Revision as of 09:00, 25 September 2004

This list is presented as a guide to honest editors. Many of these issues have been discussed at some length but attempts to address them have been met with edit wars. The article as it presently stands is based almost entirely on the output of the John Train Salon, a grouping of operatives funded in particular by Richard Mellon Scaife, otherwise known for his sponsorship of the slander factory against U.S. President Bill Clinton. The two individuals who made a career of sorts out of attacking LaRouche are Dennis King and Chip Berlet.

I am working to update this, and make it reflect the fact that the LaRouche article has been split into three overlapping sections. Much of the same POV speculation and spin-doctoring by Adam and Andy also infects LaRouche-related articles such as National Caucus of Labor Committees, Schiller Institute, Helga Zepp-LaRouche, and Synarchism.

I have moved the closed issues to archive1.--Herschelkrustofsky 13:20, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Here is the unreworked edition of this page. Martin 20:21, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Content relating to Jews, Judaism, Zionism, anti-Zionism, and anti-Semitism, has been moved to Talk:Lyndon LaRouche/Jewish issues

The following issues remain unresolved.

From the "Political Views" page

General POV characterizations of LaRouche

• "Lyndon LaRouche began his political career as a Marxist, and his political ideas retain certain characteristics of Marxism and Leninism, albeit in a very incoherent form." This is strictly Adam's personal opinion. Adam regards anyone who does not endorse Adam Smith as a Marxist/Leninist. This opinion is not even widely shared, let alone something which ought to be presented as fact.

• "Although LaRouche is frequently described as a fascist, his politics might better be described as a mutated form of Trotskyism, combined with his elaborate conspiracy theory and based on attacking individuals and groups rather than capitalists as a class." More of the same. Plus, the only reason that LaRouche is frequently described as a fascist, is precisely the same reason that Bill Clinton is described as a rapist: because a bunch of goons on the payroll of Richard Mellon Scaife managed to get their views into print. If this article were even slightly honest, this fact would be acknowledged.

A Leninist view of imperialism?

• "He still expounds a basically Leninist view of imperialism." This is Adam's POV, as seen in Adam's edits of neocolonialism, where he asserts that only leftists believe it exists. LaRouche expounds FDR's view of imperialism, which is also John Quincy Adams' view of imperialism.

Are LaRouche's economic ideas similar to those of Franco and Salazar

• "Despite LaRouche's rhetorical skill in presenting them as revolutionary, LaRouche's economic ideas are hardly original: they are similar to the policies of Germany under Bismarck and the statism of Spain under Franco and Portugal under Salazar."

This is less obviously ridiculous than Adam's original formulation, but no less false. The models for LaRouche are Lincoln and FDR. That's what he says, that's what he means, end of story. -- Herschel

Nelson Rockefeller

• "In the 1960s and 1970s, LaRouche was particularly focussed on the supposed danger posed by liberal Republicans such as Nelson Rockefeller believing that he was attempting to rescue international capitalism through aid schemes and, domestically, through antipoverty programs as a means of coopting the working class and Black underclass." This is incorrect; LaRouche did not attack Rockefeller for "aid schemes" and "antipoverty programs," but rather for Schachtian schemes to collect debt by imposing forced-labor programs and cutbacks in social services.

LaRouche's opponents

• "The Marxist concept of the ruling class was converted by LaRouche into a conspiracy theory, in which world capitalism was controlled by a secret cabal including the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, Henry Kissinger, the Council on Foreign Relations and other standard villains of the extreme right, many though not all of them Jewish." This is a crock. The term "secret cabal" is POV -- LaRouche has never asserted that there was anything secret about his opponents. Their views and activities are a matter of public record. Likewise "standard villains of the extreme right" -- those individuals and groups have been criticized from all over the political spectrum. Adam is insinuating that LaRouche is a rightist, since Adam cannot demonstrate that he is one. And last but not least, "many though not all of them Jewish" -- more sleazy insinuation, aimed at creating the impression that LaRouche is an anti-Semite.

