Talk:Kenji Miyazawa: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 14:18, 6 June 2014 edit126.0.96.220 (talk) →"Nationalist"?← Previous edit		Revision as of 14:40, 6 June 2014 edit undo126.0.96.220 (talk) →"Nationalist"?Next edit →
Line 21:		Line 21:
	:Again, per ]: please provide a source that actually supports the claim you are trying to add to the article. ] (]) 14:14, 6 June 2014 (UTC)		:Again, per ]: please provide a source that actually supports the claim you are trying to add to the article. ] (]) 14:14, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
	:Also, since I'm arguing that "he was a nationalist" is a minority view and so it is inappropriate to make this claim per ] and ], I would draw your attention to ]: ''Reliably published tertiary sources can be helpful in providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources, and may be helpful in evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other''. I wonder if you can find a reliably published encyclopedia or similar whose article on Miyazawa Kenji states "Miyazawa Kenji was a nationalist"? ] (]) 14:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)		:Also, since I'm arguing that "he was a nationalist" is a minority view and so it is inappropriate to make this claim per ] and ], I would draw your attention to ]: ''Reliably published tertiary sources can be helpful in providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources, and may be helpful in evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other''. I wonder if you can find a reliably published encyclopedia or similar whose article on Miyazawa Kenji states "Miyazawa Kenji was a nationalist"? ] (]) 14:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

			::It turns out not only ] but ] is also on my side here. This claim was unilaterally and ] added to the article by Catflap08 in January, challenged by another user (not me) in April before being re-added again, without justification, by Catflap08. Since the default position should be "leave it out", I'm going to remove the claim again, and if Catflap08 attempts to re-add it without discussing here, I will take it as an indication that he/she is unwilling to use the talk page and our dispute will need to go to ] or ]. ] (]) 14:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:40, 6 June 2014

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Children's literature Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Children's literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Children's literature on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Children's literatureWikipedia:WikiProject Children's literatureTemplate:WikiProject Children's literaturechildren and young adult literature

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tasks you can do:

Here are some open tasks for WikiProject Children's literature, an attempt to create and standardize articles related to children's literature. Feel free to help with any of the following tasks.

Add {{Portal|Children's literature}} to the See also section of related articles.
Tag the talk pages of related articles with {{WikiProject Children's literature}}
Join WikiProject Children's literature and list yourself as a Participant in the project.
Cleanup: A cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category, the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.
Deletion discussions: listed at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature
Notability: Articles with notability concerns, listed at WikiProject Notability
Rate the Unassessed articles in the Children's literature WikiProject.
References: Add references to Unreferenced BLPs.
Requested articles: Create a requested article on literature
Stubs: Improve a stub-class article

edit

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Japan High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project, participate in relevant discussions, and see lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 11:43, December 26, 2024 (JST, Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Japan to do list:

Peer review: None
A-class review: None

Featured content candidates –

Articles: None
Pictures: None
Lists: None

Good article nominations: Vinland Saga (TV series), Godzilla Minus One
Add requested images to articles that need them.
Pages for Deletion: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
Improve and expand Japan-related stubs.
Create some requested articles.
Help translate an article from the Japanese Misplaced Pages into English.
Assess unassessed articles

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Constructed languages: Esperanto Low‑importance

	Constructed languages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Constructed languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of constructed languages on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Constructed languagesWikipedia:WikiProject Constructed languagesTemplate:WikiProject Constructed languagesconstructed language
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Esperanto task force.

"Nationalist"?

I removed the unqualified claim that he was a "nationalist" from the intro. One of the two sources cited was a 2006 PhD dissertation that was about about a religious and quasi-political ideology with which he was affiliated. The problem is that even though that source appears to be, in its brief coverage of the subject of this article, directly associating Kenji's politics with those of his co-religionists, it also specifies that hardly any other reliable sources make this connection. This means that the source is not sufficient for the claim that "Kenji Miyazawa was a nationalist"; it is sufficient for the statement "A minority of scholars have attributed nationalistic leanings to Miyazawa". The view is WP:FRINGE. I don't mean "fringe" in a derogatory sense. I just mean it is a view that is "not widely held among the academic community yet". Kenji scholars can duke this issue out in journal articles and scholarly books. If at some point the scholarly consensus becomes "Kenji was a nationalist" (i.e., a scholar makes the specific claim that this is the consensus view and is not called out by his/her peers) then we can add this statement to the article. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 13:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Please refrain from deleting referenced sources. He was also a member of Kokuchūkai.--Catflap08 (talk) 13:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

If this is going to elevate I should admit outright that I am this user. I'm editing logged out for reasons.

The reliable sources all state that he was a member of a religious group. I've read numerous books and articles that state he adhered strongly to the religious views of this group. None of them mentioned the politics of the group, or hinted that he himself shared the political views of the group's leaders. The only source that does imply he shared these views also admits openly that this is a minority view.

126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:10, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

(EDIT CONFLICT) Why did you revert me again without trying to discuss here first? WP:BURDEN says that the burden is on the party wishing to add information to the article that to find source that specifically support said information. I provided a coherent argument that your sources do not support your claim but in fact contradict your claim. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:14, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Follow the procedure so far you deletion is nothing else than a private opinion. --Catflap08 (talk) 14:12, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Again, per WP:BURDEN: please provide a source that actually supports the claim you are trying to add to the article. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:14, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Also, since I'm arguing that "he was a nationalist" is a minority view and so it is inappropriate to make this claim per WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT, I would draw your attention to WP:TERTIARY: Reliably published tertiary sources can be helpful in providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources, and may be helpful in evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other. I wonder if you can find a reliably published encyclopedia or similar whose article on Miyazawa Kenji states "Miyazawa Kenji was a nationalist"? 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

It turns out not only WP:BURDEN but WP:BRD is also on my side here. This claim was unilaterally and boldly added to the article by Catflap08 in January, challenged by another user (not me) in April before being re-added again, without justification, by Catflap08. Since the default position should be "leave it out", I'm going to remove the claim again, and if Catflap08 attempts to re-add it without discussing here, I will take it as an indication that he/she is unwilling to use the talk page and our dispute will need to go to WP:FTN or WP:ANEW. 126.0.96.220 (talk) 14:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Categories: