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Revision as of 21:33, 2 August 2015 editHawkeye7 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, Mass message senders, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors124,162 edits →WP:ANI← Previous edit Revision as of 21:46, 2 August 2015 edit undoCassianto (talk | contribs)37,404 edits →WP:ANI: re HawkeyeNext edit →
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:::::You do, yes, but it is essential they know how content creation works in order to police it. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 18:34, 2 August 2015 (UTC) :::::You do, yes, but it is essential they know how content creation works in order to police it. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 18:34, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::Yep. And Liz chided me on some civility schtick while completely missing the real point, perhaps because she has so little experience of content work - the discussion spread across several pages eventually but the nub of it is ]. - ] (]) 18:49, 2 August 2015 (UTC) ::::::Yep. And Liz chided me on some civility schtick while completely missing the real point, perhaps because she has so little experience of content work - the discussion spread across several pages eventually but the nub of it is ]. - ] (]) 18:49, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::::And its exchanges like that {{u|Sitush}} which makes me think further that Liz and people like her shouldn't be anywhere near a mop. I bet 100% of the supporters don't even know about that exchange. Will that last one please turn off the light! '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 21:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::: I think Aero is saying that janitors perform an important role in hospitals, so hospitals should be run by janitors instead of doctors. ] (]) 21:33, 2 August 2015 (UTC) :::::::: I think Aero is saying that janitors perform an important role in hospitals, so hospitals should be run by janitors instead of doctors. ] (]) 21:33, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes, I got it in the end and feel desperately sad that that kind of thinking exists. His stupid analogy suggests that although we would all be working in beautifully clean conditions, death and disease among the community would be rife. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 21:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:46, 2 August 2015

Edit stats

Extended content

Edit stats from here: 