Press coverage

• "LaRouche claims that there is also a conspiracy by the "Establishment" and the press it allegedly controls to deny him coverage and prevent his views becoming known." This is inaccurate; LaRouche cites the Rosenfeld op-ed as evidence that there are those in the press cartels that seek to deny him truthful coverage. The existence of the John Train Salon illustrates that some folks are eager to provide LaRouche with plenty of misleading coverage, as are Adam and Andy, the principle authors of the Misplaced Pages articles.

Pro-nuclear leftists?

• "He calls for greater federal investment in science and technology, particularly the space program and nuclear energy (with a special emphasis on nuclear fusion.) Most of these are staples of both the traditional left and the modern anti-globalization movement." Give me a break! Name just one example where "the traditional left and the modern anti-globalization movement" called for nuclear energy or increased NASA funding.

Indiscriminate use of the term "Fascist"?

• "LaRouche himself frequently describes his enemies indiscriminately as fascists or proto-fascists." Sleazy POV. LaRouche has never used the terms "fascist" or "proto-fascist" indiscriminately.

From the biography page

• "At about this time LaRouche's attacks on the pro-Soviet U.S. Communist Party ceased, and LaRouche publications began to run pro-Soviet articles." First of all, are you sure that you want to put this in the section where you attempt to defend the bogus argument that LaRouche switched from left to right? The fact is, LaRouche publications were generally anti-Soviet during the 80s, but would acknowledge anything constructive in the USSR, such as some of their science programs, particularly with regard to fusion energy. The more you guys try to squeeze LaRouche into some sort of cartoonish "right-wing" or "left-wing" caricature, the more your propaganda will develop these sorts of paradoxes.

Club of Life

• "The group also adopted a position against abortion and ran a front group named "Club of Life" on the issue." The Club of Life was formed in response to attacks on LaRouche by the anti-abortion movement (which is inconvenient for Andy, who is attempting to lump LaRouche in with various "right-wing" causes). LaRouche has consistently refused to take a stand one way or the other on abortion (Andy, your memory must be failing, because you yourself put a link on one of the archived talk pages to a video clip from the Democratic Convention, where an enraged Baby Boomer was demanding that a member of the LaRouche Youth Movement take a position pro or con on abortion, which the youngster was refusing to do.) LaRouche has, however, attacked the philosophy of Malthusianism, and has attacked the right-to-lifers for their hypocritical refusal to fight euthanasia and the genocide being carried out against the Third World. The fact is, Andy, LaRouche has never sucked up to anyone in an attempt to gain support; he has never modified his own views in an attempt to gain support; he didn't modify his views to stay out of jail, although he was given that opportunity; your POV is all wet.

See Weed Harper 14:59, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

So then he criticises the pro-Lifers for not going far enough? But he doesn't criticise them for opposing abortion? AndyL 15:32, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Andy, it's very simple. LaRouche has made it clear that he considers abortion a "hot button" issue, and he detests the mentality that reduces politics to such issues. He has never taken a position either for or against, because it would be simple-minded to do so. You are eager to classify him as pro-abortion, because it suits your POV agenda of trying defend the Blum-Montgomery theory that LaRouche went from being an orthodox leftist to being an orthodox rightist. The truth of the matter is, LaRouche has always been thoroughly unorthodox. --Herschelkrustofsky 20:10, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Do you deny that the National Right ot Life Committee gave LaRouche a score of 75%? AndyL 21:46, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

LaRouche vs. Cheney

• "He also claims to be leading a campaign, begun in October 2002 (http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2002/020922_cheney_must_resign.html), to have Dick Cheney dumped from the Republican ticket. Like most LaRouche campaigns, this has received little if any notice in the media or among the general public." In fact, there were major attacks on this campaign by the Wall Street Journal and the National Review, which Andy well knows because he attempted to downplay their significance over at Talk:Leo Strauss. As far as the general public is concerned, did Andy travel down to the U.S. and take a poll? Over 4 million pamplets, and a larger number of leaflets, on the question of Cheney and the Straussian Chickenhawks were distributed on the streets of the U.S. And there was nothing the media cartels could do to stop it. (While we are on the subject of the National Review, I note that Andy has taken to quoting Gregory Rose. Rose may not be the most reliable source -- following his period of cohabiting with William F. Buckley, Rose reported, in a private conversation and in all seriousness, that Buckley had sexual relations with his pet spaniel.)

