RhinoRick (talk · contribs). I blocked RhinoRick as an obvious sock, but now it turns out that he is more likely to be a meatpuppet, unblushingly recruited by Shamir through a message board. (User:Denis Diderot sent me this link.) I think this action by Shamir warrants a longer block. See Misplaced Pages:Sock puppetry: "Advertising or soliciting meatpuppet activity is not an acceptable practice on Misplaced Pages". Bishonen | talk 16:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC).

• I strongly agree. Also, semi-protecting the page in question for a bit might be warranted, as well. --InShaneee 16:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Agree too. Block him and block all meatpuppets, as the more he edits, the more disruptive he becomes. Pecher 17:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm surprised he had not already been blocked indefinitely.--Mantanmoreland 17:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Me too... -- Grafikm 17:43, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

There is no longer any room for assumption of either good faith or newbie ignorance. It's time to put this one to bed. Since I'm seeing little in the way of defense of this guy, we'll skip the "all in favor" and go directly to "Is anyone opposed to an indefinite block of this guy?" Tomer 20:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

My own feeling is that there are three different block discussions going on:

1. User name violations
2. Hate speech, repeated
3. Calls for intervention and 3RR

and the three folks aren't talking to each other very clearly. As for #1: if the user has an article on himself, then he can't have the name, but the user shouldn't have a page about himself, because he is not actually substantial enough for the .se Misplaced Pages to have an article on him. As for #2: absolutely. This user's speech has been horrid and continuing. However, for process sake, I don't think an indefinite ban for hate speech is at all allowable. Personal attacks and bad speech is not sufficient, IMO. The user's edits are not all vandalism. Instead, they're all worthless, but worthless isn't vandalism. There are plenty of ArbCom cases of people calling each other "communist fascist" and the like, and since there are no priviledged classes, the mere hatred behind the terminology can't allow an indefinite block without consensus. For #3, the call for meatpuppets is at least a cause for resetting a 3RR block for the duration that the call for intervention is visible. In this case, I think the worst offense should be treated. To me, that's #2, not #3. I'd say a month block for repeated and pretty much sole attack and hate speech is appropriate and a referral to mediation/ArbCom after that month at the first sign of attack language. Incidentally, I think that Israel Shamir should be sent to AfD after the block is in place. If that is disrupted by any calls for intervention, etc., I'd say we're looking at an indefinite block. Geogre 21:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Geogre, from the point of view of the encyclopedia, I believe that the worst offense is not the hate speech, it's the "All edits worthless" and its concomitant "user is not here to build the encyclopedia". I've gone through his edits, and they may be divided into POV rants in article space, extreme personal attacks on userpages, and additions of useless external links. Following your argument I will block indefinitely for encyclopedic uselessness, not for the call for meatpuppets. Bishonen | talk 21:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC).

P. S. Excuse me, I forgot to mention that User:KimvdLinde who placed the week-long block is on wikibreak till the beginning of July, or I would have consulted with him, naturally. Bishonen | talk 22:33, 18 June 2006 (UTC).

No objection from this girl. -- Kim van der Linde 23:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that it would not change anything... -- Grafikm 22:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Geogre: I think the only "problem" with the 3 simultaneous discussions/causes of action against this user is which each of us thinks is the worst of his blockable offenses, not that some of us regard one as a problem but not the other two, etc. I don't think we're talking past each other so much as saying "yeah, I saw that, but look at this! this is even more outrageous!", all the while agreeing that everything is sufficient cause to block him indefinitely. The guy needs to go for all three reasons, and I think sufficient evidence has been brought to demonstrate that an indefinite block for any of them will meet with zero admin disagreement. We can discuss and discuss all day which of his offenses is worst, but at the end of the day, the verdict is still an indefinite block. Cheers, Tomer 01:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm kind of terrible in being process oriented. I'm well aware that our dispute processes are...overburdened?...but I worry very much that a lack of dissent on one project page (this one) be taken for positive assent from the project. Again, I'm certainly not defending this person or his actions. I think he's probably irredeemable, but I'm concerned that we have all allowed "well, I'll mention it on AN/I" to replace our fuller, slower, but surer methods. I also don't like relying on "well, anyone else can block for a shorter time." Again, in no sense do I vouch for this anti-semite. I'm all for a block, and past offenses are plentiful, but past remediating actions aren't. Even though it won't do any good, I recommend a month. <shrug> I'm just one scold, but that's my nagging opinion. Geogre 02:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to dragging it out, I just don't see any point in doing so, other than to placate the policymongers. If I think this discussion has served pretty well as an RfC, and I don't see how an RfM would go anywhere...I don't like to sound so dismissive of this guy, but sometime reality has to strike and say "THERE IS NO HOPE". As happens far too often, this guy would simply take the extra time he's given while we go through "process", to continue flagrantly violating every WP policy in existence (I can't think of one he hasn't violated, except perhaps naming conventions, but that takes productive editing to violate...), meanwhile productive editors are being tied up not only undoing his useless edits, but now also with compiling all the voluminous evidence against him for presentation. If it were to ever go as far as ArbCom, I think they'd be very annoyed with us wee little admins for having dumped such a clear-cut BAN ON SIGHT case on them, as though they don't have enough TRICKY cases to work on. My 3¢, for what it's worth. (inflation, you know... ) Tomer 23:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It's really very simple: multiple reasons for indefinite block. Ergo an indefinite block is warranted.--Mantanmoreland 13:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

About the AOL image vandal...and me

I have given up. I'm not going to revert any more AOL edits like this one. I'm going to skip right past.

The feeling of hopelessness is immense. I'm sitting there with Vandal Proof watching edits by that user go by faster than I can revert them. I don't even bother leaving warnings. He will just change his IP with the next edit anyway. I just try and reduce the damage. It's a whole IP range. I jump the hell on IRC, yelling for someone to help me but no one does. An admin finally blocks it, but I see other admins seeing the same vandalism as me, reverting the same vandalism as me, and they don't do anything. What kind of climate are we living in when a sophisticated vandal with an efficient system (3+ vandal edits every 30 seconds, or an edit every 10 seconds) wrecking havoc with our encyclopedia gets to scare off our administrators just because he uses AOL? Even when the range WAS BLOCKED, it was ONLY FOR 15 MINUTES. The vandal promptly started up again and that's when I decided to throw in the towel. This isn't just some kiddie at his school putting in "omg lol" into articles. This is a determined vandal who knows our system with its red tape and silly rules can't stop him. He has the power and he knows how to exploit it.

"But mboverload," you say, "obvious vandalism is easy to revert and it only took a few minutes even if you had to look on in horror as thousands of peoples' work was being destroyed." Well, why don't we just let stupid criminals out of prison after 15 minutes? They learned their lesson. Stores can always get their money back from insurance and it's easy to spot them with the security cameras, right? Even if that were true in real life, it still wouldn't be acceptable. People hate being violated and they want to protected.

I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm supposed to be understanding about this. But maybe I'm just the cop that realises that it's a completely hopeless battle; we will never win. Every day we go back out there and we hand out warnings and we watch as they commit more vandalism and we hand out and other warning and then we watch them do it again, all in the name of due process. Criminals don't get 4 warnings. They get TASERed. Maybe I'm burned out. Maybe I need a wikibreak. Maybe I don't care enough about all the good that comes out the the AOL IP addresses with 8 blocks. Maybe I need to calm down. Maybe I need to think of the children. Maybe I need to shut the hell up and make a sandwich. --mboverload@ 07:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

if not enough people willing to spend their time reverting this are online, the entire range should be blocked. It's not like we'll get enough worth to counterbalance the damage out of the AOL range in the meantime. AOL either needs to collaborate in preventing this, or live with their IP range blocked much of the time. dab (ᛏ) 07:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed...tough luck I say...editing here is a priviledge.--MONGO 07:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Its obvious vandalism. Easy to revert and the collateral damage would be huge. Seriously, but you're the only one with this huge obsession with this vandal. I'm content with the edits being reverted. The good coming out of the AOL IP's vastly outweighs the bad, blocking that range would be more disasterous then any vandal could possibly be. Our ultimate goal is writing an encyclopedia, not being elitist towards anons and AOL in paticular. As long as those using AOL contribute towards that goal, we just need to revert the vandals. Denying millions of contributers access fundamentally diverges from the wiki philosophy. -M 07:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

When I come across more vandalised pages by accident (i.e. while not on RC patrol or looking at my watchlist), I might get behind a block on an entire ISP, but right now in my whole time reading Misplaced Pages I can only remember coming across three vandalised pages by accident, and I can't even remember what they were, though I do remember all but one were very obscure. Sure, if you go looking for vandalism, you will, shock horror, find lots of it, but that's not the impression the average reader will get.

I'm fairly understanding of those who block shared IPs for long periods, but people who are blocked at school can just go home - when people are blocked at home it's a major inconvenience. Roll on WP:BPP... --Sam Blanning 08:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Any time the vandal's giving you trouble, mboverload, drop a note on my talk page, and if I'm on I'll block the range for 3 hours. I'm truly not afraid of blocking AOL one bit for as long as need be, and have blocked that range for relatively long times before (as far as I know, my blocks of this range have never once been undone), and I truly don't think that many users are that harmed by it, with a couple of exceptions for whom solutions are typically found quite quickly. I get the impression that AOL simply doesn't give a damn about abuse, and AOL users are typically quite used to getting shitty service from their ISP--they'll understand, or perhaps consider changing to a decent provider. If a few users are unable to edit from home for some time, I think it's well worth it. This vandal, and many others, are quite well aware of the effort we put into ensuring that no AOL user ever be unable to edit, and they just sit back and laugh at our wasted effort. It is absolutely absurd to expect anyone--mboverload, myself, etc.--to simply "revert and warn" this vandalism without blocking, and anyone who does not find this expectation absurd obviously has not been involved in the clean up (as mb stated, we're not dealing with the dumb schoolboy vandal here). Might I propose that we at least keep this range blocked between the hours of 5 and 15 UTC (midnight and 10am pacific time) when nobody except the few of us are available to deal with it? I, like mboverload, simply refuse to clean up this crap anymore, and why should we with that nifty block button there? By the way, we're not talking all of AOL, just the pacific coast branch. I would really like to return to editing... AmiDaniel (talk) 09:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your post AmiDaniel, thanks. I get mad at the regular vandals but I'm fine with that in the long run. It's just these people who take advantage of an ISP that doesn't care is what makes me mad. Even madder at someone who is this smart (I have heard that he must have found a special way to get a new IP address each time, it's not the regular behavior usually). And when we block a range he can just disconnect and call another number. God...I hate dialup. Maybe I'm madder at AOL than the actual user. It's just so awful that there is a stereotype of the AOL user, and they seem to reinforce it to me every hour. Thank you =)--mboverload@ 09:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

One more time: blocks of AOL should never exceed :15. The bad outweighs the good? Hmm. Let's see: yesterday I wrote two full articles with references, cleaned out some CSD's, and added to four prosody articles. I mediated the behavior of someone about to get a block, and I tried to put the brakes on some overzealous blocking on this page. Sure, I can see why you might think that the bad outweighs that tiny amount of good. This is not a debate: our policy says that you will not block AOL for longer than :15. If AmiDaniel's block hasn't been overturned, that's just luck, because, although I've not before wanted to get involved in unblocking and wheel warring, the kind of attitude I'm seeing from you people is enough to pull me off the sidelines. If what I'm saying is changing tone too many times, just remember this do not block AOL for longer than :15. Oh, and you can put your prejudice aside. Your denunciations of AOL are as well reasoned as meeting drunken sailors and concluding that all the people of a nation are hideous. If you don't know who the AOL contributors are doing any good, it's because you're vandal hunting. Geogre 11:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocks of AOL should be based on preventing vandalism from AOL. It should be as wide-ranging and as long as necessary to accomplish this goal. Since AOL is making it impossible to lay a narrowly-targeted block on an AOL vandal, AOL users have no reasonable expectation of not being blocked. The problem here is with AOL's conduct towards the rest of the Internet, not Misplaced Pages admin's conduct. AOL's randomizing proxies are a big fat "screw you" to anyone who's trying to deter vandalism, harassment, or other abuse and criminality. --FOo 16:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Where is this policy which says no more than 15 minutes? WP:BLOCK doesn't mention it, the block page says "Please keep blocks in these ranges to 15 minutes or less" that isn't a never. The reality if the blocking should be proportional to the issue, in this case it appears to be bot like rapid vandalism e.g. 20+ edits per minute, in which case a range block does seem in order. If initial 15 minute blocks don't stop it then increase in length does seem appropriate. --pgk 17:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, and here I thought the block page had precedence over zeal. You know why you think AOL users are a problem? You are vandal hunting. If you clean septic tanks all day, you'll be convinced that no one does anything but poop. Do you think Time Warner AOL will be harmed by your virtuous scourging of its users from Misplaced Pages? Do you think that the users will either gain the money or expertise necessary to switch ISP's? Do you believe that other ISP's will suddenly appear with dial-up connections in their areas? No, in fact, reverting vandals is not sufficient justification for wiping out an entire ISP. Do you feel free to ignore policy, consensus, and practice and block entire school systems? They do more damage by far. If not, then please drop the anti-corporate attitude when it means blocking innocent contributors. Geogre 18:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The semi-block idea sounds very interesting. Yes,something must be done about AOL vandalism, and waiting for AOL to do it seems a forlorn hope. I put my faith in the clever developers giving a software solution top priority now. Meanwhile, do you rangeblock enthusiast really know the situation of the good users being affected by the AOL blocks? And what the encyclopedia loses through that situation? Do you see, above, that the fine admin and exceptional Featured-article writer Geogre can barely edit at all nowadays? I know him, so I know his situation. I also know the equally virtuous and even more unfortunate User:WBardwin, who was invisibly pipelinked to in AmiDaniel's post above as one of "a couple of exceptions for whom solutions are typically found quite quickly". Really, a solution has been found for WBardwin? No, it hasn't. His polite, resigned unblock requests still pop up on my watchlist most days. This amazingly patient editor still tries, and to a certain extent manages, to edit Misplaced Pages--if I were WBardwin, I would have given up long ago. Take a look at his talkpage, and click from it to his special subpage about his AOL blocks: it's horrendous. So, just by accident I know two users who are hugely impacted by the AOL blocks. This suggests to me that there are many, many more. PLease keep AOL blocks to 15 minutes or less. And PLEASE work on a software solution for the vandalism! I find the pointlessness of blocking vandals or edit warriors when they come in from AOL as frustrating as anybody. Bishonen | talk 18:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC).

I don't understand why logged-in users have problems with AOL blocks. I never do, I must just be lucky. User:Zoe| 18:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It is luck, Zoe. (Gasp! Another admin using AOL? But, above, we were told that AOL is far and away more evil for Misplaced Pages than good!) I've been stuck with Netscape ISP for over a year and a half. Netscape is owned by AOL, so it runs my IP through its pool. For 10 months or more, I never had collateral damage. In the past 6-8 months, though, I find myself blocked at least twice a day. Being an admin, I can get around it, but the kind of shotgun approach to vandal fighting being actually encouraged in this thread is simply ignorant. Geogre 18:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

At a guess I would say it is due to not useing the AOL browser.Geni 00:58, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Nope. I use Mozilla and don't use AOL. I simply have an ISP (Netscape) that's owned by AOL. That means my IP's don't roll with every single page load, but they roll pretty darned often all the same. I don't like the practice any more than anyone else, but the answer isn't to go to scorched earth policies. We need that earth. Geogre 03:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

for the record, I never meant to suggest we should block the entire AOL range for long periods. I meant to suggest that if there is an auto-redialling vandalbot run on AOL, we should block AOL for :15 without remorse, and for another :15 if it persists, and for yet another :15, and another :15, essentially amounting to a permablock for as long as the wanker continues to run his bot. dab (ᛏ) 21:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It's tedious and laborious, but I think you're right Dab. If it's an image popper, we can certainly make the image unavailable for the duration, as well. However, I think this particular vandal knows full well that he's causing collateral damage and is, in fact, using that damage as part of his vandalism. Geogre 03:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the software solution easy? Give MediaWiki the range of AOL proxy server IP addresses (these are well known), and if the IP address is blocked but the user account isn't, let its edits go through. This is a sort of "semi-block" that allows registered users to edit. Also, disable autoblocker on these ranges. --Cyde↔Weys 20:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Ceiling cat vandal

Somebody needs to do something about those "ceiling cat" AOL vandals who keep inserting Image:Ceiling cat 00.jpg. I've blocked 152.163.0.0/16 several times, but they just didn't seem to stick. Have I used the range block suffix incorrectly? In any case, they've been doing a lot of damage recently. -- King of Hearts 22:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest moving your comment to incidents. You'll get a quicker response, and it appears from your message that this is an urgent issue.--Ikiroid 23:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Cyde blocked 152.163.100.0/24 for 3 hours at around 23:07 UTC, so it should stick now... Bornhj 23:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the image. Why didn't anybody do that before? User:Zoe| 01:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I looked at it a few times, showed it to my kids, and we all had a giggle. Was it a deletable image? If so, fine (and honestly I find it difficult to imagine that it had an encyclopedic use). If not, it could have been put into the bad images file. --Tony Sidaway 01:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't prove it but it had every sign of being a copyvio (user with few edits uploading an image that has serious circulation in internet pop culture).Geni 01:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

It's funny, but adds no value to the encyclopedia, tempts the idiots to put it in articles, and is dubious copyright-wise as well. That says delete to me. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• I seriously doubt that they are actually a "they", the thing that people don't quite seem to understand about AOL is that contrary to myth, AOL isn't actually filled to the brim with thousands upon thousands of vandals, there's simply a hand full of idiots, who unfortunatly get new IPs every page, so it seems like a much more prolific problem then it really is. I mean there are millions of registered users on AOL, if even 1% of them were actually vandals, AOL would be a MUCH larger problem then it really is--64.12.116.65 00:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

AOL isn't actually filled to the brim with thousands upon thousands of vandals I disagree =D --mboverload@ 03:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User Googleyii

It seems that the account Googleyii (talk • contribs) is intended only for vandalism (disruption of Misplaced Pages, as for example a malicious AfD nomination of France, and adding of nonsense to other articles in general) as well as harassment of other editors. Why not ban this user permanently, instead of letting him or her return to cause more damage after each block expires, before someone adds another block? /Magore 02:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think this is an editor who got off to a bad start editing articles about his home town and his school. He got into some wrangles about it with User:Adolphus79 and responded inappropriately, and it kind of spiralled out of control from there. I disagree that it's a vandalism-only account; more of an inexperienced and immature user who got burned and is lashing out. A friendly personal comment on his talk page might do some good; stop signs and stern warnings will only guarantee he continues along his current path. · rodii · 03:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure? By the law of Userbox Ratios and Averages, where the likelihood of creating a valid edit is inversely proportional to the number of userboxes you have on his page, I don't really see anything good coming from this user. Not until he grows up and matures a bit out of this spoiled myspace mentality, at least. --Golbez 18:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't deny he's created more disruption than value in his tenure so far. But he has tried to add good information to Chambersburg, Pennsylvania (see ) and Battle of Gettysburg. Not the highest-quality edits to be sure, but not what I would characterize as a "vandalism-only" editor either. · rodii · 18:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, his edits (and userboxes) betray some similarities to Griffjam aka Dormantsoviet, so who the hell knows? Maybe I'm a sucker. · rodii · 18:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe the question is what will happen when the current block expires. And as stated, this user has done far more to disrupt than to contribute, and although I might be wrong in my assumtion that this is a vandalism-only account (I didn't go that far back in the history of this account), that might be the only use from now on. I see no reason or gain in being lenient towards vandals, not when it's so obvious that the edits have been made in bad faith. /Magore 17:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Aiman abmajid (talk · contribs)

This user uploads many images, without specifying the sources, such as Image:E5gh.gif and Image:Plaza toll.gif. He has been ignoring Orphanbot's image source notices, clearing them all without further action , and simply removing {{no source}} templates pasted on his images' description pages . If his images are deleted, he will simply re-upload them again (AFAIK the 2 images I mentioned have been deleted due to "no source" previously).

He has been unresponsive to notes on his user talk so far. I've dropped another note on his user talk page, but I'm not sure what actions if any need to be taken against this type of user, so I'm bringing it up here. Kimchi.sg 09:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I have given him a {{Image no source last warning}} warning. If he reupload images afterwards, I will probably give him a short warning block. Circeus 19:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

All images that were not obvious self-creation or properly sourced and licensed (although i did correct a few in the process) have been deleted. 21:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Bae Yong Joon and User:Fabshelly

Currently, I am discussing matters with this newly-registered user, who is rather hostile. His edits on this article, to my judgement, can be considered as vandalism, a charge which he denies. From the attitude of his messages, he has even reverted an NPOV notice (see history , which clearly reflects his NPOV behaviour Misplaced Pages:NPOV but currently he has refused to change for a better to edit in accordance to at least a near non-NPOV and wikipedian style. Unnecessary notices, such as "Information here is from his official website, byj.co.kr. Google is not a verifiabe source of information on Bae Yong Joon. " is pasted on the article, a behaviour reflected on Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not. Last but not least, this user has been accusing me of adding false information when I have given proper citations (See Misplaced Pages:Reliable Sources and Talk:Bae Yong Joon). Also, while communicating with me on User talk:Fabshelly, words, amounting to abusive criticism, like "cowardly" and "doesn't make you morally superior." have been used against me. I have pasted a replica on Bae's talk page.

For more information, please refer to Talk:Bae Yong Joon. Admin help on Bae Yong Joon is greatly needed and appreciated. I need admin justification and judgement to User:Fabshelly's conduct on Bae, as I am not good at manoveruing my words against him, and work out a compromise eventually. Mr Tan 14:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I have posted messages to User talk:Centrx in response to Fabshelly's second time of removing the "dispute" and "cleanup" templates while he pasted up the notices. Apparently this user has strong NPOV/non-neutral feelings while editing the article, which is against wikipedia's policy. Thus admin judgement and/or dispute resolution against him is necessary to calm matters down. Mr Tan 06:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

(Allow me to interject) Fabshelly's edits is clearly an evidence of a violation of Misplaced Pages:Content disclaimer, a segment page of Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not, which is official policy. Thus appropriate disciplinar actions enforced by admins is essential if he continues to violate policies and guidelines imposed by wikipedia. Mr Tan 03:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Sussexman and legal threats.

On June 8th, User:Sussexman and User:Edchilvers had the following exchange:

*Comment Utter rubbish. GLF is not protected by the rehabilitation of offenders act and besides, the content of his Misplaced Pages article included a blatent falsehood in that it suggested he had been cleared of all charges on appeal. Seeing as the matter was widely reported in the national newspapers and has thus been in the public domain for some time I fail to see the harm in mentioning it as it is the truth.

- User:Edchilvers + User:Edchilvers.

