Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 04:11, 24 August 2015 editArthur Rubin (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers130,168 edits →Statement by Arthur Rubin: reply← Previous edit		Revision as of 04:15, 24 August 2015 edit undoTimotheus Canens (talk \| contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators38,430 edits →Collect: closeNext edit →
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	==Collect==		==Collect==
			{{hat\| Consensus is that this request is not actionable. ] (]) 04:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

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	*I agree with ]. This complaint also strikes me as being made in bad faith. The filer is clearly someone trying to evade scrutiny while attempting to seek action against another Wikipedian. Poor form, use your regular account to complain about others if it is not already blocked. ] 22:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)		*I agree with ]. This complaint also strikes me as being made in bad faith. The filer is clearly someone trying to evade scrutiny while attempting to seek action against another Wikipedian. Poor form, use your regular account to complain about others if it is not already blocked. ] 22:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
	*No action warranted. Let's close this one. ] (]) 01:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)		*No action warranted. Let's close this one. ] (]) 01:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
			{{hab}}

	==Arthur Rubin==		==Arthur Rubin==

Revision as of 04:15, 24 August 2015

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Peter Gulutzan

No consensus for action. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Peter Gulutzan User who is submitting this request for enforcement Mann jess (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Peter Gulutzan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change : Reposting. I believe this behavior warrants further review, and since Peter Gulutzan posted an AE request against NEG instead of pursuing requests for dispute resolution shows the problem is escalating, not resolving itself. Below is my comment on that thread, but other editors (User:ArtifexMayhem and User:Manul) posted additional info I won't reproduce on their behalf. Split comments per request. --- Peter Gulutzan and Tillman are both editing tendentiously. It appears they dislike our coverage of climate change and "climate change skepticism", since we represent the mainstream scientific view, and so have been campaigning to hide or limit our coverage of those topics. For example, they are attempting to ensure as few redirects as possible go to climate change denial, where our coverage is extensive, and instead point our viewers to Global warming controversy, which they see as more sympathetic to the fringe view. In this campaign, several behavioral problems have made collaboration impossible. Both have dismissed high quality sources which disagree with their edits, while providing no sources of their own. They have both refused to answer questions or collaborate with others. They have edit warred extensively, and promoted a battleground atmosphere, labeling others "activists" and too biased to find the right sources. Diffs: Not answering questions: , , , , , , , to NEG below Strangely, he accused me of not answering his questions, but then didn't answer me when I asked what question I'd missed. NewsAndEventsGuy asked us both to summarize what questions had gone unanswered. I provided a list, but Peter refused to answer. Battleground behavior: , Both editors keep misrepresenting others (e.g. by claiming I equate all "skeptics" to "deniers")) Peter repeats this claim, then insists on seeing a citation for it EW. While discussion ongoing, reverted 11 pages to his preferred version. , , , , , , , , , , Aware of DS: — Jess· Δ ♥ 03:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Adding a note to prevent archiving. Several admins have commented that they have concerns, but there hasn't been any action taken, or discussion to close the case. — Jess· Δ ♥ 20:45, 4 August 2015 (UTC) Discussion concerning Peter Gulutzan Statement by Manul Note that Peter Gulutzan was alerted to climate change discretionary sanctions on 18 March 2015, earlier than indicated above. Peter's comment on that date is indicative of his general attitude: By now I have grown used to editors who try to intimidate me with accusations which they pretend could lead to blocking. I'm going to make this a standard reply: hit me with your best shot, eh? This was despite my cordial disclaimer ("Apologies if you were previously alerted; I didn't find a tag in your history"), and our only prior interaction was a couple comments on the article talk page that were non-personal and on-topic. Peter proceeded to violate WP:BLPPRIVACY, reverting my removal from the BLP of a link to a website publishing the subject's personal address. He did this despite the WP:BLPPRIVACY problem already mentioned on the talk page, even replying to it. This is either blind reverting without care for the reasons behind a change, or worse. The situation has not since improved. Most recently Peter claimed that I added a "smear" to the article "without attribution", saying in the edit comment, you don't "clean up" by pouring dirt. The over-the-top personalization from Peter is typical, but more importantly the claim is untrue. My change to the lead cited high-quality reliable sources, and it merely restated what had been in the article body for a month using the same sources. Considering the above diffs from myself and others, the disruption appears to stem from Peter's inability to approach the subject dispassionately, imparting a narrative of personalized conflict where editors are simply trying to use the best sources and report them accurately. Manul ~ talk 04:21, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Reply to Peter: Re WP:BLPPRIVACY, to be absolutely clear, the timeline is: Peter reverts, restoring Watts' personal address in the article, with edit comment See talk page "Improving the lead". Ten minutes later, he replies to my comment about BLPPRIVACY in the thread "Improving the lead". This is the right comment; I did not link to the wrong one. Either Peter didn't read the comment to which he replied -- blindly reverting -- or he willingly violated BLPPRIVACY. Despite the government website clearly showing Anthony Watts' personal address, he later tried to justify his change by saying it was IntelliWeather's address. I pointed out that IntelliWeather is registered to his home address, as are his other domains. I agree 100% with the Jimbo Wales quote. It is a recurring theme that discussion about accurately characterizing the WUWT blog as a climate change denialism blog (which it is, according to high-quality and scholarly sources) will eventually be derailed by a switch to characterizing Watts as a "denier". It is a red herring, and I have said so in discussions where Peter has participated. When the switch happens, as Peter has done in this AE, the conversation is destined to go round and round. Manul ~ talk 22:01, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Statement by Peter Gulutzan Re Mann jess's accusations ... Re "Peter Gulutzan posted an AE request against NEG instead of pursuing requests for dispute resolution": I indeed made a request for dispute resolution re redirection to Global warming controversy or Climate change denial, saying "... if anyone from either side agrees at least in principle that consensus or arbitration should be sought, please state preferred venue and wording.". No reply. Re pointing to something "more sympathetic to the fringe view": no, I said "slightly less vicious redirect", that is, I care about people who are accused of having the view. Re: "dismissed high quality sources": they're poor quality, I tried to discuss sources despite Mann jess calling my complaints "nonsense" and "insane" and "nonsense"). I questioned repeatedly what these sources supposedly support. No reply. Re me labelling editors as "activists" or calling them "too biased to find the right sources": no diffs. I've no idea what Mann jess is talking about. Re me refusing questions from NewsAndEventsGuy: question was prefaced with accusations that I said I found offensive, I explained at WP:AE#NewsAndEventsGuy. Re I "didn't answer me when I asked what questions I'd missed": look at the diff Mann jess supplied. Mann jess misquoted me twice using quote marks, I objected, Mann jess misquoted again and asked "What sources are being overlooked or misinterpreted?" (not "what questions I'd missed"), I answered "As for the question about sources, I have no idea what it refers to". Re "battleground behavior": no, I said on my talk page "I'm acknowledging the existence of a battle" meaning I thought others did it, and "hit me with your best shot, eh? " meaning I thought others intended it. Re "claiming equate all 'skeptics' to 'deniers'": I didn't say that, I said it's necessary to show all skeptics are deniers if you're going to change so all redirects for skeptics point to denial. Re "EW": Look at the 11 diffs: the first doesn't revert anything, the tenth was self-reverted on July 9, the others were all restorations to the state before the dispute began, which is normal when no consensus. Re Manul's accusations ... Re "Peter's comment on that date is indicative ...", my note about deleting that comment from my talk page is here. Re WP:BLPPRIVACY: when Manul refers to my reply he shows the wrong link, my actual reply on March 18 is here, please read it rather than Manul's link. Re "you don't clean up by pouring dirt": Manul made a section heading which uses a hurrah! phrase "cleaning up", I balanced with a boo! phrase "pouring dirt". I mentioned "without attribution" because the text did not attribute the words "climate change denial" in the lead to the sources (I distinguish attribution from citation and I believe WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV does). Re "editors are simply trying to use the best sources": I don't think editors agree what sources are best, I agree with Jimbo Wales. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 15:18, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Update: I had to trim my post above so that it would be 490 words, without changing content. I cannot reply to anything else unless administrators permit me to go well over the limit. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 01:49, 24 July 2015 (UTC) Administrators: I request permission to reply to statements made after the post by Mann jess and the first comment from Manul. So far I've used 490 words, versus around 1200 words. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:34, 25 July 2015 (UTC) UPDATE ... Okay, I have permission to reply. Manul says: "Peter reverts, restoring Watts' personal address in the article". That is false. Watts's personal address was not in the article either before or after any edit that I did. Instead there was a cite for Watts's company = a government site containing addresses, added by JournalScholar in 2012. Although this is not a valid WP:AE issue (I had not received a DS alert at the time I did that revert), I'll point out anyway that: (1) the edit which I reverted contained two things, removal of the citation AND addition of the claim that Watts "runs the climate denialism website 'WattsUpWithThat'", a contentious statement about a living person with what I regarded as poor sourcing, and WP:BLPREMOVE says such things should be removed "immediately". (2) In fact I myself removed the citation, 76 minutes later, and wrote "... I acknowledge that such government-related sites shouldn't be publicized by Misplaced Pages and have replaced with a reference to WUWT which merely says Watts runs IntelliWeather. I apologize for the delay in making this change." Manul's sources are low quality and the majority of known reliable sources say the blog is skeptic, compare the entries from S Philbrick's lists (ignore the junk) here and here. But I'll happily leave that content dispute aside if Manul stops bringing it up. What's an issue is whether I engaged in misconduct at times when I insisted that sources have to be good enough for BLP -- which I did. To redirect "Climate change skeptic" etc. affects many BLPs, and to make the first sentence of a BLP contain a denigration, about the main thing the person is known for, is denigrating a person. Sure, some people say otherwise. But taking me to WP:AE is more than disagreement. Penwhale: I hope you will consider that my reply to Manul, and my diffs showing some of the explanation how denial got in the lead of WUWT, may have a bearing on your initial remarks. Re Artifex Mayhem: I'm accused of violating an essay, and of performing battleground behaviour. The details are that I used the words "side", "misleading", and "destroyed". If the contention were that sides, statements that mislead, and destruction never in fact existed, or are WP:WTW words, there would be something to answer here. Re JzG: I issued a DS notice two days after JzG referred to a BLP subject as a "swivel-eyed loon". I was not aware that administrators are exempt from DS notices. I deny that I am a single-purpose account, I have done hundreds of non-climate edits and created seven non-climate articles (Burr, Saskatchewan, Edenbridge, Saskatchewan, Points North Landing, Saskatchewan, The Sheepdogs, Peavey Mart, Aspy Bay, YCSB). I also deny JzG's "assessment" of me, but shouldn't need to, unsupported speculations about my defects don't belong here or anywhere. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 16:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC) Statement by ArtifexMayhem Over the past few months civil (mostly) POV pushing by Peter Gulutzan (talk · contribs) (along with Tillman (talk · contribs)) has been a primary source of disruption in the topic area. The recent filing of this WP:AE request by Peter Gulutzan against NewsAndEventsGuy was without merit and should be considered vexatious (and sucessfully so as NewsAndEventsGuy has retired from the project for 12 months). Examples of battleground behavior, Groups editors into factions e.g., the "put-denialism-in" side, . Considers another editors calling one of his reverts a "removal of information" to be "misleading" , while edits by others are considered done with the intent to "destroy" information . — ArtifexMayhem (talk) 23:09, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Statement by JzG Peter Gulutzan issued a DS notice to me regarding climate change. This does not bother me at all. It is a little weird for an effective WP:SPA to issue an administrator with a DS notice, but there you go. My assessment of Gulutzan's edits is that he simply does not care what the scientific consensus is, he wants Misplaced Pages to reflect the world as he believes it to be, not the world as science says it actually is. The fundamental issue is that climate change "skepticism" is pseudoskepticism, which is synonymous with denialism. Not a form of denialism, synonymous with it. Like the Australian Vaccination-Skeptics Network, who are vaccine denialists. Guy (Help!) 16:49, 24 July 2015 (UTC) Statement by Tillman I believe the complaint against Peter Gulutzan is without merit and and should be dismissed. Further, I believe the real problem here lies with the originating editor, Mann Jess. She succeeded with her complaint here against AQFK last month: link. The present complaint started out as a side-complaint against both PG & myself. By a curious coincidence, these are the three editors who were having the most problems working with editor Jess at the Anthony Watts (blogger) and his WUWT blog pages at our encyclopedia. On this topic, a fourth editor has remarked: "Mann Jess is vexatious and tendentious. In a controversial topic area Mann Jess often uses the most inflammatory language that is not encyclopedic. The worst instances are in BLP's like Watt's but extend elsewhere." For some time, I’ve been considering filing an ArbComm complaint re Mann Jess’s editing behavior in the CC area, especially in the case of Anthony Watts (blogger) and his WUWT blog. I regard her actions there as unencyclopedic, uncollegial, egregious POV pushing, tendentious editing and, in general, I found her impossible to deal with as a fellow-editor. She's certainly single-minded (imo). Other editors who couldn't deal with her vexatious editing included both Gulutzan and AQFK. A pattern emerges. I certainly don’t have time for that now — I don’t really have time to mount a refutation of her charges here, except to note that many appear to be "ruffled feathers". And I hate this sort of unproductive posturing and name-calling. It's also troubling that MJ (and others) could be putting the project into legal jeopardy. I believe Anthony Watts was receiving legal advice, and perhaps offers of pro bono legal representation, for filing a defamation and slander lawsuit against Misplaced Pages's parent for the attempted labelling of Watts as a "climate change denier" by MJ and collaborating editors. Watts emphatically rejects this charge. I don't think he expressed any interest in actually filing a suit. I'll research this further for my formal complaint against Editor Jess. This may take some time to prepare, as I am under severe time constraints for prior committments, to at least the end of the following week. I would welcome help in preparing a complaint againt Mann Jess, who I believe is doing substantial damage to the integrity of the Project. Thank you, Pete Tillman (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2015 (UTC) Statement by JBL I think the behavior with respect to NewsAndEventsGuy, a consummate good-faith, consensus-building editor, was an enormous shame. Obviously in practice the articles related to Anthony Watts and climate change denialism are a massive battleground, and NAEG was one of the few editors who really seemed to be interested in doing a decent job with them, respecting sourcing etc. The attacks by Gulutzan on NAEG were really shameful, and have (at least temporarily) driven off a great editor. --JBL (talk) 14:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by NewsAndEventsGuy @JBL, while I appreciate the kind words, I disavow the notion that Peter's remarks "drove (me) off". I still log in to see if anyone refers to me, and since you did so I would just like to say that I've been feeling pressed from a lot of real life quarters of late, and quite frankly find little reward in organizing the diffs to demonstrate anyone's violation of WP:ARBCC#Battleground editing. Peter was just a minor thing that put my decision to make a long retirement seem timely. Nothing should be read into my decision viz-a-viz the extent of Peter's disruption or non-disruption. His record of diffs should be read without regard to other factors, and we should trust diligent admins to act accordingly. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC) Result concerning Peter Gulutzan This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Manul's 4th point in the bullet list is telling; also, since it is clear that no one disagrees with the fact that Watt runs WUWT and the lead of WUWT does say Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog dedicated to climate change skepticism or denial created in 2006 by Anthony Watts (both as of this edit and on June 27 when Manul made the edit to Watts), I find Peter's position in this discussion to be extremely weak. However, I will wait for others to comment before assessing more. - Penwhale \| 06:13, 23 July 2015 (UTC) @Peter Gulutzan: You can reply, yes. - Penwhale \| 20:19, 27 July 2015 (UTC) I see no consensus; closing as NC to act (no action taken). Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

No consensus for action. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Peter Gulutzan

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Mann jess (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Peter Gulutzan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change :

Reposting. I believe this behavior warrants further review, and since Peter Gulutzan posted an AE request against NEG instead of pursuing requests for dispute resolution shows the problem is escalating, not resolving itself. Below is my comment on that thread, but other editors (User:ArtifexMayhem and User:Manul) posted additional info I won't reproduce on their behalf. Split comments per request.

---

Peter Gulutzan and Tillman are both editing tendentiously. It appears they dislike our coverage of climate change and "climate change skepticism", since we represent the mainstream scientific view, and so have been campaigning to hide or limit our coverage of those topics. For example, they are attempting to ensure as few redirects as possible go to climate change denial, where our coverage is extensive, and instead point our viewers to Global warming controversy, which they see as more sympathetic to the fringe view. In this campaign, several behavioral problems have made collaboration impossible.

Both have dismissed high quality sources which disagree with their edits, while providing no sources of their own. They have both refused to answer questions or collaborate with others. They have edit warred extensively, and promoted a battleground atmosphere, labeling others "activists" and too biased to find the right sources.

Diffs:

Not answering questions: , , , , , , , to NEG below
- Strangely, he accused me of not answering his questions, but then didn't answer me when I asked what question I'd missed. NewsAndEventsGuy asked us both to summarize what questions had gone unanswered. I provided a list, but Peter refused to answer.

Battleground behavior: ,

Both editors keep misrepresenting others (e.g. by claiming I equate all "skeptics" to "deniers")) Peter repeats this claim, then insists on seeing a citation for it

EW. While discussion ongoing, reverted 11 pages to his preferred version. , , , , , , , , , ,
Aware of DS:

— Jess· Δ ♥ 03:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Adding a note to prevent archiving. Several admins have commented that they have concerns, but there hasn't been any action taken, or discussion to close the case. — Jess· Δ ♥ 20:45, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Peter Gulutzan

Statement by Manul

Note that Peter Gulutzan was alerted to climate change discretionary sanctions on 18 March 2015, earlier than indicated above.

Peter's comment on that date is indicative of his general attitude:
By now I have grown used to editors who try to intimidate me with accusations which they pretend could lead to blocking. I'm going to make this a standard reply: hit me with your best shot, eh?
This was despite my cordial disclaimer ("Apologies if you were previously alerted; I didn't find a tag in your history"), and our only prior interaction was a couple comments on the article talk page that were non-personal and on-topic.

Peter proceeded to violate WP:BLPPRIVACY, reverting my removal from the BLP of a link to a website publishing the subject's personal address. He did this despite the WP:BLPPRIVACY problem already mentioned on the talk page, even replying to it. This is either blind reverting without care for the reasons behind a change, or worse.

The situation has not since improved. Most recently Peter claimed that I added a "smear" to the article "without attribution", saying in the edit comment, you don't "clean up" by pouring dirt. The over-the-top personalization from Peter is typical, but more importantly the claim is untrue. My change to the lead cited high-quality reliable sources, and it merely restated what had been in the article body for a month using the same sources.

Considering the above diffs from myself and others, the disruption appears to stem from Peter's inability to approach the subject dispassionately, imparting a narrative of personalized conflict where editors are simply trying to use the best sources and report them accurately.

Manul ~ talk 04:21, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Reply to Peter:

Re WP:BLPPRIVACY, to be absolutely clear, the timeline is:

Peter reverts, restoring Watts' personal address in the article, with edit comment See talk page "Improving the lead".
Ten minutes later, he replies to my comment about BLPPRIVACY in the thread "Improving the lead". This is the right comment; I did not link to the wrong one.
Either Peter didn't read the comment to which he replied -- blindly reverting -- or he willingly violated BLPPRIVACY.
Despite the government website clearly showing Anthony Watts' personal address, he later tried to justify his change by saying it was IntelliWeather's address. I pointed out that IntelliWeather is registered to his home address, as are his other domains.

I agree 100% with the Jimbo Wales quote. It is a recurring theme that discussion about accurately characterizing the WUWT blog as a climate change denialism blog (which it is, according to high-quality and scholarly sources) will eventually be derailed by a switch to characterizing Watts as a "denier". It is a red herring, and I have said so in discussions where Peter has participated. When the switch happens, as Peter has done in this AE, the conversation is destined to go round and round.