Nazi studies

• "Some ex-NCLC members who left the group at this time say that LaRouche was studying the career of Adolf Hitler and consciously adopting the tactics of the early Nazi Party." An accusation as serious as this cannot responsibly be attributed to dubious, unnamed sources.

So nothing that any ex-NCLC member who wanted to remain anonymous said can be used for the article? john k 17:50, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Under these circumstances, I would say no. It represents a convenient way out, for persons with a desperate need to discredit LaRouche, and no concrete evidence -- although NBC got away with precisely that in the libel suit. Bear in mind, you could probably find an anonymous source to accuse just about any public figure of being Hitlerian, and if you can't find one, you can always say that you did.--Herschelkrustofsky 20:15, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

If you can't quote Ramsey Clark without a big disclaimer, then anonymous sources should be out. I removed that line, and the one below. Weed Harper 06:22, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

User:Adam_Carr reinserted them without comment. --Herschelkrustofsky 14:34, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• "In the 1970s LaRouche developed an intense interest in fascism, and began to adopt some of its slogans and practices, while maintaining (as he still does) an outward stance of anti-fascism."

LaRouche developed an intense interest in preventing fascism. What "slogans and practices" does Adam allege that he adopted? -- Herschel

Steered to the right

• "During the 1970s LaRouche steered the NCLC away from the left and towards the extreme right, while retaining some of the slogans and attitudes of the left (as did the founder of fascism, the ex-Socialist Benito Mussolini, and many others since)."

The business about steering toward the extreme right is a myth, and even if it were not, trying to make a comparison to Mussolini would be propagandistic innuendo. -- Herschel

This does seem to be POV, especially the part about Mussolini, which seems to be in there to "prove" that LaRouche is a right winger, rather than to provide information. Certainly connections between NCLC and various far right groups (and also with the Reagan administration) can be discussed, since that is pretty well documented. john k 17:50, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think this is a fair observation. LaRouche did swing from the extreme left to the right.

How so? What policies did he change? --Herschelkrustofsky 15:01, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, he abandoned Marxism for one and moved towards some sort of amalgam of 19th century philosophers. AndyL 16:38, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Since when is philosophy considered "extreme right"? And LaRouche had the "amalgam of philosphers" thing working as a teenager, back in the 30s, although the philosophers were never predominantly 19th century -- his favorite was Gottfried Leibniz. Also, some may consider Marx a 19th century philosopher. -- Herschel

I attributed the "shift to right" theory to Chip Berlet, and removed the POV about Mussolini. Weed Harper 05:47, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The attribution has been removed. --Herschelkrustofsky 13:20, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ku Klux Klan and the Liberty Lobby

12. "In the 1970s also, LaRouche developed connections with the Ku Klux Klan and the Liberty Lobby, a leading extreme right group, both well- known for anti-Semitism."

I dare you to attempt to document this. What are "connections"? This is innuendo. -- Herschel

I agree, this could be made more precise. john k 17:50, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

see

I'm supposed to accept Chip Berlet's opinion as "documentation"? --Herschelkrustofsky 15:07, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

(Herschel quoted from "A Tactical Alliance with the Reactionary Right" from the above linked article and re-asked the same question - removed due to lack of space - follow the link instead. Martin (reworker)

personal corruption

19. "One of the most damning aspects of the trial was the revelation of LaRouche's personal corruption. While lenders were told that LaRouche had no money to repay their loans, he in fact spent US$4.2 million on real estate in Virginia and on "improvements" to his 200-acre Leesburg estate. These included a swimming pool and horse riding ring."

Is this false, or do you think it's POV? john k 17:50, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

(time passes)

So what's wrong with this?

Nothing, other than the fact that it ain't so.

Are the court transcripts online?AndyL 16:38, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Is there any source at all for this statement? It looks bogus to me. --Peter_Abelard@ausi.com

developing in the fifties

• "LaRouche did not develop his current political and economic ideas in the 1950s or '60s: until at least 1969 he was a Trotskyist, although an increasingly unorthodox one."