Liz •  en.wikipedia.org
 Block log · Global user contributions · Global Account Manager · SUL Info · Pageviews in userspace ·
General statistics     
User ID:	19404073
User groups:	autoreviewer, massmessage-sender, reviewer, rollbacker, user, autoconfirmed
First edit:	Jul 25, 2013, 5:02 PM
Latest edit:	Jul 28, 2015, 1:14 PM
Live edits:	44,229
Deleted edits:	1,580
Total edits:  	45,809
Edits in the past 24 hours:	37
Edits in the past 7 days:	499
Edits in the past 30 days:	8,489
Edits in the past 365 days:	19,467
Ø number of edits per day:	62.6
Live edits:
Unique pages edited:	24,161
Pages created:	1,846
Pages moved:	229
Ø edits per page:	1.8
Ø change per page (bytes):	extended
Files uploaded:	0
Files uploaded (Commons):	0
(Semi-)automated edits:	1,529
Reverted edits:	237
Edits with summary:	43,834
Number of minor edits (tagged):	1,380
Number of edits (<20 bytes):	extended
Number of edits (>1000 bytes):	extended
Actions:
Thank:	124 x
Approve:	60 x
Patrol:	815 x
Admin actions
Block:	0 x
Protect:	0 x
Delete:	0 x
Import:	0 x
过错:
(Re)blocked:	0 x
Longest block: –
Current block: –
SUL editcounter
(approximate):	latest
► enwiki 	45,390 	+2 hours
metawiki 	71 	+4 days
commonswiki 	42 	+23 days
wikidatawiki 	40 	> 30 days
mediawikiwiki 	24 	> 30 days
enwikinews 	6 	> 30 days
enwikisource 	4 	> 30 days
enwikibooks 	3 	> 30 days
wikimania2015wiki 	2 	> 30 days
wikimania2014wiki 	2 	> 30 days
svwiki 	1 	> 30 days
43 others	7	> 30 days
Total edits	45,592
bla bla
Namespace Totals 
	일반 문서 	12,364 	28%
	Talk 	1,245 	2.8%
	User 	809 	1.8%
	User talk 	4,841 	10.9%
	Misplaced Pages 	16,112 	36.4%
	Misplaced Pages talk 	1,366 	3.1%
	File 	35 	0.1%
	File talk 	2 	0%
	MediaWiki talk 	9 	0%
	Template 	176 	0.4%
	Template talk 	107 	0.2%
	Help 	7 	0%
	Help talk 	7 	0%
	Category 	7,054 	15.9%
	Category talk 	41 	0.1%
	Portal 	16 	0%
	Portal talk 	15 	0%
	Book 	1 	0%
	Draft 	16 	0%
	Draft talk 	4 	0%
	Education Program talk 	2 	0%
Year counts 
2013 	14,477	
2014 	10,297	
2015 	19,455	
Time card 
Timecard
Latest edit (global) - Edits in the past 30 days, max. 10 / Wiki 
Date  ↓ 	Wiki  ↓ 	Links  ↓ 	Page title  ↓ 	Comment  ↓
2015-07-28, 13:14 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Articles for deletion/2015 Cirrus SR-20 Crash 	Amending comment
2015-07-28, 13:12 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Articles for deletion/2015 Cirrus SR-20 Crash 	/* 2015 Cirrus SR-20 Crash */ Delete
2015-07-28, 12:45 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Meetup/NYC 	/* Possible attendees */ Adding my name to the list
2015-07-28, 12:15 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Thegleaminureyes 	/* Welcome to Misplaced Pages: check out the Teahouse! */ new s...
2015-07-28, 12:15 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Thegleaminureyes 	Welcome to Misplaced Pages! (])
2015-07-28, 12:12 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kww and The Rambling Man/Proposed decision 	Enforcing section warning
2015-07-28, 10:41 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Liz 	Posting RfA notice
2015-07-28, 10:30 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Requests for adminship/Liz 	RfA/Liz goes live
2015-07-28, 10:20 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kww and The Rambling Man/Proposed decision 	/* General comments */ Removing TRM header for pre-PD tim...
2015-07-28, 00:35 	enwiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Articles for deletion/PartStore.com 	Delete
2015-07-24, 14:25 	metawiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	Association of Categorist Wikipedians/Members 	
2015-07-04, 17:23 	commonswiki 	( diff · log · top ) 	:Wikimedia organizational and user rights hierarchy.svg 	Comment
Month counts 
2013-07 	300	
2013-08 	1,363	
2013-09 	3,869	
2013-10 	4,281	
2013-11 	3,041	
2013-12 	1,623	
2014-01 	2,252	
2014-02 	2,034	
2014-03 	3,858	
2014-04 	678	
2014-05 	1,412	
2014-06 	51	
2014-11 	9	
2014-12 	3	
2015-01 	59	
2015-02 	1,662	
2015-03 	672	
2015-04 	3,213	
2015-05 	2,794	
2015-06 	2,935	
2015-07 	8,120	
Top edited pages 
일반 문서
29 	List of redheads 	log · page history · topedits
15 	Usher (singer) 	log · page history · topedits
15 	Darius McCrary 	log · page history · topedits