• Comment: You're wrong Mr.Chilvers, as you will soon discover. Sussexman 07:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Today, Ed Chilvers received a letter from Gregory Lauder-Frost's lawyers threatening him with legal action. Sussexman's "as you will soon discover" would be a reference to this and should be taken as a legal threat. If Sussexman is not Gregory Lauder-Frost then he is intimate enough with him to be able to pass on a legal threat. He should be banned from wikipedia until the matter is resolved and until GLF either concludes or agrees to withdraw any threat of legal action. Homey 18:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

How would they have gotten his mailing address? Paul Cyr 18:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

By googling "Ed Chilvers" or looking his name up in a British database. It seems from Ed Chilvers' web page that he has been the target of legal threats from Michael Keith Smith, a friend of Lauder-Frost's, in the past so it's possible Lauder-Frost already had Chilvers' contact info. Homey 18:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Got any proof, like a scan of the letter? -Hit bull, win steak 19:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Ed Chilvers mentions it here - he sent me excerpts of the letter after I emailed him about it.Homey 19:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

This sounds pretty serious. I'd recommend blocking until this can be looked into at the very least. --InShaneee 19:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've been in a content dispute with Sussexman over Gregory Lauder-Frost so I'm not the person to implement a block. Homey 19:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

He has now been blocked indefinitely. FearÉIREANN\ 19:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I support the block. Sussexman has been consistently disruptive over any attempt to include content not flattering to Lauder-Frost. William Pietri put in some tremendous work digging up newspaper reports and showed that Lauder-Frosts's conviction for theft was the single most widely reported fact about him; Sussexman and a couple of anonymous editors were determined to remove this or at least relegate it to euphemistic references. Just zis Guy you know? 19:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Glad you said "digging up" the dirt. Bit of agive away as to the agenda here, really. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

And this post, which he intended for another user, is fairly close to a legal threat.

• That's just tripe and you know it. He is just stating a fact. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Septentrionalis 20:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I also strongly believe that User:Sussexman is Gregory Lauder-Frost, given the similar tone found in the excepts of the letter Ed Chilvers received. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Strong beliefs seem to be only legitimate on your side of the fence. Pity its wrong. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Support, as the person who blocked User:Lightoftheworld, probably leading Sussexman to veil his threats. Be on the look out for meatpuppets. --Sam Blanning 23:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sussexman is not Lauder-Frost. Preposterous. Sussexman has defended the vitriolic attacks made upon someone he knew years ago and liked and felt a great injustice was being done to. He was quite right to tell people crossing legal boundaries that they were doing this and quite right to tell people that by doing so they would soon find out the consequences. That is not a legal threat and banning everyone who points out simple facts is not the way forward for Misplaced Pages which should not be above the law. 81.131.37.101 07:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

For values of vitriolic which include stating in terms of studied neutrality the fact that he was convicted of a substantial theft from the health authority where he worked. As far as I can the most of the vitriol has been directed against those who attempted to fix the inaccuracy of the article, by supporters of Lauder-Frost. Just zis Guy you know? 08:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Here you go raving about the pre-1992 business as though it were last week and without the full knowledge of the matter. It was illegal to post details of this. Telling people this should be taken in good faith. Instead you ban people for it. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I give my absolute support to Sussexman. I too posted information on how this cabal of smearers were breaking UK law. Any normal person would be pleased for the advice. But this lot knew what they were doing and were absolutely determined to smear GLF all over the world. Sussexman appears to be the third person they have blocked for "legal threats", yet none of them appear to actually be the person concerned and so were not in a position to threaten anyone! Is it Misplaced Pages policy to block out everyone whom you get sick of arguing with? 195.134.6.202 16:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are acting as a proxy for someone else's legal threats, I consider it substantially identical to making them yourself. Misplaced Pages can't prove the relationship between the Misplaced Pages username User:Sussexman and the real-world individual Gregory Lauder-Frost, but I believe it does not really matter. Conveying threats from another non-Misplaced Pages party when one is not merely a messenger but an associate and clearly involved in an on-Misplaced Pages effort to suppress the same information differs little in actual effect from explicitly making them yourself.

I note also that GLF and/or friends and associates were quite happy to keep a lie on the page (that GLF was acquitted of theft on appeal) but are willing to sue on extremely flimsy grounds to hide the truth. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 19:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• All rubbish, I'm afraid. The only person on "flimsy" ground on these issues seems to be you and the little gang of demonisers. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry to have to inform you that I bear Gregory Lauder-Frost no personal ill will whatsoever. I don't know him, have never encountered him, and did not even know of his existence prior to your first postings on this page about it. I am, however, interested in keeping an honest historical record, concerned about an attempt to censor relevant truth, and opposed to those who seek to chill discussion and publication of facts by using dubious legal threats. A brief, half-sentence mention of Gregory Lauder-Frost's criminal conviction in 1992 - which could not be considered any kind of "youthful indiscretion" or to be prior to his public life - is not unfair to him. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 15:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to update people on this, there've been further significant developments today. Amgine has reduced the entire article to a stub based on an apparent legal complaint (accessible through OTRS ). BradPatrick is already involved, though I'm not sure what the current state of play is. Further ongoing discussion is at Talk:Gregory Lauder-Frost.-- ChrisO 18:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's not accessible through OTRS - it's been placed in a restricted queue, as is common with privacy complaints. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. :-) -- ChrisO 19:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Since I must drudge up old conversation; Until there is conclusive proof that this was a reference to the legal threat/action, could we unblock? The content dispute is something to be handled by dispute resolution. --Avillia 22:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

IMO, no chance. We don't operate in a realm of absolute 'conclusive proof' here - but Sussexman is either Gregory Lauder-Frost or closely related to him and passing on threats from him. Either is blockable. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Megaman Zero (talk · contribs)

Good day, all. This user has been (for about a week now) unilaterally slashing out the "spoiler" tags from at least a hundred game-related articles. He doesn't use the talk page, and doesn't give any explanation in his summaries. His removal of the tags is wrong in all of the instances he's done it in (for example, in the Resident Evil 4 article it talks about the specific death of a main character during the course of the game), and there are elements within those storylines that a user casually reading the article might not want revealed to them without prior notice. Other users have asked him to stop repeatedly, but he hasn't listened to them, instead filing false "Request For Investigation" attempts and trying to get Mongo involved in order to "get his way". So far I've managed to repair the damage that he's caused via reversion, but trying to fix everything is getting to be really, really aggravating.

As evidence, I present the articles relating to Resident Evil 0, RE1, RE2, RE3, RE: Code Veronica, RE4, as well as pages directly associated with characters in those series, including Luis Sera, Osmond Saddler, Leon S Kennedy and Bitores Mendez. 24.19.96.143 20:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

, , , , , , , ,

This is a content dispute. Take it to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment. --Tony Sidaway 21:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh I've been doing it for quite a bit longer than a week. -Zero 10:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

AOL denial of service vandals

seriously, stop giving them so much attention, half this page is covered with AOL themed warnings, there are now daily wheel wars over range blocks, templates, categories, etc.. all devoted to what is probably one or two vandals.. in the same sense that you would never give a troll this much attention, you wouldn't want to do the same for a vandal. Hell, isn't that the reason Willy On Wheels was deleted? The problem is that prolific vandals become like folk heros around here, with daily tall tails, and entire articles devoted to them. When you get an attention seeking vandal, this is just counter productive--64.12.116.65 00:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

People don't think that stopping vandalism is important enough to block and it's better to offload it to the recent changes patrol. --mboverload@ 00:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, blocking AOL users at random almost never stops vandalism, but at least all the colorful block summaries let as many random AOL users know how easy it is to use AOL for vandalism--64.12.116.65 00:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention not being able to use my account for several days at a time does cut down on the amount of time that I can run VandalProof, but hey, it's only AOL--64.12.116.65 00:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

We don't block random AOL users. There has been a massive attack by a skilled user exploiting how AOL works. Your block should expire soon. If you have WiFi you can leech off one of your neighbors...not sure how much they'd like that, though =D --mboverload@ 00:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I agree with the opinions of both anonymous up there and mboverload. The reason we get so many AOL DoS attacks is that all AOL users are frequent victims of collateral damage and thus recognize how easy it is to get all of AOL blocked. Then the DoS vandals read our posts here and go "Wow, that's easy!" It's much like how posting Charles Manson's face on the cover of Rolling Stone and making celebrities out of every serial killer and villain makes little kids wanna grow up to be murderers. Everyone wants their fame, and it's pretty damn easy to become infamous as a vandal. Thus, I see your point that we do seem to glorify vandals, but at the same time I see mboverload's point that we can't just do nothing. Unfortunately at the moment not much can be done--until the devs come up with some clever workarounds or AOL finally does something about this, our only real solution is blocking. It's an unfortunate truth that I hope will soon change, but I'm doing my best to just not let it get to me--truth is, it's not that big of a deal, and we will find a way to deal with it. (Btw, Willy on Wheels was deleted because it was a cross-namespace redirect.) AmiDaniel (talk) 00:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:Beans amidaniel, nice idea, but i seriosly doubt an :05 block would stop a bot like this (pm on irc if you want to know why]]Benon 00:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This particular vandal edits from IP's. Most of the collateral damage comes from vandals with accounts who are at AOL. The fact that this vandal remains only an IP is a good sign that he is intending the collateral damage. Now, our folks need to stop the vandal, but a range block of the ISP won't do much good. When you block an AOL IP, you're behind the vandal and therefore on top of an innocent. Blocking the whole range would be the solution, except that, if this is a -bot, and it seems to be, from its speed, the block of the whole range would only need to be a very short time -- probably :10 or even :05 would stop the bot, unless it has been programmed to not be bothered by the block page coming up. I'm glad to see AmiDaniel backing off from some of the more severe positions, above. If we can't stop the vandal with :10 or :15 blocks, then we sort of have to lay it off on RC Patrol, as bad as that is. Ironically, if the vandal succeeded, if he managed to make Misplaced Pages a place with "F4RT" scribbled on each page, it would be boring to him. He only wants to pee on a clean wall. Geogre 13:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

if I was to write a vandalbot, I would make it reconnect everytime it encountered the block page, thus walking through my ISP's IP range as quickly as people can block it. This is pointless. The only solution to this is allowing logged-in users edit even from blocked IPs (but disallowing creation of new accounts from blocked IPs). dab (ᛏ) 18:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That would be an answer, but the down side is that it would stop our sock puppet spotting and the times when the autoblocker catches a blocked user who simply creates a new account -- not that that was ever particularly robust. Geogre 15:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

<smacks forehead> that's the answer!!! To make the AOL vandal stop, Misplaced Pages just needs to put vandalism like 'F4RT' on every page! Someone, get a developer! KWH 00:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You mean it isn't already on every page? (My point was that vandals always attack resisting targets. It gives the scriptkiddies their warm fuzzies to "win." I think those who regard us as a challenge are particularly lame.) (If we could get them to go to harder targets, it would be nice.) Geogre 15:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Happy Camper

User:Happycamper has been reverting a persons comments off talk pages. you can see complaints on User_talk:Michael D. Wolok. Please take appropriate action. Geo. 01:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It appears to be on par with Misplaced Pages:Spam#Internal_spamming; no further action is needed. El_C 01:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Michael D. Wolok pertains to HappyCampers actions and decision to withdraw. -lethe 14:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Suspected Sockpuppet of User:NoToFrauds

User Terminator III (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) edits the same pages, has the same uncivil behavior toward User:Hamsacharya_dan (putting a photo of feces on dan's userpage), and has the same style as indefinitely blocked user NoToFrauds (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). It seems he's evading his block. 66.132.130.15 01:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I see some similarities, but nothing conclusive. Have comparative diffs? RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is odd; User:Terminator III claims to use "sockpuppets" (actually, two IPs that trace back to the University of California at Irvine). One of these, User:128.195.111.122, was the recipient of two somewhat incivil messages (here and here) left by User:NoToFrauds, and both IPs have been tagged as suspected socks of User:Hamsacharya_dan. Yet, 66.132.130.15 (whose only contribs are here) suggests User:Terminator III is a sock of User:NoToFrauds? Something isn't working... RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Brian G. Crawford

Can someone please block this user for a while so that he can cool off a bit? Just take a look at this grossly inappropriate unprovoked personal attack. AvB ÷ talk 11:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for 72 hours, personal attacks (and responses to same) removed. Provoked or not, that rant was really beyond the pale. Nandesuka 11:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It certainly was. Thanks. AvB ÷ talk 11:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow. I don't know what I was expecting when I clicked the link, but whatever it was, that was a lot worse. Good job on the block. -Hit bull, win steak 13:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Just 72 hours for that garbage? He should have been keelhauled for 3 months. - Merzbow 21:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Looks like Brian might have been provoked here. But even so, that's one hell of an outburst. Remember, though, that Brian is generally a decent editor and Rdos seems intent on pursuing an agenda. I can see how assertions of this nature from a self-diagnosed autioe might be seen as groossly insulting by one who has been medically diagnosed. Just zis Guy you know? 21:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, no matter how spectacularly, I don't think a single case of exploding is punishable by 3 months' block! NPA is, one more time (with feeling), not policy in its sanctions. If the user is doing anything constructive as well, then being nasty should result in mediation and arbitration, not trampling by elephants. Send him to the time-out corner for a day, maybe, but anything more than two days for a single outburst is pushing it, if the user does constructive things as well, and this one does. Geogre 03:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Permanent deletion of malicious identifying information?

I know this can be done because I have seen it done. Basically one editor has abused the edit summary facility here in an attempt to maliciously post identifying information about me, I would very much like that permanently deleted if it is possible...no point sanctioning the user because he never comes back on the same IP twice these days. --Zeraeph 13:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Eugène van der Pijll 15:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks :o) --Zeraeph 15:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Rhotic and non-rhotic accents

Hi. Please move Rhotic and non-rhotic accents back to that title; it has been redirected to "Nonrhoticism on wheels!". It was moved by User:Y2K .. Also, the first sentence says "Please help me. I don't want to be blocked again. I am User:Hephaestos. Hephisis 15:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)" -- Reinyday, 15:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• It's been moved. I'm going to remove Hephaestos' comment. -- Reinyday, 15:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
• Also, User:Sleehw added "Wheels wheels wheels!" -- Reinyday, 15:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It wasn't Hephaestos. The real Hephaestos wouldn't be nearly as whiny. User:Zoe| 23:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What I want to know is why Curps's bot didn't block him for pagemove vandalism. --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 17:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Abuse of power?

(Moved from Collapse of the World Trade Center) As a consequence of this edit User:MONGO took the decision to block me for 24 hours. His motivation are explained here where he says that "my POV pushing days are numbered" and conclude the discussion threating to block me for a week if I will ever dare to revert him again. Now let's fix some points:

1. User:MONGO was not an "independent observer": he was taking part to a content dispute on the opportunity of describing the "controlled demolition theorists" as "conspiracists";
2. the dispute involved several people in both the parties as you can see looking at and keeping pressing "newer edit";
3. User: MONGO was supporting a change to the old version of the article while I was supporting the old version;
4. In the block policy you can read the following paragraph:

Use of blocks to gain an advantage in a content dispute is strictly prohibited. That is, sysops must not block editors with whom they are currently engaged in a content dispute.

So I think it's clear that User: MONGO did violate the block policy realizing an abuse of power. I ask you: what can I do to defend myself from this kind of abuses? Is there an authority that can prevent User: MONGO from behaving in this way? --Pokipsy76 08:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Stop pushing your nonsense POV and you won't have to worry about it. Stop reverting other editors for no reason and you won't be blocked. Two other admins came to your talk page and both left you blocked, so I suppose the concensus to keep you blocked should have been obvious.--MONGO 08:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you really suggesting that User:Tom harrison could be considered to be an independent observer? However: I asked for an authority to defend myself from your threats and from what I believe to be clear violations of the block policy, can you answer about this please?--Pokipsy76 08:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I did, Mr. Harrison did, User:Pschemp did, and when you wouldn't stop posting the unblock, she even protected your talk page.... This commentary doesn't belong here anyway as it has nothing to do with this article.--MONGO 09:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

1. Why do you keep saying the same things ignoring my questions?
2. Are you suggesting that if the block policy disagree with User:Pschemp and User:Tom harrison then it is the block policy to be wrong?
3. This commentary belongs here because it speaks about a content dispute related to this article. Probably other editors would be interested to know that taking part to a content dispute against User: MONGO's POV may result in a block, wouldn't they?
4. I would be grateful if you suggest a better place to discuss about abuses of powers by the admins?

--Pokipsy76 09:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

There is an administrator's noticeboard, or you can file a request for comment. Tom Harrison 14:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This seems pretty clear-cut to me. Administrators are not permitted to use their access to advantage themselves in a content dispute, for instance by blocking the person with whom they are disputing. The block is an unauthorized use of administrator access. --FOo 17:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

But what can I do to defend myself and other users from these abuses?

Well, you can go to WP:ArbCom, the arbitration committee, and file a formal complaint. Which may or may not do any good, as I've yet to see ArbCom take action against an administrator for abusing an non admin editor, whether the admin violated policy or not. I have a case right now there claiming an admin violated at the very least WP:AGF with a indefinite block, and ArbCom has so far (yawn) asked if I could come up with any other violations. So I did. Silence. Similarly, I've seen people blocked by admins for violation of WP:CIVIL, but on this very page you will see an administrator label my comments as "assholery." A term which in the language has no purpose, AFAIK, other than incivility. Result, no action by anybody. So, good luck. Steve 18:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It's like this: as soon as an admin steps in to control an edit war, they are asserted by the POV pushers to be "involved in a content dispute". If we accept that at face value, we soon run out of admins with any understanding of the issue. The loudest protests are usually fomr the most tendentious editors. Simply policing WP:NPOV is not necessarily involvement. I don't know what went on here, but there is little doubt that the people asserting the "controlled demolition" theory are conspiracy theorists and not "independent researchers". Just zis Guy you know? 21:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What evidence have you that this is the case? In the present case, we don't simply have an administrator wandering by and dealing with vandalism, then getting accused of conflict of interest. The admin in question seems to have been involved in the conflict well prior. In such a case, the accepted and respectable thing to do is to request that an uninvolved administrator investigate and take action. Nobody is claiming that a block can't result if one is appropriate. But in cases of apparent conflict of interest, admins are supposed to seek review -- not to use admin access while in conflict. --FOo 05:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

How to identify a conspiracy theory in five easy stages:

1. It goes against the orthodox view and proposes some sinister motive
2. It is denied by all those involved; this denial is asserted as evidence supporting the theory
3. There is no credible evidence to support it; this lack of evidence is asserted as a cover-up and thus evidence to support the theory
4. An alternative, more prosaic explanation is available and generally accepted
5. Proponents reverse the burden of proof, requiring that the theory be disproved rather than proving it themselves.

I'm guessing that the "explosives" were detonated from a grassy knoll... The same five tests appear to apply to MONGO's actions as well. Just zis Guy you know? 07:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Your (not so funny) joke on conspiracy theories shows clearly the *a priori* bias of your point of view on this case.--Pokipsy76 07:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Conspiracy theories also violate Occam's razor immediately, as they call for multiplying causes beyond the necessary. Geogre 15:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The best advice I can offer is to be very calm and measured. Ask, on WP:AN (not here), for other administrators to review the situation. "Administrators" disagree with each other often enough, and there shouldn't be any special divine right to the position. You can also ask (not demand, not threaten, not accuse) MONGO to get another administrator to look in. I doubt he'd had any reluctance in doing so. However, when you come in suggesting that it's Us and Them, that the persecuted truth is being hunted to extinction by the evil cabal, etc., it's fairly offputting. Most administrators are administrators because they've been pretty carefully watched and assessed before getting the position, so there is some inherent trust there and a slightly larger benefit of the doubt, but the community is pretty quick to reverse inappropriate administrative actions. Geogre 03:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• No actually, MONGO pretty much blocks on sight when anyone questions him, come to think of it, he does the same thing when people agree with him--64.12.116.65 03:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Did you ask him to seek an outside point of view in this case? Again, step away from calling names. Geogre 15:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Then file arbitration if you can prove that slander.--MONGO 04:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't make legal threats such as accusing a fellow editor of a crime. --FOo 05:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

First, it's not a legal threat. Second, you appear to be applying a double standard: you feel free to insult MONGO and accuse him of abuse of power but you are unwilling for him to defend himself. Just zis Guy you know? 07:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

(following Geogre's comment) I'd also like to encourage any adminstrator whom has a claim raised against them to be "calm and measured." I know it's irritating to be villified. But when we snap back it makes it hard to sort out the "I'm cranky because this is silly" from the "I'm cranky because I got caught out." I've yet to see an accusation that could not have been well responded to with civility and tact. I might also hope that when staging a defence, the use of actual evidence be encouraged? - brenneman 05:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Pokipsy76 here. MONGO, you were (and are) out of line. Calling them 'conspiracists' seems clearly derogatory and thus not 'NPOV'... which makes Pokipsy's effort to change it to 'some' or 'some independant researchers' look not unreasonable to me (despite agreeing the claims seem unlikely / far-fetched). However, let's assume for the moment that isn't the case... 'conspiracists' was a perfectly neutral, reasonable, and encyclopedic term to use and no other would do. You'd still be completely out of line. This was a content dispute between the two of you... pure and simple. Blocking someone for disagreeing with your version of what an article should say is an inexcusable violation of adminship... it shouldn't be done ever. He wasn't "trolling" as you said in the block summary or being disruptive, indeed you seem to have acted considerably more incivilly. You called it "trolling" in the block summary, but elsewhere you said it was for 'reverting you'... you can't block for that. Ever. And you certainly shouldn't be nasty and dismissive about it. Protecting someone's talk page to prevent them from requesting unblock (I realize that wasn't you) also strikes me as extremely 'not kosher'. If the request is groundless the next admin will see that... just put in comments on why you think the block is sound. --CBD 14:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The POV pushers that try to add nonsense to the articles related to the 9/11 events have been told repeatedly that the vast majority of their "contributions" to those article violated numerous policies. This doesn't seem to stop them. This editor I blocked routinely reverts those that support the concensus verison and yes, conspiracy theorists is what they are...they are not researchers. Simply put, and I won't apologize for this not being more civil, I will continue to block POV pushers that disrupt the discussion pages and the articles with nonsense. Two other admins responded to the unblock request and did not unblock this editor. I then moved the early parts of this conversation from an article talk page to here for all to see. It is ludicrus to assume that I was doing anything other than to ensure that the POV pushers of nonsense know that there is a limit to the level of disruption that needs to be tolerated.--MONGO 15:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The fact that a majority of people (including myself) agree with a characterization does not make it 'neutral point of view'. Isn't that obvious? Or should we rewrite the 'Hitler' article to say that he was a 'vile murderous bastard' because most people agree with that? That the people who argue for controlled demolition are 'conspiracy theorists' (or "conspiracists" as in the article) may well be the common view... but it ISN'T "neutral" or 'encyclopedic'. It's a deliberately derogatory presentation which should be changed to something more neutral. You say above that he has repeatedly been told that his edits "violated numerous policies". What policy did he violate by changing 'Some conspiracists say...' to 'Some say...' and/or 'Some independant researchers say...'? Edit warring? Weren't you doing that too? A policy which definitely was violated is the restriction against admins blocking those with whom they are in a content dispute. Indeed, you went so far as to say, "He's going to post an unblock request and I have told him that if he reverts me one more time, the next block will be for a week." What is that? 'If you dare to revert me I will block you for a week'? You think admins are supposed to act that way? I understand that you may be frustrated and annoyed, but that's a reason to take several steps back... not charge forward. If dealing with the craziness is starting to get to you go work on some other topic. I haven't touched political articles in months for just that reason. You say several admins approved this... well shame on them. IMO that's worse than doing it in the first place. I'm telling you that you 'crossed the line' not to get in your face, but to let you know that I think you need to get away from this for a while and reconsider your position. In my view those saying (effectively), 'yeah, admins should block people who revert their edits... we decide what is good enough for inclusion' are doing more harm to you (and Misplaced Pages) than my criticisms. --CBD 16:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It would appear that it is you that is being hotheaded. I am very familiar with this editor and I posted plenty below that clearly demostrates that he/she has edit warred over this phrasing, even though numerous other ediotrs have clearly reverted him. It is not a content dispute if he has no concensus for removing the terms conspiracy and theory. I think you should reconsider your position and recognize that two other admins saw the block for what it was...a block for vandalism.--MONGO 16:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

C'mon. Which of us has been saying "nonsense", "trolling", "vandalism", et cetera? What do I even have to be "hotheaded" about here? I'm trying to stop a train wreck, but it really has nothing to do with me. As to this having been "a block for vandalism". You called it a block for "trolling" in the block summary... and a block for "reverting" on Tom Harrison's edit page. Now it's vandalism? This is vandalism? Look at it. There is no way that, or any of the other links you gave in response to Geogre below, is anywhere even close to 'vandalism' as defined under Misplaced Pages policy. None. Please stop this. I may be alone in questioning your block, but several people have urged you to calm down / use less inflammatory wording. This wasn't vandalism. --CBD 17:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to step in with CBDunkerson on one point: even if the edits provoked a strong emotional reaction, they were clearly not vandalism, and the creeping use of that term is worrying. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 20:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Was this a 3RR? Could you have just rolled them back? My point is that the block, when you're involved, gives them fuel. I don't want to advocate a revert war, of course. (And I was up on 89th E. when the towers went down. Conspiracy theorists about the tower attacks are not only inventing where plain evidence is abundant, they're also highly offensive to those of us who knew people who died.) If they're horking you off (and they are, it seems), at least hand off the blocking phase. Geogre 15:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

No, it was, in my opinion, vandalism. A great many of the editors that contest terms such as conspiracy theorists may feel insulted by the wording, but they have no concensus, after many, many kb's exhausted on the discussion pages, for removing the terminology used. It was not a content dispute and Pokipsy76 seems to do some drive-by reverts., removed information and templated references, again, as the last link, then spent several days arguing without concensus to alter the subheading in the same article , , , , , , , . You'll notice that he has reverted numerous other editors about this same phrasing, and done so without concensus.--MONGO 16:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

1.The original version of the article had the paragraph named "controlled demolition theories", then you and others tried repeatedly to change to "conspiracy theories", I was not the only one to oppose to this change that means that you didn't have the consensus, or if you prefer you and others "spent several days arguing without concensus to alter the subheading". Are you suggesting that you can do this while I and the other "conspiracists" can't? On what grounds? Because we are "POV pushers of nonsenses"?

