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Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/ChildofMidnight

Arthur, do I remember correctly that you had it out with ChildofMidnight once or twice? Either way, you are mentioned at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/ChildofMidnight, about one of CoM's blocked socks (Fortheloveofbacon), who has significant overlap with a current user. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:24, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I can't say I remember CoM, but I think I remember bacon. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:28, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Technically, that comment was about my article, not me. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Sure, but that kind of makes you sound like Mrs. Drmies. And typically, when she starts a sentence with "technically", I already disagree. Happy days, Drmies (talk) 17:49, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

why????

Thank you for deleting my posts I didnt know they bothered you i didnt know wikipedia was very territorial — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexcnc13 (talk • contribs) 04:43, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

The events you mentioned are not notable enough to justify including them in the general articles on the years which you edited. JRSpriggs (talk) 08:59, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Government debt solution - chicago plan

Arthur, the Chicago plan is the most reasonable and elegant solution of the national debt issue. It's a pity that your incompetence in this area makes you to remove it from the page. On the same token one can remove a math theory just because they don't understand it. But editing wiki is your job, so its up to you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.255.233.84 (talk • contribs) 09:25, May 29, 2014‎

It's not a "solution" (IMO), and not relevant to that article (clearly), and not yet sourced to a reliable source — Arthur Rubin (talk) 10:43, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I looked at the reverted text, and my brain was mush after the 2nd paragraph. I agree with AR's edit summary that it read like gibberish. That said, the proper place for discussing this is the article talk page, so others can weight in also. Then again, any ed who refers to another's alleged "incompetence" doesn't really earn much credibility in my eyes. See WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL, and especially see WP:BOOMERANG NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Read again what you have written. If alleged incompetence doesn't earn credibility, what ed with alleged gibberish does? If your brain is much after an astronomy bit does it mean that heliocentrism is gibberish? The reverted text mainly reiterates the section called 'The transformation' from the 'Chicago Plan Revisited' wiki page and should be well understood by an economist. This is more than relevant here, as the side effect of the proposed monetary reform is elimination of national debt which this article is about. Unclear description for wide public? Maybe. Gibberish and irrelevant? No way. I am not going to become an editor and spend time re-writing or further discussing this, you must be right re the wiki guidelines, but IMO thought provoking 'gibberish' is better than perfect nothing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.255.233.81 (talk • contribs) 09:45, May 30, 2014‎

In reply to I am not going to become an editor and spend time re-writing or further discussing this - ok NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:05, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to vote on an article

hello. since you are an editor of the article Ammar ibn Yasir, would you be interested in voting for it to make it a featured article or not? thank you for your time Grandia01 (talk) 12:58, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

prod of 2719

I removed a prod on 2719 thinking the editor had either misunderstood the lead or was deliberately being obtuse. I missed the significance of the ellipsis after "it says it's the largest known odd number". I've now just seen who put the prod there so I feel a bit sheepish but I actually still think prod was too abrupt. I have no difficulty at all with a merge to 2000 (number) but we should keep the nugget that is is probably the largest such number (extraordinary to my mind), not merely the largest known. Also, of course and importantly, the references. We should keep a redirect. Now, I (we) could just go ahead and do that but seeing as you've raised the matter here, I'll just lie low for the time being. Thincat (talk) 17:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

The problem with a straight merge is that there is too much material for a line item, and not enough credible material for an article. We have to decide how much material is credible and noteworthy. I'll take a stab at it, though. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:52, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

I have added a bit more and it is still not the longest item on a number. This article is an absolute shocker with no references at all (until 2719!). I never followed what was happening back when these multimerges were going on. Were the original articles referenced and those got lost or were they never referenced in the first place? Thincat (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

@Thincat: I believe most of them weren't original articles at all, but most number articles are inadequately referenced. On the other hand, saying that 412 is even shouldn't require a reference. Exactly where the boundaries of WP:CALC fall for mathematical properties is the subject of some debate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Chiefland Florida site

Hi, I live near Levy County and have an update.. Duke Energy bought Progress Energy. They are decommissioning the nuke plant in Citrus County and have scrapped plans for the two plants in Levy County. I'm sure Chiefland was planning on benefiting from the Levy plants and it's mentioned in your article. I'm sure you can find references and update the Chiefland article fairly easily. Thanks for all you do. Sjry (talk) 06:24, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

L.A. events on June 21 and July 6

Upcoming L.A. events: Unforgetting L.A. edit-a-thon (Saturday, June 21, 12-5pm) and Wiknic (Sunday, July 6, ~9:30am-4pm)