14 	Laurence Fishburne 	log · page history · topedits
13 	Gary Coleman 	log · page history · topedits
12 	Keith David 	log · page history · topedits
12 	List of fictional supercouples 	log · page history · topedits
12 	Judith Sargent Murray 	log · page history · topedits
12 	Wayne Brady 	log · page history · topedits
12 	Ranjana Khanna 	log · page history · topedits
11 	Tahj Mowry 	log · page history · topedits
11 	Gamergate controversy 	log · page history · topedits
11 	Alfonso Ribeiro 	log · page history · topedits
10 	Carlon Jeffery 	log · page history · topedits
10 	Deaths in 2013 	log · page history · topedits
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Talk
91 	Talk:Gamergate controversy 	log · page history · topedits
37 	Talk:Hapa/Archive 1 	log · page history · topedits
37 	Talk:Hapa 	log · page history · topedits
18 	Talk:Ashkenazi Jews 	log · page history · topedits
15 	Talk:Brianna Wu 	log · page history · topedits
13 	Talk:Galicia (Eastern Europe) 	log · page history · topedits
12 	Talk:Leo Frank 	log · page history · topedits
12 	Talk:Leo Frank/Archive 5 	log · page history · topedits
10 	Talk:Raul Julia-Levy 	log · page history · topedits
9 	Talk:Irom Chanu Sharmila 	log · page history · topedits
9 	Talk:Ave Maria University/Archive 1 	log · page history · topedits
9 	Talk:David Ray Griffin 	log · page history · topedits
9 	Talk:Proposals for a Palestinian state/Archive 1 	log · page history · topedits
9 	Talk:Ave Maria University 	log · page history · topedits
9 	Talk:Proposals for a Palestinian state 	log · page history · topedits
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User
269 	User:Liz/CSD log 	log · page history · topedits
136 	User:Liz 	log · page history · topedits
23 	User:Liz/PROD log 	log · page history · topedits
17 	User:Liz/Whiteboard3 	log · page history · topedits
15 	User:Liz/common.js 	log · page history · topedits
14 	User:Liz/Whiteboard 	log · page history · topedits
7 	User:Liz/Whiteboard2 	log · page history · topedits
7 	User:Liz/Whiteboard4 	log · page history · topedits
6 	User:Liz/Pej Vahdat 	log · page history · topedits
6 	User:Liz/Whiteboard5 	log · page history · topedits
5 	User:Liz/monobook.js 	log · page history · topedits
5 	User:Wik 	log · page history · topedits
5 	User:Liz/Wikicountitis 	log · page history · topedits
5 	User:Ruud Koot/Feed 	log · page history · topedits
5 	User:Liz/Whiteboard8 	log · page history · topedits
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User talk
813 	User talk:Liz 	log · page history · topedits
153 	User talk:Jimbo Wales 	log · page history · topedits
60 	User talk:Drmies 	log · page history · topedits
38 	User talk:Callanecc 	log · page history · topedits
35 	User talk:Gamaliel 	log · page history · topedits
34 	User talk:BrownHairedGirl 	log · page history · topedits
34 	User talk:Bishonen 	log · page history · topedits
32 	User talk:Flyer22 	log · page history · topedits
31 	User talk:Ignocrates 	log · page history · topedits
28 	User talk:Zad68 	log · page history · topedits
25 	User talk:Good Olfactory 	log · page history · topedits
24 	User talk:Kim Dent-Brown 	log · page history · topedits
24 	User talk:Obiwankenobi 	log · page history · topedits
23 	User talk:Bbb23 	log · page history · topedits
23 	User talk:HJ Mitchell 	log · page history · topedits
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Misplaced Pages
1107 	Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents 	log · page history · topedits
245 	Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard 	log · page history · topedits
133 	Misplaced Pages:Teahouse/Questions 	log · page history · topedits
72 	Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard 	log · page history · topedits
70 	Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement 	log · page history · topedits
46 	Misplaced Pages:Requests for undeletion 	log · page history · topedits
36 	Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case 	log · page history · topedits
33 	Misplaced Pages:Missing Wikipedians 	log · page history · topedits
30 	Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection 	log · page history · topedits
29 	Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard 	log · page history · topedits
28 	Misplaced Pages:Usernames for administrator attention 	log · page history · topedits
28 	Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions 	log · page history · topedits
28 	Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Ebionites 3/Workshop 	log · page history · topedits
24 	Misplaced Pages:Requests for undeletion/Archive 193 	log · page history · topedits
23 	Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Evidence 	log · page history · topedits
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Misplaced Pages talk
61 	Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for adminship 	log · page history · topedits
58 	Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration/Requests 	log · page history · topedits
42 	Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard 	log · page history · topedits
31 	Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee 	log · page history · topedits
31 	Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Judaism 	log · page history · topedits
21 	Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Editor Retention 	log · page history · topedits
21 	Misplaced Pages talk:Misplaced Pages Signpost 	log · page history · topedits
19 	Misplaced Pages talk:Top 25 Report 	log · page history · topedits
18 	Misplaced Pages talk:Missing Wikipedians 	log · page history · topedits
17 	Misplaced Pages talk:Categorization of people 	log · page history · topedits
16 	Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Ebionites 3/Workshop 	log · page history · topedits
16 	Misplaced Pages talk:Categories for discussion 	log · page history · topedits
15 	Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2013 	log · page history · topedits
14 	Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Council 	log · page history · topedits
14 	Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Clerks 	log · page history · topedits
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File
2 	File:Tom Selleck - publicity - 1980-1.jpg 	log · page history · topedits
2 	File:Irolas.jpg 	log · page history · topedits
2 	File:Graph of active admins, edits, and ratio of active admins to edits for each September, 2002-2013.png 	log · page history · topedits
2 	File:Graph of active admins and edit for each September, 2002-2013.png 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:Saint Maron.JPG 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:LudlowPostVandal1.jpg 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:American Dream (film).jpg 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:World-Fit-logo-childhood obesity programs - kids fitness programs - school fitness programs.png 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:LudlowPostVandal3.jpg 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:Admin-monthly.png 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File:Justin Bieber Signature.svg 	log · page history · topedits
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File talk
1 	File talk:Edvard Munch, Loving Woman (Madonna), 1895–1902, lithograph. Munch Museum, Oslo.gif 	log · page history · topedits
1 	File talk:Self Portrait with Skeleton Arm.jpg 	log · page history · topedits
MediaWiki talk
4 	MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist 	log · page history · topedits
4 	MediaWiki talk:Bad image list 	log · page history · topedits
1 	MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist 	log · page history · topedits
Template
17 	Template:ArbComOpenTasks/CaseRequests 	log · page history · topedits
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10 	Template:Gestures 	log · page history · topedits
10 	Template:ArbComOpenTasks/ClarificationAmendment 	log · page history · topedits
6 	Template:Jews by country 	log · page history · topedits
4 	Template:User Canon Law 	log · page history · topedits
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2 	Template:Religious Colleges and Schools in New Jersey 	log · page history · topedits
2 	Template:Arbitration talk archive navbox 	log · page history · topedits
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(Semi-)automated edits (approximate) 
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Worried