2.I have been reverting just a) in cases when it was clear that there was no consensus because someone else already did a revert before or b) in cases when I did disagree with a revert of other people, so in all the cases the people that have been reverted by me didn't have the consesus.

3.There was a content (the way to call the "controlled demolition theorists") that was disputed (someone wanted to have this content in a way some other ones in another way, and me and you were between these groups), so we were involved in a content dispute.

--Pokipsy76 17:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This isn't a content dispute between the Mongo and Pokipsky. This is persistent tendentious editing by a few conspiracy theorists who are determined to add their speculation to every page related to 9/11, with links to videos and books. The consensus is against him, and Pokipsky's actions have long since become disruptive. Mongo's block was neccessary and appropriate. Tom Harrison 16:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You and MONGO were trying to add text, I and the other "conspiracists" were just trying to keep the old version. By the way what you describe is just an example of content dispute.--Pokipsy76 17:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Mongo might have been advised to get someone else to actually implement the block. The Conspiracy Theorists who are edit-warring over the insertion of small-minorty POV in all articles related to that small-minority POV, however, are not editing the encyclopedia to make it more informative, but rather to win a debate about how there is a grand conspiracy to do something. As such, Mongo is right, thought I feel he would be righter if he just asked someone else to block them indefinently for exausting the communities patience. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Block for what? MONGO has claimed this to be "trolling" and "vandalism". To me it looks like an attempt to insert NPOV wording. We don't block for that. At least... we aren't supposed to. 'They are wrong, so we get to use insulting and derogatory terms to describe them' also falls a little short of 'neutral' and 'encyclopedic' in my book. --CBD 21:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Opinion observed and no changes will be implemented by me. I continue to defend the known facts from POV pushing trolls as long as I have time. Your continued attempts to twist this into a content dispute and to misunderstand what the conspiracy theorists are up to, indicates to me that you should really get busy reading our policies. These are sensitive articles, and the tolerance threshold for nonsense pushing is naturally lower...just as our tolerance for the same is lower on our biographies.--MONGO 22:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Ditto. --CBD 23:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

1.Yes MONGO may have been advised someone else (maybe CBD?) but he didn't and he did the block, sorry.

2.On what grounds can you speak about a "small minority POV", did you know about this: ?

3.I don't know any policy about blocking for supporting "small minority POVs" (assuming that I was supporting those) instead I know a policy about NPOV and about blocks, who violated those?

4.The accusation of "not editing the encyclopedia to make it more informative, but rather to win a debate" is not consistent with WP:AGF and can be redirected to people who try to push in the artcile the "official version is right" POV.

5.If the people supporting two POV are numerically the same it makes no sense to block half of the editors for "exausting the patience" of the other half, unless you find a policy to support one of the parrties.--Pokipsy76 07:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

We block whackos trying to ruin our encyclopedia? What a novel concept! *chokes* --mboverload@ 23:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes!! This is the true spirit of our democratic encyclopedia!!--Pokipsy76 07:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

These guys have been trying to insert this...material...into 911 articles over and over against consensus, a consensus that has been uniform since the day it became an issue. They are tireless in their attempts to insert unfounded, non-notable and obvouisly POV assertions into our 911 articles, and the articles would be a mockery if there wasn't pushback. Tom Harrison just above has it exactly right. Rx StrangeLove 14:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Mboverload and Rx StrangeLove, you are seemingly talking about something else entirely since your comments bear no resemblance whatsoever to the topic at hand. Again, this is the type of 'heinous' edit which you are being uncivil and/or making personal attacks over. For the record, "Some conpiracy theorists disagree..." is POV while, "Some diagree..." is NPOV. It may be satisfying to use derogatory terms to describe these people. It may be widely agreed. It may even be true. But it isn't neutral point of view. Any more than saying, 'Hitler was a vile murdering bastard' is 'neutral' just because it is widely agreed. The fact that some group is unpopular is not an excuse to toss our civility, personal attacks, NPOV, and consensus editing policies out the window. That these obvious truths have escaped so many here is a travesty for Misplaced Pages. --CBD 16:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You're so wrong about what is going on with these articles, it's laughable. Just yesterday, one of the more prolific conspiracy theorists was identified as using a strawman sockpuppet, just to make his preposterous nonsense seem more credible. The websites that some of these people have been affliated with or simply read, have issued a call to arms from time to time and called for like minded people to go and edit wikipedia to push their POV. You claim that those that support the known factual evidence are not following concensus? Ridiculous. So terrorists becomes freedom fighter? So conspiracy theorist becomes independent researcher? It is also preposterous to say that by using the term conspiracy theorists that it is somehow the same as editing that "Hitler was a vile murdering bastard". I simply cannot disagree with this more. If you find the wording so problematic, then go over to those articles and edit till your heart is content...you'll probably get reverted, but the only possible explanation would be because people like me are POV pushers of nonsense, right? Good day.--MONGO 19:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you were done talking to me. In any case, your citation of what other people did, and distortions of my position, make a less than convincing argument for why you get to block anyone who dares to revert your edits. --CBD 21:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually no, I know exactly what I'm talking about, thanks. I think you may be the one that has an incomplete picture of what's been going on. And while we're on that topic, please read the first 2 sentences in your note above and tell me where I've been uncivil or have been making personal attacks. It's that kind of totally baseless comment that leads me to believe that you have a very incomplete understanding of what's been going on. This is this issues 3rd (at least) appearance at either AN or AN/I and these accusations have gained very little traction. Rx StrangeLove 19:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You keep talking about "these guys" and what 'they' have done... not this guy and what actually happened here. To me that reads like, 'they are wrong so any abuse directed at them is ok'. Tell me why it was ok to block Pokipsy76 for that edit... or how your comments are an accurate description of what >he< actually did. How does removing the words "conspiracy theorists" amount to an attempt "to insert unfounded, non-notable and obvouisly POV assertions"? --CBD 21:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree strongly with RX above - from my investigation, this is the type of heinous edit which they are blocking people who are not here to edit an encyclopedia over. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That edit was not made by the person who was blocked. The edit I linked to above was specifically linked by MONGO (the blocker) as an example of why Pokipsy76 was blocked. That edit and others like it were not blockable offenses. Indeed, they look to me like NPOV improvements, but at worst were a minor content dispute between Pokipsy76 and the person who blocked him. Are you arguing that Pokipsy76 should be blocked for things done by another user? --CBD 21:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I provided links above that demostrated the MO of this editor that I blocked...he had been trying to edit war and disrupt the article, against the concensus of editors that reverted his changes...he was even reverting NPOV edits I made in which I had added correctly cited material, in format with the style in the article, which I had worked on to try and improve the article. You completely misunderstand the MO of editors such as this. If you don't know what you are talking about, then you only make yourself look foolish. You argue that the block was wrong...then file an Rfc on it! I strongly recommend you do so.--MONGO 23:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

1.If I was edir warring you were doing exactly the same.

2.On what grounds can I be accused of trying to disrupt the article?

3.If I acted against the consensus of the pople that reverted me that also you and the reverting people were acting against the consensus of me and the oteìher peolpe that reverted you.

4.When you say this: "he was even reverting NPOV edits I made in which I had added correctly cited material, in format with the style in the article, which I had worked on to try and improve the article" I don't know what you are referring to or what is the relation to the case under discussion.

5. What do you mean by "editor such this"? Do you mean aditor that revert without explanation? Or do you mean editors that push POV ?

--Pokipsy76 08:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

As incouraged by mongo I filed an RfC on this case, please certify the basis for this dispute here--Pokipsy76 11:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd generally not go with RfC (which all too often has a 'punitive' focus) over one problem incident, but since the process is already underway I will comment there. --CBD 13:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

• Proposal: Since this has now strayed well past any call to action I propose it be archived or moved to Talk, to clear the noticeboard for actual incidents requiring action. Just zis Guy you know? 08:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Proposal of community ban for Frater FiatLux

I propose that Frater_FiatLux (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) be banned from Misplaced Pages for being intentionally disruptive. Facts to follow. -Baba Louis 16:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Any such follow-up should be at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comments. Please follow our dispute resolution system. Thanks. Jkelly 17:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. The RfC is here. ---Baba Louis 15:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

General Tojo

I was called to assist on Talk:Parkinson's disease. There have been serial reverts and a possible 3RR. I left a message on the talkpage of General Tojo (talk · contribs), one of the disputants, cautioning him that abrasive rhetoric and personal attacks were not contributory.

In response this editor has now been performing random reverts on articles I have edited recently. Evidence on his talkpage.

A simple warning may be enough, but I suspect short blocks may be necessary if this behaviour persists. JFW | T@lk 16:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Left a message on the user's talk page. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 18:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Lasted for 9 minutes, now refactored. JFW | T@lk 18:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

A user is entitled to blank anything that's not a legitimately issued warning, even if archiving is preferred; it's still in the history. If the user edits in a disruptive fashion, however, that's another matter. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 18:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As a clarification: users in good standing are afforded the privilege of blanking stuff on their talk page. Users with, shall we say, "issues", are not afforded that same privilege. --Cyde↔Weys 19:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

LOL well, let's just say the good General does not have a monopoly on issues ;) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

For the record, User:PaulWicks has offered an explanation for the above edit. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 21:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

On Paul Wicks' talk page, Dan reveals what he believes to be RL information about Tojo.--Anchoress 21:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

General Tojo simply carried on messing about, doing a "half-revert" on Parkinson's disease to subvert the 3RR and threatening on the talk page to finish the job tomorrow. I have blocked him for 24h for NPA, gaming the system and general WP:DICK. He seems to be a well-known troll from Braintalk. JFW | T@lk 23:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Edit-warring aside, why has he been permitted to keep this username? Tojo was a convicted war criminal and such, after all. Kirill Lokshin 01:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• This is an utterly unacceptable username. It must be changed. I dropped the user a note informing him that he must apply for a WP:CHU. As for the people who knew of this username and said nothing, I need to calm down before I'm going to say something I'll regret. Shameful. El_C 10:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

See Hideki Tojo for details. The response to El C's request has been more trolling. I sense civility burnout. JFW | T@lk 12:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked the user indefinitely and protected the talk page. His responses were totally unacceptable. El_C 19:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Somebody has a name that nobody has ever previously objected to. They are notified that their user name must be changed. Before the warning period even expires that person is banned permanently. It is obvious from the above, that ElC personally disliked the name and banned as soon as possible based on ElC's personal dislike of the name (*This is an utterly unacceptable username. It must be changed). Is that actually in the Misplaced Pages rules, because it appears that ElC is abusing them based on ElC's own personal likes and dislikes rather than properly implemeted procedure. It also appears to be in breach of the requirement to give proper notice of banning and the reasons. Is it right some Administrators exceed regulations based on their own personal bias.

Much of this discussion is based on what JFW has written. He himself was criticised by an Administrator for the excesses and inconsistencies of his actions. So why have decisions taken notice of what he has written when he himself was shown to be at fault ? Why also is he allowed to get away with personal attacks ("a well-known troll from Braintalk"), especially when discussions elsewhere of this personal attack showed that the personal attack had no factual basis ?

Are Administrators allowed to abuse or disregard the regulations as ElC and JFW have done ? --Jonee G. Ralto 21:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Jonee G. Ralto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) blocked indefinitely for serving as a proxy for User:General Tojo . El_C 21:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Um, didn't you tell that user to get a new name? Jkelly 21:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed I did, but that was before the "racism" and "arrogance" diatribes. El_C 22:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah. I see. Jkelly 22:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense. A quick scan of WP:U shows several rules which would forbid the use of username "General Tojo". The username was, as El C said, utterly unacceptable. Kasreyn 00:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

ElC has just proven his intolerance and inability to rebut his abuse of power. If he can't answer somebody he tries to shut them up. He has also just proven that he is a liar. Nowhere during the discussions was General Tojo racist as he has deceitfully claimed in order to try to justify his misconduct. This can be fully verified in the correspondence. So the excuses for his misconduct do not stand up to scrutiny. Also, General Tojo, who I know very very well, is actually a member of an anti racist organistation, thereby making a mockery of what constitutes libel. Is libel allowed on Misplaced Pages ? Arrogance is such a vague term - deliberately vague on his part so that it cannot be properly assessed. He himself has shown that he is remarkably arrogant. He was completely unable to rebut any of the criticisms of his abuses of power and instead rushed to a permanent banning. Do what he says - he won't and can't explain himself - or he'll ban you even if his actions are in breach of Misplaced Pages guidelines. He is an Administrator of the worst kind. --El Corrupt 22:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Needless to say, indefinitely blocked. El_C 22:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Another "abuse of power" El_C threatened me with a final warning not to revert comments that he erased on my own talk page. User_talk:Travb/Archive_5#Somewhat_involving_Norman_Coleman_.3B.29 Its like a dog, El_C does it cause he can. Travb (talk) 22:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I take exception to that personal attack and distrotion. I removed Jonee G. Ralto's very first —stalking— edit. Travb does not bother to review the facts and is too quick to assume bad faith. El_C 22:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Travb, you need to tone down your language and take an AGF pill. If you have a problem with another editor's actions or judgment, fine, talk it out calmly: communication and collaboration are key here on Misplaced Pages. You don't seem to be getting it. Your confrontational and accusatory tone is the exact opposite of resolving disputes. Dmcdevit·t 23:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

TELL THE WIKITRUTH! Mackensen (talk) 01:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I gotta admitt, the fact he was allowed to keep that username for so long is really getting to me. El_C 06:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

El_C has here blatantly lied by claiming that he banned a member for racism (a member, who incidentally is a member of an anti-racist organisation). He has been completely unable to rebut that fact. He instead dispensed with all of Misplaced Pages's guidelines and procedures by banning a member solely because of his personal interests. He now admits above that it was because the name annoyed him. This is because El_C is a lecturer in Japanese history, and it was a Japanese military name that he objected to. Somebody who abuses Misplaced Pages, blatantly lies about his reasons in order to cover them up, and bases his own actions solely on his own needs and prejudices is not fit to be an administrator. As can be seen above, when faced with criticism he tries to deflect the criticism by arrogantly criticisng the critic. He himself should be banned. ... added in two edits on 23 June by 88.106.150.206

If you think he should be banned, then note that banning is a step beyond de-sysopping, so follow the advice conspicuously given at the top of this very page. Wherever you write your complaint, note that putting the whole thing in boldface won't make it more persuasive; it will just make you look like a blowhard and also remarkably like the late "General Tojo". But if that's the impression you want to make, fine. Hoary 10:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

From what I've seen, User:General Tojo only writes in bold text (see his talk page). El_C 11:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ceiling cat vandal: 2!

It seems we have a return of the ceiling cat vandal, this time in the 152.163.100.* range. Just thought everyone would like to know that. --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 18:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

He/she is also vandalizing from the 207.200.116.* range again as well. -Big Smooth 19:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I've been reverting a ton of this in the last few minutes. I'd suggest blocking the range for a few minutes. --Alphachimp 02:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked 152.163.100.0/24 for 15 minutes. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 02:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm really sorry I was so angry, above. This is how to handle the situation, exactly, as those are (sigh) the AOL ranges. I even have a sneaking sensation that the vandal operates at relatively predictable times. I wish AOL didn't do things this way, but I also wish Microsoft weren't evil. Geogre 03:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

No need to apologize. Anger means you're passionate about protecting wikipedia. --mboverload@ 03:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

How about we block AOL for :15 in response to an AOL vandal? (Half-serious, but vandals seem to jump ranges.) — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 17:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User to watch.

Not sure where to post this, but User:Naveen Sankar had an infobox on his user page, which falsely claimed him to be an administrator. I removed it. Based on editing history, I suspect that this user and User:Aanand Pranav Sharma are the same person, and that the same person also uses many other usernames and IP addresses (e.g. User:Wiki Administrator of Physics and User:Austin Maxwell.) Amusingly, the user pages of the first two accounts I listed seem to have based their opening paragraph on the one from my own user page.--Srleffler 22:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• I had a similar thing with User:Notanerd, which copied my user page in whole, and the talk page of another user.--Pharos 07:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Request blocking for User:Onestone

This user has been involved in a number of controversies and I now request that he/she be blocked for the following three reasons: A) They engage in blanking and vandalism (example example2 B)They engage in personal attack on talk pages example C) They have removed allegations of vandalism and other things on the now blocked Moderator3000. Which makes me think they could be a sockpuppet of Moderator. example Thank-you. Nobleeagle (Talk) 23:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Twenty-four hr block, for now. El_C 23:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Office Space

I'm having a slight disagreement with Leflyman (talk · contribs) at Office Space. Per provision 3 of WP:V and also Jimbo's comments therein, I removed some unsourced fan trivias and cite-tagged a couple of others. Leflyman has twice reverted me, the second with the edit summary "revert unwarranted deletions". I've pointed out the relevant policy on the article talk page and left a couple of (thus far unanswered) messages on his talk page. What to do? Deizio talk 23:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Seems we've come to an agreement. Deizio talk 01:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• It's not really necessary to rush to the notice board for minor disputes over verifiability of trivia. As noted at WP:AN, "Please be aware that these pages aren't the place to bring disputes over content, or reports of abusive behaviour..."--Leflyman 01:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Biff_loman9 has been blocked indefinitely

I just blocked Biff loman9 indefinitely. This started as a personal attack case, so I blocked him for 24 hours. Almost immediately, he started using socks to get around the block. So I blocked him for 3 days. So then we got this, we went up to 9 days. And then he pledged to continue using socks. So I blocked him indefinitely. And this is just a small sample. All of the contributions of 67.71.143.54, 67.71.142.157 and a bunch of other IPs in the 67.71.143.* and 67.71.142.* ranges. I ask that others watchlist Thanos for sure. --Woohookitty 01:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The user in question just kept on trolling. The block is entirely legitimate given the circumstances, in my opinion -- Samir धर्म 03:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

He uses a dynamic IP so stopping him is going to be a challenge. --Woohookitty 04:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User:A Sister and a Lover

A Sister and a Lover (talk · contribs · logs) I'm concerned by this username and the edit summaries to some articles. Yanksox 06:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Me thinks this could be related to Incestuous amour (talk · contribs · logs), blocked indef, who edited these pages above. User:Zscout370 06:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The edit summaries are telling and sway the balance to indef block in my opinion -- Samir धर्म 06:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that's him. Note the null edits, only changing like 1 space. --Rory096 07:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

AOL Range block

Although I have no objections to raising blocks above 15 minutes for persistant AOL vandalism, the current block of 1 week seems extreme. Since I can't find any mention of this 1 week block I am loathe to remove it without knowing what escalation in problems caused it. And as I am not going to be around I can't unblock and monitor it. Can someone look into this. --pgk 07:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Already unblocked by Dmcdevit. If this was for the Ceiling cat dude, there's no need to block for a week, he's constantly changing ranges. (Oddly he usually waits the 15 minutes until the block expires, though.) --Rory096 07:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am off to bed, but I'd appreciate it if someone could watch User talk:WBardwin and make sure he's able to edit again. Range blocking AOL for any length of time is a seriously silly idea which will always prevent valuable contributors from editing. Dmcdevit·t 08:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Whoever blocked for a week was way out of line. Vandalism is bad. Contributors are better. Geogre 13:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There have been times where I have been forced to range block an AOL range, though I only do it for 15 minutes (usually makes them stop) and only in an emergency. That time it was a person creating talkpages of pornographic spam, while constantly switching IPs. 1 week is excessive though. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopediabaxter and Reecenelson sockpuppets

This edit together with the vandalism on William Clarke College suggests to me Encyclopediabaxter (talk · contribs) and Reecenelson (talk · contribs) are sockpuppets of each other and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more. Is a checkuser to find any as of yet undiscovered vandalism by other accounts from their IP appropriate? - Mgm| 11:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandal

Hi. user:Nagara373 is persistently vandalising pages. User also seems to have an IP sockpuppet, although I'm not sure. Would welcome intervention. --Dweller 11:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• I've dropped a welcome template on his talk and tried to explain his information was inappropriate. Hopefully this gets the message across. He doesn't seem particularly malicious, just newbie-ish. - Mgm| 11:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Nagara373 (talk · contribs) doesn't appear to heed any of the requests and warnings people have been posting to him and he keeps adding the same information over and over again (some of it copyrighted, some of it totally irrelevant to the article). I've now blocked him for 24 hours in the hope of getting his attention. My block message on his talk page invites him to discuss with others and asks him to read the messages on his talk page as well as the welcome message. - Mgm| 10:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Permanent deletion of malicious identifying information - AGAIN

For the second time one editor has abused the edit summary facility here in an attempt to maliciously post identifying information about me, I would very much like that permanently deleted...no point sanctioning the user because he never comes back on the same IP twice these days see: Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Samvak(2nd). Thanks in anticipation. --Zeraeph 11:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Note that the anonymous editor seems to come from a narrow IP range, so perhaps an IP range block is in order. I'm not too familiar with that, though, so I will leave that to someone else. Eugène van der Pijll 13:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

And once again thanks, for such a swift response --Zeraeph 13:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Constantine Conspiracy...Doc/Ril

I seem to have entered theAuthentic Matthew mess! I used http://pedia.nodeworks.com/A/AU/AUT/Authentic_Matthew/ (a big mistake)! I am not able to defend myself against DocUser:-Ril- ! Would an admin please look into this very bad situation --MeBee 02:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• What the hell are you talking about?--64.12.116.65 03:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
  • -Ril- (talk · contribs) hasn't posted on Misplaced Pages since being banned in March. In the last three weeks, Doc glasgow (talk · contribs) has a total of one post of one sentence. A little hard to see how they can be attacking you. Fan1967 03:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the subject of a current checkuser request. Thatcher131 13:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

AOL ] vandal

This vandal is back on User:207.200.116.0/24 range. As reported in WP:AIV --WinHunter 13:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Can someone with appropriate rights just add Image:Ceiling cat 00.jpg to MediaWiki:Bad image list? 68.17.14.126 13:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Added. I don't know if that'll stop the vandalism, but I'm willing to give it a try. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Bad idea. He'll just use another image, and we won't be able to track it. --Rory096 14:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. Will stop. Cleaning up vandalism isn't easy, but that hsouldn't stop us from doing what is needed. Andthe image will be gone in 2 days anyway, so the point is moot. -- Drini 14:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

blocked, i.e. vandalism

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN I HAVE NEVER ATTEMPTED TO EDIT ANY ARTICLE OR PAGE ON WIKIPEDIA, NOR HAVE I EVER VANDALIZED ANY ARTICLE OR PAGE. I HAVE BEEN A READER ONLY. I ALWAYS LOG IN BEFORE LOOKING UP ANY ARTICLE, AND YET I AM CONSTANTLY RECEIVING ACCUSATORY MESSAGES, AND AM AT PRESENT BLOCKED - WHICH I SUPPOSE DOESN'T MATTER SINCE I HAVE NO DESIRE TO EDIT ANYTHING. BUT IT IS ANNOYING NONETHELESS. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ShagT@aol.com (talk • contribs)

I've left a note for User:ShagT@aol.com, who is obviously an AOL user, pointing to Misplaced Pages:Advice for AOL users. FreplySpang 14:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

First suggestion, please don't TYPE IN ALL CAPS, this is considered "shouting". Second suggestion, cancel your AOL (be prepared to spend 45 minutes on the phone as they attempt to deflect the request in every way possible) and get a real Internet Service Provider. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 14:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Third suggestion: don't patronise people! :) As it happens, in the UK AOL are one of the few companies to offer unmetered (unlimited) broadband on a British Telecom line making them a good choice for a lot of technically savvy users! It's generally people who think they know the score but who actually know very little that make the tired old AOL crack.