Adam is a mind-reader? -- Herschel

LaRouche was a Trotskyist until the late-1960s, he then "discovered" Rosa Luxermburg's writings on capitalism and adopted them and started making his own revisions. I suggest you read some of LaRouche's own writings from the period though I doubt the "LaRouche movement" will make them available to you.

I have LaRouche's writings from that period. Do you? Or do you rely on Chip Berlet's characterizations? --Herschelkrustofsky 15:01, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I did look through a text by Lyn Marcus called "Dialectical Economics" a few years ago. I also have a copy of Rosa Luxemburg's "Accumulation of Capital" published by LaRouche with an introduction by him. I've also read what varioius contemporaries of LaRouche in the SWP say about him. AndyL 16:38, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

See, for example,

• Sex Maniac & Demagogue by Clara Fraser, a former colleague of LaRouche in his Trotskyist days - reproduced in the second part of this email to the Marxmail e-list.
• True History of Lyn Marcus (Lyndon LaRouche) and the Labor Committees1975 article published by the International Workers Party whose members joined LaRouche's NCLC for a period in the early 1970s.

Tim Wohlforth has also written two books which I haven't read but which may be useful The Prophet's Children: Travels on the American Left ISBN: 1573922854 and On the Edge: Political Cults Right and Left ISBN: 0765606399 The latter has a section on LaRouche and should be of interest given Wohlforth's association with LaRouche in the 1960s. AndyL 16:51, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Land bridge

• "Although the expression "Eurasian Land-Bridge," for example, has been used to refer to the proposed Asian Highway, there is no evidence that LaRouche has ever had anything to do with this project."

Deception -- the Landbrige and Asian Highway are not the same thing, nor has anyone outside of Adam asserted that they were -- combined with deliberate fallacy of composition. -- Herschel

You have yet to provide any independent evidence that the "Eurasian Land-Bridge" as you describe it exists. As I said earlier (see section on this page titled "the Land Bridge") all the articles you cite either do not mention the land bridge at all or cite LaRouche as their source. Despite the fact that you've failed to respond to my comments about the articles you repeat your dubious assertions.

The assertion that the "Asian Highway" is also called the "Eurasian Land-bridge" is yours, not mine. --Herschelkrustofsky 15:01, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You have yet to reply to the points I maike in the "Land-Bridge" section of this page. I have yet to see any evidence outside of the LaRouche movement that this project exists. However, you and the LaRouchites claim that the "Eurasian Land-Bridge" is nicknamed the "New Silk Road" which happens to be the nickname of the "Asian Highway" as it turns out. AndyL 16:38, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Denying accusations

• (regarding charges of anti-Semitism): "LaRouche for his part has denied these accusations, asserting that those who accuse him are part of the oligarchic conspiracy to rule the world."

Nonsense; LaRouche simply asserted that those who accuse him are liars. Adam's propaganda would be more effective if he didn't lay it on so thick. -- Herschel

need more info before I can comment

Does LaRouche promote a "Jewish Conspiracy" theory?

• "The Marxist concept of the ruling class was converted by LaRouche into a gigantic conspiracy theory, in which world capitalism was controlled by a secret cabal including the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, Henry Kissinger, the Council on Foreign Relations and other standard villains of the extreme right, many though not all of them Jewish."

Propagandistic crap. Adam is pulling a little sleight of hand here, trying to lump LaRouche in with the right-wing conspirophiles. In addition, it is not the case that "many" of LaRouche's opponents are Jewish. And, Adam wishes to imply that LaRouche is attacking someone because they are Jewish; this sort of thing trivializes anti-Semitism, by implying that anyone who ever criticized someone with a Jewish name is an anti-Semite. -- Herschel

Reagan relations

• "This followed a concerted campaign by LaRouche to develop close relations with the Reagan Administration, by publishing flattering articles about administration officials in the LaRouche press." -- Herschel

Innuendo; LaRouche publications wrote articles that were both favorable and highly critical of various officials and policies.

Computers are an Enemy of the People?

• "Following his recovery, LaRouche obtained work as a management consultant including, paradoxically for a Marxist, advising companies on how to use computers to maximise efficiency and speed-up production to the detriment of workers." This is ridiculous, sleazy POV.