I gave glowing support. Now, after reading User:Iridescent's oppose, I am worried. I respect Iridescent enourmously. Before supporting, I spot-checked many of Liz's talk posts and found good manners. Maybe I was unlucky. Sometimes, it is necessary to read big discussions very thoroughly to know if someone is helping to diffuse and resolve rather than stir the pot and pick fights. I do not want to support an admin who has even a smidgen of those last characteristics. If anyone can provide diffs that conclusively show those, I will move to oppose at once. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:33, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure Iridescent's oppose can be taken that way, Anna. If you're working in contentious areas, it's pretty easy for those on the opposing side to pick diffs and say, "See! They were stirring the pot here!" or "Everything would have been okay if they just gave up and stopped arguing". I think you need to judge what they were fighting for. --NeilN 23:58, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Anna Frodesiak, I posted that oppose as a token gesture when this looked certain to finish well above 90%, and will freely admit to not doing a full contribution history check. In light of your comments, and the fact that this could theoretically end up in the discretionary zone, I'm going to go more thoroughly through her contributions and see if I've just happened to only encounter her on bad days. (It won't be until tomorrow, though, it's 1:30 am here.) I can't imagine I'll be moving to support—I'm not one of those who expects admins to have written FAs or GAs but I do expect to see some interest in what Misplaced Pages is actually about, and 7% mainspace edits, almost all minor, makes Newyorkbrad look like Diderot—but I'll be more than willing to strike the oppose if I feel I've been unfair. (When an RFA candidate can't give a single example in their "best work" section, it isn't a good sign; writing adequate-quality articles really isn't difficult for anyone who understands the basics of essay-writing, sourcing and wiki markup. To put that in perspective, tomorrow's TFA took about eight hours start-to-finish to write from a redlink.)
It is possible that because of the somewhat unusual combination of pages on my watchlist, which by definition includes a disproportionate number of high-drama pages, I'm only seeing her in environments where people are unusually combative. (I don't automatically assume a tendency to get into fights is an automatic fail—I was one of the co-noms on Malleus's RFA—but it needs to be outweighed by positives elsewhere, and my impression of this candidate has been of someone whose history consists solely of a mix of unnecessary stirring of other peoples' disputes, and hyper-minor edits.) What I will say, just doing a quick skim of recent article talk edits (generally the best way to get a feel for an editor's interests), is that her edit count in that particular namespace is massively inflated through the pointless but edit-count-inflating job of manually archiving threads one-by-one which were about to be archived by the bot anyway.
I'll update here tomorrow with either a retraction or an affirmation. – iridescent 00:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Well, I'm impressed. There is no way I could write a Featured article in just eight hours. Hawkeye7 (talk) 02:38, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Let's see: 20+ sources were carefully researched, winnowed out, found, read, and synthesized; 7 images were researched, found, uploaded (some of them), and captioned; and 23,000 bytes of deathless prose, with 44 footnotes, were written, formatted, edited, and refined, all within eight hours? That is impressive. Softlavender (talk) 02:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm impressed too. A good article, sure, but to write it to FA? Wow. I could never do that. GregJackP Boomer! 03:55, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Iri is scarily quick, but, so not to dishearten others, he has been doing a lot of Etty articles, & was I expect already very familiar with all the sources, & some sections like the bio are largely repeats from his other articles. Johnbod (talk) 13:40, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
That bio section does change between the Etty articles depending on which point of his career is being discussed, even if it's not always obvious. The time-saver here was having most of the bibliography already formatted and ready-to-go from The Wrestlers a couple of days earlier. A rough rule of thumb for how long something will take to write, assuming you have all the sources lined up and aren't going to spend time travelling to libraries, is 90 minutes per section excluding the lead for the prose, 30 minutes per image, plus one hour for writing the lead, formatting and a read-through for glaring errors. Obviously if you need to make a special trip to a reference library, or need to persuade someone to take a particular photo, the time shoots up. – iridescent 16:39, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Eight hours? That's it? How I wish I could do that; it took me days to write a 700-word GA... --Biblioworm 02:54, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

(←) Aside from agreeing with that whole 8 hours thing, I did look through some of Liz's AN/ANI contributions and did not notice a pattern of making problems worse (or even one off incidents), which is part of why I didn't consider that. If this helps. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 07:49, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

OK, I've just lost an hour of my life going through Liz's April–June contributions. (Going back further isn't usually worthwhile unless there's a specific concern, as people change; looking at the edits in the month running up to an RFA is also a pointless exercise, as candidates are generally posing for the cameras by then and avoiding anything contentious.) I'm going to strike that oppose, as aside from her baiting of Eric Corbett* I'm not seeing any major recent issues.
*The "content creators" diff everyone is raising can be discounted as a badly misfiring attempt at comedy, but I see no way to interpret her unsolicited comment here, which essentially translates as "we are discussing you in a publicly viewable forum but I order you not to read the discussion" as anything other than either intentional baiting to try to provoke a backlash, or spectacular cluelessness.
For the record, the (relatively minor) issues I did find are:
  1. Removing a film's cover image from the article on the film, explicitly on the WP:IDONTLIKEIT grounds that "I didn't feel like the image enhanced the article";
  2. Making an edit which negatively impacted a BLP by downplaying the subject's importance (a feature dancer is a famous name, usually from porn or modelling, who makes one-off appearances in strip clubs as a highly-paid headline draw; a stripper is someone gyrates on stage while drunk businessmen stuff banknotes into their garter), with the somewhat odd edit summary of "ME";
  3. This comment, which I'm sure is in the best of faith but shows a worrying eagerness to reach for the oversight button;
  4. This rather odd commentary, which I can only translate as "I want someone else to write about this because I can't be bothered to check the sources";
  5. This edit which can only be described as pot-stirring ("I know nothing about the subject of this article, but I'm sure it's wrong to list this many women"); five seconds background research would have shown that the notable figures in this field are disproportionately female.
None of these are any worse than I would expect to find if I went through the contributions of any editor with a fine-tooth comb. I won't be supporting for reasons outlined above—without the content Misplaced Pages is just Facebook for ugly people, and I don't consider it appropriate for people with no apparent interest in Misplaced Pages/Wikimedia's mission to be sitting in judgement over the people who actually do the work—but I won't actively oppose.
(Brief PS; that "eight hours" comment wasn't intended as the "hey, look how fast I am!" which some above seem to have taken it as, but as pointing out that "content writers" aren't some kind of supremely gifted elite. Anyone, working primarily from print sources on a topic with which they're familiar enough to judge reliability and relevance of sourcing, and where the topic is specialised enough that the article won't be a 10,000-word behemoth, can do the same.) – iridescent 10:00, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
"with the somewhat odd edit summary of "ME"" — I found the edit summary "ME" confusing the first time I saw it but after a few occurrences I worked out it meant "minor edit". (If you knew that already but were trying to say that it was strange to mark the edit as minor, or to comment "ME" when it's fairly obvious that the edit was marked minor, apologies.) — Bilorv(talk) 10:28, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • iridescent, the way you've withdrawn your Oppose, without striking it but instead indenting it, makes your "I can't support this" a reply to M.Altenmann -- which is confusing at best, insulting to him/her at worst (if read per the indenting). Best to actually strike, rather than indenting.... Softlavender (talk) 10:23, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Good point, forgot that MediaWiki screws with the indenting and double-indents when you indent a comment to take it out of the count. Fixed. – iridescent 10:31, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I acknowledge that I'm not a perfect candidate. There are areas where I don't have experience that some editors think is essential. There are times when I should have refrained from sarcasm but that is not my typical style of interacting with other editors. If you scrutinize my edits, you'll find I've done a ton of work recently in project space which I know isn't valued as highly as main space.
I still think I can do good work in the areas I've outlined in my answer to the first question. I decided to have an RfA in part because of the continued encouragement of other editors and admins to do so and I'm grateful for their faith in me and support. I take each oppose vote to heart as areas where I need to improve. Whether or not this RfA passes, this is valuable, albeit sometimes painful, feedback. I know that every editor who is participating in this process is basing their vote on what they think is best for the project and I can't fault that. Now, I will stay out of your discussion unless I see there are specific questions for me to address. Liz 11:01, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