File:356 S Mission.jpgGallery at 356 S. Mission Rd.Get hungry for the Wiknic! Dear fellow Wikipedian, The L.A. Misplaced Pages community has two exciting events coming up in the next few weeks: an edit-a-thon sponsored by the online magazine East of Borneo, and the fourth annual Los Angeles Wiknic! The East of Borneo event is an edit-a-thon that aims to build a better history of art in Southern California. This next chapter of their Unforgetting L.A. series will take place on Saturday, June 21, 2014 from 12pm to 5pm at 356 S. Mission Rd. (map). Beginners welcome! Please RSVP here if you plan to attend. For more info, see eastofborneo.org/unforgetting. The Wiknic is a part of the nationwide Great American Wiknic. We'll be grilling, getting to know each other better, and building the L.A. Misplaced Pages community! The event is tentatively planned for Pan-Pacific Park (map) and will be held on Sunday, July 6, 2014 from 9:30am to 4pm or so. Please RSVP and volunteer to bring food or drinks if possible! I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:59, 11 June 2014 (UTC) To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

2719, again

I reverted your (in effect) deletion of the article. I was too brusque and rude about it; I now am seeing that you indeed looked around to see if it was likely to be notable. I would still like to see an AFD process undergone in order to delete the article; regardless of that process, I erred in my behavior and would like to apologize. Thank you. Red Slash 22:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

@Red Slash: I was wrong in proposing deletion; however, all that should be in the article is in 2000 (number)#2719, per Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Numbers convention. The rest of the ${\displaystyle ax^{2}+by^{2}+cz^{2}+dw^{2}}$ discussion should be at Ramanujan, or at some other article on quadratic forms, not the article for any specific integer. In fact, much of it is at Ramanujan's ternary quadratic form . — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:13, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Reversion of "system" page

Arthur

Why remove all the improvements I made at the weekend? This has reintroduced errors and ambiguities. E.g. not all systems are activity systems (as some contributors have assumed). E.g. it is untrue that every system (e.g. the internet, or IBM) is bounded in space. E.g. "components" are probably better regarded as a subtype of "element".

And why say the source quoted is unreliable? It is backed up by detail research and references, and more reliable than some of the other sources.

The result of reverting is that my web site defines a system better than Misplaced Pages.

Kind regards Graham — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.22.80 (talk) 11:35, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Systems are bounded spatially. For example, the Internet is confined to the surface of the Earth. JRSpriggs (talk) 11:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

No. The internet can involve radio transmissions that are not confined to the surface of the earth, but that is irrelevant here. "Bounded spatially" does not mean limited in terms of geographic locations you might find it in. It means the system is separable from its environment by a boundary that is definable in space. Physical systems may be bounded. A clock is bounded. But there is no 3-dimensional boundary surrounding IBM, the US government, the Yankee baseball team, the justice system, or Dewey Decimal Classification System, or any system that is conceptual or logical. The notion that a system has a boundary is primarily and generally a logical one. If the Misplaced Pages entry does not make that clear then it will remain too naïve for me to refer students to.

Compare the pre-revision version with the last one I posted yesterday, I believe the latter is more accurate and clearly expressed on several points, not only the one above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.22.80 (talk) 14:53, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

It might be more accurate, but it's a lot of information with no credible (or reliable) source. However, I don't think "systems" like IBM really can be treated under systems theory, so it may be counterproductive to extend the definition of "system". — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:32, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Please read "EA as applied system theory" on the home page at avancier.co.uk for a short overview of how businesses and business systems have been treated as systems - exactly in line with system theory - since the 1970s.

The current page is wrong on some points and misleading on others. I inserted a reference to a reputable paper on my web site, not wanting to take personal credit, but I have been working with systems in theory and in practice, and teaching systems analysis and design since 1980, so if referring to me personally is more "reliable", then we can do that. Or else, we can remove any reference to me or my web site. I don't care about the reference as much as improving what looks like a naïve and inadequate page at the moment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.22.80 (talk) 18:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Arthur - I await your explanation of why you have reverted to an inferior version of the page - how to improve it in some or all ways I proposed - and what you will count as a "reliable source" - Graham — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.22.80 (talk) 10:16, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS which instantiates WP:VERIFY. My understanding is that a source may be reliable if it is a published, reviewed, paper, by an organization with a reputation for accuracy (and not an advertisement, editorial, or press release); or published by a recognized expert in the field without a reputation for inaccuracy (but not about his own work, about living people other than himself, or about controversial topics). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:23, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

avancier.co.uk is a commercial site, and the description of "system" you quote is part of an advertisement for what they do. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:24, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Reply via your message to me

Um dude... I don't know who you think you are saying that I'm being paid by rossi because I just created a new account. I actually had a previous account, but forgot my username and decided to make a new one using the username that I now use for all we sites (see escapist magazine, mtgsalvation.com, @gmail, etc.), I am certain that I *will* get around to editing other articles as I see omitted sections, or errors. I am an Engineering Geologist and Ecologist by trade, and have a healthy amount of scepticism about rossi and cold fusion which I have been following for several years. I am a scientist, and believe in the scientific method. I think that the way that cold fusion was 'debunked' and then subsequently persecuted bears some similarities to scientific breakthroughs of the past (geocentricity, plate tectonics, etc).

By careful study of relevant information (even non peer reviewed stuff, since thats the only place that the good scientists can go these days in this field) I have come to the conclusion that the reality of the effect is undeniable and that while a healthy amount of doubt is fine, *blind* outright denial is not. (note that *blind* here refers to without reading the relevant source material, a thoroughly unscientific and unacceptable stance.