Manul ~ talk 22:01, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Peter Gulutzan

Re Mann jess's accusations ...

Re "Peter Gulutzan posted an AE request against NEG instead of pursuing requests for dispute resolution": I indeed made a request for dispute resolution re redirection to Global warming controversy or Climate change denial, saying "... if anyone from either side agrees at least in principle that consensus or arbitration should be sought, please state preferred venue and wording.". No reply.

Re pointing to something "more sympathetic to the fringe view": no, I said "slightly less vicious redirect", that is, I care about people who are accused of having the view.

Re: "dismissed high quality sources": they're poor quality, I tried to discuss sources despite Mann jess calling my complaints "nonsense" and "insane" and "nonsense"). I questioned repeatedly what these sources supposedly support. No reply.

Re me labelling editors as "activists" or calling them "too biased to find the right sources": no diffs. I've no idea what Mann jess is talking about.

Re me refusing questions from NewsAndEventsGuy: question was prefaced with accusations that I said I found offensive, I explained at WP:AE#NewsAndEventsGuy.

Re I "didn't answer me when I asked what questions I'd missed": look at the diff Mann jess supplied. Mann jess misquoted me twice using quote marks, I objected, Mann jess misquoted again and asked "What sources are being overlooked or misinterpreted?" (not "what questions I'd missed"), I answered "As for the question about sources, I have no idea what it refers to".

Re "battleground behavior": no, I said on my talk page "I'm acknowledging the existence of a battle" meaning I thought others did it, and "hit me with your best shot, eh? " meaning I thought others intended it.

Re "claiming equate all 'skeptics' to 'deniers'": I didn't say that, I said it's necessary to show all skeptics are deniers if you're going to change so all redirects for skeptics point to denial.

Re "EW": Look at the 11 diffs: the first doesn't revert anything, the tenth was self-reverted on July 9, the others were all restorations to the state before the dispute began, which is normal when no consensus.

Re Manul's accusations ...

Re "Peter's comment on that date is indicative ...", my note about deleting that comment from my talk page is here.

Re WP:BLPPRIVACY: when Manul refers to my reply he shows the wrong link, my actual reply on March 18 is here, please read it rather than Manul's link.

Re "you don't clean up by pouring dirt": Manul made a section heading which uses a hurrah! phrase "cleaning up", I balanced with a boo! phrase "pouring dirt". I mentioned "without attribution" because the text did not attribute the words "climate change denial" in the lead to the sources (I distinguish attribution from citation and I believe WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV does).

Re "editors are simply trying to use the best sources": I don't think editors agree what sources are best, I agree with Jimbo Wales. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 15:18, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Update: I had to trim my post above so that it would be 490 words, without changing content. I cannot reply to anything else unless administrators permit me to go well over the limit. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 01:49, 24 July 2015 (UTC) Administrators: I request permission to reply to statements made after the post by Mann jess and the first comment from Manul. So far I've used 490 words, versus around 1200 words. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:34, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE ... Okay, I have permission to reply.

Manul says: "Peter reverts, restoring Watts' personal address in the article". That is false. Watts's personal address was not in the article either before or after any edit that I did. Instead there was a cite for Watts's company = a government site containing addresses, added by JournalScholar in 2012. Although this is not a valid WP:AE issue (I had not received a DS alert at the time I did that revert), I'll point out anyway that: (1) the edit which I reverted contained two things, removal of the citation AND addition of the claim that Watts "runs the climate denialism website 'WattsUpWithThat'", a contentious statement about a living person with what I regarded as poor sourcing, and WP:BLPREMOVE says such things should be removed "immediately". (2) In fact I myself removed the citation, 76 minutes later, and wrote "... I acknowledge that such government-related sites shouldn't be publicized by Misplaced Pages and have replaced with a reference to WUWT which merely says Watts runs IntelliWeather. I apologize for the delay in making this change."

Manul's sources are low quality and the majority of known reliable sources say the blog is skeptic, compare the entries from S Philbrick's lists (ignore the junk) here and here. But I'll happily leave that content dispute aside if Manul stops bringing it up. What's an issue is whether I engaged in misconduct at times when I insisted that sources have to be good enough for BLP -- which I did. To redirect "Climate change skeptic" etc. affects many BLPs, and to make the first sentence of a BLP contain a denigration, about the main thing the person is known for, is denigrating a person. Sure, some people say otherwise. But taking me to WP:AE is more than disagreement.

Penwhale: I hope you will consider that my reply to Manul, and my diffs showing some of the explanation how denial got in the lead of WUWT, may have a bearing on your initial remarks.

Re Artifex Mayhem: I'm accused of violating an essay, and of performing battleground behaviour. The details are that I used the words "side", "misleading", and "destroyed". If the contention were that sides, statements that mislead, and destruction never in fact existed, or are WP:WTW words, there would be something to answer here.

Re JzG: I issued a DS notice two days after JzG referred to a BLP subject as a "swivel-eyed loon". I was not aware that administrators are exempt from DS notices. I deny that I am a single-purpose account, I have done hundreds of non-climate edits and created seven non-climate articles (Burr, Saskatchewan, Edenbridge, Saskatchewan, Points North Landing, Saskatchewan, The Sheepdogs, Peavey Mart, Aspy Bay, YCSB). I also deny JzG's "assessment" of me, but shouldn't need to, unsupported speculations about my defects don't belong here or anywhere. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 16:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by ArtifexMayhem

Over the past few months civil (mostly) POV pushing by Peter Gulutzan (talk · contribs) (along with Tillman (talk · contribs)) has been a primary source of disruption in the topic area.

The recent filing of this WP:AE request by Peter Gulutzan against NewsAndEventsGuy was without merit and should be considered vexatious (and sucessfully so as NewsAndEventsGuy has retired from the project for 12 months).

Examples of battleground behavior,

Groups editors into factions e.g., the "put-denialism-in" side, .

Considers another editors calling one of his reverts a "removal of information" to be "misleading" , while edits by others are considered done with the intent to "destroy" information .

— ArtifexMayhem (talk) 23:09, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

Peter Gulutzan issued a DS notice to me regarding climate change. This does not bother me at all. It is a little weird for an effective WP:SPA to issue an administrator with a DS notice, but there you go.

My assessment of Gulutzan's edits is that he simply does not care what the scientific consensus is, he wants Misplaced Pages to reflect the world as he believes it to be, not the world as science says it actually is. The fundamental issue is that climate change "skepticism" is pseudoskepticism, which is synonymous with denialism. Not a form of denialism, synonymous with it. Like the Australian Vaccination-Skeptics Network, who are vaccine denialists. Guy (Help!) 16:49, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tillman

I believe the complaint against Peter Gulutzan is without merit and and should be dismissed.

Further, I believe the real problem here lies with the originating editor, Mann Jess. She succeeded with her complaint here against AQFK last month: link. The present complaint started out as a side-complaint against both PG & myself. By a curious coincidence, these are the three editors who were having the most problems working with editor Jess at the Anthony Watts (blogger) and his WUWT blog pages at our encyclopedia. On this topic, a fourth editor has remarked:

"Mann Jess is vexatious and tendentious. In a controversial topic area Mann Jess often uses the most inflammatory language that is not encyclopedic. The worst instances are in BLP's like Watt's but extend elsewhere."

For some time, I’ve been considering filing an ArbComm complaint re Mann Jess’s editing behavior in the CC area, especially in the case of Anthony Watts (blogger) and his WUWT blog. I regard her actions there as unencyclopedic, uncollegial, egregious POV pushing, tendentious editing and, in general, I found her impossible to deal with as a fellow-editor. She's certainly single-minded (imo). Other editors who couldn't deal with her vexatious editing included both Gulutzan and AQFK. A pattern emerges.

I certainly don’t have time for that now — I don’t really have time to mount a refutation of her charges here, except to note that many appear to be "ruffled feathers". And I hate this sort of unproductive posturing and name-calling.

It's also troubling that MJ (and others) could be putting the project into legal jeopardy. I believe Anthony Watts was receiving legal advice, and perhaps offers of pro bono legal representation, for filing a defamation and slander lawsuit against Misplaced Pages's parent for the attempted labelling of Watts as a "climate change denier" by MJ and collaborating editors. Watts emphatically rejects this charge. I don't think he expressed any interest in actually filing a suit. I'll research this further for my formal complaint against Editor Jess. This may take some time to prepare, as I am under severe time constraints for prior committments, to at least the end of the following week. I would welcome help in preparing a complaint againt Mann Jess, who I believe is doing substantial damage to the integrity of the Project. Thank you, Pete Tillman (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Statement by JBL

I think the behavior with respect to NewsAndEventsGuy, a consummate good-faith, consensus-building editor, was an enormous shame. Obviously in practice the articles related to Anthony Watts and climate change denialism are a massive battleground, and NAEG was one of the few editors who really seemed to be interested in doing a decent job with them, respecting sourcing etc. The attacks by Gulutzan on NAEG were really shameful, and have (at least temporarily) driven off a great editor. --JBL (talk) 14:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by NewsAndEventsGuy

@JBL, while I appreciate the kind words, I disavow the notion that Peter's remarks "drove (me) off". I still log in to see if anyone refers to me, and since you did so I would just like to say that I've been feeling pressed from a lot of real life quarters of late, and quite frankly find little reward in organizing the diffs to demonstrate anyone's violation of WP:ARBCC#Battleground editing. Peter was just a minor thing that put my decision to make a long retirement seem timely. Nothing should be read into my decision viz-a-viz the extent of Peter's disruption or non-disruption. His record of diffs should be read without regard to other factors, and we should trust diligent admins to act accordingly. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Result concerning Peter Gulutzan

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Manul's 4th point in the bullet list is telling; also, since it is clear that no one disagrees with the fact that Watt runs WUWT and the lead of WUWT does say Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog dedicated to climate change skepticism or denial created in 2006 by Anthony Watts (both as of this edit and on June 27 when Manul made the edit to Watts), I find Peter's position in this discussion to be extremely weak. However, I will wait for others to comment before assessing more. - Penwhale | 06:13, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

