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Revision as of 13:25, 10 August 2006

Title

This may not be the best name - please feel free to rename it as you see fit! Tell me to get back to work! 06:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Why not rename it "2006 transatlantic plane terror plot"? — Rickyrab | Talk 08:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not happy with "plane" to be honest... do we have any precedents we could use? Budgiekiller 08:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This has Al Qaeda written all over it. Need I mention the bombs/simultanious mid-air detonations in the Bojinka plot? If this comes out, how's about "2006 Al Qaeda Transatlantic Terror Plot"?--DasGooch 08:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The name of the group is almost never used in article titles. --Golbez 09:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

"2006 Transatlantic terror plot"? Budgiekiller 09:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm a newb. Pardon. Though, I am liking "2006 Transatlantic terror plot." --DasGooch 09:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Or should I say "2006 transatlantic terror plot"? Budgiekiller 09:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

But the word "terror" used in this way is so nasty! What ever happened to terrorism or terrorist plots? MyNameIsClare talk 09:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

True enough. "2006 transatlantic terrorist plot"? Budgiekiller 09:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good for me. Tell me to get back to work! 09:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we should wait until there is more information, like confirmation of the outbound and destination airports, or airlines, or groups involved. Anything we do now will just have to be changed later, and I'm not sure that this suggestion is any more descriptive or correct. |→ Spaully°τ 09:36, 10 August 2006 (GMT)

Sure. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Budgiekiller 09:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I say "2006 transatlantic flight explosion plot". Will 10:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, seems like someone doesn't like to discuss changes. Page has now been renamed, and badly in my opinion. Budgiekiller 10:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Can we please reach some sort of consensus before changing the title again? --Zimbabweed 10:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

And when we do, can we spell it properly please?! Budgiekiller 10:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Isn't "transatlantic" an unnecessary bit of info? It's not as though we have to distiniguish it from any other aircraft bomb plots.  -- Run!  12:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This name is absolutely awful. '2006 UK Aircraft Terror Plot' would be much more appropriate. 'Transatlantic' is simply inaccurate, it is too early to say which flights were targetted for sure. flight cancellations from european airlines show that it may not be just US airlines that were targetted. 84.71.0.89 13:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Terror level?

It said the level was raised from "'severe' to 'critical'", but there are two severes on Joint Terrorist Analysis Centre. So which one is it? WP 09:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The Home Office site only has one "severe" MyNameIsClare talk 09:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

From what I gather, UK went to the highest. In the US, specific flights are now bumped up to their own "Red" level. --DasGooch 09:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. is at orange for domestic flights and red for U.K. flights.--66.188.202.116 09:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Current UK state of alert at 14:00 10/08/06 is "Critical" http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/current-threat-level/

Links

I notice that we are putting all sorts of links to actual terrorists incidents - at the moment all we have is a CLAIM of a incident. This could be just another forrest gate or ricin plot type case, however by putting in the links aren't we engaged in a form of crystal-balling ?

--Charlesknight 09:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. We should probably (at the most) link to foiled plots (e.g. shoe bomber), but as you say, eve that is, perhaps, ball-gazing. Budgiekiller 09:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The rationale behind the Flight 182 link was that it was a transatlantic bombing. I do agree that we need to maintain a healthy skepticism here though. Tell me to get back to work! 09:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed the lists... Tell me to get back to work! 09:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The ricin plot was real, several people were convicted of conspiracy to cause a public nuisance, which is a serious offence, carrying a maximun sentnece of life in prison.Dolive21 10:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Several people? Then the BBC and wikipedia are wrong. According to Wood Green no-ricin plot & only 1 person (who was not convicted of conspiracy to commit murder because of a hang jury). Everyone else charged was acquited and several other people charged had their cases dropped. Also, from what I can tell no evidence of ricin was found Bourgass may not have been a very nice person, he was convicted of murder previously and a plot may even have been considered but there is no real clear evidence it got very far. Nil Einne 11:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Name

not "airplane" please. Rich Farmbrough 10:40 10 August 2006 (GMT).

• Budgiekiller changed it. plane is more sepcific than craft though.. no helicopters involved. --Irishpunktom\ 10:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

just wanted to ask if tansatlantic, without R in it is good, when it was moved to it :) --195.56.248.2 10:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• That was my fault! --Irishpunktom\ 10:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Folks, this is an allegation. The title should reflect as much. --Irishpunktom\ 10:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

No, the title should reflect the common perception. The article can challenge that.

