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S Marshall

I'm sorry, I'm unfamiliar with Arbcom. Is this long silence normal?—S Marshall T/C 21:46, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

No, and I apologise for it. I had a couple of unexpected periods of inactivity recently which means I haven't had the time to read everything I need to read (the best part of a week with only very limited (and only insecure) internet access means I'm backlogged with many things), Euryalus is officially inactive (I can't remember whether the reason is public or not) and DGG has also been less active than usual recently - as have most of us actually. Realistically I'm not going to have the necessary time to progress this case until next week at the earliest. Thryduulf (talk) 22:32, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I see that QuackGuru has resumed his very active editing of the article in the meantime. Perhaps some kind of temporary injunction might be in order while we wait?—S Marshall T/C 22:47, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Please?—S Marshall T/C 13:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll flag the request up to my colleagues. As for progressing this case, I will remind all my colleagues that we need to get on with it - hopefully some of them will have more time than I do at present. Thryduulf (talk) 13:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something, his current editing is primarily technical, and totally uncontroversial. DGG ( talk ) 05:51, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Then why is the talk page as full as ever of complaints about it? Johnbod (talk) 13:11, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Virtually all of QuackGuru's editing is primarily technical, extremely well-sourced and closely matching the source material. His only editing technique is (1) find a factlet, snippet or statistic from a reliable source, (2) cite it carefully and precisely, (3) insert it into the article and (4) relentlessly guard it against all change. The problem is the detrimental effect he's having on the article's reability and the way he's obscuring the key points with repetitive, trivial factlets. It would be good if he could be stopped while Arbcom reads and considers, please.—S Marshall T/C 11:03, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you all for your time and attention. Would you please now close this case so I can take it back to AN/I without violating WP:FORUMSHOP.—S Marshall T/C 19:17, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

• Very well, I intend to close this case myself if there are no objections in the next few hours.—S Marshall T/C 16:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Yes, there very much is an objection. I know we are significantly behind on this, but that does not mean it has been forgotten about. Thryduulf (talk) 17:04, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
    • @Thryduulf:, this is really unfair. Arbcom won't allow the case to be closed so I can't take it elsewhere, and it isn't dealing with it, and it isn't communicating with the parties. Will you please close the case.—S Marshall T/C 17:27, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

• Well, I'm at a loss. Arbcom is supposed to be the last resort when all else fails. What do we do when Arbcom fails? All we've had from any of them for the last month is missed deadlines, broken promises and complete silence. They've completely ceased communicating with the parties and there's no evidence of activity on this case from any of them.

  Hello, Arbcom! Post something here. Post abuse if you like; direct insult would be preferable to this because then at least we'd know where we stand. Speak to us!

  Please do not assign someone else to start reading the case from scratch. In that event a rushed, ill-considered or half-assed ruling would be much too likely. Unless there's been activity that we can't see, then I feel that the correct course for you now would be to admit that you've failed and close the case.—S Marshall T/C 17:32, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

• The last resort has always traditionally been a post on User talk:Jimbo Wales, and I suppose that's where I take it once Arbcom have admitted defeat.—S Marshall T/C 17:33, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Cloudjpk: I haven't edited the disputed article during the Arbcom case, and would be happy to accept such an injunction for the time being. I'm not able to make head nor tail of QuackGuru's evidence --- it seems to consist of lots of diffs with no thesis and reach no conclusions --- but you seem to be able to, so maybe you could clarify that for me (not necessarily on the talk page for these proceedings though).

What I'd like is for some way to stop QuackGuru making even more of an incoherent mess of the article before the case ends. The task of cleaning up after him will be colossal enough as it is.—S Marshall T/C 09:19, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

@Cloudjpk: Consensus isn't something that decides in favour of one particular thing and then crystallises forever. It will be permissible for me to re-open the "known unknowns" discussion in future with a changed population of editors on the talk page, and I intend to do exactly that. I also intend to embark on building consensus for a sweeping programme of other changes to the article, if the outcome of this case is to make the talk page usable again. I have no idea why this is something you or QG are raising with Arbcom, as I have not edit-warred or engaged in any other problem behaviour to try to enforce my views against consensus.—S Marshall T/C 17:05, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

QuackGuru's evidence goes nowhere and neither does yours.—S Marshall T/C 18:46, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Cloudjpk

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I too am unfamiliar with Arbcom. I did not know there were temporary injunctions. If that's the case, we could start with you, S Marshall: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Editor_conduct_in_e-cigs_articles/Evidence#S_Marshall Or we could wait a little longer, accept that there are sometimes delays for good reasons, and let the process continue. Cloudjpk (talk) 00:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

The evidence shows QuackGuru greatly improved the article.

Now: without question there are further improvements that could be made, including cleanup. But most editors disagreed with you, S Marshall, when your idea of cleanup included removing material outlining what's currently unknown about e-cigarettes. See Talk:Electronic cigarette/Archive 25#Known unknowns 2.

It is my perception, S Marshall, that you are simply waiting for this Arbcom case to be over to make radical changes to the article including deleting all the known unknowns, rather than accepting consensus and moving on. Cloudjpk (talk) 16:23, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Getting a "new consensus" from "a changed population of editors" S Marshall, could be confused with advancing a content agenda by means of restricting editors who disagree with you.

I understand you believe have not engaged in any problem behaviour such as pushing your views against consensus. But the evidence says otherwise. Cloudjpk (talk) 18:17, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

AlbinoFerret

I orignally asked about the possibility of adding evidence on Thryduulf's talk page here. I was unable to add evidence because of a 6 month self ban from the topic that has ended. While some of the evidence is on topics that have already been brought up such as ownership, and competency. I have evidence they are not just isolated instances but patterns that go back into the past. I also have evidence of long term NPOV violations that have not been addressed. As well as some evidence about tag teaming. AlbinoFerret 19:53, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I will bring this to the attention of the arbs, but generally speaking once the evidence phase is closed, new evidence is not permitted. Lankiveil 14:40, 17 September 2015 (UTC).

Lankiveil has there been any determination on this request? AlbinoFerret 12:40, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

While I would like the case to progress. I dont think closing it as S.Marshell has requested is a good idea. History has shown that little is accomplished at AN/I when dealing with this set of pages. AlbinoFerret 23:16, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Levelledout

Talk regarding closure

Whilst the slow progress is frustrasting, a lot of evidence has been collected and submitted by various users, it wouldn't be right to simply close the case without a conclusion.Levelledout (talk) 17:30, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed decision

Due to the inactivity of other Arbitrators on this case, I will be picking it up and hope to have a PD on or before the 3rd. Apologizes for the delay. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 23:30, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Another deadline missed! Johnbod (talk) 13:07, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Enough is Enough

To expand, I know that the case has dragged on and on, and trust me, I want to see a proposed decision and resolution as much as the rest of you. L235 and I have both privately raised this delay on the clerks list, but we're in the dark as much as the rest of you on the reasons for the hold up and when we can expect an update. This talk page however, is not the place to complain about that, or about the process generally; it is solely for discussion of the proposal itself, and further off-topic remarks will be removed without comment. Lankiveil 03:58, 9 October 2015 (UTC).

The proposed decision's failure to exist is very much about the proposal itself. And you could be a part of the solution by closing the case as undecided. As it stands, ArbCom is being intentionally disruptive and should be removed. 207.38.156.219 (talk) 11:12, 9 October 2015 (UTC)