@Peter Gulutzan: You can reply, yes. - Penwhale | 20:19, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I see no consensus; closing as NC to act (no action taken). Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Collect

Consensus for "no action" (although almost everyone seems to have a different rationale for "no action"). --Floquenbeam (talk) 11:51, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Collect User who is submitting this request for enforcement 2600:1000:B001:1FC2:9E5E:5DCF:BF25:8FF8 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:31, 20 August 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Collect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect_and_others#Collect_topic-banned_.28option_2.29 : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 20 Aug 2015 Reverts contentious edit to Josh Duggar. Josh Duggar is a former executive director of the political action committee of the Family Research Council. Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 13 July 2015 Collect was blocked for a week for violating his topic ban. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above. Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Collect has been forum shopping this topic at BLPN and at Jimbo's talk page. This is behavior consonant with this finding of fact in his arbitration case. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Collect Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Collect I suggest that folks using Gawker to state that a living person was rumoured to be a user of "Ashley whatever" where the reliable sources state the allegation is from Gawker, has naught to do with any rational delineation of "US politics." Nor does "Ashley whatever" appear to have any rational connection to "US politics either". Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC) @Gamaliel - you insinuate openly that I arrived at the article because of political considerations. That insinuation is completely and utterly false. In fact, it is an extreme example of "assuming bad faith" in my honest opinion. Out of many hundreds of BLPs I have edited, only a trivial fraction are "political" at all, and to imply I mainly work on political BLPs is ludicrous. I list a few on my User page, and if anyone wants them listed here, I would be glad to do so. What I fear is the idea the "Collect is banned from US politics, and now we can get him before AE every three weeks just by stretching the facts a hair" (On UT Jimbo, one editor even accuses me of being biased on CRU email articles - despite the fact I stay pretty far away from them). Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC) @Gamaliel Again read this - I did not arrive at this article for any political reasons whatsoever. Nor have I ever made deliberate "political edits" to the best of my ability in the past six years at all (after my attempts not to have Joe the Plumber be officially described as a "plumber's ass." which I found at the time to be despicable, but which seems now the norm in political silly seasons around the world). I am flabbergasted that you would make such a back-handed apology at all as " since it is an article related to politics and thus your topic ban, you should abandon the matter for other editors to deal with" This BLP is a biography of a person known as a TV performer. Did you read some of the biographies I have dealt with? Really? I find this "assume bad faith because the person has damn well been harassed enough, so more harassment is fine and dandy" to be a most interesting example of civility. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Request: Will someone identify the blatant sock who made the OP here? And block the hell out of them? When a person appears out of "nowhere" and has the sole and singular purpose of posting at AE,I suggest that calling such a person a sock is clearly accurate, and that the purpose of harassment is also clear. Any real person should post under their actual account instead of making anonymous complaints in that manner. Collect (talk) 11:45, 21 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by Writegeist ~~Complaint does not warrant enforcement action. Move to close vexatious request. Writegeist (talk) 18:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)~~ Writegeist (talk) 21:42, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by EvergreenFir Floq - IPs are WP:HUMAN... probably should consider their cases on a case-by-case basis (literally). I think this is a stretch of Collect's t-ban. If he were edit warring on the page and discussing politics directly, I could see the case being made. But that's not the case here. Moreover, WP:BANEX applies to BLP violations (right?) and though I'm not sure this was a huge violation (some of those sources were okay and it's been covered by a lot of news outlets), it was done in good faith and was reasonable. Recommend dismissing this. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by John Carter The edit in question, here, is to remove rather overtly sensationalist material which might be reasonably seen as being at best dubiously founded, at least at this point, possibly contrary to BLP, and I have to agree with the above that saying this relates to American politics is rather likely a stretch. Alternately, every article even marginally related to American society in general, and by extension American politics, might fall within the scope of the ban, and I have no reason to believe that the sanctions were intended to be that broad. I believe it probably best to let this close without action against Collect, or, if action is to be taken, he should be given a rather clearer definition of what is and is not within the scope of the sanctions. John Carter (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom When the most reliable source supporting a contentious statement is the Daily Fail quoting Gawker, that is something that MUST be removed ASAP. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC) And with the edits from the IP leading to the incontrovertible conclusion that they are an attempt to WP:EVADE scrutiny, this needs needs to be tossed as an invalid filing. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by DHeyward A revert of BLP violating material on a non-political figure is not a violation. Collect should be encouraged to continue his vigilance. --DHeyward (talk) 21:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by Fyddlestix Re: the speculation that Collect arrived at the article for political reasons, it seems much more likely to me that he was responding to this post at BLPN. In my experience Collect watches BLPN pretty carefully, so for him to see that post, note that no-one had replied to it yet, and rush to remove the info (possibly without even realizing that Duggar has a "political" side to his life) would be pretty consistent with his usual behavior. I actually don't think it was necessarily a BLP violation, but I don't see this as a violation of Collect's topic-ban either. I'm sure he meant well here. I think a gentle reminder to be aware of the topic ban is the most that could be called for here. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:14, 21 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Collect This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Despite the complainant's contortions, I cannot seem to stretch Collect's topic ban to cover the (single) edit presented. Yes, Josh Duggar apparently has at some point had some involvement in politics, but he is by far better known for his involvement in reality television. The edit in question – which involved removing sensational, BLP-governed content – had no direct connection to Duggar's politics or to U.S. politics in general. This request appears to be without merit. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Wait, are we accepting AE reports from IP addresses now? I thought it said somewhere that we don't do that. If it doesn't, it should. There are probably +/- 5 people who legitmately participate in arbitration-related discussions without an account due to some difficult-to-understand but honest opposition to having an account. There are probably +/- 500 people who use an IP address to avoid scrutiny of their own actions, but who claim to not have an account. The 5 people make dealing with anon's at arbitration complicated, but they should just have to deal with not being able to file an AE case; the 500 have poisoned that well. Also, the snarky "Cheers" in the IP's notice on Collect's talk page, mirroring Collect's own snarky "Cheers", leads me to believe this is one of the 500 anyway. Unless someone thinks I'm really off base, I'll close this with no decision; if a longer-term editor with an account wants to file this complaint, it can be refiled, though I personally don't recommend it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:35, 20 August 2015 (UTC) In the past, we have allowed topic-banned editors to make edits and raise alerts about potential BLP violations due to the importance of the BLP policy. So I say we close this with no enforcement provided that, like those other editors, Collect takes no further action now that he has alerted other editors to this matter. Gamaliel (talk) 19:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC) That was not a BLP violation though. It was written neutrally, it was well sourced, and it did not appear to be assigned a disproportionate amount of weight. BLP creep is not good and this is not the first time Collect has used a faulty BLP rationale to justify his edits—in fact, I have blocked him for it before. This being said, I entirely agree with TenOfAllTrades above and concur that no enforcement is needed here. Swarm ♠ 20:11, 20 August 2015 (UTC) I agree with what you've written here, which is why I included the caveat that he abandon this matter. BLP creep is an issue I've spoken out about before, but I am inclined to give an editor the benefit of the doubt where BLP is concerened. Gamaliel (talk) 21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC) (ec) To clarify, are you saying that (BLP concerns aside) Collect's edit violated his topic ban, and that the scope of that topic ban actually includes all of Duggar's article (including portions not directly related to U.S. politics)? That is to say, are you defining Duggar as a "U.S. politician" – rather than an entertainer who has also dabbled in politics – thereby bringing his entire biography (not just the political bits) within the scope of Collect's topic ban? Or are you reasoning along other lines? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Does Collect normally edit articles about reality show entertainers? If so, then I support him being allowed to edit this article, but otherwise I believe it's clear his interest is political. The Family Research Council is a major US political organization, and since Duggar was director of the lobbying arm of it, according to Duggar's article, that makes Duggar much more than a dabbler, I think. Gamaliel (talk) 21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC) I don't see this as actionable. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC) @Collect: Since I am one of those arguing against taking action in this case because I see your actions as a good faith attempt to enforce BLP, it would seem to be the very opposite of "an extreme example of "assuming bad faith"". It's clear you are interested in politics and editing political articles. There's nothing wrong with that, so there's no reason for you to react in horror that someone would suggest that you are. You're also interested in BLP compliance, which is good and should be encouraged. You deserve credit for bringing this issue to the attention of others, but since it is an article related to politics and thus your topic ban, you should abandon the matter for other editors to deal with. Gamaliel (talk) 23:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Consensus for "no action" (although almost everyone seems to have a different rationale for "no action"). --Floquenbeam (talk) 11:51, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Collect

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: 2600:1000:B001:1FC2:9E5E:5DCF:BF25:8FF8 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:31, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Collect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect_and_others#Collect_topic-banned_.28option_2.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

20 Aug 2015 Reverts contentious edit to Josh Duggar. Josh Duggar is a former executive director of the political action committee of the Family Research Council. Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

13 July 2015 Collect was blocked for a week for violating his topic ban.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Collect has been forum shopping this topic at BLPN and at Jimbo's talk page. This is behavior consonant with this finding of fact in his arbitration case.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Collect

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Collect

I suggest that folks using Gawker to state that a living person was rumoured to be a user of "Ashley whatever" where the reliable sources state the allegation is from Gawker, has naught to do with any rational delineation of "US politics." Nor does "Ashley whatever" appear to have any rational connection to "US politics either". Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel - you insinuate openly that I arrived at the article because of political considerations. That insinuation is completely and utterly false. In fact, it is an extreme example of "assuming bad faith" in my honest opinion. Out of many hundreds of BLPs I have edited, only a trivial fraction are "political" at all, and to imply I mainly work on political BLPs is ludicrous. I list a few on my User page, and if anyone wants them listed here, I would be glad to do so. What I fear is the idea the "Collect is banned from US politics, and now we can get him before AE every three weeks just by stretching the facts a hair" (On UT Jimbo, one editor even accuses me of being biased on CRU email articles - despite the fact I stay pretty far away from them). Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel Again read this - I did not arrive at this article for any political reasons whatsoever. Nor have I ever made deliberate "political edits" to the best of my ability in the past six years at all (after my attempts not to have Joe the Plumber be officially described as a "plumber's ass." which I found at the time to be despicable, but which seems now the norm in political silly seasons around the world). I am flabbergasted that you would make such a back-handed apology at all as " since it is an article related to politics and thus your topic ban, you should abandon the matter for other editors to deal with" This BLP is a biography of a person known as a TV performer. Did you read some of the biographies I have dealt with? Really? I find this "assume bad faith because the person has damn well been harassed enough, so more harassment is fine and dandy" to be a most interesting example of civility. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Request: Will someone identify the blatant sock who made the OP here? And block the hell out of them? When a person appears out of "nowhere" and has the sole and singular purpose of posting at AE,I suggest that calling such a person a sock is clearly accurate, and that the purpose of harassment is also clear. Any real person should post under their actual account instead of making anonymous complaints in that manner. Collect (talk) 11:45, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Writegeist

~~Complaint does not warrant enforcement action. Move to close vexatious request. Writegeist (talk) 18:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)~~ Writegeist (talk) 21:42, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

Floq - IPs are WP:HUMAN... probably should consider their cases on a case-by-case basis (literally).

