Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:04, 21 July 2006

External Link Discussion

There were way, way too many external links that were commercial sites that didn't add anything to the content of the article...they didn't even provide a usefulness to the reader of the article. If you'd like to readd a link, please post a reason on here first. --Sugarskane 03:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

yes yes they did.

That's fine -- post in the talk page any links you think are relevant and useful, and why. --Sugarskane 03:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

you an op or mod or something? clearly deleting all those links didnt have anything t do with space.. so... what was the point?

I'm neither -- and I didn't delete any of them. I commented them out until people can decide what's pertinent. I looked through some of the links, and realized that a good number of them weren't needed. If you have a link you want to keep -- argue it. --Sugarskane 03:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

oh i have to yell at another person for that one. true that. sorry apparently, i get annoyed by people screwing with the lasertag page, say stupid shit ya know. oh if ya'll wanna help? we need like 30 stubs created.

I deleted the links that were grossly unnesscary; See WP:EL#What should be linked to and WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided for reasoning. Most of the removed links were either commerical sites relating to Laser tag equipment or sites for either niche or small area laser tag groups. As User:Sugarskane mentioned above, any added links should be given a valid reason why first. -- moe.RON 03:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules once again, if you'd like to help we need alot of stubs created. sides all those sites are all (also) cheap shills for their respective systems.

Did you have a link that you feel is missing from the list that Moeron has edited? --Sugarskane 04:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Dropzone - A yearly laser tag event in the United Kingdom
• Frag Tag - Commercial system using the Miles Tag protocol.
• Greg Gaub's Lazer Tag Team Ops page - Lots of great links, info, code of conduct, game ideas, reviews, club locater, etc. Home of the Auburn Laser Tag Club, ALTC in WA state USA.
• Laser Arena Database - UK based Database project or all things laser tag.
• Laser Forums - Discussion forum. Strategies, comparisons of fields and equipment, discussions of homebrew designs and protocols.
• LASER MANIA Game Systems - U.S. Commercial laser Tag manufacturer featuring modulated laser/fiberoptic based laser tag systems.
• Laser Web Laser Tag - Laser Tag facility that uses Darklight equipment. Two facilities in Cincinnati and Dayton, Ohio
• LASERTRON Laser Tag - U.S. Commercial laser tag manufacturer with over 97 active sites.
• Lazer Tactical Action Game Board - Discussion board, centered mainly on home and homebrew gear, its design, construction, and use. Planning and announcements for Tagfest, big Laser Tag games held around the USA.
• Lazer Tag Team Ops on Yahoogroups - Yahoogroup discussion group for Lazer Tag Team Ops home system. Games, tactics, mods.
• Miles Tag DIY Laser Tag System - Build it yourself open protocol system.
• One Source Laser Tag - Links, articles, reviews, maps, schedules of home and homebrew laser tag gear and events. Tagfest NW is usually hosted by this gentleman, who also has an outdoor laser tag field and rents out equipment.
• Quasar Elite Spain - Home of the spanish version of Quasar Elite
• Steradian Technologies - U.S. manufacturer of commercial outdoor laser tag equipment
• TRUTNEE LaserTag Portal - Russian site (English translated site, too) with detailed information about all types of laser tag.
• Tagger - Actual Reality laser tag site.

yeah i think thats the list.. so you gonna make us a bunch of stubs? on anotehr note ya know ya'll deeply over complicate what shoulda been a 20 second wikipedia visit.