Anyway: just a note to say, this thread has been answered at User talk:ShagT@aol.com. --kingboyk 14:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I am one of a massive handful of people who believe AOL blows—even moreso now that I've dealt with some of the messes from an administrative standpoint. Calling someone an idiot (or the like) for using AOL would patronize; suggesting they get a real ISP is a deserved opinion. ;) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

UK AOL? Isn't that a contradiction? --Rory096 14:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's not get into that. My point is that being "superior" doesn't help. I'm surprised he wasn't told to switch to Linux and Firefox at the same time! :) --kingboyk 14:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC) (for the record: non-AOL user, has a Linux box with a handrolled kernel, uses Firefox despite its memory bloat)

So you didn't use a makisu on that kernel? ;) Syrthiss 14:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Demon, whom I use, also have unmetred access, and they aren't shit. --Sam Blanning 15:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

a loosely related question, why on earth do people see "you are blocked" messages before they even attempt to edit? It unnerves and angers readers for nothing. Block notices should only come up at the time a user attempts to do an edit, since, duh, they are blocked from editing. dab (ᛏ) 15:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You don't see the blocked message until you edit (except for talk messages, like test5, of course). What do you mean? --Rory096 15:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You do if you follow a red link, which of course is technically trying to edit it... --pgk 16:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Mystery not mysterious: If the user is an IP, or even if he isn't -- if he merely doesn't have "remember me on this computer" checked -- when he first gets to Misplaced Pages, he'll have "You have messages" lit up. When he clicks on that, he'll see "You are blocked, you nasty thing, you." The block message is directed at the IP, but, if he doesn't know that the IP is just one among thousands at AOL and that it's not directed at his user name, he could, before logging in, get the impression that it was directed at him. Given this user's, and many others', for that matter, technical expertise (and people who aren't good with computers may well be architects and entomologists and other highly intelligent, trained, and valuable persons who could crush the computer nerds making fun of them), it's quite possible for him to have that misunderstanding. Geogre 13:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User 213.232.79.149

There are multiple warnings and block messages on this users talk page. (I hope this is the correct place to put this note up) Again, this morning the user vandalized another page. This time another User's page. Not sure what is done to mulitple offenders but will place here to find out! Lsjzl 14:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked 2 months (previous 1-month block failed to get the message over). In the future, please take these to WP:AIV. Thanks. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 14:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Mass category creation by Imthehappywanderer

In the last 2 days or so, Imthehappywanderer (talk · contribs) has created over 150 new categories. I don't know if that's a problem or not but I've never seen that kind of behavior before and it looks odd. New account too, about 14 days old. Thatcher131 14:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment See the user's talk page as well. Multiple other users have left comments on either recreated categories (previous deletes) or circular categories. Lsjzl 14:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Mywayyy wanting to have it his wayyy

Mywayyy (talk · contribs) was blocked tonight for a massive revert war on multiple articles, removing the Turkish placenames from geographical articles about Greece (Kalymnos, Kos, Samos Island, Simi, Alexandroupoli and others). AN/3 report here: . Now back continuing reverting under several anonymous IPs from the 88.218.*.* range:

• 88.218.55.223 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 88.218.46.114 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 88.218.42.195 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 88.218.37.205 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 88.218.50.32 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 88.218.43.178 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

Can we have a range-block, and/or extension of block on the main account? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you run a WHOIS to see where the IP's resolve? If the guy is using a public library, kiosk, or school, we may have to be pretty delicate with a range block. Geogre 15:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Right now I'm having difficulties using the WHOIS. The WHOIS link in the checkip template above isn't resulting in anthing, and that in my popups has mysteriously vanished :-( Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

- It's an ISP in Athens, Greece. 88.218.32.0 - 88.218.63.255 . —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Or 88.218.32.0/19. Saves space! Will (message me!) 15:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Non-static, then? I'd urge caution on any extended range blocks, but 24 hr can be a good starting point, and then we need to be very alert to collateral complaints. (Of course, if 24 hr goes by without collateral damage and the person resumes after that, going for a week would be logical. These nomenclature wars never end well.) Geogre 15:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Athens? I got Thessaloniki... Anyways, I listed the IPs at WP:RFCU. —Khoikhoi 21:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I half expect Essjay over there is going to tell us that this is one of the obvious cases he refuses to check. But thanks for taking the trouble! Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please guys, do something, he's still on it ... Fut.Perf. ☼ 05:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Manipulating RFC

I already posted a complaint regarding the blatant manipulation of a poll. Nobody responded. The RFC I started was deleted, after restoring it the same editor is altering that RFC. Can somebody please interven, since when I deal with this vandalism I get blocked! Nomen Nescio 15:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Its not a RFC first of all, I have told you that numerous times. Second you are attempting to classify everyone vote on a semi-related poll to fit your interpretation. I removed your commentary on what you feel those people were saying with their votes and added the vote count + the questions. Which is more appropriate then you summarizing what you think those 10 people were saying into 1 sentence. You also removed the comments I added to that poll when you first completely misrepresented what was even being asked in the poll. The polls are about infoboxes not about the general question of if the WOT and War in Iraq are related, no matter how much you attempt to slant it to be about that. And stop posting your NPA / Vandalism tags on my page. --zero faults 15:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You also removed my comments from it You did not want to mention that did you? --zero faults 15:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course there is then me being called a zealot. --zero faults 15:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

How can this not be a RFC when it is filed as such? Please somebody interven. This is ridiculous, this user is gaming the system, deleting every comment contrary to his political view in a RFC and I simply do not know what to do next. Nomen Nescio 15:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Its a straw poll ... --zero faults 15:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

That right there is the problem with this user "contrary to his political view". Your political opinion does not belong on Misplaced Pages. NPOV. My political opinion is not what can be supported by facts, and so I do not force it on others. --zero faults 15:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If political view is not important than you sure3ly do not object on any RFC trying to ascertain the facts. Do tell why you nevertheless feel the need to rewrite the RFC to suit your political view. Nomen Nescio 16:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

So, your complaint is that User:Zer0faults has been deleting your comments from Talk:Iraq War, thus: , claiming that they are "a straw poll"? Is that the issue? Deleting of other's comments from an article's talk page is almost never acceptable. FeloniousMonk 16:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

That is why I post it on AV and here. Again Zero did the same several days ago (see history for my comments on it on this page) and got away with it since nobody feels it needs intervention. Interestingly I got blocked for 3RR when I restored my comments at that time. Nomen Nescio 16:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, looking over the Usertalk page of Zer0faults, here and here, it appears he has an longstanding and ongoing personal grudge against you. Viewed in that light his actions at Talk:Iraq War are petty harassment. That needs to stop. FeloniousMonk 16:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you look at Nomens page and see people asking him to participate instead of reverting? Did you look at what he was adding in? a misrepresentation of peoples votes in a poll. --zero faults 17:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

His petty comments on my person I have no problem with. Some people never grow up. However, the repeated removal and alterations of my comments I do object to. Al I ask is for somebody to step in and stop his vandalsim. Nomen Nescio 16:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

removed duplicate

He has now been warned by FeloniousMonk. I think further "harassment" actions will warrant test warnings, and a block when he reaches test3 or test4 and still continues the same behaviour. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me but how dare you take his side simply because I remove NPA tags he puts on my user page. This woe is me act also involves him removing my comments from Iraq War talk page. Did anyone look into that before making a judgement? Did anyone look into his vandalism of WP:WOT? I highly doubt it, perhaps the admins here should research all points before making decissions based on his ability to put tags on my userpage as harrassment. This user also calls me a zealot and I get accused of having a grudge? Disgusting. Did either of you even look up his talk page and see people attempting to discuss the issue with him? He constantly ignores you and just reverts and I am harrassing, he violated NPA by callnig me a zealot, did he recieve a warning? --zero faults 16:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore his comment "Some people never grow up" on this very page is a violation of NPA. Yet noone wants to point that out I see. --zero faults 17:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not taking anyone's side, but if I were to, I can do without these indignant "how dare you" comments. I'm just responding to what FeloniousMonk said. Well, I suppose if you want to get technical, I am taking FeloniousMonk's side, because I trust his judgement, and he has looked into this case. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This isnt about Felonius, its about Nomen, and he insulted me right on this page, yet no warnnig is being issued to him for 2 violations of NPA. --zero faults 17:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If he is making personal attacks, and someone else agrees, then someone will warn him too. If others don't judge that he is making personal attacks, then he won't. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

He called me zealot, he just said "some users dont grow up". If I said this to you, would you not see it as a personal attack? If you are an admin then you can issue a warning, also another user has already complained about the zealot comment on Felonius's page. I do not see how I can have a grudge against someone, if they are the ones insulting me. --zero faults 17:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I am going to cease participation in this discussion as it seems its obvious that nothing is going to get done about his personal attacks, and furthermore I am sure if I did as I am allowed, and placed a NPA tag on his page for them. I will be seen as harrassing him. I am tempted to say lots but, WP:POINT prevents me.--zero faults 17:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Justwant to mention that the "RFC" nomen is insisting about appears to be this:

Which is in violation of posting a RFC as its stating a position, its even villifying the other side. --zero faults 17:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Since you admit it is a RFC and nobody has corrected what you perceive as incorrectly desribing the subject, I think we can conclude this debate. Nomen Nescio 18:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you even listening to each other? This supposed poll on the "war on terror" at Talk:Iraq War contains over 11,000 words posted in less than 36 hours, more than 90% by Nescio and Zer0faults. Stephen King writes less than that daily. You are both obviously immovable in your opinions, and no one else is willing to step into your fever swamp to offer an outside view because the atmosphere is so acrimonious. Tagging a person's talk page with personal attack warnings when he is an obvious established user is lazy and rude, and in the context of an ongoing content debate, obnoxious and thoroughly unhelpful. But you might as well argue about each other's behavior, because you're obviously not going to change each other's mind on the issue. Just don't come running to ANI any more like a coupe of eight year olds (he touched me! she touched me first! he's making faces at me!).

This is only the latest in a series of political articles you two have been fighting over, and the fifth or tenth time one of you has come running to ANI. I'm surprised no one has yet thought of filing an RFAR against both of you to get you both banned from political articles altogether. (Maybe Arbcom will see that one of you is clearly "right" -- but I doubt it.) Misplaced Pages is not a blog or a usenet newsgroup. Stop editing political articles, even if it means swallowing your pride and letting the other one "win." Find some way of dealing with each other before a solution gets imposed on you that you may like even less. Thatcher131 18:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• I was very strongly suggesting these guys file an RFC on the issues, but they shrugged that suggestion off, preferring instead to just yell at each other across various talk pages and noticeboards. If they won't take the suggestions to elevate this to RFC or RFAR, someone is going to have to do it for them, because the status quo is clearly unproductive, and the only people getting anything out of it are these two, who seem to enjoy arguing immensely. --Cyde↔Weys 18:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Both of you are absolutely right. That is why I filed the RFC. However, what do you suppose we do when that RFC gets deleted, and when I restore it somebody starts rewriting the criteria? I was only trying to get the suggested RFC from being deleted. But I will take your advise and remove myself from the article since clearly even a RFC is either not allowed or manipulated by some. Nomen Nescio 18:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Stop it already with the woe is me. I am not responding to you anymore after this. Participate wherever you want so you can stop bemoaning persecution. I will not respond to your comments or anything you do anymore, and I hope you cand ot he same for me. --zero faults 18:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

  • yself and another user have been attempting to get Nomen to talk to us about reaching a middleground, much like we did with Kizzle and was able to satisfy what they felt was wrong with the War on Terror title, they have since voted in favor of it, with a condition attached that it be put in quotation marks. However Nomen does not respond to other users attempting to work a middleground or even asking what would convince him otherwise. This is evident by his own talk page, and the fact that he just cahnged Mrdthree's vote on the poll he is creating. I not dealing with this user anymore, as he runs to AN/I when noone wants to participate in his poll. Especially when that poll calls for anyone who agree's that Iraq is part of the WOT to also state they do so regardless of evidence and are being unobjectionable. Anyone else see a POV problem with a person having to agree on the basis they do it withuot having any facts support them? I am sure he will see the lack of votes in that category as a win on his side however. As I said I am done, because his tactics to attempt to push his POV is leading to me getting in trouble while he says things in this very section about "Some people never grow up" and calls me a zealot without punishment. I as of this moment will no longer address this user. The end. --zero faults 18:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Shaw and Crompton

vandalism - assistance required. I have just try to clean up this overlong article by removing DUPLICATED information (info that is included in the infobox) and some irrelvant trivia. I have also reorganized by the info box by breaking it down into admin and geography. I believe all these are reasonable edits and within Wiki guidelines but have all bene reverted by what can only be described as a possessive editor. I wholeheartedly believe my edits improve the article and would welcome intervention. I have been accused of being a "sock puppet" by a person who seemingly reverts every single edit not made by him user:Jhamez84. Assitance would be appreciated. Thankyou. Filmfan1971 16:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please note that this is a revenge attack. This user is a (5th) sock puppet (in so many days) of banned user User:Argol136. Please check the Shaw and Crompton edit history and my contributions.

Additionally, I will be presenting this IP address for an investigation for sock puppetry, and the Shaw and Crompton article is currently semi-protected because of this users constant targetting of the article. If an admin would indeed like to message me about this, please feel free. Jhamez84 18:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Ben Burch

crockspot (talk · contribs) has been using an off-site forum to organize a disruption of wikipedia regarding user:Ben Burch and the articles about him. They seem to hate him. Here's the link to the forum post. I'm not exactly sure what the point is but apparently crockspot wants to keep an article on Ben Burch and another user is going to oppose him so they can "Make it look realistic." Very strange.

Could someone leave a message on Crock's page warning him of this kind of behavior? ---J.S (t|c) 16:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Help in massive deletion needed

Imthehappywanderer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) created quite a few circular categories. I started deleting them and then noticed there were more than THOUSAND created during 6 hours! Looks like he was running a bot. I blocked him for a while.

Now I need help in undoing his work. If someone of admins has some one-click tools or some spare time, please help. `'mikka (t) 15:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Suprised you haven't indef blocked them..--Andeh 15:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

He had useful edits before. Could have been a honest mistake. If he will not answer in 24h, indefinite it will go. `'mikka (t) 16:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand here. How did he just create them, but there are already articles in these categories? Am I cleared to delete the ones where he is the only contributor, even tho

Yes, it is a problem. Some editors already noticed some of his creations and properly recategoized them. So we cannot just run an anti-bot. Lots of manual work.

These were redlinked categories. YOu don't need a category to exist to put an article into it. You may just type in an article ] and you got it. `'mikka (t) 16:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think this should be moved to another part of WP:AIV as the vandal has been blocked. And it's just a clean up job needed.--Andeh 16:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Try adding {{subst:js|User:AndyZ/sandbox.js}} one-click delete category js script. AndyZ 16:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I deleted my 350+ categories. Who is next?pschemp | talk 04:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

They are all gone now. How about in the future we keep an eye on this type of thing? pschemp | talk 05:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Good work. I looked at the contribs earlier, looked at a few categories, thought about deleting them, but wasn't quite sure from what I saw, and from reading here, what exactly needed doing, so I didn't do anything. Glad you and others were able to suss out what was needful. What are the symptoms to watch for going forward, do you think? ++Lar: t/c 05:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Reversion judgement

I often run into a problem when reverting vandalism and blanking. I see things like this, where an anon removes controversial, yet unsourced information. What should I do? Was it right of them to remove this unsourced and possibly biased info, or should I revert it and start a consensus on the talkpage?--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 17:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say it's a case-by-case thing... in this case, the info is extremely derogatory towards left-handers, so I support it being deleted until it can be properly sourced. - Merzbow 17:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, thank you.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Wiki-star

Editor has had a long history of revert warring, conflicts and attacks on other users, mostly centered around the edit summaries and talk pages of Majin Buu and re-direct Buu. Seems to be campaigning to be banned now, with baiting and calling to be suspended from the site (though this is not the first time he's done so). Voice of Treason 18:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AMajin_Buu&diff=59940184&oldid=59939830
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Majin_Buu&diff=prev&oldid=59940646
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AMajin_Buu&diff=60007491&oldid=60003026
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AMajin_Buu&diff=60018837&oldid=60016720

Wiki-star seems to have claimed ownership of the article as he reverts to his previous versions ignoring the comments left by other users and the consensus already formed, claiming that he cares "greatly about this article, and will be damned if i let another voilator ruin such a wonderful article". Voice of Treason, Isopropyl, Daishokaioshin, Onikage725, Zarbon, Darkwarriorblake, Papacha, Orion Minor, and I have all once again made attempts to discuss this issue with him but to no avail.-3bulletproof16 19:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I have added the page to my watchlist and I will monitor it for his changes. --mboverload@ 21:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Wiki-star has been larger than life, in a bad way, since his first edits on Misplaced Pages--take a look at his early edits to the help desk, where he made pretentious speeches about how much he was going to bring to Misplaced Pages and bridled at any suggestion he might moderate his, um, idiosyncratic posting style. Nothing wrong with confidence, but he crossed the line into brashness and all his edits since then have been of a pattern--he has an idea and our job is to help him implement it. He is impervious to suggestions on any subject and seems to never give up, as far as I can see. A frustrating user whose style makes the Misplaced Pages experience worse for anyone who encounters him. Thank god he's fixated on Buu, but too bad for the folks there who have had to deal with him. · rodii · 21:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

His posting style as a new editor isn't that weird. It seems that he was writing as if he was under the impression that wikipedia was a small, workaholic community that expected him to get a move on. Many new users act that way. I gather that you are under the impression that he thought he could bug everyone about his problems and be proud about it, but in reality most people are scared about being expelled from the community and they make these promises so as not to lose others' hopes in them. It isn't fair to bite a latebloomer who needs help getting started. If this user has trouble navigating Misplaced Pages, perhaps you should help him instead of trying to ignore him.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Noone has attacked him for being new. Heck, I'm relatively new myself. People who have tried to offer him help are ignored or insulted. When people tried to help him with his format on talk pages, he responded that he could do whatever he wants. When people engage him in discussion about proposed edits he has stated that he "gives everyone two chances" to basically see his point of view. Failure to comply with his issues earns you his disrespect and he either ignores or berates you. When everyone disagrees with him, he begins his "endless reverting" as he puts it while declaring that the only way to stop him is to ban him. This isn't simple newcomer ignorance. This is flat out arrogance, and quite possibly some form of psychosis. Onikage725 13:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

His posting style as a new editor was extremely assertive, including edit warring, asking for help but rejecting the answers, talk page blanking () and this touchy exchange, all in his first couple weeks on the site. But OK, newbies often take a while to settle in and adapt to a community-based style; however, Wiki-Star never did, he just grew more aggressive. I agree with Onikage725 100%. · rodii · 15:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a prime example in his talk page. Someone politely advises him that it's a good practice to always sign with four tildes, and he says "Well i hate to break it to you sweet heart but thats just life." He further adds "I'm not trying to seek any kind of recognition. I'm here to be the best wikipedian i can be. And i'm doing so in my original way. If thats a problem, then i guess i don't belong here!" Onikage725 18:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Then I apologize. I obviously didn't know enough about him to make an accurate judgement.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have had enough history with Wiki-Star to know that he's trouble. He takes command of the articles and adds an enormous amount of images (approximately 50) to each page. I previously cleaned up the Buu, Piccolo, Gotenks, Vegito, and Vegeta pages on a continuous basis, only to see him come back and revert, and promise to continue doing it with no other basis or consensus in mind except for the fact that he likes the characters. Considering the fact that even more important characters aren't even getting 7 or 8 pictures, it's only obvious that neither of the mentioned deserve 40 odd images on the page to illustrate their history. I am going to agree with everyone else who is on the lookout to find a way of stopping this Wiki-Star fellow. - Zarbon

Massive undo of a vicious bot: hands needed

Please see Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#Help_in_massive_deletion_needed. `'mikka (t) 19:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• or, you know, Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Help_in_massive_deletion_needed.--64.12.116.65 19:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Pnatt again, abusing his talk page for soapboxing

Pnatt is currently blocked until mid-July. His talk page was protected (by me) for repeated abuse of {{unblock}}, and was recently unprotected (not by me) after promises to stop. See . He's now chosen to use his talk page to start a "USA Sucks Petition". Quote: "I've made a petition where people can express their resentment towards the United States of America. America sucks because:" - and an expanding list follows, containing various gems, including "They can't even spell "colour" correctly" - Pnatt's blocks relate to edit warring over regional spelling variations, and some editors have claimed that the current block is over the top and that this time (that's the seventh time, counting fans) he'll stop for real if someone will only unblock him. The above gives me reason for doubt.

