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Revision as of 21:26, 10 June 2015

Food and drink C‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Food and Drink task list: edit history watch purge To edit this page, select here Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink: Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish Participate in project-related deletion discussions. Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this. Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here. Provide photographs and images for Category:Misplaced Pages requested images of food Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

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NPOV

User:Alexbrn's edits have altered the POV of the article towards the thesis that red meat poses few health risks. My impression is the current scientific consensus is that red meat is unhealthy, and that there is not currently enough evidence to pronounce unprocessed red meat as safe, especially since some studies suggest even unprocessed red meat is unhealthy. (As evidence for the consensus, the Mayo Clinic, Aug 19, 2014, recommends avoiding red meat: ). Are there any objections to changing the article to reflect that consensus? Rolf H Nelson (talk) 04:26, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

The only POV that matters is that of high-quality (in this case WP:MEDRS) sources, which we must faithfully reflect. So far as I see, the Mayo clinic page mentions red meat once in relation to a 2009 study which our article already references. Are there newer/better sources for for effect of red meat consumption on mortality? Maybe PMID 24148709 ... Alexbrn 04:38, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Surely you agree that "medical guidelines or position statements from nationally or internationally recognised expert bodies" are MEDRS, even if they choose not to explicitly mention the latest research. (Otherwise they'd have to put out a new guideline every week stating that homeopathy is still nonsense, despite the latest claim of the week!) I'm welcome to other suggestions on how to resolve the issue; as usual, there are an unlimited number of studies that find evidence and an unlimited number of studies that find no evidence. Part of the disconnect may be that I'm not clear on this edit: , where one anti-unprocessed-red-meat HSPH study with a DOI link is "weakly sourced" but a pro-unprocessed-red-meat HSPH study with only a press release remains in the paragraph. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 04:59, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Probably because we already had good sources for cancer in place; less so for mortality. Looking again, this page is still a disaster area and we shouldn't be using press releases, primary sources, etc. at all. I trimmed what I thought were the worst of these. The meta-analysis I mentioned may be a good basis for some better material here on mortality, but unfortunately I don't have access. Alexbrn 05:26, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Given resource constraints, we can get rid of most of the health section if it's a disaster area and just state that organizations X, Y, and Z advise limiting red meat consumption, and remove the health content that doesn't have MEDRS secondary sources. IMHO meta-analyses are primary sources when they data-mine and come to novel conclusions, but I'm fine either way as long as we're consistent. Anyone have any objections to the section being drastically trimmed like that? Rolf H Nelson (talk) 04:35, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

I'd not object to removing all non-MEDRS-sourced content (but meta-analyses should stay, or at least be discussed, as they *are* MEDRS in general). I had a go at improving the referencing a while ago, so some sourcing/content is okay ... Alexbrn 06:11, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

PMID 24148709 is great, because it reviews other meta-analyses and meets WP:SECONDARY solidly. I'm not sure what you mean by "don't have access" though; can't we just cite the

Hah! it's freely available! Silly me. (Add: but oh that's not the final version of the article; I'm a little uneasy using it in case something changed ... I don't have access to the version of reference.) Alexbrn 06:58, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Stop with the mambo jambo

The "gastronomical" definition of red meet keeps itself on top of all the other more accurate ones. It is ridiculous that an Encyclopedia such as wikipedia places on top of a definition the least sound one and the one based on a 1989(!!!!!!!!!!!!!) quote and the more recent, accurate ones are sent downstair day after day. The meat lobby is strong over here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.196.202.87 (talk) 00:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

First learn how to speek english "Mumbo Jumbo" not "Mambo Jambo". Second, not with traditional thinking or common knowledge! Pork, along with Chicken or Fish, has always been considered not red meat. It's part of common American and western culture and is supported in cookbooks and dictionaries. See discussion in Talk:White meat. It's amusing that you consider OED 2 a poor source, and seem to think that 18 years ago is a long time. Are you basing your judgement on personal experience (i.e. original research)? What about a world perspective? Have you investigated European (not to mention Asian, etc.) positions? "Red meat" has been a culinary term for a long time; the article already cites the Oxford English Dictionary and Larousse Gastronomique on the topic. One has to only look up the word in the dictionary "Meats such as beef that are dark red in color when uncooked". The real question is why did this culinary article turn into a nutritional article?144.188.128.4 (talk) 14:43, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Processed meat consumption Vs Red meat consumption Vs Vegetarianism

This article is about Red meat, not meat in general, not processed meat. Weight gain (or other issues) due to general meat eating habits (not specifically red meat) are not relevant, and the danger of processed foods are only relevant discussing the theoretical statistical correlation of red meet consumption and processed meat consumption, and how this may impact past studies.144.188.128.6 (talk) 13:32, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Commentary

Please stop adding commentary and unsourced material. --NeilN 17:30, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

First, it was all sourced, no commentary, second, use user talk pages for rants like these in the future. I removed some commentary, and tried to clear up an issue that was confusing with sourced material from the beef article. All i wonder is who is paying you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.188.128.3 (talk) 21:22, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

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