I didn't delete any of them (I commented them) -- I just wanted someone to review what was listed, and remove the links that didn't belong. I don't see a need for stubs -- I think that's stupid. I didn't go through all the links, but it seems like you're proposing that they all be readded. I don't feel like arguing each one individually -- so why don't we just do one for right now. http://www.lqarena.com -- it's just a forum, which isn't really something that is added as an external link. What does it provide that is useful?

firstly do you actually play lasertag? part of the reason alot of these links would be usefull is because many of them represent larger chunks of their respective systems. lqarena for example, is a site i'm sad to say i'm familiar with, yes its a message board, centered around LQ, if some one were to start playing tag and look on wikipedia for more information regarding their specific system it would be nice to have more information for them, rather then the vague yet all imcompassing thing we're got going on here. the reason i want to add stubs is because there are many "RED-LINKS" no i'm not copy-pasting the url here, where we could shunt alot of this incredible uglyness and produce alot more specific targeted articles. actually i take the LQ one back. i'll move them to the lq article. assuming someone hasn't attempted to delete it, again.

p.s. on an entirely different note i've finally figuired out what to do with those tables, at the risk of making them uglier. just looking for some pictures, of the specific systems to make identification easier.

You can do whatever you'd like to -- I'm not here to tell you to argue something and ignore your points. If you think something is worthy of being a link, and useful for a lasertag reader, then write it in the discussion and we'll readd it! I'm not being a hardass, I just want someone to reconsider the links =) --Sugarskane 04:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

then who i do talk to get said annoying bot from deleting them?

I don't think a bot is deleting them -- just argue for specific links and say why you want them on... If you aren't specific, and you don't argue, then I have a feeling someone will keep reverting it. --Sugarskane 05:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

version 64973632 by Moeron using VP) see history, its a bot.

hm, k -- again, argue what you want reposted and I'll put them back up. --Sugarskane 05:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Alphabetize Links, Please

This page is getting worse.

Before you play the link shuffle and move your links to the top of the list, please consider the senisibility of posting links alphabetically (ignoring the word "the"). This is a fair system that will keep everyone from constantly jostling their links. NOTE, this puts most of the links that I am associated with at the middle or bottom of the list, but I am still trying to work with this. I realize that the likely offenders probably don't even read the talk page, but I thougth I'd try.

Jebock 14:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

After that many repositionings, I can't fathom that the person doesn't "get it". It seems obvious to me that they don't care, and just want to make sure their link is high on the list, without being obviously placed at the top. Like they're being clever about it or something. IMHO, their IP should be banned, as it's the same every time, and likely to be the owner/webmaster of that site. -Greg Gaub

I will email the site owner and discuss the situation. After that, maybe we'll just delete the site if they keep trying to reposition at the top. Jebock 22:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I discussed the matter with the site owner, and based on his friendship with me, he will honor our wishes. I have encouraged him to become involved here so he can help plot a course, but he made some very good points about the link section including...Some of the smaller club links, individual arena links and the commercial equipment links should go or be moved to their own pages. I thought also we might want to flip the links every couple of weeks and put them in reverse alpha order. I'm all for both ideas personally. I'd like to see the links lower down a little bit. Jebock 12:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm a flexible guy. I love seeing my link there, but I didn't put it in, so won't be all broken up if people decide that it should be culled in favor of more appropriate links. The question is, what is the links section for? What is appropriate on this page, and what is not? My tag site has a variety of things, but it's possible that none of them are appropriate to be linked to from a general info page on laser tag sports. Maybe it would be more appropriate for my link to point to the Laser Tagger Profiles database, which is designed for tag players anywhere in the world who play any kind of laser tag? Anyway, if someone has a good reason for deleting my link among others, I won't be trying to put it back every week. -Greg Gaub (June 20, 2006)

I believe we should leave the links alpha order, its the simplist and most uncontriversial way to arange them. If we put then in reverse alpha order ol Jebock here (know policer for LASERTRON) has his where to play on the top, right where he doesnt want anyone elses link

Cleanup

I am interested cleaning this article a bit. Prior to making the edits, I am mentioning them here for everyone interested to respond. I am an avid wikipedia reader, but I am new to 'serious' editing. For now, I would like to propose a recategorization and cleanup of the article's place in wikipedia, and after accomplishing that, cleaning up the text for readability.

Here are my proposals:

Change to the term 'Laser Tag' from 'lasertag', as it is still used extensively in the article, and seems to be the more popular name; there are over 10x as many references to Laser+Tag http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22laser+tag%22&btnG=Search than Lazertag http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22lasertag%22&btnG=Search on Google.