Obviously, that needs wiping from the page, and maybe this sub-Fark.com bullshit exhausts the last vestige of community patience that remains. But some other rouge admin can do this, not so much because I'm too involved, but because I'm tired of being the evil inquisitor unjustly burning the innocent martyr to the cause of the letter 'U' (see above link) and it's someone else's turn. --Sam Blanning 19:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed it and pointed him to WP:NOT --pgk 19:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well he removed my comments and restored an updated version of his list, so I've removed and protected his talk page again. --pgk 20:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Template:Perpetual motion machine and Cox's timepiece

These two pages are currently in a revert war. It appears that some user from Kansas City keeps reverting a few times and then changing to another IP address. I would guess that this is probably User:Perpetual motion machine, who has been insistent upon saying that Cox's timepiece is a real perpetual motion machine that invalidates the second law of thermodynamics and most of modern physics. He has also started a revert war on Template:Perpetual motion machine, where he keeps replacing the very well known "Perpetual motion machine" with "Free energy device", claiming that Perpetual motion machine is somehow biased. Do I need to do a RFCU about this, or is this straightforward enough? Could someone look into doing something to stop this? --Philosophus 19:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just blocked 204. for 3RR which was a bit naughty of me William M. Connolley 20:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to point out that the current version does not make it clear that due to the fact that the machine is still powered by a limited although ambient energy source (rather similar to anything powered by solar panels) it can't really be called a perpetual motion machine since it could not exist for eternity.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 05:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Additional note - if a sock-check is done to determine if User:Perpetual motion machine is the string of edit-warring anons, it's probably a good idea to try to figure out what PMM's main account is, add add strongly-likely candidates to the sock check request. The PMM account appeared out of nowhere on June 1st and started creating templates and exhibiting other strong knowledge of the workings of Misplaced Pages, so it's probably a special-purpose account of a more established user. --Christopher Thomas 06:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Probable additional sock-puppet: USPatent (talk • contribs), who started editing on June 9th, and seems to have anomalous interest in template:perpetual motion machine. --Christopher Thomas 20:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:217.155.48.230 - repeated vandalism, no other contributions made

The article on Nigel Havers has been repeatedly vandalised by user 217.155.48.230. I keep cutting the childish rubbish out, but it keeps coming back. That user has not made any other contribution to wikipedia, so I think that person should be considered for banning from editing if this is possible. DrHydeous 20:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The IP address hadn't received any warning. I've left {{test}} on their userpage. If they persist, please use WP:AIV to report them. Jkelly 20:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Closing of a move request poll - request for review

I closed a move request in what I thought was a very difficult case at Talk:Kazimierz III the Great. The most important issue, in my opinion, was that a particular user had called attention to the poll on the talk pages of many users. Not counting users thus solicited (but counting every other registered user) the poll had 8 supports to 8 opposes. But the editors solicited to come to the page broke 13-1 in favor of the opinion of the person doing the soliciting. I interpreted this as a sign that the user had only contacted people he thought likely to agree with him. I felt this tainted the poll and I took it heavily into account when interpreting the results. I closed the poll as "no consensus". User:Jtdirl contested this as "outrageous", overrode my close and performed the move. I'm submitting the question for broader review. Haukur 21:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought that your methods of counting votes (double counting those of people who have edited the page) was totally and completely not fair. Why should their opinions be held in higher value? My first attempt at improving the article was my vote. I think that counts just as much as any edit made to the article. To me, this said it all:

Obviously this all depends on completely arbitrary factors and if I had set any one of them differently in a direction more favorable to pro-movers the result would have gone their way - Haukur

How is your opinion fair game to sway the outcome of the vote? Charles 21:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The standard I set is certainly arbitrary but I have no hidden agenda nor even an opinion on where the page should reside. I just figured that the people who have actually edited the article in the past are more likely to know what they're talking about than those fresh in to vote on a move request. Haukur 21:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You should consider the Polish-bias when you talk about those who have edited it in the past (and knowing what they talk about). Obviously Polish individuals will be involved in Polish issues, but there is a lot of bias. I speak English and use the appropriate English forms on English Misplaced Pages. Why couldn't you just stick to standard methods of counting votes, rather than inventing an arbitrary method? Charles 21:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there a standard method? What's the standard method for countering "Polish-bias", like you want me to do? :) What's the standard method for countering selective advertising? I just tried to be fair and take everything into account. Maybe I did give too much weight to some issues or too little to others - thanks for providing feedback. Haukur 21:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think Haukurth made a good faith effort here, but I would say that in general, the "Misplaced Pages way" is to gather opinions from outside of an article's editing group, to gain fresh points of view in a complex situation. That is, after all, what the whole RFC process is about, is it not? --Elonka 21:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I worded it correctly. I didn't mean you should change how the votes of Polish editors are considered, what I meant is that it should be realized how weighty their votes would be, since the Polish editors on English WP are more likely to be interested in Polish subjects. That gives an unfair edge to the opposing side. I don't think any distinction should be made between votes, except those by anon or very new users. But that discussion should be saved for the whole move policy. Charles 21:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the people who were contacted were for the most part the people who had over the last three years done the work of pulling the pages on royalty, which were a notorious dumping ground for POV opinions and wacky titles, into a cohesive structure based on naming conventions. They were approached by that user not because they would "agree with him" (anyone who looks at the people contacted knows that they regularly vote different ways on issues. John Kenney and I, for example, are frequently on opposite sides in debates) but because they were people involved in doing the specialist work on the area of the naming conventions and so presumably the user believed that their contributions, for or against, in a topic many of them were experts on, would be useful. The consensus was 71% to move, 29% against. Haukur's mispresentation of the poll is hilarious. It suggests that he approached the page without knowing what was going on, jumped to (the wrong) conclusions and did his maths wrong. I moved the page as per the overwhelming consensus to move it. (Two of the votes of the 29% who opposed were suspected, BTW, of being sockpuppets of another 'oppose' voter.) FearÉIREANN\ 21:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, suspected by me as I noted in my close where I discounted their votes completely. In any case I was sort of hoping to have some input from administrators not previously involved, so far I've only had comments for people who voted to move this particular page. I still maintain that the selective soliciting of votes tainted the poll. And I don't see anything "unfair" about Polish contributors working and voting on Polish subjects. Haukur 21:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You failed to understand me. The only real unfair issue with Polish editors is when they are given extra clout (i.e. by you). Charles

I didn't give anyone brownie points for being Polish, I gave out brownie points for editing the article. That there is a correlation between being Polish and editing an article on a Polish king is not surprising, of course, but it doesn't indicate bias. Incidentally we're only talking about four editors here and one of them, Polish to the bone, happened to agree with you. Haukur 22:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

One of them obviously realised that this is English Misplaced Pages then! It isn't up to you to give out brownie points. Clout in requested moves isn't something you can just give out. Charles 22:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You seem to have very strong opinions on this but please understand that people can disagree with you in good faith and still realize that this is the English Misplaced Pages. Haukur 22:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

So what Haukur is saying is that experts can't contribute to a vote if they haven't actually edited a page (even if they have edited hundreds of similar pages, just not that one), and that they have less right to participate than those who did edits, even where where those edits were contrary to naming conventions and the manual of style. I don't doubt that Haukur was well motivated in his actions, but he completely got it wrong. He judged that outside experts should be excluded, and a small number of editors who tried to give preference to their language usage over Misplaced Pages's in naming, should get priority. And experts who worked on the naming conventions and the manual of style cannot be told there is an issue to do with the application of the naming conventions and manual of style being discussed, even though those experts have years of edit histories of being impartial and of never voting en bloc for anything. Bizarre. FearÉIREANN\ 21:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, as anyone can see. Look, I was working on the backlog on WP:RM and I came to this page. I haven't been involved in this apparently all-important life-or-death issue of the names of Polish monarchs before and I think I'm as neutral a closing admin as they come. I did my best to close the vote in a fair way. You then immediately overrode my decision and moved the page anyway, even though you had voted in the poll yourself. Now the people who agree with you are "experts" and the people who had previously worked on the article sneakily want to "give preference to their language usage over Misplaced Pages's". Could you try to see this in less stark terms? Haukur 22:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Less stark? Why do we need a prismatic rainbow of arbitrary numbers and niceties, that you admit would have swayed either way, in lieu of the standard? Obviously, there is a preference for the Polish form of the name among Polish editors. But they were fairly outvoted. Charles 22:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is stark. The people approached are the people involved in drafting the relevant manual of style and the relevant naming conventions for up to four years. I have done over 2000 edits on royalty related topics on Misplaced Pages. John Kenney probably as many. Charles has spent months since he joined working on the topic. So have others. The people approached were approached (BTW by someone few of us had even heard of) simply because, as the guys who had written thousands of articles on related topics, we might be able to offer a non-Polish insight into how the naming conventions and Manual of style work, and what, going by their guidelines, should have been the correct format for the name of the page. Many of the Polish contributors are new to Misplaced Pages and don't understand the MoS and NC and how both are used in shaping naming and content, and thought that WP must use a form of names used by Polish people. Misplaced Pages policy is on this Misplaced Pages to use the form used by English speaker (that does not mean English, if English speakers also use native language versions). The experts asked to contribute are all independent-minded and often disagree. Inviting their contributions did not in any way mean that their votes on either side of the argument could be taken for granted. On some Polish pages, all agreed. On many others, we all agreed. If anyone is looking for guaranteed block votes then they are wasting their time coming to me, to John Kenney, to Charles, to Deb or to others. We each make our own decisions on each case. We each made our own decision there.

BTW I moved it as per the consensus and did so explicitly, only because a wrong interpretation had been made. I would have done exactly the same if I had voted the other way. Once I vote the issue is closed with me. The only issue I care about is that the decision, whatever decision, is implemented, and I have on the past implemented decisions I disagreed about when a vote was clearcut and a week after the end of the vote no other admin had gotten round to doing the move. FearÉIREANN\ 22:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Again, what is the standard method for closing a WP:RM vote? Haukur 22:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

My own concern about the Polish issue, is that there's obviously an organized voting block via the Polish Noticeboard. I have noticed that as a matter of course, when a Polish-related issue comes up, one of their number spots the issue, posts about it on the noticeboard , and then there is usually a rapid influx of Polish-speakers to a particular poll, usually (though not always) voting as a block, with an emphasis on changing article titles from English spelling to Polish spelling. Which is fine, as long as other non-Polish speakers are also allowed to advertise a poll as a balance. Yet in this particular case, when an opposing editor, Marrtel, advertised the vote to other interested editors, it seems to have been regarded as a kind of vote-stacking.

As long as both "voting block" techniques are treated fairly, I have no problem with it, but when one voting block is considered okay, and the other side is regarded as inappropriate, it does give the appearance of a double-standard creeping in, as it clearly gives an advantage to whichever side is allowed to trigger a group of voters sympathetic to their cause. --Elonka 22:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Noticeboards may in some cases be problematic but I don't see any obvious problem in this case. It's a noticeboard on Poland-related issues which anyone interested in those issues, be she Polish or not, can watch. Asking editors interested in Polish issues to vote on a Polish issue should usually be okay. Selectively soliciting votes from individual editors may be problematic and I think it was in this case. Haukur 22:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There was no selective soliciting votes from Martel. There was however, clear evidence on this and numerous other pages of block voting by Polish users to ignore the manual of style and naming conventions and turn references used internationally to Polish language variants used nowhere but Poland. It has been happening all over Polish articles, with topics that they never edited before suddenly being besieged by Polish editors, and rules everyone else follows being swept aside by their block voting. It is hard to read your contribution above and not see a bias in it. FearÉIREANN\ 22:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Your theory of "experts being contacted" just doesn't hold up. User:Marrtel obviously just contacted editors he thought would agree with him and 13 to 1 they did. User:Orionus is the best example, his third edit to Misplaced Pages was to vote in a way Marrtel approved of on one Polish monarch. Then Marrtel solicited him to vote on three more, which he did. User:Orionus was a newbie with a day's old account, not an expert with thousands of relevant edits.

The English Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia for all English speakers, not just native speakers of English. Polish readers and editors are as welcome as any. If there are articles which have a large number of Polish editors then they probably also have a large number of Polish readers so it's good that Polish preferences are well represented there. One of the things I personally like best about Misplaced Pages is that often I get to read articles on local issues written by the locals themselves, rather than filtered and dumbed down through the international media. Haukur 22:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

WP's rules are clear. Articles on English WP use language and naming that reflect usage by English language speakers. They call the Irish prime minister Taoiseach because that word, though Gaelic, is used by English speakers as the office's title. But they don't call the Irish president Uachtarán because that word is only used by Gaelic speakers. That is the same with all WP articles. That a cabal of Polish users are trying to do is force exclusively Polish usage, not used by English users, onto Polish articles. That is not allowed under WP rules. You should be concerned about the highjacking of articles by a linguistic cabal, rather than about the fact that other users vote to uphold Misplaced Pages rules by voting to put the name of a Polish king at the name that he belongs under according to the manual of style and wikipedia naming conventions. FearÉIREANN\ 22:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

1. Voting is evil.
2. Misplaced Pages is not a democracy.
3. No vote is going to get the manual of style changed in a particular language's instance. The Manual of Style is clear in that the English versions of names will be used, no matter what a vocal minority of Polish speakers desires. 02:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Few notes. One - I am an involved party and have voted in that RM, and I am a Polish editor. Two - I feel that a user who is involved in the vote should not 'override' the vote analysis by a clearly neutral RM specialist. Three: I find the accusations of 'Polish cabal' highly offensive, and I hope some neutral editors will reprimand those using such arguments and remind them of WP:CIVIL and related policies. Fourth: while some people speak about the 'evil Polish cabal', the same people feel that they have the right to move the articles not only if the consensus is disputed (like here) but even the RM vote is closed as 'no consensus' (evidence: RM closed with 'no consensus', article moved). I certainly think that the community should review this case and warn certain people about their behaviour.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 08:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The more people talk about "voting" the worse things will get. Matters of fact cannot be decided by votes. Matters of following style guides do not get decided by votes. NOTHING at wikipedia gets decided by a vote. Misplaced Pages works by building consensus through discussion. Obviously that has failed here. I know absolutely nothing about naming things in Polish, but if we have a style guide, we should follow it. If the style guide is bad, we should fix it. What we definitely should NOT do is decide with a vote to ignore the style guide. It is the responsibility of Admins to encourage discussion and help others reach consensus. If it is not appropriate to decide an issue by using consensus, it is the responsibility of the Admin to explain why, and direct those that disagree to the correct forum for their concerns and explain the appropriate process. -- Samuel Wantman 09:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A few minor points. To accuse somebody of biased editing because of nationality is very dangerous. I could use the same accusation in regards Russian, German, French, English voters of being unfriendly to Polish articles because of historic reasons, which would be damaging to Misplaced Pages and quite absurd since nationality doesn't determine views or opinions. Second as to claim that My own concern about the Polish issue, is that there's obviously an organized voting block via the Polish Noticeboard. Well it is a normal thing for a board to exist that focuses on topics of interest common to certain editors.For example there is similar Russian related noticeboard where frequent calls for attention to certain articles are made, and similiaryd then there is usually a rapid influx of Russian-speakers. Are such procedures against Wiki rules ? --Molobo 13:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

I don't like seeing unsubstantiated allegations of sockpuppetry flying around; they generate ill-will and can lead to witch-hunts. Therefore, I've investigated the claims that there was socking going on during the discussion. The following accounts are controlled by the same user:

• Logologist (talk · contribs)
• KonradWallenrod (talk · contribs)
• Mattergy (talk · contribs)
• Anatopism (talk · contribs)

Needless to say, that means roughly half the users opposed to the move were one user with socks. Mackensen (talk) 14:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I somehow missed KonradWallenrod but looking at it now I see it's just as obvious a case as the rest. I was going to ask for checkuser confirmation if the user denied the allegation but I felt that it was unnecessarily agressive to do it preemptively. But I suppose it's good that it's over and done with - thanks for taking the time. Haukur 14:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Fine, but what are the consequences for the Sock-puppeteer? None, it seems, apart that his socks are blocked?--Matthead 15:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

At the moment, a stiff warning not to do it again. A block at this time would be punitive, and we don't do that. Mackensen (talk) 15:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I second that. Haukur 15:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I would be very much suprised if Logologist would happen to be a 'sockmaster'. The other three users are relatively new and I have had almost no interaction with the latter two, but I consider Logologist a good and respectable user. Therefore I would like to ask for 'checkuser' to be preformed - I expect this should clear his name, and if not, we will have some real evidence, not just idle speculations.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A checkuser has been performed. This was the result. Mackensen (talk) 16:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Haukur and Mackensen, I would like to offer my heartfelt appreciation for this data. The related events over the last several months have been genuinely perplexing for me, but now that it's revealed that there was a quadruple sockpuppet involved, things make much more sense. It's my hope that we'll be able to use this data to finally untangle many of the resulting messes that occurred, and start the process of rebuilding trust among all the Misplaced Pages editors involved, now that it's clear who's "real", and who was just a sockpuppet. Thank you. --Elonka 18:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the checkuser. It is a sad day to see that such users scoop so law. I always thought of Logologist as a good and neutral contributor, it's a shame to see how mistaken I was. Given that I fully support revision of all past RMs and other votings and striking the votes of all sockpuppets, I am sure Elonka will be more then happy to indicate where we need to revise the votes. I also hope that the actions of one rogue user will not be overgeneralized to a largec community, we have had enough uncivility with the entire Polish cabal accusations recently (on a sidenote, please note that neither logologist nor his sockpuppets were significantly active in the Polish noticeboard).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I must say I'm shocked. //Halibutt 21:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I added the info and the link to this thread on the votes where KonradWallenrod, Mattergy, and Anatopism participated. Which is pretty much most of their talk page comments -- Chris 73 | Talk 23:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Indefinite block of User:EngineerEd

I have indefinitely blocked the user as a possible malicious vandal, who may have deliberately inserted false information into Collapse of the World Trade Center. Refer to User talk:EngineerEd. Tom Harrison 01:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I concur that the evidence supports that EngineerEd (talk · contribs) was a strawman of TruthSeeker1234 (talk · contribs), who is has also used Truth Seeker2 (talk · contribs) and Truthseeker2 (talk · contribs) accounts it appears.--MONGO 03:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Threats?

Someone should probably look at Misplaced Pages:Help_desk#Death_threats_are_fun.21.

This diff's edit summary (I'm going to stab you and I know what you look like because of a picture on your user page...) is above and beyond WP:NPA. I've blocked User:I.M._Rich indefinitely for this diff, continued threats: and ongoing trolling on Misplaced Pages:Help_desk#Death_threats_are_fun.21. Further edit summaries that are inflammatory: . No warnings were given prior to the indef block. I submit it here for review -- Samir धर्म 02:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure he earned an indef, but some time off certainly is deserved... RadioKirk (u|t|c) 03:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I dont think a perma-ban is the solution either. I just want to know what has gotten into him? Pacific Coast Highway 03:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It now seems that he wants to work something out. Pacific Coast Highway 03:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

We have a temporary solution. I think. Is there some way to reduce/redact the ban? Pacific Coast Highway 03:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Just institute a shorter block. For something like that, a day or two might be enough to send the message the first time. After all, when the creature snapped, he was going to run amock until he'd punched himself out, as they say on The Simpsons. I'm not sure how valuable the editor's going to be, but let's hope for the best. Geogre 03:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It's worth noting that he was just coming back from a 24-hour block, and it didn't seem to have the desired calming effect. His first edit was to insult and implicitly threaten Pacific COast Highway (), and he followed up with an attack on me (I placed the first 24-hour block): .

I gather that the guy has some good contributions behind him, and PCH seems to be taking this mostly in stride. Nevertheless, his behaviour is quite disruptive. Until he can work out how to control himself or manages to sort out whatever personal problems he's having, he's going to find himself blocked. I'm trimming the block down to 48 hours since he's expressed remorse and an interest in contributing positively again: . He'll find himself back on involuntary wikibreak if he keeps acting out like this, however. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 05:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Seems fair enough. Thanks for addressing -- Samir धर्म 06:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I got in on this whole thing a little late, but I'd just like to stick myself in in favor of I.M. Rich. I don't think his death threats are plausable, and he certainly has a large quantity of valuable contributions to WP:NYCS. An indefinite block would be entirely unreasonable and a certain detriment to the quality of NYC related articles. Coincidentally, when I first confronted him about the threats (I think I was the first), he responded reasonably (see the top of his talk page). --Alphachimp 06:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't find his comments amusing in the least, and his actions on his talk page are far from reasonable. Saying you will stab someone (and that it is feasible as you know what he looks like) is a serious matter. Not a joking matter at all, even if you don't think he's serious -- Samir धर्म 09:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Scribe85

User:Scribe85 has been blanking pages , removing content , adding pointless lines . And has been removing warnings from his/her talk page . Many of these have been marked as being "minor" edits as well. On the other hand, there have been a lot of useful edits. I can't be bothered deal with it anymore. Up to you to decide what to do. --Midnighttonight 02:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this disruption?

Even after his arbitration case closed, PoolGuy has continued to push for the unblock/unprotection of his sock GoldToeMarionette, even requesting this on WP:RFP multiple times this week, after multiple rejections. Isn't that disruption? 03:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.117.4.132 (talk • contribs) .

Does this count as a legal threat or just a threat?

In an extension of drama over questionable edits to physics articles by another user, Tim Shuba (talk • contribs) appears to be threatening to indirectly reveal personal information, and appears to threaten a libel suit against another user. I'm not well-versed enough in the finer points of Misplaced Pages policy to tell whether this violates WP:NPA and WP:NLT or not.

Threat issued: diff

Threatened addition is the last paragraph of the following: link

--Christopher Thomas 05:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Accusing other users of crimes such as libel, and making insinuations about their personal information, is certainly a threat. It combines elements of a legal threat and a threat to disclose personal information or to harass. We can't afford to tolerate this kind of screwing around; it's already lost us too many good editors.

For the safety of Misplaced Pages editors, we need to establish a consensus that posting other users' personal information is always and forever equivalent to throwing your Misplaced Pages access away. Harassing other users by threatening to do so is simply a milder form of the same. --FOo 07:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Making such strict rules is a rather bad idea in my opinion. Editors can unintentionally post or disclose personal information of others who don't want it disclosed. In many cases, it is not necessarily clear as to how much personal information someone wants on the encyclopedia. Some users have enough personal information on their user pages for anyone to find out exactly where they are in real life, others, like me, would be highly concerned if even my first name or IP address were posted. It is difficult for users to know what the wishes of other users are, and slips can certainly happen, especially with names. Threatening to do so is quite often done by people who should not be tolerated, but is also occasionally done by people who don't understand that it isn't acceptable. --Philosophus 07:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, there should be a zero tolerance policy on the posting of personal information by other parties. Certainly one event should not lead to a permanent ban, but one 'accident' should have sufficient consequences to make it absolutely clear that a second 'accident' will not be tolerated and will have lasting consequences for the editor. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 10:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't take two "accidents" to drive a valuable editor away. It takes one deliberate act of harassment ... which may be falsely portrayed in retrospect as an "accident".

I don't like the use of the expression "zero tolerance" for this idea. That term is associated with fascist elements in my country. What I'm interested in here is a commitment to protect editors from harassment of a particularly vicious type: harassment by those who have developed an expertise in tracking down ordinary people to harass them and "expose" them. Harassment by those who use usernames, fields of interest, and passing comments to track down a person's location, employer, family, and other associates ... and then create personal, economic, and social crises for them. --FOo 06:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

• Sure, slips can be made, but if you consciously use it as a threat, it's no longer a mistake. Of course, you're free to use material shared on userpages, but if any piece of information requires you to search, you should leave it buried. - Mgm| 11:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Talk:White (people)

A user brought this page to my attention, but I'm way out of my depth in knowing how to handle what appears to be a bit of a POV war/revert war going on in the talk, and in the article itself. Take a look at the recent history: and in particular this series of diffs (about 20 edits or so) Frankly, call me chicken, as I'm not sure I'd want to wade into this article, but I did want to post about it here (or point me elsewhere) so it's not overlooked. ++Lar: t/c 05:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Assistance Needed

I'm not really sure where to put this (so apologies if i'm posting in the wrong place). But i'm just alerting fellow wikipedians that whenever i try to search 'myspace,' it eventually leads me to the Homosexuality page as of today (June 23rd).

I do not have the sources (or idea) to know how to fix up this vandalism, so i'm asking for assistance. Thanks (: --Umbrellaparty 05:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I changed it to a redirect to MySpace. Am I missing something? I don't understand this edit . He doesn't seem to be a vandal. Antandrus (talk) 05:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmmm. I'm not relatively sure either. I just thought, if someone changed the redirect of the original page it would be considered as vandalism, wouldn't it? ie. Myspace > Homosexuality, equals Myspace is gay. Thanks for the help, by the way. --Umbrellaparty 06:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It looks like textbook vandalism to me. I've asked Fractions about it. --Sam Blanning 08:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Watercool

Is persisting with a fork at Maria Vladimirovna of Russia. Watercool created that fork by cut-and-paste today, being unhappy with a move done by Cfvh. I have warned Watercool, but Watercool reverted yet, returning the fork. Seems to me that the user is not exactly new (that's my impression, not a verified fact), but the account is new. Anyway, Watercool displays certain persistent, obstinate character, in other articles too. Seems to me Watercool is pushing some POV in several places. Isn't a block of some week that recommendable response to cool down obstinacy in an editor's missionary attitude? Anyway, I think admins should chack now and then what Watercool is doing. ObRoy 10:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

ObRoy, I believe you don't understand english. You asked me not to make any changes unless I participate in the debate in the talk page. I did - and EVERYBODY on the talk page disagrees with you and believes that the article should be known as Maria Vladimirnovna of Russia. Get over it. Watercool

I just warned Watercool about being civil, and he got himself blocked for 3RR on Sealand shortly after that. --InShaneee 22:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, the worst after a fire is the water damage. -- Omniplex 10:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Watercool, Misplaced Pages states that the name an individual uses for themself that is most commonly used should be used. That includes the title of grand duchess for Maria. Charles 22:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Here, it actually is not the question of the name of that article, but of Watercool's making and perpetuing a fork, a cut-and-paste. That alone should earn Watercool some time as blocked. However, Iobserve that other breachs have lead Watercool to be blocked. Afterwards, Watercool's account would need checking, is he continuing dispuptive behavior after these blocks. ObRoy 12:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

User:JzG "flys storms in" to enforce update user page policy

User:JzG made changes to my userpage, and´deleted much of its content for no good reason. When I reverted his edits, he responded by deleting the page and reinstalling his version and then protecting it from edits. --Rdos 10:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

After reviewing the user page history, I support User:JzG's actions. I've deleted the same content from Rdos's user talk page, and protected it. I've asked the user to indicate that he will cease posting deleted material on his user talk page for the purpose of soapboxing, at which point I will unprotect it. Nandesuka 11:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Fascism. I will *never* let ignorant admins judge what is appropriate for *my* user page. In that case I will delete it altogther instead. --Rdos 11:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

For the record, I asked nicely, then I asked firmly, then I removed the content, and only after all the above failed (the content was reposted almost immediately) did I take more drastic action. Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2006 June 21#Neanderthal_theory_of_autism is also relevant. Just zis Guy you know? 11:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

This situation is really a lesson of power abuse. First Nandesuka protects my *talk* page, and then User:JzG places more insulting conmments on it. It doesn't matter how you ask, the point is that this is a violation of the userpage policies. --Rdos 11:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

For values of insulting which may include pointing out, in pretty much so many words, that you are standing in a deep hole and still digging. Just zis Guy you know? 11:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

These are not the only insults by User:JzG. Take a look at the correspnodance on his talk page. --Rdos 11:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Nandesuka removes contents from my user talk page, and then protects it from edits. The policies for user talk pages clearly doesn't allow such actions. Besides, how could possibly anybody comment on the conflict (apart from admins), when they have no idea about the contents removed (no history) and cannot place comments on the talk page? --Rdos 11:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The violation of the userpage policies — which, by the way, cover your user talk page — was your posting inappropriate material on it. I suggest you take a deep breath, calm down, and move on. This material will not be posted on Misplaced Pages, and you are going to need to accept that. If you are unhappy with JzG's or my actions, I encourage you to open an RFC or, if that doesn't satisfy you, an arbitration case. However, continuing to heap abuse on other editors is likely to get you blocked for disruption. So instead of calling us fascists, I suggest you use more measured language, such as "I'm unhappy about your decision." Nandesuka 11:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleted articles are sometimes preserved in userspace because, with work, they may be able to go back into articlespace. However, if no amount of work can make them suitable, as is the case with Rdos' theory promoting a link between autism and subhumans, proven by multiple AfDs and the current DRV, then they have no place in userspace, per Misplaced Pages is not a free webhost. JzG and Nandesuka's actions were entirely correct. --Sam Blanning 13:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Fourthed. Proto///type 14:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sam Blanning, your assertion that the Neanderthal theory will never be appropriate for article space is only based on your personal feelings about it. Remember, it has only been up for AfC twice. The first time it was voted "keep" and the second time "delete". The reincarnations are random actions of independent users, and if anything, only shows that some people wants it to be here. Also, Neanderthals are not "subhuman". They were perfectly human and in some respects superior to us. If you really read the theory you would know that it doesn't view autistics or Neanderthals as subhuman or inferior. It views autistics and Neanderthals as basically quite different from modern humans, and thus inforces the view of many people in the autistic community. --Rdos 17:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

All of this just screams "original research". Do you have any citations from the literature to back up any of this? --Cyde↔Weys 17:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The theory contains lots of citations to published research. If just User Talk:JzG can for once refrain from alterning my comments the link should follow:. If you mean if my view of autism is "original research", I can assure you it is not. It is described , , and here on Autistic community and Autistic culture. --Rdos 17:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

First, it doesn't take admin tools to remove the content from the user page, so he didn't abuse any admin privileges at all. Second, there is precedent for removing deleted content that's merely being housed in userspace. Misplaced Pages is usually pretty lenient with what gets placed in userpages, but there are limits. Third, I heartily endorse this event or product. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Clear soapboxing. Inappropriate article on userpage. Not a single PMID citation . Provide just one and your argument stands; otherwise JzG was in the right to remove it. -- Samir धर्म 20:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The important thing is not how many citations to published research a paper contains, it's how many times it's cited in other papers (and being mentioned on bulletin boards doesn't count as a citation). The neanderthal stuff is so off the wall that even calling it "research" is stretching the meaning of the word. It's the sort of just-so story that cartoon sociobiologists are accused of inventing. --ajn (talk) 20:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• Just a comment here, if Rdos gives an unequivocal undertaking not to reinsert the content then I have no problem with any admin unlocking his User and Talk pages. Rdos' site is currently blacklisted after being removed from inappropriate articles and three separate Wikiprojects. This will only prevent linking, not adding www.rdos.net as plain text. I don't believe it is a reliable source for any current articles. Just zis Guy you know? 20:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I won't give any such undertaking, and I wish it to stay protected. Also, blocking my site is yet another assault (from your part, I'm sure?). At least you could have some civility to notify me of this, and how to oppose this action? --Rdos 20:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd do it, given that undertaking. --ajn (talk) 20:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have unprotected Rdos's user talk page, and indicated to him that if he posts the material again, I will block him for disruption. Nandesuka 20:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You were asked to provide the header that it was protected, and not to unloxck it! --Rdos 20:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• I support JZG's actions. He even asked nicely before doing it himself. Obviously there's a lot of leeway in what can go in user space, but that doesn't mean that anything goes. Misplaced Pages is not a place for original research, period. There are hundreds if not thousands of free web page providers out there, and I'm sure there's probably wiki's out there that do welcome original research. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 20:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly support Guy's actions, and suggest the "injured" parties post their personal stuff on a personal page. "My" user page is not "mine" at all. Neither is yours. This isn't MySpace, as has been stated repeatedly. KillerChihuahua 21:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• JZG is obviously a prick. Watercool 21:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it just me or wouldn't such a blatant violation of WP:NPA not merit some sort of a block (say 24hours)? Netscott 21:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• User:Inshanee already nabbed him for 3RR... so an additional block'd be redundant at this point. Netscott 21:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

In the future, if Rdos or any other user gets their user talk page fully protected, they must be blocked for the duration of the protection. Editors should not edit as long as they cannot be directly contacted by non-admins. --Sam Blanning 23:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

This sounds fair. I was trying to avoid blocking Rdos; perhaps it would have been easier if I had. Ah well. Just zis Guy you know? 08:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

A bit late, but add me to the list of people who think JzG did the right thing. -Hit bull, win steak 16:14, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Late, but working anyway :). Anyway - I've fought this user for about a year - for months I had to fight to keep the OR neanderthal article off of WP (see the AFDs and DRV). The user also bases a lot of his edits off of his own "aspie-quiz" from the same site which is very frustrating :\. It didn't stop at the neandethal article either - there was a long battle to keep an unencyclopedic "self-identification" article off WP which - coincidentally I'm sure - promoted the "aspie-quiz" quite heavily - Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Asperger's_self-identification. The user has a few good edits but there are so many ones involving spamming and dubious combative things. I'm sure this doesn't mean much to people but I just wanted to note the long war I was involved in and the amount of time it has taken reverting the spam, explaining WP policies over and over again (which he still doesn't seem to understand...) and various other things... that is all :). EXTREME THANKS to JzG for doing this, Curps for nominating the article for deletion (AGAIN) and the others involved - and (as a former admin myself) I would suggest blocking the user until he is willing to contribute and not promote original theories. RN 20:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User Megawattbulbman

Sounds like work for WP:PAIN, moved. Netscott 13:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't a personal attack as such, it was just rudeness. I was midreplying to it when I got edit conflicted, darn you Netscott :@ Proto///type 13:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have also left a message for the user, and I disagree that "sad little man," "sad delusional little ego trip", and "pussy" aren't a "personal attack as such". Thank you for staying so cool, Abu badali! Bishonen | talk 14:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC).

Sorry there Proto...thanks to you and Bishonen this case has been thoroughly handled. I've posted an WP:NPA related message or two here and realized that's what WP:PAIN is for. This page loads up quick enough without additional misdirected postings. :-) Netscott 15:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, the user's reaction to two civil warning messages have now gotten him blocked by three people (the third was me, de-activating the shorter of the blocks). He really needs a cooling-off period. Bishonen | talk 15:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC).

Page moves against consensus

Would a sysop please look at Boleslav I of Poland? This is where the page was moved following a no consensus vote to move. Also, that page wasn't even the one that was voted on. I can't restore the article because the redirects are bungled. The same editor also moved Boleslav II of Poland and John II Casimir of Poland. Appleseed (Talk) 14:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• Please see the discussion above, where I noted the sockpuppetry inherent in these moves. Mackensen (talk) 14:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The user who did the moves has left messages on my talk page where he says that the actions of the "Polish cabal" have put him in a position where he needs to make "brave" and "unilateral" moves. I'm all for being bold but intentionally creating history for redirect pages to prevent moves from your preferred location - that's just not cricket. I'll delete those extraneous edit histories but I won't make any moves since I have no position on the best location for those articles.

So far we've seen the following tainted tactics in this debate:

• Vote-stacking by sockpuppetry
• Selective canvassing for votes
• Creation of redirect histories

This is getting really stupid. Please try to have an honest discussion on the issue and settle for some sort of compromise. Haukur 14:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. Regardless, the page was moved to a title that wasn't part of the move proposal. I would appreciate it if a sysop restored those pages. Appleseed (Talk) 17:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The move was towards a name that wasn't proposed, the user also made several other moves that reached the point of very "weirdness": where he changed a of the main administrative regions of Poland to a name that gives exactly 197 hit from a name used in CIA World Factbook. Of course no proposal for change was made by the user. --Molobo 18:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I too would appreciate some guidance in this matter. A complex article renaming vote for the Bolesław I the Brave article was concluded as "No consensus". After the vote was concluded (and the sockpuppets revealed), User:Shilkanni unilaterally moved the page to Boleslav I of Poland (which wasn't even one of the names being voted on). A move war then resulted , though at the moment the page is still at Boleslav I of Poland. So, do we ask for an admin to move the page back to where it was at the end of the "No consensus" vote, or should we leave the page at the name that nobody except Shilkanni seems to like, and wade through yet another vote? --Elonka 19:39, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I do not particularly like that location, as I prefer Boleslaus over Boleslav. However I feel it is no longer possible to leave it to the untenable polonized name, where it just is a victim of all sorts of disruption (and prolonged wars) to keep it there againt any sort of majority. I felt that putting it to a place supported by some English works of reference, but not my personal preference, I am not advancing my own preference. I gladly welcome a new poll to actually determine where it should be, provided it does not start in the polonized name, which just leads us all as victims of yet another situation where community rough consensus is undermined by determined minority. Perhaps, if almost everyone has a reason to have a better name, the poll would be fairer than it has this far been. Shilkanni 23:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicly based attacks against others editors

Recentely several Polish editors are being more and more attacked by other users as belonging to "Polish Cabal" and votes are being threatened to be judged differently then others because a voters is a Pole. What are procedures to stop this ethnicly based attacks and incivility. Where should I post the complaint and ask for help in regards to this issue, which board is suitable for addressing this problem ? --Molobo 15:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Molobo, I suspect this is less a case of ethnic prejudice than the backfiring of a prolongued and paranoid trolling campaign on your part. dab (ᛏ) 16:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

If you believe I am Piotrus, Appleseed and Halibutt sockpuppet request checkuser procedure. I would ask you to apologise for this offensive remark against me. --Molobo 16:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

In place of an apology, let me point out that the procedures to address "ethnicly based attacks" are WP:RfC and WP:RfAr. dab (ᛏ) 17:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, that was what I was asking for.

--Molobo 17:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

"Polish Cabal"? That one's not half as bad as "Serbian mafia" which is regularly used around here. I hope I don't need to remind you that on Eastern European related articles people do vote along ethnic lines (I can dig for diffs if you feel its necessary), and I hardly think "Polish Cabal" qualifies as a personal attack (people who use "Serbian mafia" certainly get away with it). --Tēlex 17:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That is very distastefull Telex, I think something must be done against the incivility issue on Wiki.It is very counterproductive. --Molobo 17:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• When people show great solidarity based on race, it raises questions about whether their contributions to discussions/"votes" are actually based on judgement on policy, rather than ethnic/national pride. Misplaced Pages has a lot of room for the former, but the latter has no place here. To a certain degree, reminding people that Misplaced Pages is not a democracy helps to avoid these distortions, but to the degree that people and processes approximate democracy, it's a problem, no matter the specific races involved. --Improv 17:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

There is currently an informal "mediation cabal" discussion on this subject, started by the Polish admin, Piotrus, that is going on at Misplaced Pages talk:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-06-07 Polish Cabal and myself as its leader. Interested editors are invited to participate. --Elonka 17:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

what Improv said. I am disgusted by people who use their nationality instead of their brain, as too often evidenced by votes along ethnicity-lines. Polish editors who do that may be justly called "Polish cabal", just as I would not hesitate to call Swiss editors who do the same a "Swiss cabal". In any case, this is not a topic for AN/I. dab (ᛏ) 18:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ibrahimfaisal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) making death threats

At Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 17#Category:Modern victims of Islamic decapitation, User:Ibrahimfaisal made a death threat against me with this edit. His edit was timed stamped 15:39, 23 June 2006. Because of this death threat, I feel that my personal safety is in jeopardy. Please take appropriate action. Scented Guano 16:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps his rhetoric was a strawman argument in poor taste, but I doubt it was intended as a serious death threat. Interpreting it as such may open the door for accusations of religious phobias, etc. At the very most I'd suggest advising him not to jest about such "touchy" subjects. — Jun. 23, '06 <freak|talk>

Obviously a bad faith report. Faisal even used a smiley, and his "conditional threat" was intended to point out the absurdity (and intentional provocation, I might add) of the title "Islamic decapitation". Faisal has still the potential of a problem user, and a polite warning may be in order. dab (ᛏ) 16:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not accept any warning for the thing I have not done. --- Faisal 18:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

100% concur with dab here. Netscott 16:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I hereby politely warn Scented Guano against trolling WP:ANI with such stuff. Bishonen | talk 17:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC).

Can you recognize Simily sign. ":)" . I was making an important point that if acts of terrorist are according to Islam then each religious Muslim should be a killer. However, they are not. I said it is "anit-Islamic" and I am "Muslim". Is really your understanding so poor? Its simply amazing..... --- Faisal 18:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps your (Faisal's) response was misindented, so you're not actually responding to Bishonen, but Bishonen was politely warning the other person, not you. FWIW, I don't think Faisal was making a death threat either, it was in jest and with the smiley face. Maybe not the best way to say it, but far, far, far from being a death threat, or any sort of threat for that matter. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Deathphoenix. However my response was for Dbachmann and not for Bishonen. --- Faisal 18:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

for f*ck's sake, Faisal, I even pointed out the smiley myself, stop picking on me. dab (ᛏ) 20:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You yourself said Faisal has still the potential of a problem user, and a polite warning may be in order. Then why should not I pick on you? --- Faisal 20:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The kernel of this report--a perception of a serious threat--is apparently mainly due to Ibrahimfaisal's limited knowledge of English idiom. This is the second time I've noticed that he has presented a reductio ad absurdum argument in the form of a conditional statement that may appear, to a native English speaker, to be a threat to perform the absurd act. It's an unfortunate but understandable misapprehension. --Tony Sidaway 19:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Tony sideway: See Scented Guano responce to my post at here. After reading his reply do you really think he would have misunderstand me? From his reply I feel he understand me very well. But still he reported me. --- Faisal 20:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

well, even with an intimate knowledge of both English grammar and internet idiom, I did not for one second interpret Faisal's edit as a "threat to perform the absurd act", and I am rather certain that neither did Scented Guano. dab (ᛏ) 20:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

His personal safety is in jeopardy shmepardy. Bishonen | talk 20:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC).

Regarding the mocking dismissals (see above) of my report regarding this threat against me (see above): It's nice that some of you find this so humorous. I myself though, do not. As for my feelings on this: I do believe that Faisal did indeed threaten me and I ask that he apologize, for (as suggested above) careless use of language. As a non-Muslim, I feel very threatened when a self-professing Muslim (in this case Faisal) "jokes" about chopping off my head - especially while discussing ]. Personally, I feel that this "joke" was at minimum, in extremely bad taste and very hostile. What's next? Should I have to listen to "jokes" about gay-bashing because I am gay? Most of all, the snide suggestion that my report was "trolling" is extremely offensive to me. Those who mocked me here were all very rude. You have mistreated me and I think that I am owed an apology - especially from Faisal for his so-called "joke" which I do not find in the least bit funny. Scented Guano 00:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

• Please move on now User:Scented Guano. Thanks. Netscott 14:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Tom Lennon and Martin Blair

I wanted to bring to the attention of an administrator the fact that an anonymous user (81.174.142.153---whom I suspect is a sockpuppet for Mb29uk) has edited the AfD talk page, completely altering the argument I made for deletion, as well as altering comments made by other editors in the delete discussion. Thank you for your time and attention. ---Charles 17:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Repaired and noted in the discussion. --GraemeL 17:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, GraemeL. Now, what is to be done about the one responsible for these edits? ---Charles 17:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I tagged both of their talk pages with warning messages saying further changes to other users comments would result in them being blocked. Neither of then has edited apart from those changes and they do not appear to be open proxies. --GraemeL 20:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Not to make too big a show of my ignorance, but what are "open proxies"? And, how is that relevant? I'm not being a smart aleck, either, I really do not know. ---Charles 03:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There is an encyclopedia just around the corner from here that can answer all your questions. See Open proxy and Misplaced Pages:No open proxies. -- Eugène van der Pijll 10:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Novasource/User:Betathetapi545

The following is moved from WP:RFI for review by a wider audience:

• Betathetapi545 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Abuse includes but is not limited to subtle but repeated and willful forms of:
  • anti-Semitism (implied by an apparent need to emphasize Jewish connections to anything he views as malfeasance or otherwise slander notable Jews or point out "banking" as a particularly Jewish profession)
  • editorializing
  • repeatedly posting barely relevant facts to slander things even remotely related to Enron (like linking the Beta Theta Pi fraternity to the Enron scandal or pointing out the homosexuality of a BTP member or distorting alumni listings).
  • Repeatedly un-reverting reverts of his vandalism while leaving intentionally confusing edit summaries. Several examples are here and here.
  • Disparaging edit summaries.
  • Vandalizing user pages.
  • Original research.

Note that this guy has many, many more abuses than what I cited above. Please see his user contributions, which are linked from my user page.

This guy has also edited with several anon IPs, all of which are also documented on my user page, and the anon IPs are within a limited IP range of a UK ISP (80.41.*.*). Note that the references above include edits made with these anon IPs.

Three Misplaced Pages users are on patrol to revert his non-credible edits, which are almost 100% of his edits. Nova SS 04:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Novasource (the userpage) contains release of personal infomation, I removed the 'worst' of it into the history, but quite possibly more has to go (and deleted), but this could do with someone(s) with more experience to deal with.

While mentioning WP:RFI I'd like to direct peoples attention towards a post I made on the AN. Petros471 20:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Update: To be on the safe side I've deleted the personal information from User:Novasource. Admins can obviously view it in the history, and if anyone thinks it's worth restoring go ahead- I just thought better safe than sorry. Petros471 20:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Inquiring administrative position

I would like to express my interest in becoming a full time Wikipidia administrator! Do I have to downnload special software? Get an updated browser? Please administrate yourself and bestow an answer.JOe 123...4 20:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

No, you don't need special software. What you do need is to pass an Misplaced Pages:RFA. Typically, only trusted, known users with >>1000 contributions make it. Stay around for a while and contribute, then try it. --Stephan Schulz 20:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

See WP:GRFA for an idea of the sort of things people are looking out for on RFA. Petros471 21:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

*sigh* AN:I troll... --InShaneee 21:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

132.33.132.19 is back

Vandalising Gramophone record again. History is on ] I think it should be a permanent block - nothing stopping legitimate users creating an account from this site. Spenny 21:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

`

Image on Daniella_Sarahyba

The user Levanocu insists in using this image on the Daniella_Sarahyba article (article history here). This image is used under a fair use claim, but there is a wonderful (imho) free alternative available. I feel unconfortable in talking to this user due to his username (portuguese for "take in the *ss"), but I'm trying anyway.

I'm still not sure if asking for help here is the right thing to do in this case. I'm sorry if I am misusing/abusing this spece. Thanks in advance, --Abu Badali 22:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted back and left a note. Replacing freely-licensed images with unfree content is not okay. Jkelly 22:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

If it's true that "Levanocu" means "take in the ass", he needs to be blocked for his username. I don't speak Portugese, however, and I'm not comfortable doing it on one editor's word - any other Portugese speakers here? (Already tried Babelfish, it didn't understand the word, but that means little.) --Sam Blanning 23:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

He's reverted it back. Mo-Al 23:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Image deleted, user warned. Just zis Guy you know? 08:55, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

A Man In Black and Pokemon anime page

Keeps removing cultural references section, someone needs to stop him. CoolKatt number 99999 02:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

CK#9999 is inserting the deleted content from Cultural references in Pokémon into Pokémon (anime), after the former article was overwhelmingly deleted as unsourced, subtrivial, crufty rubbish. I believe he's doing this to justify recreating Cultural references in Pokémon, as he's acknowledged in the past that the material doesn't fit into Pokémon (anime). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The content needs to stay. There are curious users everywhere that want to know. Please leave the section AS IT IS. I've had problems with unconstructive edits made by one user, and I don't need this problem with another. CoolKatt number 99999 02:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I blocked CK#9999 for repeatedly reinserting this deleted material. This isn't the first time CK has had this problem; in November, when Grudges in the Pokemon anime was similarly deleted, CK revert warred over inserting the content of that equally crufty, unsourced, trivial article into Pokémon (anime). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

• Full support for AMIB, of course. Just zis Guy you know? 08:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Block

Could someone please block me for a week? I would like to take an enforced Wikibreak. --Philosophus 03:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this is allowed.... — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 04:14, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

We aren't supposed to block ourselves, despite the frequent temptation...Mackensen (talk) 04:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

No. There's something for your monobook.js that enforces a break, though. WP:JS has it, and it's in old versions of my monobook.js too. Kimchi.sg 05:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Have a friend change your password for you and promise not to tell it to you for a week. --Cyde↔Weys 03:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, a good dear friend like your old pal Avillia. You remember me, right? --Avillia 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Proffitt's House

Recreation of article deleted after AfD (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Proffitt%27s_House). This user may need a severe talking to about removal of AfD tags, recreation of deleted articles, and generally not using Misplaced Pages as a vehicle of and for self-promotion and vanity. ---Charles 03:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

can you give us a link to the recreation? The article which was deleted as a result of the AfD is still deleted and has only been deleted once. User:Zoe| 21:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm afraid I cannot, it's gone. Is there anyway to search for it? ---Charles 03:37, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:The Mekon and User:WMarsh

This is very confusing.