O-kay, I'd be happy to see some work in an area you have expertise in. Not FA-writing but maybe GA review, RfC, FA support/oppose. Surely there are some articles out there that you have more than a lay-person's expertise in and can give some expert opinion in. This RfA still has four days to run. Your time starts now......Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:19, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
PS: I am sure you can find some area within sociology of race, gender and/or religion where you could do something to show your expertise, especially by providing quality sources pronto, which would not result in some armwrestle. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
If I may just offer a counter-point here, I don't think the purpose of an RfA is to make people jump through hoops. I don't think this would serve anybody, or any purpose. Samsara 14:15, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
You have your opinion and I have mine. My mind is open to be changed based on new evidence either way. If yours isn't then that is your issue not mine. I am sitting in the 'oppose' column as of now so telling her to ignore is not helping. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:01, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
It is too late to jump thru the hoops during the RfA. This remark shows Samsara don't quite understand the procedure. -M.Altenmann >t 15:05, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
I think I do. ;) Samsara 15:41, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
This isn't 2006 any more. For better or worse, the bar is a bit higher now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Look Samsara, I'll spell it out - If Liz won't edit in her field after specifically being asked by me on the promise of passing this RfA, then it means to me she can't. If she can't then she is lying about her field of expertise. If that is the case, then I think her persona is made up. If that is the case, then I think this needs to be exposed. I hope I am wrong. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:07, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Whoa...I have an undergrad in Psych and a grad in Stats, and I edit mostly food. I don't think I've edited ANY psych or stats articles. This is a really serious accusation. valereee (talk) 00:23, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Cas, I'm an attorney with two law degrees, and licensed in two states, but I've hardly touched law-related articles in my 6+ years on-wiki. I don't find it particularly relaxing to spend time editing legal topics after a contentious week of work. That said, is there anything specific that makes you think that the candidate's online persona, including academic credentials, is somehow inauthentic? That's a fairly serious question to raise . . . . Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
A salient point that echoes my opinion. Misplaced Pages is for many, like myself, an off-duty volunteer project. There's no requirement that anybody tell you anything about themselves. Liz could have gone the "I'd rather remain anonymous route" (like myself) and an could still make a great admin. Why must she edit in her field of expertise to take up the mop? That's not reasonable. Casliber's argument is a false dichotomy. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:48, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Okay there is context and there is context. If I'd seen Liz do some other content-work or given me some other reason to make me trust her (i.e anything that didn't appear as if it were carefully scripted to pass RFA and get to arbcom), then I wouldn't be here. I am also not influencing your vote. You can comment/vote however you like, it's a free 'pedia. I am clarifying what would satisfy me. e.g. @Dirtlawyer1: you made Fatima Island (New South Wales) (I keep meaning to take a photo of the thing each time I drive past :P) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:09, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Casliber, I'm really disheartened by the comment above. You have every right to oppose, but the accusation of lying about her area of expertise is bad faith exemplified. The Interior (Talk) 22:45, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
I am not accusing Liz of anything, just wondering as I can't imagine editing like that myself. And will be more than happy if my concerns are proven groundless. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:40, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Gamergate supporters who were annoyed by Liz's editing, dug through a chunk of her internet activity and personal info looking for dirt. If she was in anyway even remotely lying about anything on Misplaced Pages, they would be blaring at all over the internet. Your concerns are groundless. Brustopher (talk) 00:05, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Brustopher, what do you mean by "internet activity and personal info"? You mean her user contributions and user page info? Or do you mean more personal stuff? If the latter, where would they get the more personal stuff? By just knowing her previous IPs? Flyer22 (talk) 00:33, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
@Flyer22: I mean the latter. The accusations of her being Essjay number 2 are incorrect. Perhaps you shouldn't be inquiring into how to pry into the personal identity of another editor though. Brustopher (talk) 00:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Brustopher, and that is not what I was doing. I am well aware of the WP:Outing policy. I asked you a simple question (more than one) that does not require any reveal of personal information. And since you chose to attack me, including with your "shameful" edit summary, I will take your "internet activity and personal info" and "they would be blaring at all over the internet" claims with a grain of salt. Flyer22 (talk) 00:58, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Noting here that I now completely understand where Brustopher was coming from, and we've made apologizes on this matter (on my talk page). Again, sorry for causing any trouble. Flyer22 (talk) 21:17, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
I think it's generally accepted that at RfA, there is no requirement to assume good faith and take things at face value (keyword Essjay, nuff said). However, I also don't think that her adding some references really proves anything. Added to that, I have concerns about the notion that RfA gives us an opportunity to force people to do things they wouldn't normally do. Smacks of a lot of things that I think we should avoid (playground mentality, old boys' club). If the concern is that this is an editor who has artfully crafted a wiki-career in order to ascend to ArbCom, then that's an entirely different concern imo, and a valid one. However, I don't yet find myself able to pick a side in that particular debate. Samsara 23:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
@Samsara: I have obviously left it open as I am concerned by not totally convinced and could still be proven wrong, which I hope I will. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:51, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm very surprised by this whole thread, Casliber, because I'd normally associate your username with good sense. You cannot lay out the chain of reasoning in this post above and then go on to say "but I'm not accusing her of anything!". You directly implied that it is reasonable to conclude that a fellow volunteer must be lying if they choose not to spend their hobby time as you would prefer. Opabinia regalis (talk) 00:12, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
@Opabinia regalis: So I'm not allowed to query anything at all even if I find an editor's overall pattern of edits something I feel uncomfortable or not-quite-right with? Am I just supposed to keep quiet then? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:46, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
False dichotomy. There are options other than saying nothing, or posting a long, weird, baseless conspiracy theory implicitly accusing someone of dishonesty. Opabinia regalis (talk) 04:48, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
@Brustopher: it's not that hard to remain anonymous if one is careful.Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:48, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Not thrilled with this either. Implies "if you get doxxed, you must not have been careful enough." Opabinia regalis (talk) 04:48, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
@Casliber: What the flying baloney was the point of this comment? I mean seriously? Why did you make this comment? What does it have to do with any of the supposed issues you've raised, even remotely? Your concerns are proven to be wrong, and instead of saying something like: "Well ok then, sorry about the false accusations Liz. I was barking up the wrong tree. Still not voting for you though, because you don't write content," you're making petty comments about how she doesn't hide her personal info well enough. I can only hope you're acting like this because of a bad hair day or something, because otherwise you're proving your own unsuitability to be an admin instead of Liz's. Brustopher (talk) 09:19, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
(Sigh) that didn't come out right. Of course no-one deserves to get doxxed like that. So consider that stricken. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:53, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
I agree with the comment above that one doesn't don't find it particularly relaxing to spend time editing on topics with one works with after a contentious week of work, as Dirtlawyer1 said. I am landscape architect and I almost never edit those topics. However I do edit topics that are INSPIRING to my work, if you understand how I think. Arts, about colours, stuff like that. However I find this discussion a bit confusing, things were so clear from the beginning. Hafspajen (talk) 23:19, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