Rearrangement of article text to conform to wikipedia style guidlines, where applicable.

Replace the 'Lightgun games' wikipedia Category with 'Laser Tag', as this term is commonly used for all lightgun games, regardless of if they actually use a laser.

Reposition this directly under the 'Sports' category, or some new category with similar 'precision/tactic sports' pages. Any great ideas?

Create a section about (and new sub-category of) major Laser Tag Manufacturers, where they may get their own pages. (some already do)

Create sub-articles for arena laser tag and outdoor laser tag.

Create a category and pages for protocols (WoW, MILEStag, various proprietary systems)

Possibly, I can find some usable pictures, maybe create diagrams of how a common system works. Help welcome!

Later on, I would like to get rid of the giant table, and possibly move the jargon to its own page.

Please note, I'm not asking anyone to do all this work (not that I mind), I will figure out the how-to's myself, but mostly just looking for any concensus or disputes before moving categories around and such.

--Choz 15:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with most of these points. Let's make the lasertag page as generic and inclusive as possible rather than get into squabbles about outdoor vs. arena and different mfgs. Jebock 17:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Coolness. I'm working on it, then. Also, I'm looking for pics that might be useful. If anyone has images of people playing, or of equipment, please upload it to the commons and let me know here. Thanks.--Choz 14:34, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Stick with pictures of MILES and Photon. Anything else an we're going to have a defacement war on our hands. - Psyik 13:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I also agree with most of that. My main hope is that we can replace the table with a list of systems. Most systems easily have enough object information about hardware and styles to fill entire articles. That would mean a dozen or so pages on individual systems instead of just arena/outdoor, but it's going to be necessary. If you look back, the history of the page is packed with people adding systems, others removing them, only for the first guy to put it back up, only for the second to remove it again.

I believe in Misplaced Pages. I think I can work. But it doesn’t. And it doesn’t work because too many people start defacing other systems just to distinguish their own. The only way to fix that is to split these people up. It’s as close we can come to having a real, objective section of laser tag. If we can’t do that, we might as well delete the whole thing. - Psyik 13:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this is that bad. Sure, the site needs to be watched and managed, but most of the changes are fly bys. People who watch this page all the time are more reasonable. That's the way most of WikiPedia is, IMHO. However, you're right on with pictures. Photon and MILES are ok. Anything else is probably 1) a copyright violation (I police this for LASERTRON and have found several sites that don't even use our gear using our photos) and 2) cause a holy war for brand 'x' equipment. Jebock 15:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does work, there are thousands of great pages out there. It just takes more time for some topics to 'gel'. As for pictures, I don't mind putting images of several brands of equipment, diagrams of how sensors work, etc. As long as it's appropriate for use on wikipedia.If an image is not okay, then it gets pulled; eventually we'll have some good, legit imagery. Lots of people play with various equipment and lots of people have cameras, so original pics are all I am asking for.

When you guys recommend using only pics of Photon and MILES, are you refering to M.I.L.E.S., or to MilesTag? M.I.L.E.S. images taken by the US Gov't are PD, but MilesTag images are not. Anyways, there are lots of other systems out there, and pic's needn't be 'ripped'. I plan to put extensive work into this page all through August, I'm fact-finding (and quite busy) right now. Soon, I may email a few manufacturers and ask them to put some pics out there for us to use under PD or an appropriate license. Hey, it's free advertising for them, they might bite --Choz 06:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Commercial Links

Personally, I am against publishing laser tag manufacturer sites in the links list. But, I will be adding LASERTRON if others add their sites. Jebock

Lasermaxx

Why isn`t included. One of Europe biggestlasertag systems! Can some one please include this system?

You took the time to edit the talk page - why not just add it yourself? There is an edit button at the title of each section, and also at the top of the page. Mushin 13:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Outdoor

What do the outdoor indications mean by many of the laser tag systems? Some of them, are unable to played outdoors. I removed them because they are misleading (for example, there isn't any outdoor Q-Zar and I know that LaserQuest, due to the way the software works, is unable to be played outdoors).

ParticleMan 00:19, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've always thought the "IR" in IR beam stood for infrared, not information relay. Where did this usage come from? Shawn K. Quinn 13:33, 2004 Nov 23 (UTC)

another observation

"Laserquest" or more accurately "Laser Quest" is actually the trademark for a specific laser tag system, used outside the UK as well (it is one of the more common systems in North America). --Shawn K. Quinn 22:06, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)

Outdoor?

This article needs revision to address the outdoor version of the sport, e.g. the Battlefield Sports style of commercial system, the MilesTag non-commercial/public-doman DIY system, etc.

Outdoor laser tag equipment use high power IR LEDs, not IR lasers. They're usually run well above their rated current, but at a suitably low duty cycle, and collimated through a 20-40 mm lens. It gives you remarkably long range, even in direct sunlight. Not using a laser also means that you can use magnified scope optics with no safety problems.

It'd also be worth mentioning that the DIY scene has a couple of competing data protocols, with milestag and worlds of wonder variants being the main ones. MT for versatility, WoW for historical reasons.

And yes, IR definitely means 'infrared'.

Check out...

http://www.laserforums.com/ http://www.lasertagparts.com/mtdesign.htm http://www.battlefieldsports.com/

Actually, many indoor systems use IR as well. Q-Zar uses an IR LED and a lens to focus it in a fairly straight line. It has a laser, but that's just for visible effect and show.

ParticleMan 15:32, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Responsilibities

What exactly are my responsibilities regarding this? i suppose i qualify as an expert in my field. or as a tagger.... anywho..

Laser Tag/Lasertag

Am I the only one who prefers to see two words? I think it's supposed to be like that, but feel free to bitch at me if I'm an idiot.

I agree. Every time I've seen Laser Tag, it's been two words. ParticleMan 23:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Laser tag vs LaserQuest

Same game, two articles. Any views? -Icecradle 20:12, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

LaserQuest is a type of Laser tag. I say we leave them as two separate articles. ParticleMan 23:28, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Laser Quest is one manufacturer of equipment for the game of Laser Tag. Besides, Laser Quest only works indoors. The sport of Laser Tag can be played both indoors and outdoors. Leave it as two separate articles. Zev-va 02:33, 2 January 2006 (user forgot to sign - sig added by next poster)

LaserQuest is not the same game as all other tag systems, despite resemblance between competing systems. Not only are there variations in the way that some of these systems work, there are also variations in the "rules" and "background material" associated with individual systems. Worlds of Wonder Laser Tag, for example, has a TV spin-off cartoon that follows the lives of futuristic, Lazer Tag duelists. That would only be relevant to that one single system.

If anything is wrong I think it is this article. While it gives a good overview of things, it also merges in information that only applies to individual systems. For example: 'not pointing lasers at people's eyes' is mentioned, despite the fact that lasers only feature in indoor tag and most tag systems, do not have lasers.

I think it would be far better to have more articles like the LaserQuest article and move any information that does not apply to at least two systems into individual articles.

I also think that the list of Lasertag systems should point to Misplaced Pages articles and not the home pages of the individual systems. This process should start off with LaserQuest as it already has a good article. Big Mac 03:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the fact that the problem with this article is that it merges too much together (the "Types of Games" section and to a lesser extent "Lasertag Slang"). ParticleMan 04:00, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey don't look at me i'm to lazy to make an entire entry. Keep the enteries seperate, because there isn't a good reason to combine them. on another note, how do we get rid of that suggestion? Whatever

Edits of section Types of players

This section contained quantitative statistics about how the market for Laser Tag is made up. These were not supported anywhere with sources, so have been removed. Information cannot be stated as fact without citing references. Also removed an anticipation of how the outdoor market will mature, as wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Thanks. Mushin 12:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Alot of the information gathered in the world of lasertag is infact gathered by the people who do the posting.. as far as that information goes, though i was not responsible for such information it does not and did not seem erronous as to my own experience. i may return such information, should i get off my lazy ass. so in future unless you want me to quote myself as a reference.. ~whatever~

p.s. that came off sounding mean. sorry.

