Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 13:25, 5 September 2006

Mille Bornes

Hi, I just recently was able to remember the name of the card game I played when I was young, and I've been looking everywhere for any information I can find on it. Since you apparently created the card images shown on the mille bornes page, I figure you might be able to help me out. I know I also had a computer version of it, years ago, but I can't seem to find any mille bornes programs that aren't for mobile phones or something. Do you know of any? Barring that, its getting to the point where I just want to print out my own deck, and laminate the cards myself. Thanks for any help at all you can give me. --Monguin61 21:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure what help you need. Whether you want to play Mille Bornes with real cards and real people or with any number of electronic games, there is ample opportunity.

• While researching the topic I generated the workpage Talk:Mille Bornes/work. This is just a page of disorganized notes but you'll see several computer versions listed, often with direct exteral links. Mille Bornes seems to have been ported, with or without license, to every imaginable platform.

• Real cards are widely available; the game is in re-release. I found a deck at Toys "R" Us; I've seen them at Target and, I think, Walgreens. Failing joy at your local big-box retailer, you can order the game online through any number of outlets.

• The new deck is (IMPO) ugly -- flashy but unplayable. Fortunately, many old decks are for sale on eBay. This game has always been extremely popular and produced in large quantity -- so no need to overpay. You might get a nice 1962 deck for about the same as a new one!

• The images I created to illustrate the article (eg, Image:MB-roll.png) are intended for that purpose alone; they are of fairly low resolution, besides being of extremely simple design. They are however licensed freely under GFDL and you are welcome to download and print a set. If you really want to do this, you may want to coordinate with me; the original workfiles are vector illustrations so I can send you much higher-resolution versions.

I don't see how I can be of further help but please, don't hesitate to ask again. John Reid 00:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't realize there was anything useful on the work page. I've been searching for anything I can think of in an effort to find some sort of computer version, but with no luck. I guess I was kind of hoping you'd know of some free computer version for windows, but there is that link to the java version, which is a lot more than I've been able to find. That's plenty good for me. Thanks. --Monguin61 05:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I won't swear that there's anything useful there. At one time, I put considerable time into researching Mille Bornes and its ancestor, Touring. It's always feast or famine around here; either your work gets cut up by a dozen sidewalk superintendents or you can't get any help at all. I took it so far and nobody showed interest so I dropped it.

Here's a shareware MB-clone purported to run under Windows:

http://www.dejavusoftware.com/row/

Have fun! John Reid 20:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Template:Buzzword

Just a note to let you know that I created a new cleanup template there. Not sure that the name is the best possible name, but I'm not sure how a Template:Bullshit would fly. The concerns I have are addressed more fully at Template talk:Buzzword.

Dropping you a note because you had responded supportively to my statements about this issue when it came up last April on Misplaced Pages:Centralized discussion/Method Engineering Encyclopedia. Looking to enlist more people to tag That Sort of Thing when they see it. - Smerdis of Tlön 15:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Please see WP:META. Thank you for inspiring me. John Reid 11:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Add Template:Cent to CBB?

The more I think about it, the more I like Template:Cent. In fact, I like it so much, I proposed adding it to the Community Portal. I hope you'll add your 2¢. Rfrisbie 15:59, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Template:Cent

John, you asked me to upload a screenshot of the way {{Cent}} looks to me. Please check it out at User talk:Metropolitan90. I believe the problem may have to do with the fact that the colors were encoded with three hex digits instead of six. --Metropolitan90 01:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I hope I've corrected the problem; let me know. John Reid 04:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

SPUI - Roads - Cent

You removed Misplaced Pages:Guide to writing about U.S. state highways. This is talking about a different thing than the current debate. The current debate only deals with article names, while my guide starts with the current decision there and talks about what actually goes in articles. --SPUI (T - C) 04:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's venue-shopping. John Reid 04:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Venue-shopping for WHAT? This is a different issue, one that has not been discussed much. --SPUI (T - C) 04:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Template:User Nogus

