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1975-78:Fleetwood Mac and Rumours section. Re:Silver Springs.

Paragraph five, sentence two reads,"Nicks had also written and recorded the song "Silver Springs", but it was ultimately not included on the album because of space limitations for studio albums on vinyl records,which were limited to 24 minutes per side."

It seems to me that time constraints may not have been the only reason, if the real reason at all, for not including "Silver Springs" on "Rumours". I 'm not challenging the 24 minute limit. The Misplaced Pages article on L.P. records makes it clear that a 24 minute limit would be desirable for audio quality and/or technical reasons.

There is only one reference, at the end of the paragraph, for a fan site and link. (nicksfix.com/offtherecord.htm) The link contains a transcript from a radio interview with Nicks decades after the "Rumours" sessions. What is in the transcript doesn't quite match the above quote. In The interview Nicks says "Well, their reasons are, it was too long, and so, without asking me… or telling me… they recorded I Don’t Want to Know…. and put Silver Springs on the back of Go Your Own Way…. which was probably one of the most devastating things anybody has ever done to me in my life…."

Hmmmm. Earlier in the interview Nicks talks about the collaborative process of the band taking one of her songs and working on it to be recorded in the studio. Apparently, and she implies this, the song was set to be included on the album. ( the Wiki article on "Rumours" also states this. ) Seems to me the time issue would have come up at some point before the decision to include the song on the album. The running time for side one of "Rumours" ( per my copy, U.S. release 1977 ) is 19 minutes, 24 seconds, so a edited or re-recorded version of the song at around 4 minutes could have easily been included on the record on side one without any deletions of other songs. The 2004 C.D. release has the song after "Songbird", which could have been done as well in 1977 on side one of the L.P. with an edited or re-recorded version and been within the 24 minute limitation. ( Original studio version of "Silver Springs" is 4:48 as given in the "Rumours" Wiki article for the album. The Live version released as a single from "The Dance" in 1997 is 4:29 as given in the Wiki article for "Silver Springs". )

I accept the 24 minute limit for L.P. sides as an industry standard, and I believe the decision to include "Silver Springs" on "Rumours" had been made and later changed, and I believe an edited or re-recorded version of the song could have been included on the album within the 24 minute limitation, so then the 24 minute limitation as the only explanation for deletion of the song from "Rumours" in this article, just does not suffice for me, especially in light of what Nicks says in the interview from the reference given, and the more than four minutes that was available on side one of "Rumours".

The time constraint reason is repeated in the Wiki article for the song. The reference given there is for the 1997 Documentary of the making of the album, which I have not seen and, may give a satisfactory explanation.

Without a creditable reference to support the assertion that the song was excluded from "Rumours" solely because of the time constraints of L.P. records, it should be removed. I think a paraphrasing of what is said in the Wiki article on "Rumours" should be good enough for this article. "Silver Springs" (4:48), a song written by Nicks, was recorded at the same sessions and intended for inclusion on Rumours. It was eventually released as the B-side of "Go Your Own Way" and has been restored to later reissues of the album.

Also the last sentence of paragraph five in this section states, "The song, the rights to which are owned by Nicks' late mother Barbara...

There is nothing about Nicks Mother owing the rights to the song in the text the reference links to, this too should be referenced from a creditable source or removed.Jonel469 (talk) 15:46, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Good analysis and conclusion. The issues you bring up make me think that the issue needs more references telling about it rather than more contemplation on our part. Here's what I found out about "Silver Springs" in books:

• Rumours Exposed: The Unauthorized Biography of Fleetwood Mac, page 203
• Billboard, August 16, 1997
• Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album, pages 294–297. In this book, the engineer Ken Caillat says that the producer wanted to stay under 22 minutes per side (which would allow a higher quality sound with a deeper and wider groove than 24 minutes). Caillat puts the location as the Record Plant in Hollywood, not the one in Sausalito. He confirms that Nicks was unhappy, but he says she recorded a really good performance despite her bad reaction. Binksternet (talk) 16:16, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank You very much. Jonel469 (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Caillat also says there was a concern that the album would have too many slow songs. To me, that seems like the real reason for kicking out "Silver Springs", because its replacement was a fast song. The difference in time between the two songs is 3:16 versus 4:26, so only 70 seconds. Side Two runs about 20:02, plus some between-song silence, so the longer song would still have been less than 22:00 total. "Silver Springs" could have fit! Caillat describes how everybody but Nicks was happy about having the faster song in place of "Silver Springs". Binksternet (talk) 17:34, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I've changed sentence two and added one of the references you provided, and also removed the bit about song ownership from the last sentence. Jonel469 (talk) 17:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I was just reading the preface of "Making Rumours" and on page xiv Mr. Caillat says ..."all came together to create Rumours at the record plant in Sausalito", but then on 294 talks about it being hot in Hollywood, so looks like both Record Plants were used ? Jonel469 (talk) 18:41, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, both Record Plants were used. The northern one in Sausalito was used for tracking. The southern one in Hollywood was used for mixing, and for recording all of the replacement song "I Don't Want to Know". Just for absolute clarity, the first Record Plant was in New York City, but it was never visited by Nicks or Fleetwood Mac. Binksternet (talk) 23:50, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Unsourced nonsense?

Nicks performed in a series of shows in August 2010 (...) They did not contain any of her new music, because she did not want it to end up on YouTube. When Google'ing for this refusal to have her new music on YouTube, I only came up with Misplaced Pages copycat sites. So can we be sure she actually said that...ever? -andy 2.242.249.182 (talk) 14:05, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Kim Anderson

Infobox says marriage to Kim Anderson was 82-82 but Personal Life section says married in '83... anyone able to confirm which it is and correct it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.215.73 (talk) 14:25, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Picture

the picture used in her infobox is NOT from 2015...it appears to be from sometime between 2005-2008

External links modified

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Merger proposal

I am proposing that the song Blue Denim be merged into this article. The current article on the song does not appear to have significant reliable independent sources to demonstrate its notability, and as per WP:NSONG it seems like the song should be merged into the article about the artist. At least one other editor disagrees with me. Thoughts, anyone? KDS4444 20:01, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Here's a thought: why on earth would it be merged here instead of Street Angel (album)? I know that article is pretty bad, but any scraps of trivia information about the song should probably end up at the album article. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:04, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Good point, my bad. I will rearrange the merger proposal. KDS4444 05:45, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

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