Tables , Ugly Ugly Tables

The tables are actually difficult to read and have too much info in them. I believe it is better to keep this page on general info about laser tag. Then a page on each of the manufacturers can have a page individually. Zev-va

Is there a rule against tables, at least when abused so?

Whatever

I'm to blame for the tables - I'm not sure if I like them either, however at the time it seemed like a reasonable way to organize the information. I'd prefer an article on each system, but I don't think we are going to have enough content for that. The tables were put in to replace a list of links to system manufacturers - the list was getting to the point where it felt more like a web directory and was removed by another wikipedian - I felt that there are enough distinctions between the various systems to make some mention and comparison of the systems out there worthwhile, and the table was what I came up with. I'm open to better ideas that will present the same (or expanded) information so long as they do so logically and consistantly. - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 06:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

nice attempt, but it looks horrible, you crammed way to much information into a small ass area. honestly i'd fix it myself if i wasn't far too lazy. actually no. i'll fix that soon enough, then deal with the laserquest conquer attept.

whatever

Links and Commercial Language

--sigh-- Someone decided to post a talk thread directly to the article. The assertion was that commercial links shouldn't be placed on a wikipedia page. Apparently this was a slam towards a listing I posted called wheretoplaylasertag.com, which, oddly enough, is a web site created by a forming non-profit trade association no different than any other trade association listed. Appropriate commercial links are certainly valid if in proper context.

Jebock

what you thought this was directed at you? but hey thanks for the help. ~whatever~

Oh, I'm quite certain it was directed at me. BTW, are you the whatever I occasionally play Armageddon with? Jebock

yes bock, it is.

Table bad! Links to Manufacturer bad!

The table. The table needs to change. Ideally, it would be replaced by a list of laser tags, each of which would be link to a Wiki about it (the existence of which will depend on the players of that tag). That list this would do well to be in alphabetical order.

Until then, the table needs a few changes:

• Remove the Description & History section. It's useless. All those other columns are the description, so all this section does right now is make the row bigger and get more attention.
• Keep it small. For example: "Many variants as number of lives, shots, teams and bases can be toggled. The most common variants for standard play are Solo and Team. Members often play at special events and these can include many other types of games (too many to list) since, as mentioned above, so many settings can be toggled." is too big an entry for the Variants column. "11 Versions (LT-1 through LT-11)" isn't.
• Each system should have a Wiki link in the name. That link might be red, might be blue. If it's blue, good for you. If it's red, I would suggest that the players of that system start filling it in. I see that Zone, Lasertron, and Photon have no Wikis. I don't particularly care for them, but I think they deserve a Wiki of their own.
• Alphabetical Arrangement. That would mean Actual Reality up front, Zone in the back, and all the rest between them.
• Stop it with the hideous blank spots. For example, Quest didn't put in the manufacturer. That moved everything to the left once, and left a blank space at the end. The point of a table is display information in a simple and attractive way.

-Psyik

alright apparently i'm going to get back to the horrid mess of turning this into an article again. though i continue to have the problem of knowing how to shorten it. i will also be moving some of the lq stuff to the lq article because the definition section, has gotten too freaking long. I'm also gonna dis-comment some stuff that shouldn't have gotten commented
~whatever~
p.s. yeah and those tables. gone.
p.p.s. yeah and whomever commented out the bit about shooting people in the eye, thats really a bit of lasertag manners (no i can't spell ediquete(ediccite?)) though its not somethings that comes up real often except for people doing so often, in order to annoy some one else. notably however i've shot myself plenty of times in the eyes, and am not infact blind yet.

don't know who posted this putting it in its more correct spot. ~whatever~

Not sure how to fix this, but the link to Zone throws you to a disambig for that word, and does not offer the lasertag game as an option. Also note Zone is short for Zone Empire, the overall term P&C Micros uses for their systems. Zone goes by other names in other areas, Ultrazone in the US, Megazone in the UK, i think Zone 3 in Australia, etc. :)