I think this is a stretch of Collect's t-ban. If he were edit warring on the page and discussing politics directly, I could see the case being made. But that's not the case here. Moreover, WP:BANEX applies to BLP violations (right?) and though I'm not sure this was a huge violation (some of those sources were okay and it's been covered by a lot of news outlets), it was done in good faith and was reasonable. Recommend dismissing this. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by John Carter

The edit in question, here, is to remove rather overtly sensationalist material which might be reasonably seen as being at best dubiously founded, at least at this point, possibly contrary to BLP, and I have to agree with the above that saying this relates to American politics is rather likely a stretch. Alternately, every article even marginally related to American society in general, and by extension American politics, might fall within the scope of the ban, and I have no reason to believe that the sanctions were intended to be that broad. I believe it probably best to let this close without action against Collect, or, if action is to be taken, he should be given a rather clearer definition of what is and is not within the scope of the sanctions. John Carter (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

When the most reliable source supporting a contentious statement is the Daily Fail quoting Gawker, that is something that MUST be removed ASAP. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

And with the edits from the IP leading to the incontrovertible conclusion that they are an attempt to WP:EVADE scrutiny, this needs needs to be tossed as an invalid filing. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by DHeyward

A revert of BLP violating material on a non-political figure is not a violation. Collect should be encouraged to continue his vigilance. --DHeyward (talk) 21:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Fyddlestix

Re: the speculation that Collect arrived at the article for political reasons, it seems much more likely to me that he was responding to this post at BLPN. In my experience Collect watches BLPN pretty carefully, so for him to see that post, note that no-one had replied to it yet, and rush to remove the info (possibly without even realizing that Duggar has a "political" side to his life) would be pretty consistent with his usual behavior. I actually don't think it was necessarily a BLP violation, but I don't see this as a violation of Collect's topic-ban either. I'm sure he meant well here. I think a gentle reminder to be aware of the topic ban is the most that could be called for here. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:14, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Collect

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Despite the complainant's contortions, I cannot seem to stretch Collect's topic ban to cover the (single) edit presented. Yes, Josh Duggar apparently has at some point had some involvement in politics, but he is by far better known for his involvement in reality television. The edit in question – which involved removing sensational, BLP-governed content – had no direct connection to Duggar's politics or to U.S. politics in general. This request appears to be without merit. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
Wait, are we accepting AE reports from IP addresses now? I thought it said somewhere that we don't do that. If it doesn't, it should. There are probably +/- 5 people who legitmately participate in arbitration-related discussions without an account due to some difficult-to-understand but honest opposition to having an account. There are probably +/- 500 people who use an IP address to avoid scrutiny of their own actions, but who claim to not have an account. The 5 people make dealing with anon's at arbitration complicated, but they should just have to deal with not being able to file an AE case; the 500 have poisoned that well. Also, the snarky "Cheers" in the IP's notice on Collect's talk page, mirroring Collect's own snarky "Cheers", leads me to believe this is one of the 500 anyway. Unless someone thinks I'm really off base, I'll close this with no decision; if a longer-term editor with an account wants to file this complaint, it can be refiled, though I personally don't recommend it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:35, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
In the past, we have allowed topic-banned editors to make edits and raise alerts about potential BLP violations due to the importance of the BLP policy. So I say we close this with no enforcement provided that, like those other editors, Collect takes no further action now that he has alerted other editors to this matter. Gamaliel (talk) 19:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

That was not a BLP violation though. It was written neutrally, it was well sourced, and it did not appear to be assigned a disproportionate amount of weight. BLP creep is not good and this is not the first time Collect has used a faulty BLP rationale to justify his edits—in fact, I have blocked him for it before. This being said, I entirely agree with TenOfAllTrades above and concur that no enforcement is needed here. Swarm ♠ 20:11, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree with what you've written here, which is why I included the caveat that he abandon this matter. BLP creep is an issue I've spoken out about before, but I am inclined to give an editor the benefit of the doubt where BLP is concerened. Gamaliel (talk) 21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

(ec) To clarify, are you saying that (BLP concerns aside) Collect's edit violated his topic ban, and that the scope of that topic ban actually includes all of Duggar's article (including portions not directly related to U.S. politics)? That is to say, are you defining Duggar as a "U.S. politician" – rather than an entertainer who has also dabbled in politics – thereby bringing his entire biography (not just the political bits) within the scope of Collect's topic ban? Or are you reasoning along other lines? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Does Collect normally edit articles about reality show entertainers? If so, then I support him being allowed to edit this article, but otherwise I believe it's clear his interest is political. The Family Research Council is a major US political organization, and since Duggar was director of the lobbying arm of it, according to Duggar's article, that makes Duggar much more than a dabbler, I think. Gamaliel (talk) 21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't see this as actionable. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@Collect: Since I am one of those arguing against taking action in this case because I see your actions as a good faith attempt to enforce BLP, it would seem to be the very opposite of "an extreme example of "assuming bad faith"". It's clear you are interested in politics and editing political articles. There's nothing wrong with that, so there's no reason for you to react in horror that someone would suggest that you are. You're also interested in BLP compliance, which is good and should be encouraged. You deserve credit for bringing this issue to the attention of others, but since it is an article related to politics and thus your topic ban, you should abandon the matter for other editors to deal with. Gamaliel (talk) 23:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Dukisuzuki

Request concerning Dukisuzuki

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:53, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Dukisuzuki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:BALKANS :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Edit warring, personal attacks and battleground attitude on the article on Meša Selimović

July 29 Revert with edit summary "It's very disrespectful that Bosniak ultranationalists on Misplaced Pages are trying to distort this man's nationality". Ethnically based personal attacks. For the record, I am neither a "Bosniak" nor an "ultranationalist"
August 15 The edit summary used by Dukisuzuki is: "I don't give a shit about your faggot talk page you fucking baby-brained retard. Maybe if you could understand the language of this author that you are so keen on fucking with, you would realize..." Hmm so let's see. "faggot". "fucking baby-brained retard". So violation of NPA and homophobic language too boot ... the obvious WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude is almost a side issue.
August 15 This edit removes another editor's (mine) comment from the talk page and also states "I don't give a shit about your notice, posting a notice does not allow you to rewrite history."

The "notice" refers to the big notice on top of the talk page which states: "By a long-standing consensus, and a Misplaced Pages guideline, Selimović is defined as a "Yugoslav writer" in the lead section, as his (disputed) ethnic affiliation is not directly relevant for his notability as a writer. Please review the talk page archives for endless debates on the subject before starting a new one." I pointed this out to Dukisuzuki and this is his response.

But ok, these edits were made before Dukisuzuki received a discretionary sanctions warning yet. I gave it here , on August 18.

Dukisuzuki kept on edit warring on the article, kept removing my comment from the talk page, and kept reposting his "I don't give a shit..." comment:

Talk page:

Continued edit warring against multiple users AFTER Dukisuzuki was made aware of the notice on top of the talk page and AFTER they were given a discretionary sanction notification:

August 20 Edit summary: "... Idiots like NoneSuchUser..."
August 20 WP:BATTLEGROUND

I should note that Dukisuzuki has continued to engage in tendentious editing even after this report was filed, and even after they have commented here:

changing "Yugoslav" to "Serb" in the article on Death and the Dervish
changing "Serbo-Croatian" to "Serbian" in the same article.

Added on 8/21

Below Dukisuzuki says "I now understand the error of my ways". This pretty much evidences that they haven't.

Oh yeah, also, I may as well state explicitly that I am not the same person as User:No such user and have no idea who they are. These accusations of sockpuppetry by Dukisuzuki are completely unwarrented and just more evidence of their battleground attitude.Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:13, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

And more .Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:33, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on August 18

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is a pretty straight forward case of WP:NOTHERE.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Dukisuzuki

Statement by Dukisuzuki

There is nothing tendentious about my editing as evidenced by the following quote by Mesa Selimovic: "Potičem iz muslimanske porodice iz Bosne, a po nacionalnoj pripadnosti sam Srbin. Pripadam srpskoj literaturi" -> TRANSLATION: I COME FROM A MUSLIM FAMILY FROM BOSNIA, BUT BY ETHNICITY I AM A SERB. I BELONG TO SERBIAN LITERATURE

The context of this situation must be understood in order to comprehend my insults towards Volunteer Marek. Marek wrongly edited the ethnicity of a person who explicitly stated his ethnicity in a letter to the Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences because he knew that there would be politically-fuelled historiographical revisionism regarding his ethnicity after his death. His ethnicity is and was one of the key details regarding the legitimacy of major political actions, wars, the deaths of thousands of people including some of my personal relatives, and his own literary works because they discuss ethnic questions in the Balkans. This is why I reacted so passionately to Marek's ignorance and intentional censorship of my citation referencing the specific letter included in the author's autobiography "Sjecanja" where he states his ethnicity and the language in which he wrote his works. I was also frustrated by Marek's sense of entitlement to censor my contribution with no explanation seemingly simply because he spends more time on Misplaced Pages than I do and my contribution did not fit his political narrative.

