| Revision as of 23:06, 8 April 2015 editPaulBustion88 (talk | contribs)329 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 23:07, 8 April 2015 edit undoPaulBustion88 (talk | contribs)329 edits →Freud's being Jewish not Relevant?: ClarificationNext edit → | ||
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| *Freud's ethnic and religious background is relevant to his life, but not to psychoanalysis. Just like the fact that Einstein was jewish is irrelevant for the theory of relativity. The fact that some guy has proposed a connection is irrelevant unless this proposal has been generally accepted. Do introductions to psychoanalysis go into Freud's ethnic origins?] · ] 17:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | *Freud's ethnic and religious background is relevant to his life, but not to psychoanalysis. Just like the fact that Einstein was jewish is irrelevant for the theory of relativity. The fact that some guy has proposed a connection is irrelevant unless this proposal has been generally accepted. Do introductions to psychoanalysis go into Freud's ethnic origins?] · ] 17:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| ::::Einstein's theory of relativity is a quasi-mathematical theory, although it is not technically mathematics. Mathematics cannot be connected to morality, culture, religion, politics, etc. Freud's psychoanalysis is basically a form of psychotherapy, which has profound implications for society, and can connect to religion, politics, etc. So they are two different matters. --] (]) 22:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | ::::Einstein's theory of relativity is a quasi-mathematical theory, although it is not technically mathematics. Mathematics cannot be connected to morality, culture, religion, politics, etc. Freud's psychoanalysis is basically a form of psychotherapy, which has profound implications for society, and can connect to religion, politics, etc. So they are two different matters. --] (]) 22:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| :::Also, why is it called an obsession to criticize excessive Jewish influence, but not to criticize excessive Islamic influence. Today, even though Jews are less than 10% of the USA's population, they are 40% of academia, the news media, etc. People on Fox News constantly complain about excessive Islamic influence, but no one is willing to talk about excessive Jewish influence. Why is the one considered bigoted, but not the other? Its also not racist, because a person can choose whether to follow the philosophy of Judaism, although he cannot choose his racial origin. Jewry and Judaism are two different things. Criticizing Judaism is not the same thing as criticizing the Jewish race. Incidentally, David Bakan suggested in ''Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition'' that Freud's Judaism did influence psychoanalysis. --] (]) 23:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | :::Also, why is it called an obsession to criticize excessive Jewish influence, but not to criticize excessive Islamic influence. Today, even though Jews are less than 10% of the USA's population, they are 40% of academia, the news media, etc. People on Fox News constantly complain about excessive Islamic influence, but no one is willing to talk about excessive Jewish influence. Why is the one considered bigoted, but not the other? Its also not racist, because a person can choose whether to follow the philosophy of Judaism, although he cannot choose his racial origin. Jewry (the racial or at least allegedly racial group) and Judaism (the religion, both in its theistic and atheistic forms) are two different things. Criticizing Judaism is not the same thing as criticizing the Jewish race. Incidentally, David Bakan suggested in ''Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition'' that Freud's Judaism did influence psychoanalysis. --] (]) 23:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
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Barbara Milrod research ???
There is on research by Barbara Milrod that is to empirically support Freud's ideas. I've searched the web and found nothing on that. However I found Barbara Milrod's page () and don't see there any publications on this topic.
Reimut Reiche, Germany
Reimut Reiche is a well-known psychoanalyst in Germany.
He has written the book:
Psychoanalyse und Klassenkampf - Psychoanalysis and Class Struggle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/Reimut_Reiche
Freud's being Jewish not Relevant?
I do not agree that Freud's Jewish background is irrelevant. Jews have had an inordinate influence in the field of psychoanalysis and in psychotherapy generally. Freud's Jewish background was part of the reason for his friction with the reactionary, racist Carl Jung. Freud used his position as a scientist to attack Christianity in many of his writings, such as The Future of an Illusion. Reliable sources have said Freud's Jewish background biased him in a lot of ways, particularly against Christianity. "One of Freud's most powerful motives in life was the desire to inflict vengeance on Christianity for its traditional anti-Semitism. This idea has been suggested by Freud himself, and has been alluded to by others. In The Interpretation of Dreams, where Freud tells us so much about himself, he relates one of his dreams in which he is in Rome." Thomas Szasz, The Myth of Psychotherapy: Mental Healing as Religion, Rhetoric, and Repression (Anchor Press/Doubleday, NY, 1978).http://mailstar.net/freud.html Also Freud's Jewish background may have influenced his left leaning political views. Why can't just one word be spent pointing out Freud was Jewish?--PaulBustion88 (talk) 12:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- We don't need bigoted crap like that on Misplaced Pages unless you have a distinctly reliable source that shows that that has something important to do with the development of psychoanalysis, which you do not. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 12:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- From what I have read there are significant historical and perhaps philosophical connections between psychoanalysis and Judaism. Psychoanalysts (especially Jewish ones, of which there were many) were persecuted in Nazi Germany and later in the postwar Stalinist USSR. On the conceptual level there is lots (and lots) of discussion about the Jewishness or not of psychoanalysis (, just the tip of the iceberg), which is an issue someone might want to discuss on Misplaced Pages if they were going to do it very carefully. It is correct that Freud takes digs specifically at Christian civilization in The Future of an Illusion. But you'd have to say that Moses and Monotheism is a bit of a dig at Jewish orthodoxy as well. Anyway, to discuss Jewishness in the article about psychoanalysis, as opposed to the article about Sigmund Freud, it would probably be best to cite some quality sources and make statements about the overall demographics of practitioners. (The very fact of citing Szasz on Freud's "Anti-Gentilism" suggests a somewhat selective motivation for attributing religious/ethnic alignment only to Freud. If his religion is important because Szasz says so then this viewpoint should be attributed to Szasz in the proper part of the article.) After all we are not going out of our way to describe Carl Jung as Christian, even though he made quite a big deal out of Christianity being the intellectual heritage of "The West". (Ironically the only mention of Christianity in this article now is to mention French philosophers subsequently accusing psychoanalysis of being Christianoid!) shalom, groupuscule (talk) 13:55, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- We have the statement, "His remarks on the superiority of the "Aryan unconscious" and the “corrosive character” of Freud’s “Jewish gospel” have been cited as evidence of an anti-semitism “fundamental to the structure of Jung’s thought”"in the Carl Jung article, compare that to my just proposing Freud be described with the single word Jewish. --PaulBustion88 (talk) 16:29, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Your mention of another Misplaced Pages article strongly suggests that you should carefully review the Misplaced Pages content guideline on reliable sources. We don't point to one Misplaced Pages article with a possible mistake in editing practice to back up making the same mistake in another article. Most of the 6,929,984 articles on Misplaced Pages need a lot of work, and the way that articles become better is for editors here to read reliable, published sources, preferably of an encyclopedic or reference book nature, that are on the same topics as the articles the editors are editing, and using those sources to determine what to emphasize and what not to bring up. So let me ask you directly: what reliable, professionally edited, published sources have you read on the topic of psychoanalysis, the topic of this article? What sources do you recommend for editing Misplaced Pages article content about psychoanalysis? -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 18:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- We have the statement, "His remarks on the superiority of the "Aryan unconscious" and the “corrosive character” of Freud’s “Jewish gospel” have been cited as evidence of an anti-semitism “fundamental to the structure of Jung’s thought”"in the Carl Jung article, compare that to my just proposing Freud be described with the single word Jewish. --PaulBustion88 (talk) 16:29, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- From what I have read there are significant historical and perhaps philosophical connections between psychoanalysis and Judaism. Psychoanalysts (especially Jewish ones, of which there were many) were persecuted in Nazi Germany and later in the postwar Stalinist USSR. On the conceptual level there is lots (and lots) of discussion about the Jewishness or not of psychoanalysis (, just the tip of the iceberg), which is an issue someone might want to discuss on Misplaced Pages if they were going to do it very carefully. It is correct that Freud takes digs specifically at Christian civilization in The Future of an Illusion. But you'd have to say that Moses and Monotheism is a bit of a dig at Jewish orthodoxy as well. Anyway, to discuss Jewishness in the article about psychoanalysis, as opposed to the article about Sigmund Freud, it would probably be best to cite some quality sources and make statements about the overall demographics of practitioners. (The very fact of citing Szasz on Freud's "Anti-Gentilism" suggests a somewhat selective motivation for attributing religious/ethnic alignment only to Freud. If his religion is important because Szasz says so then this viewpoint should be attributed to Szasz in the proper part of the article.) After all we are not going out of our way to describe Carl Jung as Christian, even though he made quite a big deal out of Christianity being the intellectual heritage of "The West". (Ironically the only mention of Christianity in this article now is to mention French philosophers subsequently accusing psychoanalysis of being Christianoid!) shalom, groupuscule (talk) 13:55, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Freud's ethnic and religious background is relevant to his life, but not to psychoanalysis. Just like the fact that Einstein was jewish is irrelevant for the theory of relativity. The fact that some guy has proposed a connection is irrelevant unless this proposal has been generally accepted. Do introductions to psychoanalysis go into Freud's ethnic origins?·maunus · snunɐɯ· 17:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Einstein's theory of relativity is a quasi-mathematical theory, although it is not technically mathematics. Mathematics cannot be connected to morality, culture, religion, politics, etc. Freud's psychoanalysis is basically a form of psychotherapy, which has profound implications for society, and can connect to religion, politics, etc. So they are two different matters. --PaulBustion88 (talk) 22:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Also, why is it called an obsession to criticize excessive Jewish influence, but not to criticize excessive Islamic influence. Today, even though Jews are less than 10% of the USA's population, they are 40% of academia, the news media, etc. People on Fox News constantly complain about excessive Islamic influence, but no one is willing to talk about excessive Jewish influence. Why is the one considered bigoted, but not the other? Its also not racist, because a person can choose whether to follow the philosophy of Judaism, although he cannot choose his racial origin. Jewry (the racial or at least allegedly racial group) and Judaism (the religion, both in its theistic and atheistic forms) are two different things. Criticizing Judaism is not the same thing as criticizing the Jewish race. Incidentally, David Bakan suggested in Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition that Freud's Judaism did influence psychoanalysis. --PaulBustion88 (talk) 23:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC)