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Revision as of 13:29, 4 December 2014 editDoc James (talk | contribs)Administrators312,255 edits →Electronic cigarette← Previous edit Revision as of 14:13, 4 December 2014 edit undoYobol (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers15,179 edits →Electronic cigarette: rNext edit →
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::::John has sanctioned QG in the past, under somewhat strained conditions. John has been canvassed by another editor to have another go, having been unable to get the result required at ANI. -] (]) 10:43, 4 December 2014 (UTC) ::::John has sanctioned QG in the past, under somewhat strained conditions. John has been canvassed by another editor to have another go, having been unable to get the result required at ANI. -] (]) 10:43, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
:::::Yup. Likely we need someone neutral / not involved to look at this. John and QG are involved. ] (] · ] · ]) 13:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC) :::::Yup. Likely we need someone neutral / not involved to look at this. John and QG are involved. ] (] · ] · ]) 13:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
:I'm wondering why anyone needs to specifically justify making an edit that adds a good summary of material from a high quality source. That would seem to be the type of behavior we should be encouraging, not questioning. ] (]) 14:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:13, 4 December 2014

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Sourced text was replaced with original research at the Electronic cigarette page

Is the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports reliable for the content? User:LeadSongDog explained it at the Talk:Electronic cigarette page here. Other editors claim the CDC reports are unreliable.

The two sources above were removed from the article. The relevant part of MEDRS is Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Medical and scientific organizations. Read under: "The reliability of these sources range from formal scientific reports, which can be the equal of the best reviews published in medical journals, through public guides and service announcements..."

Can we go back to the version before the original research was reverted back into the article? Trying to remove original research from the article should be easy at the electronic cigarettes article if there were more collaborating.

"While some raised concern that e-cigarette use can be a cause of indoor air pollution, the only clinical study currently published evaluating passive vaping found no adverse effects." Original research ans misleading text.

"A 2014 review found that at the very least, this limited research demonstrates it is transparent that e-cigarette emissions are not simply "harmless water vapor," as is commonly claimed, and can be a cause of indoor air pollution. As of 2014, the only clinical study currently published evaluating the respiratory effects of passive vaping found no adverse effects were detected. A 2014 review found it is safe to presume that their effects on bystanders are minimal in comparison to traditional cigarettes." Sourced text and neutrally written text (that was blindly reverted). See Electronic cigarette#Aerosol.

I removed the original research and replaced it with sources text. I clearly explained it in my edit summary the problems with the article. I removed the POV selected quotes. I expanded the safety section a bit. I replaced original research with sourced text for the second-hand aerosol section. Then an editor blindly reverted back in original research and deleted sourced text. I think we should go back to here before the blind revert was made. I hope editors will help remove the original research from the electronic cigarettes page and help restore the sourced text. Blindly replacing sourced text with original research in a revert is very disruptive. Another editor blindly reverted back in the original research and other problems. QuackGuru (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

The person who is not collaborating is you.--FergusM1970 23:45, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree, I think your collaborative skills could use some significant improvement QG. Before I interacted with you, I actually had a fairly positive opinion about you, but you really do not work collaboratively (and it shows) even on issues of minor importance. The importance of collaboration is one of Misplaced Pages's most emphasized values. I do hope you take some time to reflect on this and work on communicating with other Misplaced Pages editors in a friendlier and more collaborative manner. It is not a sign of weakness to do so and it poses no threat to your integrity or principles to work this way. If anything, I think it will make your experience (and that of others) more pleasant (and it should be) and make your editing more effective. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 07:53, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Canvassing talk page lurkers as well? Nice. To those i'd say that they should join the above discussion at WT:MED#Electronic cigarettes --Kim D. Petersen 21:28, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

There is a discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Medical and scientific organizations for the CDC reports as well. QuackGuru (talk) 02:40, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Ayurveda

I have blocked your account for one week in response to this edit and others which disrupt the editing process there. If you are willing to refrain from making such edits in the future I or any admin may happily reverse the block. This can be accomplished either by pinging me here or by using the {{unblock|your reason here ~~~~}}. I hope that you will see the error of your ways and wait until consensus is achieved in the talk page RfC before making any further edits to the article. Best wishes. --John (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

QuackGuru (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

The talk page RfC is about the tag. It was not about the text. I did previously add the material but this time I made a proposal and I reverted my edit. When I reverted my own edit that shows I am waiting for consensus. Once more, I did not restore the material again when I reverted my last edit. There is a discussion at Talk:Ayurveda#Inclusion of pseudoscience within article body. QuackGuru (talk) 21:53, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Accept reason:

Very well, I accept that you did not intend to be disruptive and that you will not continue to edit war. Please review the restrictions at Talk:Ayurveda#Going forward as you were advised here several days ago before continuing to edit here. John (talk) 23:52, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Note to reviewing admin