I reacted passionately to "None Such User" because he called me a "nationalist crap", and also because he was acting the same way as Marek was; censoring all of the citations I added to the article with no explanation for his action. I would not be surprised if VolunteerMarek and NoneSuchUser were two usernames that belonged to the same person.

I now understand the error of my ways, i.e that personal insults and harsh words are not allowed when addressing other users on Misplaced Pages, and that I shouldn't address users directly but rather solely talk about their content. I admit now that I didn't know the importance of this site's etiquette before this incident: especially Talk page etiquette. I will refrain from using harsh words and personal insults when addressing other users from now on, even if they use harsh words against me. I will also refrain from writing over users' comments in the talk page to respond to their content - in the future I will instead make another section in the talk page to address what they have written.

Dukisuzuki (talk) 05:59, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CONTENT OF MY EDITS OF THE ARTICLE APART FROM THE PASSIONATE REMARKS DIRECTED TO VOLUNTEER MAREK/NONESUCHUSER I LEFT IN THE EDIT SUMMARY. MY EDITS ARE AND WERE CONSTRUCTIVE AND BENEFICIAL TO THE READERS OF THE ARTICLE. HERE IS THE SPECIFIC QUOTE FROM MESA SELIMOVIC HIMSELF WHICH PROVES ME RIGHT: "Potičem iz muslimanske porodice iz Bosne, a po nacionalnoj pripadnosti sam Srbin. Pripadam srpskoj literaturi" -> TRANSLATION: I COME FROM A MUSLIM FAMILY FROM BOSNIA, BUT BY ETHNICITY I AM A SERB. I BELONG TO SERBIAN LITERATURE

Statement by EvergreenFir

Given the updated language at WP:HARASS, an indef is more than warranted here.

Statement by No such user

Ahem. While I used to criticize AE for bringing rush decisions, I believe we have a clearcut case of WP:NOTHERE and an apparent consensus of administrators. Can somebody please close this? No such user (talk) 10:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Dukisuzuki

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Indef? I'm not sure there's much point in going through the whole DS dance. T. Canens (talk) 05:05, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Agree with an indefinite block. The tone of his edit summaries and talk posts doesn't suggest he is here to improve the encyclopedia. EdJohnston (talk) 05:15, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
The August 15 comment alone justifies an indefinite block. Gamaliel (talk) 12:28, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
I have indeffed. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:21, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Settleman

Request concerning Settleman

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Nomoskedasticity (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:42, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Settleman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPIA, "general 1RR restriction"

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

20 August 2015 14:00. This edit is a revert by virtue of substantially repeating this edit, which adds the paragraph that begins "According to Regavim...". Both edits are intended to convey the notion that the village did not really exist before 1986. No talk-page consensus supports doing this.
21 August 2015 7:56, straightforward deletion of text added by another editor

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I ask that the 1RR violation be dealt with on its own "merits"; the editor has participated on the talk page Talk:Susya and has therefore undoubtedly seen the prominent notice about "active arbitration remedies". There are other issues of POV-PUSHING we might consider; I think this editor is mainly interested in placing the work of Regavim (NGO) on relevant articles here, and if we don't deal with that issue now we'll likely have to do so soon. I'm also convinced that this editor lacks the constructive attitude necessary for editing in this area; one indication of this is this talk-page contribution, where the final sentence ("But they are fighting zionists so lying is not only acceptable but apparently encyclopedic") is a direct attack on the contributions of other editors -- it indicates Settleman's view that other editors believe that it is acceptable for organisations opposed to Regavim to "lie". Nomoskedasticity (talk) 08:42, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

A recent talk page comment reinforces the impression that the editor is here with a WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude: "Repeating the same speech again and again doesn't make you right, just obnoxious." It also shows the extent of disagreement about this issue that persists on the talk page even now; the notion that Settleman acted per a consensus is simply false. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 20:23, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Settleman

Statement by Settleman

Technically I guess I'm at fault but the first edit was a result of a long discussion with Kingsindian and Nishidani which I took for an agreement.

The POV-PUSHING issue it very good description of what I'm doing as I try to change this article from saying "settlers expeled Palestinians many times" to sometimes that is less simplistic and more accurate.

It is interesting a user who didn't participate in the conversation takes the time the analyze the tone I use and even gets deeply insulted. Settleman (talk) 10:21, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kingsindian

While this is a technical WP:1RR violation, and I do think Settleman has a rather obvious POV (I do too, quite his opposite one, and so does everyone in this area), I think Settleman's edits are almost all in good faith. The first edit was made after extensive discussion on the talk page, and had a rough, though not total consensus. See Talk:Susya#RHR_and_b.27tselem_as_RS and many other sections on the talk page. Whatever his real world motive might be, his edits on WP are by and large quite legitimate. This should first have been discussed on the Settleman's user talk page, and if he refused to revert, only then brought here. It is very easy to break WP:1RR in this area, even by mistake. See, for example here, where I broke it by mistake (though the editor who warned me was a sock, that is irrelevant), and here, where I only warned the editor, though he refused to revert. Kingsindian ♝♚ 09:33, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

In cases where an edit is made as a result of talk page discussions, it is clearly not in the same class as a "gotcha" for making an undiscussed revert. WP:CONSENSUS supports the use of "compromise language" discussed on a talk page in search of a consensus, and to make that concept void for the sake of someone being able to say "you addition of 'the' in the lead is a clear 1RR violation - you gonna get banned" would make a mockery of what "compromise discussions" should result in. (Here editors try to persuade others, using reasons based in policy, sources, and common sense; they can also suggest alternative solutions or compromises that may satisfy all concerns. The result might be an agreement that does not satisfy anyone completely, but that all recognize as a reasonable solution. Consensus is an ongoing process on Misplaced Pages; it is often better to accept a less-than-perfect compromise – with the understanding that the page is gradually improving – than to try to fight to implement a particular preferred version immediately) Collect (talk) 12:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

My view is similar to that of Kingsindian. Although Settleman edits with a strong POV, often at odds with mine, he doesn't fit the standard pattern of armchair activist that the Mideast area of the encyclopaedia is beset by. For a first 1RR violation I'd recommend an official warning as the appropriate response. Zero 12:50, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Settleman

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I don't think acting on the basis of a talk page consensus, subsequent to a single independent revert, is a 2nd revert in a reasonable sense. if that 'screally all it was I'd say not actionable. But I want to inspect the details. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Collect

Consensus is that this request is not actionable. T. Canens (talk) 04:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Collect User who is submitting this request for enforcement 2600:1000:B025:1B16:3EF:73E8:77D7:9C35 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:56, 23 August 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Collect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect_and_others#Collect_topic-banned_.28option_2.29 : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 22 Aug 2015 Collect contributes to a deletion discussion regarding a photograph of Gary Hart, an American political figure. Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace. 22 Aug 2015 Further contribution to the deletion discussion. 23 Aug 2015 Discusses the issue at WP:BLPN. 23 Aug 2015 Discusses the issue at the Village Pump. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 13 July 2015 Collect was blocked for a week for violating his topic ban. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above. Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Gary Hart is a former US senator, two-time presidential candidate, and at present is the United States Special Envoy for Northern Ireland appointed by President Obama. The photograph under discussion was a major contributor to Hart's withdrawal from the 1988 presidential race. Gary Hart is unquestionably a US political figure. Also, yes, I'm an ip. No, I don't have an account. I'd appreciate it if my request can be evaluated on its merits. Collect is conducting breaching experiments to test the limits of his ban. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Collect Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Collect Again asking for an investigation of this "anonymous" IP. No way is this a "new user" AFAICT. Not only is the issue of copyright ownership of a photo unrelated to "US politics" rationally construed, Gary Hart is not a current political figure at all, nor are any of my comments remotely construable as being political. I was accused of "crying 'harassment'" in the prior case - but I suggest this is a blatant case which should be dealt with promptly before this becomes a weekly show of stalking. Collect (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Note: The issue of copyright ownership has absolutely nothing to do with any political issues whatsoever, nor did I make any comments on any pages other than those directly associated with the subject of deletion of an image for reasons of copyright. I suggest, moreover, that the IP who avers he is "not a registered editor" is absolutely engaged in stalking here, and failure to act concerning such stalking is unwise for Misplaced Pages. Collect (talk) 21:09, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Note: I specifically made zero comments about Hart whatsoever -- thus I made no comments "about" him. As for the belief that any page which mentions a political figure en passant is thus a "political page" - that is an insane position to take and implies I can never even post on UT Jimbo because someone may mention a political figure on that page. Deletion discussions have as a rule not been considered "political discussions" in the past, and to make all deletion discussions potentially political is unsupportable by any logic at all. Next I will be banned from RfA discussions because someone may mention a former politician in such a discussion? Or mention a "political article" somewhere in a lengthy discussion on reliable sources that I can not comment on reliable sources? I suggest copyright is about the least political topic imaginable anywhere, and that you should be more concerned with the blatant stalker than anything else. Collect (talk) 21:51, 23 August 2015 (UTC) @Fyddlestix - I made no edits to any article or article talk page here - I noted copyright at a deletion discussion and on a proper Misplaced Pages discussion board, but zero edits on any political article or article discussion page. Just to be clear again I made no comments about Hart on any page whatsoever. Collect (talk) 21:55, 23 August 2015 (UTC) @Fyddlestix Iterating - I did not make any comments whatsoever about the article. Period. Not once. The issue I dealt with is simple - does Rice have a clear copyright to a photo. That only. I did not mention anything whatsoever remotely connected to Hart or to his article other that the single quote from Cramer showing that Rice voluntarily gave the photo to another person. Is this sufficiently clear? (I never mentioned the article, never discussed the photo's use in any article, nor any rationale for fair use etc. - only the claim of copyright which was wrong.) Collect (talk) 22:40, 23 August 2015 (UTC) @Fyddlestix I never even dealt with what was in the photo - if it were a photo of Mount Vernon my position on copyright would have exactly been the same - and you should note with candour that I never mentioned the nature of the photo in any post - dealing strictly with it on the basis of the claims for deletion which hinged on it being copyright by Rice. I also did state that the Miami Herald is generally considered a "reliable source" (having 20 Pulitzer Prizes) despite political arguments raised by the person seeking deletion of the photo. Collect (talk) 00:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by EvergreenFir Second AE from an IP against Collect in a week... seems suspiciously like WP:STALK/WP:HOUND... EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 20:04, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by Jbhunley (edit conflict) It is pretty chicken shit to be reporting these little infractions anonymously but this one is without question a violation of his topic ban the terms of which read "Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace. This ban may be appealed no earlier than 18 months after its adoption." (Emp. mine) There is no excuse for Collect to be making the reported edits. A topic ban means stay away from the topic not see how close one can get to the fringes and not get sanctioned. The topic ban is not relating to current US political figures but all US political figures - as it is worded this means all the way back to George Washington, kind of silly but it is what it is. Jbh 20:36, 23 August 2015 (UTC) @Georgewilliamherbert: That is a reasonable stance to take and I would agree with it if we were talking about people who have not been part of the American political process or debate for many decades. Twelve years is still very recent in US politics. I do agree that the edits were really not political but that in not what the topic ban is about. The applicable wording is any page relating ... to US political figures ... in any namespace meaning ArbCom felt there was potential for disruption in that area. We are not, or should not, be debating whether disruption occurred or was likely to occur but whether the topic ban, as written, was broken. Bans are given out for a reason - in this case that the editor is likely to become disruptive within the area of US politics - continued testing of the boundries should be discouraged it will eventually lead to a repeat of the issues the ban was put in place to avoid. Jbh 21:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Since I failed to make it clear above. I do not think Collect should be sanctioned here but he should be advised that this was a de facto violation of his ban even if unintentional. Collect is a valuable editor and has much to contribute. I do not, however, see how not acknowledging technical violations, once reported - however reported, is of long term benefit to the project. I do not know how issues of IP harassment are typically handled but, in my opinion, Collect should provide a CheckUser with a list of potential editors via email and have them crosscheck with these addresses. While this not be typical procedure it probably should be and in any case it might be able to nip this in the bud before it becomes a bigger issue. Jbh 22:25, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by Glrx "Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace." The figure is of an ancient political figure, and Collect is clearly banned from Gary Hart's page or making an edit about Gary Hart. However, the file for deletion discussion is not a discussion about politics or political figures: it's about copyright, and Collect's edits were focussed on copyright issues. He mentions Rice but in the context of her owning the copyright; mention of Hart seems to be inside a quotation. Collect doesn't even come down as a keep or delete: Collect disputed arguments about Rice holding the copyright; Collect was silent on fair use. Collect may be testing boundaries, and he may want embarrassing photos of Hart published, but I would not ding him on this one. FWIW, I think the photo fails fair use, but Collect is adding valuable clarity to the debate. Glrx (talk) 20:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by John Carter I'm sorry to say that, at least in my eyes, this has to be counted as being at least marginally political. I can see arguments that "diplomacy" and "politics" are unrelated, but I think that has to be counted as a bit of a stretch. Diplomats engage in government related work, and government generally qualifies as politics, broadly construed. Also, with at least one individual from roughly the same era, Biden, apparently actively considering running for president again, I don't think the argument that he has been grandfathered out of "politics" is well-based. He could well endorse one or another candidate in the race, as a formal candidate, and that would certainly be in the area of "politics." Having said all that, the nature of the existing sanction, to "politics," is itself problematic, as the definition of the term is itself open to question. Maybe particularly in this case, considering that the edit in question is from a discussion in which there seems to be some question of copyright violation. Maybe, at best, a statement from the AE enforcers about whether this is or is not within the scope of "politics," and, maybe, if so determined, a very short block, might be called for. BLP violations, in general, are not considered within the bounds of sanctions, and although I haven't gone into all the details of this case I would have to assume copyright violations might be similar to BLP in being outside the scope of regular sanctions. Maybe. John Carter (talk) 21:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by Fyddlestix This reporting-as-an-ip nonsense is incredibly petty and lame, and I think Collect is quite right to call for an SPI here. If the IP can be tied to another editor then that editor should obviously face some serious sanction. That said; I'm sorry, but Hart is a former Senator and a political appointee of the Obama administration. If he's not a "political figure," then I'm a purple gorilla. And Collect's topic ban prohibits "making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace." For Collect to ~~edit the talk page of this article or have anything to do with any disputes related to it~~ make comments about Hart, or related to his article is a crystal clear violation of his topic ban. Fyddlestix (talk) 21:37, 23 August 2015 (UTC) @Collect:, you're quite right about the talk page, my bad. I've struck that bit. Fyddlestix (talk) 22:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC) @Collect: I can see your point, but in my mind wading into a debate over a photo of someone is pretty clearly an edit "about" the person in the photograph. Hopefully you can see how/why someone might reasonably hold that position. Anyways, it's for the admins here to judge, not me. Fyddlestix (talk) 00:46, 24 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by Tryptofish I also request that a Checkuser look into the filing IP, in relation to existing or past accounts. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:13, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Statement by another editor Result concerning Collect This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Hart has not been in politics per se for decades, though he remains politically affiliated (current work is diplomatic in nature). I think this is further from the explicit ban area than the July incident which was ruled a breaching experiment against the topic ban. It's not cleanly away from the area, but also far further removed. That said... The particular thing being edited about seems related to the prior political career. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Jbhunley - At some point it stops being politics and becomes history. The case that Hart remains tangentally political is valid, but his last discussions of office were 12 years ago. This photo was regarding something 28 years old. I believe that those are historical. Discussing Pres Carter's cancer would be a hypothetical clearly historical action. But other uninvolved admins need to weigh in. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC) The OP should be sanctioned for abuse of process. Collect has not violated the topic ban. Guy (Help!) 21:16, 23 August 2015 (UTC) Hart is a political figure, but Collect's discussion was restricted to copyright issues. It would be absurd to sanction Collect for these comments. This strikes me as a frivolous request. Gamaliel (talk) 21:28, 23 August 2015 (UTC) I agree with User:Gamaliel. This complaint also strikes me as being made in bad faith. The filer is clearly someone trying to evade scrutiny while attempting to seek action against another Wikipedian. Poor form, use your regular account to complain about others if it is not already blocked. Chillum 22:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC) No action warranted. Let's close this one. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Consensus is that this request is not actionable. T. Canens (talk) 04:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Collect

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: 2600:1000:B025:1B16:3EF:73E8:77D7:9C35 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:56, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Collect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect_and_others#Collect_topic-banned_.28option_2.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

22 Aug 2015 Collect contributes to a deletion discussion regarding a photograph of Gary Hart, an American political figure. Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace.
22 Aug 2015 Further contribution to the deletion discussion.
23 Aug 2015 Discusses the issue at WP:BLPN.
23 Aug 2015 Discusses the issue at the Village Pump.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

13 July 2015 Collect was blocked for a week for violating his topic ban.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Gary Hart is a former US senator, two-time presidential candidate, and at present is the United States Special Envoy for Northern Ireland appointed by President Obama. The photograph under discussion was a major contributor to Hart's withdrawal from the 1988 presidential race. Gary Hart is unquestionably a US political figure.

Also, yes, I'm an ip. No, I don't have an account. I'd appreciate it if my request can be evaluated on its merits. Collect is conducting breaching experiments to test the limits of his ban.
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Collect

Statement by Collect

Again asking for an investigation of this "anonymous" IP. No way is this a "new user" AFAICT. Not only is the issue of copyright ownership of a photo unrelated to "US politics" rationally construed, Gary Hart is not a current political figure at all, nor are any of my comments remotely construable as being political. I was accused of "crying 'harassment'" in the prior case - but I suggest this is a blatant case which should be dealt with promptly before this becomes a weekly show of stalking. Collect (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Note: The issue of copyright ownership has absolutely nothing to do with any political issues whatsoever, nor did I make any comments on any pages other than those directly associated with the subject of deletion of an image for reasons of copyright. I suggest, moreover, that the IP who avers he is "not a registered editor" is absolutely engaged in stalking here, and failure to act concerning such stalking is unwise for Misplaced Pages. Collect (talk) 21:09, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Note: I specifically made zero comments about Hart whatsoever -- thus I made no comments "about" him. As for the belief that any page which mentions a political figure en passant is thus a "political page" - that is an insane position to take and implies I can never even post on UT Jimbo because someone may mention a political figure on that page. Deletion discussions have as a rule not been considered "political discussions" in the past, and to make all deletion discussions potentially political is unsupportable by any logic at all. Next I will be banned from RfA discussions because someone may mention a former politician in such a discussion? Or mention a "political article" somewhere in a lengthy discussion on reliable sources that I can not comment on reliable sources? I suggest copyright is about the least political topic imaginable anywhere, and that you should be more concerned with the blatant stalker than anything else. Collect (talk) 21:51, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Fyddlestix - I made no edits to any article or article talk page here - I noted copyright at a deletion discussion and on a proper Misplaced Pages discussion board, but zero edits on any political article or article discussion page. Just to be clear again I made no comments about Hart on any page whatsoever. Collect (talk) 21:55, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Fyddlestix Iterating - I did not make any comments whatsoever about the article. Period. Not once. The issue I dealt with is simple - does Rice have a clear copyright to a photo. That only. I did not mention anything whatsoever remotely connected to Hart or to his article other that the single quote from Cramer showing that Rice voluntarily gave the photo to another person. Is this sufficiently clear? (I never mentioned the article, never discussed the photo's use in any article, nor any rationale for fair use etc. - only the claim of copyright which was wrong.) Collect (talk) 22:40, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Fyddlestix I never even dealt with what was in the photo - if it were a photo of Mount Vernon my position on copyright would have exactly been the same - and you should note with candour that I never mentioned the nature of the photo in any post - dealing strictly with it on the basis of the claims for deletion which hinged on it being copyright by Rice. I also did state that the Miami Herald is generally considered a "reliable source" (having 20 Pulitzer Prizes) despite political arguments raised by the person seeking deletion of the photo. Collect (talk) 00:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