SO yes, I will post on the Talk page, and I do have a point of view. However I do not hold that wikipedia is at fault for any of this, it is however the fault of the wider scientific community, which its denial of CF has meant that blind skeptics have far more peer reviewed and mainstream sources than do supporters or scientists in the field.Insertcleverphrasehere (talk) 05:26, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

@Insertcleverphrasehere, I have no doubt that Fleischmann and Pons found something, even though even they could not replicate their result. It could have been increased fusion in adsorbed deuterium on newly forged platinum, but it could have just been energy of adsorbtion. I have no doubt that Rossi has not found something, or some of his demonstrations would have had the input power monitored. We all know the proper way to test a "black box" energy producing device; have third-party testers bring their own equipment with their own power supply. Even then, it would not be impossible for the "black box" to draw power from the external test equipment, but it would be difficult. (As we're talking about a "black box", even if he had found something, it would be difficult to determine whether it was a nuclear reaction or a superbattery, but either would be of interest.) There are enough — well, mad scientists — who would be willing and able to perform the appropriate tests. (I've met one.)

I can see your point, that a mad engineer who produces a power source of some sort, without a theory, or with the theory contradicting "known" physics, would be unlikely to be published in peer-reviewed journals. But it is not Misplaced Pages's job to be ahead of reliable sources. Not all CF researchers fall into that category; after all, there is measurable fusion in DT (H₂H₃) at 1,000 atm (100,000 kPa), and theory predicts that, at higher pressures, you could reach break-even, if there were materials that would contain the "gas". — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:32, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

you act like I support him unconditionally, I do not. your comments about a theory are not helpful, it is not necessary to have a theory to make a working device... just look at high temperature superconductivity technology. I am not going to argue about why I think it is more likely that Rossi has something than that he does not, its my opinion that i have arrived at after careful weight of the evidence.Insertcleverphrasehere (talk) 08:39, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I suggest checking out the following article, while very slightly biased, and I do not agree with all of the points that they try to make, it does provide a fairly intelligent and comprehensive view on the Rossi and other LENR devices. I'd be curious to know what your opinion is of it. http://lenrftw.net/are_lenr_devices_real.html#.U51n5nmhPVIInsertcleverphrasehere (talk) 08:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I haven't read all the E-Cat studies carefully, but the ones I've read made no or inadequate efforts to measure the electrical input from "wall sockets", etc. Most of the "counterpoint" seem stronger than the "point" to me; I have read most of the NASA studies, and they all said something along the lines of: This is extremely unlikely, but the gain if it worked is so great that the net benefit is reasonable, as far as one can analyze improbable outcomes with great gains. (I wish NASA would put more effort into the near-Earth asteroid watch. There, although we know it's improbable at any given time, we (believe, anyway, although some would say "know") that it has happened a number of times over the past billion years.) Although I cannot find enough information for a Misplaced Pages comment, NASA and JPL (where I did work for a time) were known for experimenting with unusual technologies in the slim hope of producing a scientific breakthrough. The projects were known as "purple pigeons" (as opposed to "white rats", I believe.) With the current political climate, I doubt that they could do such a thing now except in a director's "discretionary fund". Much of the rest of the paper you pointed me to is trying to analyze the chance of something being accurate based only on the promoter's (and would-be promoters') statements. The paper's interpretation of why Rossi's previous company went under is plausible, but not proven. It's also plausible (but not proven) that Rossi was and is a con-man. The paper also avoids noting that the isotopic composition of the alleged transmutation matches naturally occurring isotopic composition, which seems unlikely for a nuclear reaction. Although I don't remember reading the Toyota paper, transmuting Cs to Pr without producing measurable amounts of Ba, La, or Ce seems unlikely without using particle beams of B or heavier, especially considering the increased stability of atoms with an even number of protons (or neutrons). But I'm not sure of the isotopic stability regions near there, so it might conceivably be plausible. In other words, it's "magic", rather than "technology". (And I know Clarke's 3rd law and its converse.)

Little of this should be on Misplaced Pages, but let me point out that I know (at least to the point that I'm able and willing to talk to them personally) one "mad scientist" (he has a prototype "warm fusion" reactor, but it doesn't look as if it will reach break-even) and two science fiction writers who know "mad scientists", who would almost certainly be willing and able to develop a test protocol which would determine that the E-Cat either: (1) had some reaction producing more energy than a chemical reaction would; (2) Have a battery with energy storage density considerably greater than presently known or believed to be possible; or (3) have the capacity to draw power from nearby, but not connected, electrical equipment. (If the 3rd-party test equipment uses power, it is not a "violation" of the laws of physics for the E-Cat to draw on that power, even if the equipment was not designed to have its power tapped.) Furthermore, the "mad scientist" is apparently working with the military, and the science fiction writers have enough fans, that, if this protocol determined the E-Cat worked, there would be little doubt that it actually worked. Since Rossi has not done even what Randi suggested as part of a protocol, one would have to presume he doesn't want skeptical people to believe his process works.

— Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:47, 20 June 2014 (UTC)