WMarsh (talk · contribs) has a long history of vandalism fighting. He stopped editing in January. A week after, The Mekon (talk · contribs) appeared. His edits mostly consist of vandalism fighting, until May 20. At this point () he began to commit vandalism: , . From the talk page, one might asert there is some relationshoip between the two, but the statement is, frankly, confusing:

I'm the room-mate of The Mekon vandal (yep, my name is inspired by him). Also, you mistakenly tagged WMarsh as the same vandal. He's not! We are all behind the same IP address as we access the Internet through the same router. The anonymous "The Mekon" vandal sneakily used WMarsh's computer/logged-in account in an attempt to masquerade one of his edits.

Since whoever was editing on June 10 also made a straight out personal attack, I have blocked the user for a week, hoping this can be sorted in the meantime. Circeus 04:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Twice-banned editor/vandal is back

Just want to alert your attention to User:Fredgreg, who appears to be the former User:Niggershvar and User:Marytrott, the previous having been banned for the inappropriate username, and the latter for repeated vandalism. In Fredgreg's talk page he admits to being Niggershvar; the actions and language style (and the fact that the userpage says many of the same things) point to him also being Marytrott. So far, it doesn't appear as though any major vandalism has been done by this newest reincarnation, except for the inappropriate use of his userpage, but I hope that some admins are keeping their eye on him just in case. Thanks, romarin 04:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I already got him per his now-deleted user page, in which he straight-up said his name is Matthew Paul Zazaian (the common link). Thanks to User:Romarin for the heads-up, User:Fredgreg was already on my watchlist. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Admin User:Banno

Please review Admin User:Banno's conduct at Talk:Truth. For my part I regard it as sheer harassment. I have already asked that he/she review his/her own conduct, but to no avail. Thanks, Jon Awbrey 04:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Please provide difflinks for the behaviour in question. --Lord Deskana 09:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless you have something really damning Jon, to me it looks like an admin just trying to get some answers from you that he doesn't feel is forthcoming. I'd take this through dispute resolution. --Woohookitty 09:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I read through the last several weeks of discussion, but did not see anything which seemed improper. Has he even taken any 'admin' actions in relation to the page? It looks as if he has just been politely discussing / disagreeing with you. --CBD 13:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks

I would like to note this from User:A Transportation Enthusiast. This is part of a content dispute (I have been working for some time to ensure WP:NPOV in a series of articles on a largely theoretical transport technology called personal rapid transit, now User:Stephen B Streater is helping as well, which is greatly appreciated). I don't want ATE to be blocked, but I have warned him that this is not on. I am getting a bit frustrated that I am being characterised as an anti-PRT zealot for insisting that we remember at all times the perspective that no PRT system currently exists, but I will try to keep my temper (despite the stress of moving house)... Just zis Guy you know? 11:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I have warned the user again, but this time for incivilty. Disputes happen, yes, but there is no need to actually go into personally attacking people. Iolakana| 12:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

JzG has repeatedly mass-reverted good edits by at least three separate editors on these pages, in some cases leaving little or no comment, in other cases, actually accusing us of disingenuousness or POV-pushing. He's also threatened to lock the page (twice) based on a single word he misread, and this threat occurred just minutes after he was requested to do so by a vandal (Avidor) who has publicly ridiculed Misplaced Pages. If you would like more evidence of JzG's transgressions here, I'd be more than willing to provide them. A Transportation Enthusiast 16:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

We can talk about JzG's transgressions in a minute. Right now we're talking about your transgressions. Whatever JzG does, it doesn't excuse personal attacks. -lethe 17:05, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It's very easy for personal attacks to escalate, so it's better to stick to the discussion of article content on the article talk page where possible. Stephen B Streater 17:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, looking a the ULTra (PRT) talk page, I would recommend against an edit war as this will escalate the situation in a way which will make it harder to resolve amicably. Stephen B Streater 17:55, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

JzG is defending an editor (Avidor) who regularly called several of us wackos and cultists. Never once did JzG threaten to block him. Why is that?

For my part, what would you like me to do? Withdraw it? Delete it? I'd like to play by the rules here, although I'd be hard pressed to find evidence that JzG has been held to the same standard (multiple, irrefutable cases of edit warring and assuming bad faith, and from an admin). Am I really to be banned for such a small transgression when this admin has flaunted the rules repeatedly on these pages? A Transportation Enthusiast 17:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Being banned reduces an editor's ability to carry weight in arguments. Conversely, strong arguments will attract plenty of new editors (including Admins). Admins are not accountable to each other, and generally look at things from independent points of view, within the standard published rules. And I'd be surprised if Admins wanted Yes men as Admins. That wouldn't get the encyclopaedia anywhere. Much better is to bring new people into the discussion who may find new ways to move things forward. There are many strong editors who are keeping an eye on this article - lethe, for example. Stephen B Streater 18:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not plan on being banned. I wrote what I wrote and that's that. JzG has established an air of hostility on these pages, and I wrote something that in retrospect I probably shouldn't have (though, come on, given the way JzG has treated us, calling us POV pushers and edit warring on every change we make, is this such a crime?)

But now that we're here, the two things I'd like to know is: (1) how do I make amends for my transgression, and (2) how do I see to it that JzG's numerous transgressions are similarly addressed. A Transportation Enthusiast 23:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Another point while I remember it. The level of hostility on this issue is relatively low compared to others I have seen, but has lingered a long time. It would be good to sort it out to make editing more enjoyable and constructive going forward. Stephen B Streater 19:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You're preaching to the choir, Stephen. I've repeatedly tried to work with JzG, but he keeps accusing me of bad faith. Just a few hours ago, he accused me of disrupting to make a point, just because I asked for sources for several article contentions. Maybe I should have done what he's done repeatedly: remove the contentions without comment and edit-war when someone tries to re-insert. Then maybe I wouldn't be accused of disruption for (gasp!) asking for sources! A Transportation Enthusiast 23:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand - the quote doesn't look that bad to me, in these discussions we've had far far worse. The problem is, we've had discussions that focus on subjective things like POV. Every article has a point of view, and its not an easy task to quantify its neutrality. JzG has insisted on a POV that many of us thinks is not neutral, and the "personal attacks" have been taken from both sides, with JzG implying that me an a couple other users are pushing advertisement, while we have accused JzG of pushing the idea that PRT is a wishy-washy conglomeration of badly thought out plans.

This isn't to make our discussions out to be name calling - but the accusations have been taken from both sides, and I don't think any of our recent discussions have warrented any formal action.

My opinion is that ATE is a little to vehement about bringing up JzGs faults up for debate. JzG is not a vandal, but does produce very questionable edits sometimes, and his agreement with Avidor (personal attack removed - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops)) is a little disconcerting. However, we need to figure out a way to agree on ways that we can edit, and come to a consensus more quickly - without annoying the shit out of eachother. Fresheneesz 02:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

If you have to apologize for it, don't say it in the first place. Especially when we're talking about personal attacks. >:( - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Pravi Gusinjez

CrnaGora (talk · contribs) has requested that I unblock Pravi Gusinjez (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) because stated that his account has been hacked and that someone took over his account and started vandalising. I appear to half believe him becuase of these tw edits, (insulting "himself") and (insulting "himself" again). But other edits (here) seem to make me think otherwise. What do you think? Iolakana| 12:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Has he reset the password and has control again? The same thing happened a while ago to another user (who forgot to log out on a school library PC) and he has been fine once he reset the password. I would AGF (at least the first time) if he has regained control. Thatcher131 13:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, forget it. The sitatuation referred to above was of an established editor who temporarily lost control of his account. Pravi's very first edit was vandalism, making his explanation somewhat unlikely. If he wants to be productive he can use his new CrnaGora account, although I would keep a close eye. Thatcher131 15:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... Too late! Already unblocked him, but I will keep an eye on him. ;-) Iolakana| 19:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeago

Yeago (talk · contribs) has been poisoning the work environment on Talk:Norm Coleman for weeks, and has just left me yet another nasty note on the talk page minutes ago. Multiple users have admonished him to stop personal attacks on the Coleman talk page and his own talk page , but he has been ignoring them. I think an administrator should take a look at the talk page and block him a day for incivility, giving him a warning to clean up his act before he is subject to a RfC or RfAr. 172 | Talk 16:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

While I agree I could approach people with more tact, you continue to hide behind the incivility argument to strongarm your position at Talk:Norm Coleman. For instance, you suggest User:DanielM is uncivil simply because he suggests that your solicitation of others into the debate led to a skewed result. So, while I may occasionally be colorful or brash in my points, at least there is an honesty to it. Sorry you don't like the fact that I have a bad habit of letting the air out of your consensus-seeking facade (of which this notice is one example).Yeago 17:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I've placed a warning on the talk page. Let me know if there are any more offences.--File Éireann 16:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

A balanced response.Yeago 17:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Satisfactioncom

Repeatedly removes prod tag from Satisfaction.com_Free_Online_Auctions. Someone kill it. ackoz 16:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

He has every right to remove the PROD tag! And once it has been removed, by anyone, for any reason, it should not be put back. Please familiarize yourself with how WP:PROD works. PROD is over for that page. If you want it deleted, take it to AfD. · rodii · 16:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

• I didn't put the prod there.
• Sorry I didn't read the PROD policy thoroughly.

ackoz 16:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

When you were there you could have added the afd tags yourself, but that's three steps and thats too much right? The time you saved can be used for instance for telling me repeatedly and in a nice voice that I violated the WP:PROD. I just wanted to stop a blatant spam, per WP:IAR, I used my common sense and restored the prod which would serve wikipedia better. The article has a snowball's chance in hell that it will survive the AfD. I wanted to restore the prod, with same tone answer as you gave me and WP:SNOW link, but I am using db now, even if it doesn't meet the criteria. ackoz 16:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Spam is a valid candidate for speedy deletion. In case like this one, you could probably have gone from Prod to CSD. It all depends on how much text was there. However, when the creator of an article removes the prod tag.... Well, it's why I'm not fond of the system. Geogre 17:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

CSD? I used db|spam that's all. The creator of the article should be able to change the tag to AfD, but not completely delete. ackoz 17:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I came across as rude, ackoz. (I didn't send it to AfD because, frankly, I don't think that's the right thing to do here, but I respect your feeling that it is.) · rodii · 21:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

81.178.246.137

Check. ackoz 17:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Nothing since your warning. In the future, please make sure the user is properly warned and is continuing to vandalize, then take to WP:AIV. Thanks. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Leonard23

Leonard23 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been calling my edits vandalism, and he's also using sockpuppets on TV station pages WSVN and WHDH-TV. (see Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Leonard23) --CFIF (talk to me) 17:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The only issue here is a dispute between which version of a logo to use in the article, with each user terming the other's edits "vandalism". Figure out how to talk to each other and resiolve the dispute or take it to WP:DR or you'll both end up blocked for WP:3RR. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 17:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

HEY! I didn't call his edits vandalism! --CFIF (talk to me) 18:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You reported him here as {{vandal|Leonard23}} rather than as {{user|Leonard23}}; meantime, you also spouted off about WP:CIVIL while saying, "I bet you can get one of your sockpuppets to confirm it for you." (it's suspected sockpuppetry until confirmed, and I see no requests at WP:SSP). Meantime, the remainder stands; work together or take it to WP:DR or everyone guilty of WP:3RR will be blocked for it. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 18:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Er, using the {{vandal}} template here versus the {{user}} template doesn't mean that someone is actually calling another editor a vandal—it's just used when one wants to display a different set of links regarding an editor's history. The former template adds the user's page moves, block history, and a block link. I've not investigated this dispute at all, but I think it's important to understand that the use of that template doesn't imply that the user is a vandal. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, and excuse me for not knowing what to do to report sockpuppets. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

That's over hynh. This dispute really isn't as big of a deal that you are making it. Just work it out instead of edit warring. —Whomp  19:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay; I've always found that the use of the {{vandal}} template was considered a vandal report; I'll rethink the position. Meantime, CFIF, it's not that you reported or didn't report sockpuppetry so much as you said the other person had them rather than that you suspected so. Still, you're using this as a straw man; you're both edit-warring to your preferred version, your only communications are you saying the other's version "blows" while his response is "I'll report CFIF to an administrator for vandalism", leading you to beat him to it. The fact remains that neither of you is taking any steps, besides coming here to "report" someone, to resolve the dispute. At the very top of this page, it notes that this is not "the place to bring disputes over content, or reports of abusive behaviour — we aren't referees, and have limited authority to deal with abusive editors. We have a dispute resolution procedure which we recommend you follow." Apologies if I'm snippish today, but when a report here comes across as a case of "wah, I'm telling!", the response is often "go work it out." RadioKirk (u|t|c) 19:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Leonard23. Leonard seems way more than impossible to deal with, so I think dispute resolution works. I really don't see how you can take Leonard's side, he's the one who's causing problems with his "suspected" sockpuppets. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

This user is continuing to make personal attacks and acting belligerently. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking sides? Are you serious? You've been here for a year, Chris, you should know better than to get into an edit war, especially with someone who you accuse of using sockpuppetry to get his way. Use the process, use WP:RFCU if appropriate, and stay out of the war; otherwise you give the appearance of being as much to blame as he is, even if you're not. Meantime, I've left him a note regarding WP:CIVIL and WP:DR. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

And I've left him a note about vandalism, too, since CFIF's last link there actually is to vandalism by Leonard23—he's seen blanking a suspected sockpuppet report about himself on the page Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets. Bishonen | talk 21:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC).

more belligerent behavior --CFIF (talk to me) 03:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ha, you think that's belligerent? You've been RFAR'd! (You and me both.) Bishonen | talk 14:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC).

Ha! It even got erased due to being invalid. --CFIF (talk to me) 18:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Morwen

The two users who filed this have just been revealed to be socks of one another by CheckUser (Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Cuthbert11). As such, could somebody please close the RFC for lacking certification and perma-block one or the other (both are pretty new, so neither is obviously the puppet master for the other one)? Thanks! -Hit bull, win steak 21:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted it. SlimVirgin 22:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Aish Warya sockpupped of blocked user Nacho Librarian

User:Aish Warya has engaged in mass vandalism, reverts, and POV pushing and is a likely sockpuppet of blocked User:Nacho Librarian, see here. He is currently logged in and continuing to edit. Ideogram 22:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

While there is something to be said for the excessive use of reversions, I don't see any vandalism in the last 100 contributions. There are likenesses to Nacho in quite a few aspects, from my limited understanding of the case... However, until there starts being true vandalism, or continued issues after DR, this should be handled by the dispute resolution process and not blocking. --Avillia 22:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Aish Warya (talk · contribs) has been engaged in personal attacks, adding nonsense into articles, unexplained deletion of content, vandalism of usertalk page, using personal attacks when warned about 3RR, and blanking of an entire article. I think that many of User:Aish Warya's edits could be considered as vandalism and Aish Warya seems to be editing in bad faith. This seems like a bad case of WP:POINT. --RevolverOcelotX 23:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There is definite POV pushing there that has a definite chance of being solved simply by following WP:DR. There is also quite a bit of incivility; Which could be solved just by following the dispute resolution process. (Although I fail to see how the virgin comment qualifies as a personal attack.) As for the "vandalism", there is a fairly well-documented bug which occures as to the chunks of article being dropped; I think it's in relation to Firefox and Google Toolbar. It needs to be reverted, but it doesn't qualify as vandalism. WP:AGF, please. --Avillia 02:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Avillia, I think the new user, A rat tat tat yo bass (talk · contribs) might be another sockpuppet of Nacho Librarian and Aish Warya. His contributions shows mass vandalism, reverts, and POV pushing on the same pages. Look at this edit where he blanked the whole articles without any explanation. Notice how he blanked the articles 3 times, , , . That seems like intentional vandalism to me. Notice this edit where User:Aish Warya blanked the article in tandem to avoid the 3RR. --RevolverOcelotX 02:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:CH-inkbot is another sock with the same edit pattern. After I blocked him, he was repeatedly incivil towards Ran and Jiang on his talk page, which I then protected. Kusma (討論) 04:29, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Molobo

I have protected User talk:Molobo, since Molobo is repeatedly inserting an attack on the motives of other editors there. User:Zoe| 23:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Lesage Gravity and CambridgeBayWeather Intervention

As most of us know, Misplaced Pages is becoming a favorite venue for various physics cranks to propound and promote their pseudo-scientific theories. For example, a well-known crackpot named Mark McCutcheon recently published a book called "The Final Theory" in which he claims that all of modern science is a fraud, and that gravity is actually due to the continual expansion of the Earth and all other matter. He then came to Misplaced Pages and created an article on his "Expansion Theory", heavily quoting his own book on the subject. After a protracted edit war, this individual's self-promotional original research was finally removed from Misplaced Pages. This is an illustration of how the Misplaced Pages policies are actually effective in the long run at weeding out self-promoting pseudo-science crackpots. There are many other examples of similar crank pseudo-science articles that have been weeded out. But the process is not pretty. It typically requires one or more individual(s) who are at least somewhat knowledgeable in the actual scientific field, and who are also familiar with the ways of science cranks, and who will persistently correct, challenge, and revert the seemingly endless pseudo-scientific drivel that a dedicated crackpot can generate.

Recently a particularly virulant case came up, involving what is called "Lesage Gravity". A group of well-known physics crackpots (including the likes of Tom "faces on Mars" van Flandern, Paul Stowe, Barry Mingst, and Matt Edwards, names familiar to readers of the sci.* newsgroups), put together a book called "Pushing Gravity", propounding the old and long-since-discredited idea that gravity is caused by an aetheral flux of invisible particles pushing in all directions. They then (like Mark McCutcheon before them) came to Misplaced Pages to promote their pseudo-science book, heavily quoting themselves, in an article that reads like a publicity release for their book. None of the collaborators on the book have ever been able to get their ideas published in reputable journals, so they had to resort to putting together their own book, and then promoting it on Misplaced Pages. Stowe, Mingst, and Edwards were soon joined by another well-known Usenet physics crank named Ed Schaefer, and the four of them have produced an article that is an embarrassment to Misplaced Pages. As in other such cases, this situation could have been dealt with by the usual Misplaced Pages processes... HOWEVER....

An unusual and somewhat unexpected thing has happenned. These four individuals have somehow gained the cooperative support of a Misplaced Pages administrator named CambridgeBayWeather. This administrator, for whatever reason, seems to do whatever Ed Schaefer and/or Paul Stowe tells him to do. If Ed or Paul say to lock the article, CBW locks the article. If Ed or Paul tell him to unlock the article, he unlocks the article. If they tell him to block a user, he blocks the user. As a result, the only individual who has been trying to restrain this cadre of physics crackpots (namely myself) has now been blocked (on the flimseyist pretext of a 3RR complaint that I've ever seen... check the record for yourself to see what I mean), so the article is now completely "owned and operated" by these self-promoting original researchers.

My reason for posting this message here is not to complain about the physics cranks. They will always be with us, and they simply do what is in their nature to do. I'm posting this message simply to point out the odd behavior of CambridgeBayWeather, the Wiki administrator who seems to be operating at the beck and call of these crackpots. I have no personal stake in whether Misplaced Pages succeeds or fails, so I'm just as happy to walk away, but if there's anyone out there who cares about the quality and integrity (and reputation) of Misplaced Pages science articles, I suggest you look into the behavior of CambridgeBayWeather, and find out what he thinks he's accomplishing by blocking individuals who are simply trying to uphold the Misplaced Pages policies and standards, and who are making a good faith effort to adhere to the rules while doing so.Fixwiki 00:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This appears to be a pretty typical WP:3RR conflict. See User talk:Fixwiki. Except to confirm that CBW has been correctly upholding the policies (it's pretty clear he has), this is a content issue and doesn't really need admin attention. JDoorjam Talk 00:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised to see it characterized as a typical 3RR conflict. The administrator blocked me after the SECOND revert for a calender day, because this revert was only 22 hours (rather than 24 hours) after the first of two reverts on the previous calender day, making a total of four reverts with a single 24 hour period... even though I explicitly explained my intention to stay within the 3RR limit. I've personally witnessed "revert wars" where people have reverted articles dozens of times in as many minutes, but the administrators in those situations just counsuled patience, and indeed the situations resolved themselves before long. There was a time when blocking an editor was regarded as a serious an undesirable step, given the whole philosophy of Misplaced Pages, and it was reserved for egregious intentional violations of policy. In this case, ferreting out the fact that an inadvertent violation had even occurred took some careful scrutiny.

I'd also like to point out that I've been continually and repeatedly threatened by other editors, mainly Ed Schaefer, posting private messages to me, telling me things like "I hereby advise you to change your name, "Fixwiki", because I find it offensive, as if you are claiming that you are going to "fix" Misplaced Pages"; If you go on being offensive in this manner, I will have you banned from Misplaced Pages". I simply ignore his messages, which seems to enrage him to send me even more outrageous messages, but I frankly didn't think anything of it... UNTIL... he actually campaigned to get the administrator CambridgeBayWeather to have me blocked, by alerting him to the horrifying "infraction" I described previously (reverting at 22 instead of 24 hours). At that time I asked CBW where I could complain about this, and he directed me here, so I posted the message above. Then when I just logged back on, I have another private message from Mr. Schaefer, informing me that he has noted my message here, and if I keep up this unacceptable behavior, he will have me banned permanently. And he seems to have the endorsement or at least the support of CambridgeBayWeather in his campaign against me.

Is this really just a "content issue"? It really seems to me there is a serious problem here, one that has little or nothing to do with content. I think the crux of the problem is the Misplaced Pages policy, formulated by Jim Wales, against "physics cranks" and "original research". I have invoked this policy in the explanations of my edits, and this has made me the target of personal attacks from physics cranks, perhaps not surprisingly. My message here is not that I need or seek any kind of protection against the attacks of physics cranks; those attacks go with the territory. My message is that I don't think Misplaced Pages administrators should let themselves be manipulated into carrying out the threats of physics cranks. Is this too much to ask? By the way, any one of my messages may be the last, because I'm sure when Mr Schaefer sees this, he will launch some charge at me before CambridgeBayWeather, who will probably block me permanently. Fixwiki 06:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to explain to Fixwiki that 3RR is not a calendar day but a 24 hour period. The thing that bothered me most was this edit where he seems to me to bee implying that he is just going to continually edit war. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:46, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

As our policy says, the 3RR is an electric fence and not an entitlement. Even if one strives to stay within the letter of the 3RR – which I hasten to say, Fixwiki apparently failed to do – an editor who perpetually stays just within the border of the 3RR is still engaged in edit warring, and is still likely to find himself blocked. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand completely that the 3RR rule applies to any consecutive 24 hour period, not to calender days. I also fully acknowledge that I reverted the disputed article four times within one 24 hour period. I explained this in the previous messages above. My point is that blocking someone on the second day of reverting a disputed article, when he reverted the article only 3 times on one calender day and only twice on the next, for a total of FIVE reverts in TWO days, is a rather zealous application of the 3RR rule. Also, I think a review of your talk page shows that this action of yours, as with your previous actions related to this disputed article, were taken in direct response to instructions that you received from Ed Schaefer. It's as if you have appointed Ed as a deputy administrator, and frankly I think this is highly unwise and inappropriate, because he is one of the "physics cranks" (to use the term from the Misplaced Pages policy statement) who is promoting the violation of Misplaced Pages policies against (1) self-promotion, and (2) original research in science articles.