Rich Farmbrough 10:48 10 August 2006 (GMT).

no, the name should be as neutral as the article! --Irishpunktom\ 10:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

People, please stop renaming this article continously. We'll figure out the best name later. You are creating a vast amount of double redirects here. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Please please stop changing the title every two minutes, I can hardly follow which redirect is redirecting me to the redirect... Budgiekiller 10:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

"plane" is fine with or without the apostrophe... Rich Farmbrough 10:51 10 August 2006 (GMT).

The POV title tag is fine for now, at least give it some rest for the coming hours. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The POV-title tag is horrible considering that this is on the Main Page. It's not a POV title, just one that is not consensually agreed yet. violet/riga (t) 10:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

POV tag removed is also fine with me, as long as people stop moving the article around. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The title has a pov, as such, the {{POV-title}} is fine. --Irishpunktom\ 11:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Only one editor seems to want to have the POV-title tag on (at least, only one seems to be adding it). Several seem to want it off. To me, that's as near to consensus as we can get on a fast-moving story like this. I've taken it off again. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 11:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This name is absolutely awful. '2006 UK Aircraft Terror Plot' would be much more appropriate. 'Transatlantic' is simply inaccurate, it is too early to say which flights were targetted for sure. flight cancellations from european airlines show that it may not be just US airlines that were targetted. 84.71.0.89 13:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Every report so far says transatlantic flights were targeted. European flights are cancelled as much because no-one wants to fly into the UK, which is locked down, as for security reasons. Shimgray | talk | 13:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Number of Planes

Does anyone know the number of planes that were planning to be blown up. All news stations giving different numbers Sky News: 6 CNN: 20 BBC: 5

sam

The BBC and police have both said "up to 10". CNN would inflate things... Budgiekiller 10:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I guess they have a dilemma nowdays. If they say 10, then everyone will think it's 5. So what should they do? Nil Einne 11:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

MSNBC is also saying 10. alphaChimp 12:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

--84.71.0.89 13:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Time

"It was confirmed by a Metropolitan Police Service deputy commissioner that 21 people were in custody as of 9:49 GMT after arrests in both London and the West Midlands." Are we surte this isn't "BST" ? Rich Farmbrough 10:50 10 August 2006 (GMT).

I just added a CNN ref for that. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.

It's become "this morning" by now, no need for excess precision. Shimgray | talk | 11:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

High Wycombe

I've been told that a house was raided in High Wycombe (where I live) - there are three news helicopters going around filming! Trampikey 10:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Well, a house in Hackney was raided, thats all I know so far. --Irishpunktom\ 11:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Flights from Paris

These were cancelled, but I don't rmember if it was the Airport on Air France that reported it. ANyone fill the gap? Rich Farmbrough 10:59 10 August 2006 (GMT).

http://challengestempsreel.nouvelobs.com/business/art_57977.html ("L'état du réseau")

(quick translation)

- British Airways: no flights in destination of europe until 2pm GMT.

- Lufthansa et Air Berlin: flights going to great britain cancelled. until 2pm (Lufthansa).

- Bruxelles' airport: flights from and to london cancelled or delayed.

- Air France: flights to london cancelled until 12h GMT. air france will reassess the situation in the afternoon.

- Portugal : flights to london cancelled, in the following airports: Lisbon, Porto, Faro 's international airports, and for the following airlines: TAP Portugal, British Airways, Air France, Lufthansa and Olympic Airlines.

- Alitalia (italian): No planes to london in the morning

- Ryanair (lowcost, italian): all planes to great britain cancelled for today.

- Iberia: flights cancelled untill 12 gmt.

- Qantas : Increased security check for all flights from and to great brittain. Passengers will only be able to take the bare minimum with them inside the plane: passport, waller, plane tickets, preferably in a transparant bag.

- KLM: all planes to London-Heathrow cancelled until further notice.

- aéroport de Nice: 1.500 passengers waiting.

- BAA has asked that all planes going to London-Heathrow that had not yet departed be kept on hold.

FiP 11:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

International Reactions

Can everyone try to find international reactions, I have only been able to find U.S. reactions. Hello32020 11:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It's still rather early yet... Everyone is trying to marshall their facts before the go PRing. --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust (T C) 11:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Cite for gridlock

here's the Today programme which reported it. Rich Farmbrough 11:13 10 August 2006 (GMT).

I can't get that link to work. Have you got a text source? WLD 11:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

gatwick

flights out of gatwick are going ahead, i just phoned US airways and they said flights are as normal.

