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| ===]=== | |||
| {{afdsock}} | |||
| An utterly non-notable group of nerds - sorry, hackers - whose article fails all criteria of ], in particular no multiple independent reliable coverage (the sole source is Slashdot, which doesn't meet ]). Damned if I know why, but I tried searching on ], and came up with nothing. I'm sure they get a lot of Google hits, but who cares? '''Delete'''. ]<sup>]</sup> 01:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' per nom--] 01:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *Bantown meet the two following criteria of ]: | |||
| # Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events | |||
| # The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person. (Multiple similar stories describing a single day's news event only count as one coverage.) | |||
| I fail to see why Slashdot does not meet ]. Please could you point out why Slashdot is not a reliable source. '''Keep''' ] 01:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Newsworthy? Then where are the news articles? Because I searched a database of hundreds of newspapers with tens of thousands of articles, and came up with zilch. As for slashdot, it does not have the fact-checking process required of a secondary source. I think ] better than I could in the current ] debate about ]. --]<sup>]</sup> 02:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Dear Sam, if I may call you that. Please note if I have added a reference to this article. It's from the online edition of an American newspaper called the Washington Post. Perhaps you could let me know if this would be considered reliable. I didn't add it before because as far as I am concerned Slashdot is a more important news source than what is presumably a local newspaper. HTH. ] 02:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Notability or non-notability aside (and I lean towards non-notable) of the subject, this article itself is a wreck. I vote delete until someone is willing to give this group more than just lip-service; perhaps then we can see whether they belong in the encyclopedia. --] 02:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| * As a fan of Bantown for many years now, I think this article sucks and should be completely rewritten or not written at all. '''Strong Delete''' with extreme prejudice. --] 02:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' as per nomination -- this nomination is appropriate because the group is non-notable and the article is horrendously written. ] 02:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' This fails on so many levels. --] 02:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Weak keep'''. Just because an article "sucks" doesn't mean it should be deleted. It's easy to slap a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> tag on it, hard to undelete. My shows just shy of 30,000 hits. I'd like to see more effort to verify notability before deletion. ] 02:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' as per nom. Not notable enough yet for an encyclopedia. One successful attack on a blogging site isn't exactly making hacker history. When they graduate to hacking Pentagon computer systems, pull some amazing stunts revealing the truth about secret alien technologies at Area 51 that get headlines around the world, which eventually leads to all the bantown members receiving long prison sentences, then we can reconsider ] 02:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *A firm '''Delete'''. We don't need to encourage these "skript kidiez" by giving them their own wikipedia article. Everyone knows they're just a lame rip-off of GnAA anyway that has its roots in Furcadia. ] 03:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''. The current entry appears more notable than a typical vanity page, but Bantown isn't all that noteworthy. Maybe clean up the content and add it to an entry on cracker groups or script kiddies. | |||
| *'''delete''' as they only do it for the lulz not the monies. | |||
| *'''Delete''' Bantown has done nothing noteworthy, really they should probably just be rounded up and put in concentration camps for eventual clensing. --] 06:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''', I believe Qurve said it quite well. ] 06:32, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Abstain/Comment''' If anyone wants to keep it, find a newspaper article about it. ] 23:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' - unfunny group that doesn't need more excuses/headlines/credibility to keep it going. ] ]<font color="darkblue"><sup>•</sup></font>] 08:12, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''-0 hits on Google News. If we keep this article, then we might as well have articles on WP vandals as well. They all seem to be in the same category of humanity.--] ] 09:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' this article needs the wiki final solution. --] 15:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' per nom. ] 16:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *Knowing that Bantown has had run-ins with WP folk in the past, '''keep''' due to their involvement in the major LiveJournal attack that caused the site to redo its entire structure. The group meets WP:BIO, contrary to the nom. --] <small>]</small> 19:02, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Is the Livejournal attack really so noteworthy. At best, a mention in the ] article, but not a separate article for the supposed culprits] 11:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| **Out of interest, is it ] that they were actually responsible? So far I've only seen the article where they ''claim'' to be responsible. --]<sup>]</sup> 22:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ***What form would this verification take? ] 23:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Perhaps evidence of police investigation based on formal complaint by Livejournal ] 11:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ***I don't know if it is, but there's nothing stopping us from making sure the article reflects what can be verified about it. --] <small>]</small> 03:36, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Keep''' This article is notable, and quality of an article is not a reason to delete. It's a reason to improve or re-write. ] 23:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' The facts remain | |||
| ** This article contains multiple references to news reporting of incidents involving Bantown | |||
| ** They are not all from one source | |||
| ** They do not all refer to a single incident | |||
| ** They include well-known and respected sources such as slashdot.org and the Washington Post | |||
| Consequently any nomination based on non-notability is abusive. The fact that this AfD nomination is being ballot-stuffed by IP-based users who have no other edits on record is further evidence of this abuse. ] 00:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ***There are two reliable sources, and they both refer to a single incident - where Bantown ''claimed'' to have hacked LiveJournal. --]<sup>]</sup> 13:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ****Thousands of blogs were defaced and had their emails changed to bantown(wildcard) at mailinator or spam.la. There are still some of the defacements up as well as comment crapfloods from hacked accounts on the relevant news posts. The Slashdot story even has someone comment about how their journal was hijacked. Your argument reeks of logical fallacy and illogical denial of legitimate reporting. Nevertheless, I still think this article should be deleted. --] 13:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Keep'''This seems like a perfectly valid and well written article with clear references. Disagreeing with the aims of the hackers or their credibility is no reason to delete the entry, as the events described in the article seem prefectly noteworthy. ] 02:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::* I maintain that being known for one hack attack on a blogging site is not that noteworthy. the other IRC freenode attack appears to be totally unconfirmed as to responsibility. Even so, the two attacks would not be particularly noteworthy ] 11:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Weak keep''' There is some notability, and two decent sources for the livejournal thing. Sources aren't easy to come by, so it will probably be a permastub. Passes ] in my mind. ] 05:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| **There is no such a thing as a "permanent stub". The definition of a stub is that it is a basis for expansion. An article that can never be longer than a few paragraphs without breaking ] is just a stillbirth. --]<sup>]</sup> 13:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ***Has the stubs cabal tried to make up some cannonical definition of a stub? Hell, even if they did I don't care. On topic though, such articles may still be useful or they can be merged somewhere. Since I don't see a particular target, I might as well say keep as there is not a problem that requires deletion currently presented. ] 14:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' To be fair,just wanted to note that there seems to be some influx of pro-deletion new users (probably from a rival hacker group or something) which would account for some of the more extreme comments above. On the other hand, it could be cunning reverse psychology by bantown partisans *shrug* ] 11:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' per nom ] 12:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Weak Keep''' I am not a bantown member, I am in fact a member of a "rival hacker group or something" called the GNAA. But this is a notable article. Attacking LJ and getting however many accounts IS notable. I'm pretty sure they weren't the ones to crack freenode, though. --] 16:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
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