The edit QG is highlighting was not one of the ones I blocked for. I see one, two, three attempts to add the material in question to the article, yet I do not see any firm consensus in the talk page discussion that this material belonged there. Three edits in three days is edit warring and is disruptive. Once again, if you can indicate you know what you did wrong and are willing not to repeat the behaviour I am happy for you to be unblocked. --John (talk) 21:59, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I was asked to take a look at this. Normally I'd say this block (and Bladesmulti's) were pretty aggressive, but now I see the article and talk page have been problematic for a while, and John read the riot act to people back in October. At the risk of being accused of being part of the thin blue line, I'm inclined to give pretty broad discretion to admins willing to try to keep a lid on things that are constantly boiling, as long as it's being done evenly and fairly. "Evenly" seems true. I guess my only question about "fairly" is: Was QG aware of this rule about not adding anything to the article without prior consensus? My admittedly quick look shows QG first edited the page well after the riot act was read.
QG, it looks like John is being pretty flexible about unblock conditions. Do I understand right (John) that you'd take a promise not to reinsert anything significant without prior consensus as reason to unblock? Is this something you (QG) are willing to agree to? --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:48, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
I was not aware about a rule about discussing editing first before making them. The talk page RfC is about adding the category pseudoscience. That is a different issue than the text I added. For my last edit I did revert myself and I was waiting for consensus first. I was not going to repeat adding the material back in at that point. When I reverted my last edit that indicates I was agreeing to wait for consensus. I did self-revert and I agree to wait for consensus. QuackGuru (talk) 23:09, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Sanctions

I don't think there is anything that can be done about the rather high handed restrictions and now sanctions John has imposed. Ride them out and start afresh.

For my part, I haven't made any useful contribution to the AV article, except to attempt to hold back the wave of fringe pushing, woo supporting ignorance that resides on that page. It is a terrible shame, but those editors who have decided to not bother because of the silly imposition of restrictions are probably right. True believers have won, the spread of ignorance ratchets onwards. I haven't decided if I will dewatchlist or not. -Roxy the dog™ (resonate) 23:20, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes the best thing you can do is to walk away and let the article deteriorate into a bad condition. With luck it will become so glaringly bad that no reasonable person takes it seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.167.123.150 (talk) 18:20, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with your edits to that page. Please let me know if the issue comes up again. Djcheburashka (talk) 07:41, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Discussion Notification

Hi there Quack, I have started a , if you want to contribute then please do so.Levelledout (talk) 13:38, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Electronic cigarette

Hi again QuackGuru. Can you tell me what you were doing here, and comment specifically on how it matches with the source, with NPOV and finally where you had consensus to add that material. Thanks in advance. --John (talk) 18:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

John Hello, I also re-added this text at least once. There is no consensus to either include or exclude this content, so far as I know. Because this information is covered in a scientific review which itself cites JAMA and BMJ articles specifically on this issue, it seems reasonable to me to include this information unless someone challenges the sources. Here is the copyrighted text from the source, and I assert that the summary of this information seems reasonable.
original text

The tobacco companies address e-cigarette issues as part of their policy agenda. As they did beginning in the 1980s,110,111 they continue to engage in creating and supporting “smokers’ rights” groups, seemingly independent groups that interact with consumers directly on political involvement in support of their agenda.111 Altria and R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company maintain Web sites called Citizens for Tobacco Rights and Transform Tobacco. E-cigarette news and action alerts are featured on the home pages of these websites and include instructions for taking action against bills designed to include e-cigarette use in smoke-free laws. E-cigarette companies engage in similar tactics, using the same political and public relations strategies as the tobacco companies (most notably featuring organized “vapers” like the organized smokers). They also use social media that is tightly integrated with their product marketing campaigns to press their policy agenda.22 These strategies were successfully deployed in Europe to convince the European Parliament to substantially weaken the proposed EU Tobacco Product Directive in October 2013.112

Can you say something helpful about how to reach consensus on what to do with this information, when it seems equally controversial to include and exclude it? Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:16, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps I can but I do need QuackGuru to give some explanation for this edit as it appears to resemble other edits for which he has been blocked in the past. --John (talk) 07:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages does not have a rule against making bold edits. Cardamon (talk) 10:40, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
John has sanctioned QG in the past, under somewhat strained conditions. John has been canvassed by another editor to have another go, having been unable to get the result required at ANI. -Roxy the dog™ (resonate) 10:43, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Yup. Likely we need someone neutral / not involved to look at this. John and QG are involved. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm wondering why anyone needs to specifically justify making an edit that adds a good summary of material from a high quality source. That would seem to be the type of behavior we should be encouraging, not questioning. Yobol (talk) 14:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)