Second AE from an IP against Collect in a week... seems suspiciously like WP:STALK/WP:HOUND... EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 20:04, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Jbhunley

(edit conflict) It is pretty chicken shit to be reporting these little infractions anonymously but this one is without question a violation of his topic ban the terms of which read "Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace. This ban may be appealed no earlier than 18 months after its adoption." (Emp. mine) There is no excuse for Collect to be making the reported edits. A topic ban means stay away from the topic not see how close one can get to the fringes and not get sanctioned. The topic ban is not relating to current US political figures but all US political figures - as it is worded this means all the way back to George Washington, kind of silly but it is what it is. Jbh 20:36, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Georgewilliamherbert: That is a reasonable stance to take and I would agree with it if we were talking about people who have not been part of the American political process or debate for many decades. Twelve years is still very recent in US politics. I do agree that the edits were really not political but that in not what the topic ban is about. The applicable wording is any page relating ... to US political figures ... in any namespace meaning ArbCom felt there was potential for disruption in that area. We are not, or should not, be debating whether disruption occurred or was likely to occur but whether the topic ban, as written, was broken. Bans are given out for a reason - in this case that the editor is likely to become disruptive within the area of US politics - continued testing of the boundries should be discouraged it will eventually lead to a repeat of the issues the ban was put in place to avoid. Jbh 21:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Since I failed to make it clear above. I do not think Collect should be sanctioned here but he should be advised that this was a de facto violation of his ban even if unintentional. Collect is a valuable editor and has much to contribute. I do not, however, see how not acknowledging technical violations, once reported - however reported, is of long term benefit to the project.

I do not know how issues of IP harassment are typically handled but, in my opinion, Collect should provide a CheckUser with a list of potential editors via email and have them crosscheck with these addresses. While this not be typical procedure it probably should be and in any case it might be able to nip this in the bud before it becomes a bigger issue. Jbh 22:25, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Glrx

"Collect is banned from any page relating to or making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace." The figure is of an ancient political figure, and Collect is clearly banned from Gary Hart's page or making an edit about Gary Hart. However, the file for deletion discussion is not a discussion about politics or political figures: it's about copyright, and Collect's edits were focussed on copyright issues. He mentions Rice but in the context of her owning the copyright; mention of Hart seems to be inside a quotation. Collect doesn't even come down as a keep or delete: Collect disputed arguments about Rice holding the copyright; Collect was silent on fair use. Collect may be testing boundaries, and he may want embarrassing photos of Hart published, but I would not ding him on this one. FWIW, I think the photo fails fair use, but Collect is adding valuable clarity to the debate. Glrx (talk) 20:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by John Carter

I'm sorry to say that, at least in my eyes, this has to be counted as being at least marginally political. I can see arguments that "diplomacy" and "politics" are unrelated, but I think that has to be counted as a bit of a stretch. Diplomats engage in government related work, and government generally qualifies as politics, broadly construed. Also, with at least one individual from roughly the same era, Biden, apparently actively considering running for president again, I don't think the argument that he has been grandfathered out of "politics" is well-based. He could well endorse one or another candidate in the race, as a formal candidate, and that would certainly be in the area of "politics." Having said all that, the nature of the existing sanction, to "politics," is itself problematic, as the definition of the term is itself open to question. Maybe particularly in this case, considering that the edit in question is from a discussion in which there seems to be some question of copyright violation. Maybe, at best, a statement from the AE enforcers about whether this is or is not within the scope of "politics," and, maybe, if so determined, a very short block, might be called for. BLP violations, in general, are not considered within the bounds of sanctions, and although I haven't gone into all the details of this case I would have to assume copyright violations might be similar to BLP in being outside the scope of regular sanctions. Maybe. John Carter (talk) 21:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Fyddlestix

This reporting-as-an-ip nonsense is incredibly petty and lame, and I think Collect is quite right to call for an SPI here. If the IP can be tied to another editor then that editor should obviously face some serious sanction.

That said; I'm sorry, but Hart is a former Senator and a political appointee of the Obama administration. If he's not a "political figure," then I'm a purple gorilla. And Collect's topic ban prohibits "making any edit about US politics or US political figures, in any namespace." For Collect to ~~edit the talk page of this article or have anything to do with any disputes related to it~~ make comments about Hart, or related to his article is a crystal clear violation of his topic ban. Fyddlestix (talk) 21:37, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Collect:, you're quite right about the talk page, my bad. I've struck that bit. Fyddlestix (talk) 22:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Collect: I can see your point, but in my mind wading into a debate over a photo of someone is pretty clearly an edit "about" the person in the photograph. Hopefully you can see how/why someone might reasonably hold that position. Anyways, it's for the admins here to judge, not me. Fyddlestix (talk) 00:46, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tryptofish

I also request that a Checkuser look into the filing IP, in relation to existing or past accounts. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:13, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by another editor

Result concerning Collect

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Hart has not been in politics per se for decades, though he remains politically affiliated (current work is diplomatic in nature). I think this is further from the explicit ban area than the July incident which was ruled a breaching experiment against the topic ban. It's not cleanly away from the area, but also far further removed. That said... The particular thing being edited about seems related to the prior political career. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
- Jbhunley - At some point it stops being politics and becomes history. The case that Hart remains tangentally political is valid, but his last discussions of office were 12 years ago. This photo was regarding something 28 years old. I believe that those are historical. Discussing Pres Carter's cancer would be a hypothetical clearly historical action. But other uninvolved admins need to weigh in. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
The OP should be sanctioned for abuse of process. Collect has not violated the topic ban. Guy (Help!) 21:16, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Hart is a political figure, but Collect's discussion was restricted to copyright issues. It would be absurd to sanction Collect for these comments. This strikes me as a frivolous request. Gamaliel (talk) 21:28, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
I agree with User:Gamaliel. This complaint also strikes me as being made in bad faith. The filer is clearly someone trying to evade scrutiny while attempting to seek action against another Wikipedian. Poor form, use your regular account to complain about others if it is not already blocked. Chillum 22:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
No action warranted. Let's close this one. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Arthur Rubin

Request concerning Arthur Rubin

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: HughD (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:22, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea_Party_movement#Discretionary_sanctions 5 September 2013
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea_Party_movement#Arthur_Rubin_topic-banned 5 September 2013
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea_Party_movement#August_2014_.28Arthur_Rubin.29 Arthur Rubin amendment 23 August 2014

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Disruption of an Request for Comment process through deletion of RfC notices and RfC notice updates for Tea party movement-related RfCs notices prior to the expiration of the RfC discussion period.

24 July 2015 deletion of an RfC notice regarding a Tea party movement article (Americans for Prosperity) from noticeboard WP:RSN with edit summary "Spam"
27 July 2015 removal via OneClickArchiver of an RfC notice regarding a Tea party movement article from the talk page of a closely related Tea party movement article (Talk:Political activities of the Koch brothers)
31 July 2015 deletion of an update to an RfC notice, providing a close date, regarding a Tea party movement article from noticeboard WP:NPOV
31 July 2015 deletion of an update to an RfC notice, providing a close date, regarding a Tea party movement article from noticeboard WP:ORN
31 July 2015 removal via OneClickArchiver of an RfC notice regarding a Tea party movement article from noticeboard WP:RSN

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

5 September 2013 Topic ban as party to Tea Party Movement case
14 December 2013 blocked for violation of Tea Party movement topic ban
block log
23 August 2014 Amendment request; TBan lifted; indefinite 1RR imposed, with appeal available August 2015

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision.
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log.
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 14 December 2013 by Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, 23 August 2014.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

WP:RFC specifically authorizes RfC notices to noticeboards and the talk pages of closely-related articles. WP:Discussion_notices#Best practices states that "regular updates may be appropriate" and identifies "setting a time for the discussion to end" as a best practice. An administrator of our project failing to model best practices, as expected of all editors in an area of discretionary sanctions, emboldens other editors and is seriously frustrating the goals of the Tea Party movement and American Politics final decisions in fostering an acceptable and collaborative editing environment. The reported user's amended remedy has proven ineffective. Respectfully request review of the reported behavior, re-evaluation of the amended remedy, and consideration of a re-instatement of the topic ban.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Arbitration enforcement request notice

Discussion concerning Arthur Rubin

Statement by Arthur Rubin

Hugh already brought this matter up. I can't help it that it got archived without a response from an uninvolved admin. I haven't kept track of Hugh's topic ban, but if it hasn't expired, this is in violation.

As for the edits in question, as far as I can recall, nobody but Hugh ever commented the the edits of his that I reverted weren't spam; technically, making announcements on unrelated pages might not be a violation of WP:CANVASS, but it is still improper. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 04:11, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Fyddlestix

I'm not gonna comment on whether or not Arthur needs sanctioning here, but I will say that the drama between Hugh, Arthur, and a few other editors (Springee springs to mind) seems to be getting out of control - I really think that admin action is needed to fix this, or it's going to just drag on and on.

See Hugh's previous report of Arthur here , the multiple ANI complaints against Hugh (only 1 of which led to any action), Hugh's own noticeboard complaints and the current report of Hugh at 3RR by Springee - note especially the allegation there that Hugh is being followed from article to article by a few other editors, including Arthur (as I've commented there, I think there's actually some evidence of this).

All that just over this summer, all involving more or less the same small circle of editors, and focusing on a small number of articles like Americans for Prosperity, which was paralyzed for a month by this complete disaster of an RFC. It's a mess; these editors are clearly not even trying to get along, and some of them are clearly "out to get" each other at this point. It needs addressing. Fyddlestix (talk) 22:21, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Arthur Rubin

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Why... Are these being made three weeks later?... ? Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:33, 23 August 2015 (UTC)