Ed has stated explicitly that he does not feel bound by those policies and does not intend to adhere to them, and of course the same applies to his accomplices Paul Stowe, Matt Edwards, and Barry Mingst. If you are so vigilant to take pre-emptive action against ME based on a message in which I indicated that I would ADHERE to the 3RR policy (albeit with a mis-interpretation of the 24 hour versus calender day), why do these blatent statements of Ed Schaefer voicing his intention to VIOLATE two of the most important Wiki policies not prompt you to take action against HIM? (By the way, that's a rhetorical question... I have never sought to have anyone blocked, silenced, or censored, and I will not start now.)

As an adminnistrator, I would think you would also take into account the fact that each of my five reverts over two days, separated by about 8 hours, was answered by an anti-revert, usually within MINUTES, and with no justification, from either Ed Schaefer or his accomplice Paul Stowe. This is another reason that, in the past, Misplaced Pages administrators have tended to take a more circumspect view, and not just decide to BLOCK one particular editor, and certainly not after five reverts in two days. Misplaced Pages contains the ability to revert articles for a reason, and it is quite understandable that, especially in the case of disputed articles written by a group of self-promoting "original researchers", that there will be multiple reverts at some stage of the process. As I said, dealing with physics cranks is not a pretty process. I really think Misplaced Pages has the resources to do it successfully, BUT ONLY if the administrators refrain from actively supporting the cranks by blocking and banning individuals who try to uphold the Wiki anti-physics-crank policies. Fixwiki 16:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User talk:RJII

Is this edit appropriate? User:Zoe| 01:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Finally, this account is blocked indefinately. What good news... I think the post should stay. It demonstrates what a problem this user was, and serves as a reminder in case a credulous admin (there are many of them) is ever tempted to unblock him. Unlike most sanctioned POV-pushers, RJII outright admits in the statement his goal of undermining conventional encyclopedic and scholarly standards in order to push a POV: The RJII Project has been victorious in what it set out to accomplish on Misplaced Pages, but the larger goal is still to be acheived. Why was the Project undertaken? Certainly it is to shape public opinion .... No longer will the academic hierarchy decide what the student sees or does not see. 172 | Talk 01:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

While I will doubtlessly be ostracized for stating the obvious:

• It's a great way of saying goodbye after tiring of the community.
• It's a great social experiement which seems to have suceeded.

Whatever way you slice it, it's hilarious. --Avillia 02:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

ElectricRay is certainly acting inappropriately (not for the first time) in "adopting" the text of a banned user and re-posting it. I have removed it, per WP:BAN:

Because we discourage people from using Misplaced Pages to interact with banned users, it is likewise inappropriate to post comments and discussion on behalf of banned users. Such activity is sometimes called "proxying". As people respond to such material, this will inevitably draw in the banned user, and again may tempt them to subvert their ban. Our aim is to make it as easy as possible for banned users to leave Misplaced Pages with their dignity intact, whether permanently, or for the duration of their ban. Offering to proxy is likewise inappropriate.

Bishonen | talk 02:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC).

Well... Has he been 'banned'? He's been blocked for a indefinite period for admitting to a shared account today. He added the text onto his userpage himself on his account; It is more likely that he will be drawn in by the removal of this information in comparison to letting it stand as it's own topic under his userpage. Additionally, anyone can view the text in the prior revision(s). Removing it from the talk page serves no purpose. Then again, neither does reinstating it by the same path of logic. --Avillia 02:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

(Shh....! Notice me ostracizing ya, Avilla? ) Bishonen | talk 02:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC).

RJII's response to a recent block by me was All I can say is I'm glad I'm out of here at the end of the month. Good riddance to you all. I duly pointed out that under his probation he could have earned a ban from editing the article in question and, in the circumstances, a three-hour block for "Sterile edit warring with User:Alienus on Randism" was quite lenient.

Given RJII's demonstrated immaturity, I'd take the grandiose claims accompanying his departure with a bushel of salt. --Tony Sidaway 21:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:百家姓之四

Has anyone spoken to this user about coming up with a new User name? They've been here for almost a year. User:Zoe| 01:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we should force him/her to change it, if they've been here a year I'm sure they've behaved properly. If the user was causing problems then I would change my mind. I've already encountered this particular user and they seem quite friendly. Let them keep it. PerfectStorm 02:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

If this were truely a problem the devs would just disable unicode support/other language support in usernames. I don't know how this user got the idea that using those kind of characters in their name was a GOOD idea. --mboverload@ 02:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Currently, all new Usernames that contain other than Latin characters are blocked on sight. User:Zoe| 02:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like Kimchi.sg's spoken to them on their talk page -- Samir धर्म 02:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User Antonio en las Ruedas has been blocked by a bot (page moves)

User:Antonio en las Ruedas has been blocked by a bot intended to block pagemove vandalism.

Please check the move log for this user and unblock if this was an error.

Please delete this message after the situation has been resolved.

This message was generated by the bot. -- Curps 04:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Spanish translation, Anthony on Wheels, WoW endorse block. Jaranda 04:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• also there seems to be a connection to the AN/i troll, see post directly under this one for reference--205.188.116.65 05:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism in Progress at the Uma Thurman page, June 25, 2006

The Uma Thurman page, which is one of the featured articles, is currently being vandalized. When you click on it you get a blank page with "Willy's back, bitches!" written on it. Please direct your attention to it.

It's 12:11 a.m, Eastern Time here. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrcocksman (talk • contribs)

• AN/i *cough* troll--205.188.116.65 05:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Haizum ongoing personal attacks and WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF breaches

This user has had an ongoing history of making personal attacks against other users. He has exhibited a complete inability to be civil. A quick glance at his talk page, his comments on my talk page and Talk:Bear community shows WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF breaches as well as contemptuous comments aimed at the communty as a whole. I attempted to file an RfD only to discover that one was filed within the last six months. It was suggested to me by User:Circeus that I bring the issue up here. My awareness of this user came about due to his comments at Bear community on the talk page, wherein he has suggested that this very valid and historically important subcommunity of the gay community was a vanity entry. He then made attacks on any users who disagreed with him. I broached the subject on his talk page in what I felt was a very civil manner, and he proceeded to belittle the entire Bear Community movement - including their flag, the very symbol of the movement - on my talk page. When it became apparent to him that I was not going to let this behaviour pass unnoticed, he began a lengthy diatribe on my talk page. It seems overwhelmingly clear that this user has not learned any lessons from past reprimands, and continues to show a flagrant disregard for others on Misplaced Pages. It is time, I think, for someone to step in and set things right once and for all. Pacian 06:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

That's quite a heading for this section. ;-) --LV 06:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

As of now, I have blocked him for 48h regarding Bad faith assumptions (, ) and this borderlin personal attack. Also several rather uncivil comments. Circeus 06:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

It's 2 in the morning here. I'm going to bed. Feel free to review and unblock if you consider appropriate, but considering the long history of confrontational editing from haizum, i feel the block more than justified. Circeus 06:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about this user or his behavior otherwise, but those diffs you listed don't justify any block in particular. --TJive 06:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The block was quickly lifted. I would like other Administrators to review the actions taken against me for the sake of the community. Haizum 06:41, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've unblocked Haizum for the time being. See his talk page for more info. If you feel I have erred, don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks. --LV 06:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Let me just clarify what this user has done, and how serious it is: he has gone into an article - Bear community - and asserted, based solely on his personal distaste for the subject matter, that it is a vanity entry and invalid. He has shown a complete lack of respect for a community of people that numbers in the hundreds of thousands, globally. And he continues to do so in his extensive uncivil comments. I may be expressing a major POV on the matter, but how are we supposed to judge someone's intent if not by his actions? What this user says is simple "sarcasm" is, to me, a gross trivialization of a group of people's existance. What he said amounts to me going to an article on Puerto Rico and saying "Oh, well I'm just going to call my living room a country and make up a flag for it, so it's just like Puerto Rico!" And he continues to belittle and attack others! I don't understand how this individual is NOT in extreme violation of WP:CIVIL, and I just don't understand how the admins have allowed it to continue! Please! HELP ME understand! I know this may come off as insincere, but I really am at a loss to comprehend. Pacian 06:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Sir, I made my opinion known and nothing else. I did not seek deletion of the article, and I did not pursue major revision. Please do not continue to assume my position on the gay community, I am quite tolerant. Haizum 06:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to note that this incident started on my talk page with the following comments:

a topic about which you clearly know nothing -Pacian

That is, quite literally, a statemnt of ignorance. -Pacian

to further educate yourself -Pacian

your seeming need to treat others poorly here on Misplaced Pages -Pacian

I peacefully left the discussion page in question weeks, if not months ago without any lasting influence effecting the article. I then received the aforementioned comments on my talk page. My response was sarcastic, but no personal attacks were launched, even after a retaliatory ANI was started against me. I would like this situation to end. I obviously have no interest in the Bear Community page, and I have no interest in talk page discussions with Pacian. Haizum 06:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Haizum, but you suggested that an encyclopedia entry about a 25-year-old sub-community of the gay community was a vanity entry, clearly without educating yourself on the matter. That is the sheer definition of ignorance. You have an extensive history of people complaining about the way you talk to them - that indicates that SOME PEOPLE clearly feel you are treating them badly. And even if these incidents you cite here WERE attacks on you - which they so clearly were not, when viewed in context of the paragraph you took them from - it doesn't justify you attacking back. Pacian 06:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I have just had my talk page vandalized by User:Scewfot. I would be interested to know who this user is, and to have them blocked, as it was an obvious retaliation for this ongoing conflict. Pacian 06:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

you obviously weren't listening hard enough when i said SCREW YOU COMMIE BASTARD. obviously you piss off a LOT OF wikipedians around here with your antics--Scewfot 06:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Administrator, please remove the last two comments from this board. Pacian has no business announcing (and implying responsibility for) vandalism on his talk page under this heading. Haizum 07:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The only thing I implied is that the user Scewfot has obviously been prompted to make his vandalistic edits based on my recent edits. I do find it quite a coincidence that a brand new user registered, came to Misplaced Pages, and managed to stumble solely on this particular confict, and vandalize pages only relating to it and nothing else. But I am insinuating nothing. Pacian 07:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've indef blocked Scewfot...edits have consisted of personal attacks and vandalism exclusively . Rx StrangeLove 07:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• I wouldn't worry too much about it, here on AN/i we have a little thing we like to call the AN/i troll, a user with one or two edits who comes here to AN/i and reports very strange, usually non-existant "incidents" then goes away, which is exactly why you don't bring content disputes to WP:AN/i, it only ever winds up feeding the odd little troll living under this particular bridge--205.188.116.65 07:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

pacian, I'd like to comment on your behavior here. I have found Haizum to dislay an history of confrontational editing and uncivil comments. I told that when coming here, you should make a clear case and present. You have come and, for lack of a a better term, rambled. This does not make our job any easier. I looked into this because I wanted to be helpful after nullifying your reactivation of and old RFC, but it is not the job of admins to examine in details the contribution history when a user accuses another. You have failed to present proofs, and this is probably the reason you have been mostly ignored. However, I think this (and probably the Hadith killings case, although you are not involved in the latter) case might benefit from mediation. Circeus 12:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

E.G.:Unfortunately, saying, "I have found Haizum to dislay an history of confrontational editing" would qualify as a lie if an individual actually glanced at my edit history. For the most part, my edits have been small corrections and tags, the rest is talk/discussion page related. Also unfortunate is the fact that I run a 50% chance of being blocked simply for pointing out how someone else is misrepresenting me/the issue/the POV/etc, which usually falls under the WP:CIV Iron Umbrella. Of course the initial confrontational act of saying "I have found Haizum to dislay an history of confrontational editing" gets a complete pass. Haizum 16:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I will retract if by "editing" we mean all types of article and talk/disc page editing; I am indeed bold with regards to discussion, but that does not directly affect the informational content and encyclopedic value of Misplaced Pages. Haizum 16:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

WillyonWheels (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Here we go again...Harro5 07:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

No such user exists. Just zis Guy you know? 08:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Indefinite block of KraMuc

I have indefinitely blocked KraMuc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). The immediate cause was this egregious personal attack, after I gave him this warning. In the interest of full disclosure, I have been involved in editing articles he's worked on, largely in regard to trying to explain/enforcec WP:NPOV and WP:NOR, whic he habitually ignores. In the past he has been blocked for a week for abusive sockpuppetry, and further back he made threats to take action against a user in real life. (Because the user in question was me, I elected to explain the rule in this regard and not to take further action at the time; however, he continues to allude to legal action in an effort to intimidate other users.) For more detail, read my warning.

Although the particular offense he just committed is not deserving of an indefinite block, on the heels of the warning I gave him it indicates to me that the user has no interest in following Misplaced Pages's rules and policies, either regarding basic civility or regarding our core rules like NPOV and NOR. He has been warned and reminded of these things an extraordinary number of times, with no result, so I no longer believe he has any potential to be an asset to the project.

If anyone has concerns about this blocking or is tempted to reduce it, I urge you to review the case in more detail. I am happy to provide more diffs and to discuss at length if requested. However, as his recent edit all by itself (his second block for personal attacks in the last few days) merits an extentended block anyway, I do request that time be allowed for discussion before the block is reduced. -- SCZenz 10:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that the NOR issue is disputable, it seems to be in part a lack of providing references in time (and he excused himself of being temporarily unable to do so). However, WP:NPOV and WP:CIV are sufficient for an extended block IMHO. Harald88 12:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I would add WP:SOCK and WP:NPA as additional grounds, but on the other hand, I wish he could come back at some future point a changed man and learn to play by the WP rules. If Krause's work is verifiable and notable, regardless of its possible fringe position, WP would want it properly described, with appropriate due weighting alongside other views. It seems that KraMuc is eager to present this theory, but needs to learn a collaborative and civil WP style to do so. If he ever does come back, I would support a "one strike you're out" probation for civility. Crum375 12:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Your points are both good. However, I think I gave him many extra chances to learn NPOV and NOR (and would never block for those alone anyway), and many extra chances on CIV and NPA as well. In the end, I gave him a "one strike and you're out" ultimatum on the civility, and he responded by making a scathing and deliberate personal attack on another user. I believed for a long time he might become a good contributor once he learned the rules, but at this point he's had every opportunity. -- SCZenz 15:25, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I saw some of his (and his puppets') vitriol and profanities in the meanwhile, and 'scathing' may be an understatement. I would say at least a year before any consideration for rehabilitation. Crum375 15:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• If he's threatening legal action, you should point out "no legal threats". If he fails to adhere to that, he can be blocked until he does. - 87.209.70.231 21:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Kuratowski's Ghost

In Israeli apartheid, Kuratowski's Ghost has deliberately falsified a quotation by Desmond Tutu in order to remove something he didn't like and replace it with something KG can agree with. The quotation KG left in the article passes off something Desmond Tutu never said as a direct quotation.

See

Kuratowski's Ghost changed (emphasis added):

"Many South Africans are beginning to recognize the parallels to what we went through. (South African Cabinet Minister) Ronnie Kasrils and (South African Member of Parliament) Max Ozinsky, two Jewish heroes of the antiapartheid struggle, recently published a letter titled "Not in My Name." Signed by several hundred other prominent Jewish South Africans, the letter drew an explicit analogy between apartheid and current Israeli policies. Mark Mathabane and Nelson Mandela have also pointed out the relevance of the South African experience."

to

""Many South Africans are beginning to recognize the parallels to what we went through. (South African Cabinet Minister) Ronnie Kasrils and (South African Member of Parliament) Max Ozinsky, two ANC members of Jewish ancestry, recently published a letter titled "Not in My Name." Signed by several hundred other prominent Jewish South Africans, the letter drew an explicit analogy between apartheid and current Israeli policies. Mark Mathabane and Nelson Mandela have also pointed out the relevance of the South African experience."

His edit note reads "Ozinsky and Kasrils do not consider themselves to be Jewish nor did they do anything particularly heroic)"

Kuratowski's Ghost may not agree with Tutu's description of Ozinsky and Kasrils but that doesn't give him the right to alter Tutu's words to something Kuratoski's Ghost can agree with. Deliberately falsifying a quotation is vandalism.According to Misplaced Pages:Vandalism, "Sneaky vandalism" is

"Vandalism which is harder to spot. Adding misinformation, changing dates or making other sensible-appearing substitutions and typos."

The deliberate misquotation has been reverted. I would like a neutral admin to investigate KG's action and act appropriately. Homey 14:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Reviewing the edit history, I think KG just made a mistake, and forgot he was dealing with a quotation. He only edited it once, and did not revert his error when it was corrected. Please WP:AGF.--Pharos 17:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Spamming of talk pages

RK is spamming talk pages trying to get people to stop an article that he created from being delete. Some examples are: --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 14:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll look into it immediately.--File Éireann 14:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Continuing mess

The dispute on Collapse of the World Trade Center and the talk page there which led to MONGO's block of Pokipsy76, ostensibly for "vandalism", has continued to degenerate into increasing incivility and personal attacks by all sides... followed by MONGO blocking SkeenaR and CB Brooklyn for those personal attacks. Both users have objected to this given MONGO's involvement in the dispute and one attempted to bring those objections here with IP edits while blocked. MONGO has reverted those edits and the situation continues to deteriorate.

I have added these issues to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/MONGO and would request that people comment there rather than continuing to revert war on this page. --CBD 16:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I fear you may dig yourself into a hole by wheel warring with people.--MONGO 16:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I call your attention to , .--MONGO 16:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:NPA violations by User:NTK against User:RK

Would some other people care to take a look at what's going on at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shefa Network please? I've removed several of User:NTK's incendiary comments regarding User:RK from the AfD discussion, and left a note for him on his talk page indicating that the comments are wholly inappropriate. Ignoring my comments, he has restored his remarks, and left a note for me on the AfD talkpage telling me that my actions are inappropriate. I have no dog in this fight, which is clearly a result of some background conflict between RK and NTK, and would appreciate input from others before proceding. Tomer 17:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the comment regarding personal attack parol because they have no relavence to the deletion debate and there was no personal attack. However i have left the comments about canvassing for votes in as they are relavent and the closing admin needs to see them. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 19:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to the "canvassing" bit, although the ArbCom stuff was repeated, in part, in that discussion as well, which is why I removed it. Allusions to the ArbCom parole are also made in NTK's vote, which is what made me say that it's clearly a result of some background conflict between RK and NTK. The comment we've both now removed from the AfD page has been resurrected by NTK again on the AfD talkpage, further congealing my opinion that NTK is on some kind of crusade against RK, not simply critical of the article, which he barely mentions anywhere. Tomer 22:27, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Pat8722

I have blocked Pat8722 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) for edit warring and disruption. Please review, as I have some history with the user, but I believe the block to be in the best interests of the encyclopedia to stop a brewing edit war. User has a history of claiming that the 3RR "entitles" him to three reverts per day, see the first section on my user talk page. It is my opinion that the user needs to be asked, by multiple users, to stop edit warring, as I have repeatedly attempted to clarify the 3RR to him, to no avail. If this behavior continues, I fear a much longer block may be necessary. —BorgHunter (talk) 19:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I was reluctantly participating in the edit war with Pat8722 that BorgHunter references above, though I made several attempts to get Pat8722 to discuss the changes on the talk page of the relevant article before Pat8722 finally decided to respond to my posts there. This was my first interaction with Pat8722, but I believe that BorgHunter's block was justified. In the course of my interaction with Pat8722, I came across a user conduct Rfc, located here. I think the comments there support BorgHunter's prognosis, unfortunately. - · j·e·r·s·y·k·o talk · 20:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Emails I have received from User:Molobo

Just for completenness's sake. I don't speak Polish, so I'd appreciate some translations of the little niceities he threw in

1. As if this is going to stop me from pointing out nationalist edits against Poles. You seriously believe your little cenzorship will help in this nationalist crusade ? Hitled didn't got us, neither will biased editors on Wiki. Cheers ! Polacy nigdy siÄ™ nie poddajÄ…. PamiÄ™taj o tym.
2. How amusing, you even don't let me defend yourself. Not to worry though, I lived in such system before 1989, I guess you would fit in nicely with those that enslaved us.
3. I shall contribute to defence against this German nationalism in any other means possible. Deletion of information about Wehrmacht war crimes or persecution of Poles in Prussia shows how biased Misplaced Pages has become by being dominated by members of some national groups do to their numerical advantage.
4. I am sure your move will be supported. I am also certain many Wikifriends will be brought by it, by pure coincidence.

Sounds like some curious threats, to me. Oh, and by the way, Molobo, I have added you to my spam filter, so I won't be seeing any more of your nice little emails, so don't bother sending me any more. User:Zoe| 20:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Rdos again

OK, I have done my best to get Rdos (talk · contribs) to stop promoting his theory via Misplaced Pages, but he seems determined. Having removed the content, removed his reposting of the content, removed the reposting of the content on his Talk page, blacklisted his links which he was posting to every discussion on the issue - now he's using the article histories to promote it. this version of his Talk shows what I mean. I've issued a warning about disruption, I think if there's any more of this nonsense it should be No More Mr. Nice Guy. Just zis Guy you know? 20:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I fully endorse any blocks needed to make him listen. User:Zoe| 20:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Was Kelly Martin block of MONGO correct?

Block was for a brief discussion on Gmaxwell's talk page. This block looks like a total overraction, please tell me if Im missing something. Do these admins have a history of conflict? Hort Graz 20:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I was blocked too for the same fact, but it was a symbolic punishment: just 15 minutes.--Pokipsy76 20:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds a bit like a "love-tap" block. I got that type of block for vandalizing User:Sceptre's vandalism page. Netscott 20:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

MONGO commented again on Gmaxwells page after the block, should he be blocked again? Where are you Kelly? Hort Graz 21:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) While I generally detest applications of WP:IAR this is one which I don't object to. I would assume that Kelly meant it as something of a 'wake up call' or 'hey stop it!' with the (largely insignificant) block included as a form of 'exclamation point' to demonstrate the seriousness of the issue. There is definitely a need for greater deliberation and less hostility (more light, less heat) in this situation so perhaps it will do some good. --CBD 21:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

MONGO and Gmaxwell were discussing on the talk page. He got blocked for doing what you say he should be doing. Hort Graz 21:37, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

MONGO and Pokipsy76 were arguing offensively with one another on Greg's talk page. We do NOT encourage people to engage in flame wars on the talk page of a third party. My block was intended as a "tap on the shoulder", to get his attention and underscore the message that flamewarring on third party talk pages is not acceptable. MONGO's reaction to it tells me that he is in dire need of an attitude adjustment, however, and I think he should consider either (a) a wikibreak or (b) resigning his adminship. Kelly Martin (talk) 22:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Scribe85

Apparently, Scribe85 (talk · contribs) doesn't like to communicate. His edits get reverted on a regular basis (For example, he changes dates and generally doesn't conform to any MOS guidelines - but he's done more). First he repeatedly blanked a talk page filled with warnings and when he finally archived as instructed, he put it on a page called "Useless Crap". I know stubborness or newbie-ness isn't a blockable offense, but it doesn't look like this user is going to conform to Misplaced Pages policy or even try to remain civil. What should I/we do? - Mgm| 21:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

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