From the candidate

Hey, folks. I have stayed away from this talk page because, frankly, it's uncomfortable to watch editors scrutinize ones edits, experience, background and character, even though I know it is part of this whole process. I also think that editors who take the time to participate in an RfA should have a place to talk about the process that isn't a rebuttal of other editor's votes which can lead to long and unwieldy discussion threads.

All I want to say is that you have any questions about me, please just ask me, either here or in the question section.

To answer a question that has come up, yes, I was doxxed in December on a Gamergate message board called 8Chan and last year on Wikipediocracy after I made a statement about WikiConUSA that a member there took issue with. I think the first is what Brustopher is referring to. When I started editing the Gamergate article on Misplaced Pages around February, I removed all personal identifying information on my user page. I then put some of it back in anticipation of this RfA because I don't want to have anything to hide from fellow Wikipedian editors. I didn't get threats of violence from the doxxing but it's not pleasant to read through a message board, reading people going through ones LinkedIn profile and discussing contacting the places you worked. But, lucky for me, the Gamergate crew had more appealing targets than boring old me and they moved on. That was it, it happened, I consider myself fairly lucky and this is more of an explanation that an attempt to get anyone's sympathy. Bad stuff happens on the internet every day and hopefully little of it happens here.

I'll leave you here to discuss whatever you want and I'll just check by Saturday morning and Sunday morning to see if you have any questions for me that you don't want to post on the main page. Thanks for taking some of your precious editing time to consider my candidacy. Have a good weekend, Liz 01:20, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining, Liz. I'm sorry you had to endure all that. You were involved in some matters with Lightbreather, correct? I mainly stayed away from all that. Dealing with similar attitudes at the Sexism article, and all the other contentious areas I work in, is enough for me. What I wanted to know from Brustopher above is whether the harassers used information you shared on Misplaced Pages to try to cause you harm or whether they went some extra effort. Again, I'm sorry you went through all that. Flyer22 (talk) 01:31, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Questions to Liz

I am trying to add the following questions to the RFA, but I cannot see the template:

Those look like questions that could only be answered properly after a good deal of research and analysis. What makes you think the candidate should spend her wiki-time over the next couple of days (before the RFA closes) writing essays on subjects you've chosen? DexDor 21:35, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:ANI

In past few weeks, I never got any answer from Liz in teahouse as the nominator mentioned. Still, the way people are declaring her participation in ANI as ANI drama is a bit harsh. She is an arbitration clerk (her Userpage states). I disagree that Liz's contribution to ANI is bad. And to all those arguing about content creation,.. no one is master of all trades. --Aero Slicer 17:57, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

If it wasn't for content creators there would be no website and, as such, no admin's. This isn't a chicken and egg scenario; the answer in terms of importance is evident. Cassianto 18:02, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Okay we get the idea......Now can you create a content as Gamma ray and let Kudpung create an article as Cell biology and then take it to featured article. Those who can create articles like that, i will challenge them to create an article like Microeconomics and develop it.
A Hospital needs doctor, but a doctor can't work without Nurse. A Nurse can't work without the ward boys. There are sweepers who clean the floor and remove medical garbages. There are physiotherapists and Hospital security along with the clerk who keeps tab on bill payment. Now I will ask you and Kudpung, to run a Hospital with only Doctors (you will not have any nurse, Wardboy, Cleaners, pharmacists, electrician, gatekeeper, janitor, management). --Aero Slicer 18:11, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
I haven't got a fucking clue what your on about, but thanks for coming. Cassianto 18:13, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
He wants to say that you can't run a wiki on article writers alone; you need administrators to kick out vandals, mediators to solve disputes etc. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:26, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
You do, yes, but it is essential they know how content creation works in order to police it. Cassianto 18:34, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Yep. And Liz chided me on some civility schtick while completely missing the real point, perhaps because she has so little experience of content work - the discussion spread across several pages eventually but the nub of it is here. - Sitush (talk) 18:49, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
And its exchanges like that Sitush which makes me think further that Liz and people like her shouldn't be anywhere near a mop. I bet 100% of the supporters don't even know about that exchange. Will that last one please turn off the light! Cassianto 21:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
I think Aero is saying that janitors perform an important role in hospitals, so hospitals should be run by janitors instead of doctors. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:33, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I got it in the end and feel desperately sad that that kind of thinking exists. His stupid analogy suggests that although we would all be working in beautifully clean conditions, death and disease among the community would be rife. Cassianto 21:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)