Erm, what? Why are you telling me this? --Rory096 05:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest. Follow the link. I think it's wrong. Please do as you see fit. John Reid 05:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Wrong about what? That it's inflammatory and divisive? I have no idea, I can't see the template; it's deleted. --Rory096 05:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

This is an out of process deletion. I think that the fact you can't see the template to form your own opinion is a good argument aginst deletion. I find the edit summary bigoted and the actor unrepentant. You may want to read the discussion on the actor's talk. Do as you think best. Thanks for coming by. John Reid 05:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see why you put that on my talk page. Perhaps some sort of explanation is in order. And I suggest you seem my comment on Kingboyk's talk page. Ungovernable Force 05:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought you might be interested; if not, please accept my apologies. John Reid 05:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Please stop spamming, or I will have to block you. If you have a point to make, then make kindly it in an appropriate forum. --bainer (talk) 06:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Replied in the appropriate place. John Reid 06:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

A better option would be to just take this to deletion review and/or ask for it to be userfied. Please stop spamming user talk pages without any explanation - it'll make things worse for you. —AySz88\^-^ 06:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the best option is to stick a rag in the mouth of anyone who disagrees with GUS. That will surely solve all problems, finally. John Reid 08:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You're surely making the false assumption that I have a strong viewpoint on this issue. My promise to you: make a template which opposes the GUS but which doesn't immediately make me think of the "final solution" and I will not touch it. There's no need for clever wording is there? Just "This user opposes the German Userbox Solution". I mean, come on, are you seriously trying to say that "sleepless nights" and "German solutions" aren't intended to conjur up images of persecuted citizens lying in bed at night trembling with fear?

The deletion was done under WP:CSD T1 ("Templates that are divisive and inflammatory.") as I thought my deletion summary made clear, and I posted notification of my action for admin review. Nobody else has disagreed.

You're more than welcome to take the matter to DRV but it would be much easier to create a new template with gentler wording. --kingboyk 09:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You did not criticize the template's wording in your deletion summary; you said the image was "Nazi symbology." Now that you know it's not, you're shifting your ground to words. I'm not responsible for putting "German" and "Solution" into the name of the proposal -- really, I'm not. If you find that juxtaposition offensive, you need to take it up with Ashley Y, who created the page. While you're at it, you might want to revert the German flag on top. I don't have a problem with it.

I appreciate your promise to allow me express myself as I see fit within the bounds of decency; I think I've already done so. I don't know why Nogus gives you frightening visions and so I don't know how to make anything that won't upset you.

This is a wiki, Kingboyk. The template is not my personal property; I don't even assert primary control over it. It's in template namespace, not my userspace. Think about it. I'd appreciate it if you left the reference to disturbed sleep. I neither oppose nor support GUS; I oppose the vicious and contentious way in which it's being forced on an unwilling community. Wrestling with the fallout keeps me awake when I should be sleeping.

If you believe it just has to read This user opposes the forcible out-of-process imposition of the German Userbox Solution then edit this box. That makes you part of the solution -- the real solution -- and not part of the problem. John Reid 10:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

John, let me honest with you. I am a German. while I'm two generations apart from those that performed those horrible atrocities, I believe in the motto "never forget, so it may never happen again". I feel deeply disturbed by what you did. Trying to indirectly compare the implementation of WP:GUS with The Holocaust is beyond bad taste. We had difficulties, we had disagreements, but I respected you as an individual and editor. I do not think I am able to do that any more. CharonX/talk 16:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Charon, you have got the wrong end of this entirely. I never said anything about Nazism nor did I stick a swastika or Nazi-era symbol in the template. That was Kingboyk's interpretation and I think he sees his error now. The coat of arms I used is seen everywhere in the modern Germany. I think you know this.

You're German; good, so am I. In my part of Pennsylvania, anyone who is not German is "English". I'm offended by the thought that somehow the stain of Nazism is so indelible that it leaches into every criticism of anything vaguely German. WP:GUS, strictly speaking, is not even really German; the idea originated on de: but it's a page on en:. I don't think Germans are driving it, let alone neo-Nazis. Do you? I think it's silly to call it the "German" anything but it's too late to fix that now.

