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Revision as of 19:29, 15 July 2006

Why did this article get completely Lithuanized? A matter of national pride or something? //Halibutt 22:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Care to read this ], and stop looking for Polish spirit everywhere?--Lokyz 22:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

It's funny to hear from you asking why this article was Lithuanized. It shoud be asked why it was completly polonized by YOU, in first place. Even Lithuanian town names were given in Polish first, then in Lithuanian (in brackets), as if Polish spelling was main and original. What was that? I don't know if you do it in purpose, or just don't feel your own bias. Encyclopaedia Editing Dude 18:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Right... So a guy who wrote some poems in Lithuanian is automatically a Lithuanian, right? Err... wrong, my dear. Similarly, currently the article suggests Baranowski (as he called himself) was born in Lithuania, even though he was born in the Russian empire to a Polish family. Similarly, the name of Proniewska is reverse-Lithuanized eventhough she most probably did not even speak a word of Lithuanian in her entire life. The name of Sejny is put in its Lithuanian spelling eventhough no Lithuanian name is given its contemporary Polish counterpart in the text, eventhough the Polish names were used back then.

I don't deny he was Lithuanian. But he was a Polish poet in the first place, a fact that you apparently decided to obscure. Fears of Polish spirit anyone? //Halibutt 12:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

"Polish family" - very interesting statement, can you give a proof of that? Or anyone who was born in teh lands of commonewealth autmaticaly is Pole? If he would have been Pole, so why would he learn "peasants" language - Lithuanian. I'd rather say he was born in Lithuanian family, only at the end of his life he chose to be "Polish" because being Lithuanian was not respectable and even desipsable. You should study XIX th century situation in Lithuania and specificaly situations in Schools. (Especially "Litwin" table hanged on a neck for speaking Lithuanian in the school). It is a forced choosing to be Polish. So much of the Polish spirit, and that's why your arguments make some people angry (and that's why Poles aren't very popular in Lithuania until nowadys).

As for Proniewska - you might be right, as for Sejny - don't forget, that at the time there were living a lot of Lithuanians, and bneing bishop Baranauskas held mess and addressed people in Lithuanian. But well, because it is in nowadays Poland it should be written Sejny.

As for Lithuania - the fact, that Lithuania was incorporated into Russian empire does not make it Russia - like the fact that nowadays Poland was divided between Austria and Russia does not make it neither Austria neither Russia.--Lokyz 12:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

And can you point to some reference claiming his family to be Lithuanian? Other than the fact that he started his career as a Polish language poet and it was not until much later that he started using Lithuanian as well..? As to why did he learn it - it's none of my business. I guess as a priest he wanted to adress the people in their own languges, but he might've simply be interested in it. In any way, it seems Lithuanian was not even his mother tongue.

As to your pro personam argument - you too should study the 19th century history of Lithuania. Enough of personal remarks? Fine.

As for Sejny - I don't deny that there were Lithuanians there - and there are ethnic Lithuanians living there even now, which is enough for me to cite the name of that place in both languages. However, it seems like double standards to erase such double naming in case of places that are a part of modern Lithuania. Lithuanian names for Polish towns - sure. Polish names for towns in what is now Lithuania - never. Strange reasoning, don't you think? Especially given the widespread usage of Polish language back then in.

When it comes to Imperial Russia - you are right that he was born in Lithuania in geographical terms. Which however leads us to another inconsistency: note that in most biographical articles on Poles born in those times we do not hide the fact that they were in fact born in Austria, Prussia or Russia. At the same time your current version of the article claims he was born in the Republic of Lithuania (just follow the link!). Plain wrong, if you asked me. //Halibutt 14:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

let me cite polish Misplaced Pages: "Antanas Baranauskas, pol. Antoni Baranowski (ur. 17 stycznia 1835 w Oniksztach - zm. 26 listopada 1902) - litewski biskup katolicki i poeta.<.>Urodził się w litewskiej rodzinie chłopskiej." somewht it states, that Baranauskas was Lithuanian - if you know better, you might correct me. ere is the same situation as with Sirwydas.--Lokyz 15:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

And as for "some poems" you are not right here either - he did wrtoe quite a lot in Lithuanian. And that you don't know this only proves your bias to find "Polskosz" even where it was not. Read Polish wikipedia article, on Banaranauskas, maybe you'll understand the matter better.--Lokyz 15:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Never did I claim he was not a Lithuanian poet or a Lithuanian writer, I'm merely asking why do you claim he was Lithuanian exclusively. The same goes for his writings: I'm 100% right when I say that he started his poetic career as a Polish language writer. Yet, this article in your version does all to hide that fact - yet you dare to call me a nationalist and not yourself... //Halibutt 19:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Huh. I didn't start ths article, i've just added information.

As for you claims - please, expalan how should I understand your statement: "So a guy who wrote some poems in Lithuanian is automatically a Lithuanian, right?"

I did call you antionalist because you're mixing few things - modern Polish nationality, modern Lithuaniin nationality and Commonwealths nationalities e.g. "Litwiny" and "Koroniarze", and are applyng the same Poland link. It's IMO not right.--Lokyz 19:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Krajowcy

"He followed tradition of krajowcy" -> could you explain/elaborate what you mean by that? Renata 15:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

"gente Lituanus natione Polonus" - it means they ar of Lithuanian statehood tradition, not Koroniarzy, who actually are Poles in modern nationalistic understanding. Sometimes they exoplained their identity as "Litwins, not lietuvisai". It is very complex issue, and it needs separate article. But well, probably it was a bad idea to put it here without explanation. --Lokyz 15:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)