--Greg.loutsenko 11:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the referenced BBC News article was updated - it originally said all flights (as announced on the live BBC News TV stream). zoney ♣ talk 11:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

FYI for BAA websites

This is just an FYI advisory message...

The websites for BAA (Formerly British Airports Authority) airports have been... crippled, intentionally, I think. Pages which once existed (and probably still do) are being reported as 404 Not Found errors and most traffic is being redirected to an "Important Message" page outlining the current restrictions and what not. --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust (T C) 11:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you give the URL Hello32020 11:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

http://www.baa.co.uk/ --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust (T C) 11:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Good page, just added it to the UK Govt Links section. HawkShark 13:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words?

The first line is currently 'The 2006 transatlantic aircraft plot is an alleged plan devised by apparently British terrorists that London's Metropolitan Police claims to have foiled.'. I know that we can't prove anythinbg, but that's alleged/apparently/claims in one sentence. -- 193.235.128.1 11:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Credit to all the authors for varying their word choice and not using the same word over and over again. --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust (T C) 11:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it's a bit over the top. Could we take out "apparently" as that section is covered by the earlier "allegedly"? --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 11:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank God

Thank God that police made the arrests before the terrorists blow up the planes, taking the life of many innocent people.

--Kaaveh 11:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, let's hope that they got everybody. I'm a little concerned if they raised the threat level this high. alphaChimp 12:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Reid press conferance

Removing the citation flag on John Reid's statement as it is a quote from a was a live press conferance covered by several major television channels, including BBC News. Tsaetre 11:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Do we have any of the currently used news stories quoting it? Shimgray | talk | 11:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I've come across Norwegian press quoting the statement , will continue for any English speaking reference. Tsaetre 11:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

yes, especially since i am flying to usa from gatwick on sunday. i hope everything will be back to somekind of normal.--Greg.loutsenko 13:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed mention of "binary explosives"

I have removed the following statement:

These may have been binary explosives, which would be inert until mixed.

since it appears to be unsourced speculation. -- The Anome 11:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

They were certainly talking about that on Five Live this morning, but I agree, it should stay out unless sourced. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 12:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems like a good insight, but it's just not verifiable. alphaChimp 12:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This article will be undergoing alot of changes for the few days, so anything that can be verified should be {{fact}}'d or removed. Yanksox 12:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Or just {{citeneeded}}. A lot of the additions seem very reasonable and plausable. I'm sure references will be forthcoming. alphaChimp 12:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Chertoff just confirmed it in the US press conference. As soon as we get a reference, we should add it to the article. alphaChimp 12:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

this article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060810/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_terror_plot mentions combining explosives, though not neccisarily "binary."

Walton Drive evacuation

I don't know if I can or how I can cite a news programme as a source, but it just reported it on BBC News 24, Sky channel 503. Trampikey 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

For those of us not in the UK, could you clarify what Walton Drive is? alphaChimp 12:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It's a street in Wycombe - it's where the one reported arrest there was. Shimgray | talk | 12:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The "LATEST" bar at the top is reporting this; so there shold be a news article online soon. Trampikey 12:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Too bad google doesn't have real-time spysats... Weregerbil 12:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

spurious High Wycombe reports

Someone keeps adding in:

From the information so far released the group appears to have consisted of between 25-35 people, with 21 so far detained, the majority from a town west of London called High Wycombe, there are currently a number of people on the run in woodland area surrounding the houses that were raided and they are being hunted down using helicopters and dogs. The group is suspected to consist almost entierly of British born Muslims of Pakistani origin are suspected to have been planning the terrorist attacks for months, with possible support from Al Qaeda, and may have visited Pakistan for training.

This doesn't seem to be the case - I haven't seen a story saying 25-35, or making any reference to fugitives "on the run" - and it certainly isn't cited "from information so far released". I've removed this five or so times now - it's recently had a BBC news story added on the end which doesn't support the claims. Not sure what's up here - I guess it's someone's personal theory - but people might want to keep an eye on it. Shimgray | talk | 12:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Good work!

Hi, just wanted to say, great article in such a short space of time! Stevage 12:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, very impressive! 83.88.169.167 12:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yep, we are all very good people. Thomasmallen 13:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

the problem is that these kind of articles tend to be forgotten fairly quickly so we have lots of stuff in the present or future tense and hypothetical situations still being there even after several weeks have elapsed.--Greg.loutsenko 13:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Hate to agree with something so cynical but its true, this will fall by the side as some other celebrity becomes pregnant, divorced, or changes their sex. HawkShark 13:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)