What you see in Nogus says a lot more about you and your fears and biases than about me and mine. I say GUS disturbs my rest; you draw an analogy between GUS and stormtroopers bashing down doors at midnight. There does indeed seem to be an autocratic element driving GUS but this has nothing to do with Germans or Nazis. You're just endorsing a stereotype -- raising Hitler's ghost in order to blame me for the necromancy.

I hate to reason via what if but I can't resist this time. Let's say -- for whatever reason -- that this notion to userfy UBX happened to go under the name of Misplaced Pages:Mexican Userbox Solution ("WP:MUX"). Let's say that the war proceeded exactly as it has; and finally, let's say I created Template:User Nomux. Rather than describe, I'll sketch it for you.

This user sleeps poorly when Mexican Solutions are imposed.

This looks a bit shabby because I haven't fixed the coat of arms to conform to overall UBX expectations but you get the idea. Coincidentally, the Mexican coat of arms also includes an eagle. Otherwise, the content is identical to Nogus.

So, what stereotype would you say this expresses? Mexican government has also had a fascist element -- as have many modern governments, US included. Would you say this template evokes images of Federales dragging citizens off in the night? It has happened. Or do you laugh at that image, preferring lazy paisanos in sombreros? Is your mental picture of the Mexican Userbox Solution "Leave the boxes until mañana"? Perhaps you don't read anything into it other than This user doesn't rest well when admins go around deleting UBX out of process, forcing a "solution" on people who don't want it. That's all it says.

The point of this what if is that the Nazi stereotype is coming out of your head -- not the box. Maybe it's not possible for anyone to oppose the way GUS is being forced on us without surfacing your own worst nightmares. But that's your problem. Sorry. As I told Kingboyk, you can always edit the box and try to improve it. First, put it back.

I'm mildly astonished that everyone does not immediately see Godwin's Law in action here. Kingboyk used the word Nazi to describe the box; by longstanding Internet tradition, that ends the discussion and he loses. John Reid 10:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I have to apologize to you John. I believed what I heared (that the eagle + swastika was used in this box) plus the fact that the box said "German Solutions" and acted rashly and violently. As you said, this IS quite a sensitive issue to me, and I admit that I'm strongly biased there. Horrible as that chapter was, it seems (to me) it already has begun to fade from memory, turn into just another page in the history book, for too many people. I'm sorry John, I acted with a temper, without thinking - I hope you accept my apology. CharonX/talk 11:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It has not faded from my memory. Restore this illegally deleted item and although I won't forget it, I'll certainly become much more calm. John Reid 13:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Erm, what about it? Misza13 10:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

You've been blocked for 24 hours for internal spamming. Considering how long you've been around you really should know better. Put yourself in someone else's shoes; if spamming was a commonly accepted practice and everyone was doing it and not getting blocked for it, how would you appreciate getting random unsolicited messages every day about things you could care less for? --Cyde Weys 13:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You are just acting out your anti-UBX bias -- in direct contradiction to your RfA promise not to do so. This is exactly the heavy-handed abuse of power I wish to speak out against. Of course you gag me. But what's the point? I'm a busy man; my life isn't going to be upset because I get some paid work done instead of this stuff. I'm certainly not going to alter my opinion. Do you think you can terrorize the rest of the project into conforming to your rigid vision? History tells us: In the long run, repression fails.

Block if you like -- I think occasional blocking is healthy for every editor -- but restore the expression or resign your position as admin. You discard all legitimacy otherwise. John Reid 08:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Posting a concern

John, you're a good editor, I'm not disputing that, and I'm not looking for an argument, but I am concerned at your language and manner in this edit and this edit. I think you need to cool down a bit, and perhaps refresh yourself with WP:OWN, WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Take a step back and unwind a little maybe? There seem to be a few concerns with your style edits at {{cent}}, would it hurt to explain and build consensus for them? I remember when you followed the WP:1RR. Anyway, take it easy regardless. Steve block Talk 16:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)