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Revision as of 23:23, 13 October 2006

Northenglish

Voice your opinion. (31/3/0) Ending 22:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Northenglish (talk · contribs) – I am pleased to nominate Northenglish (or NORTH) for adminship. His earlier nomination failed with many Wikipedians expressing the opinion that he needed more experience. He has gained that experience in the last three months. In addition to participating in xfD debates , he is active in several highway wikiprojects one of which he started himself. His participation in the surprisingly fractious debates surrounding U.S. state highway naming has always been civil and constructive. I am confident that Misplaced Pages will benefit from his having the mop. Eluchil404 03:58, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I am pleased and honored to accept this nomination. -- NORTH 22:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:

1. What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please check out Category:Misplaced Pages backlog and Category:Administrative backlog, and read the page about administrators and the administrators' reading list.

A: In my prior nomination, I indicated that I would most like to help with the backlogs surrounding XfD debates. In fact, looking at the backlogs at TfD and MfD was what prompted me to nominate myself several months ago. Since that time, I participated in XfD debates on a daily basis until my wikibreak. (I did not have a reliable internet connection while on break from university.) After I complete the to-do list on my user page -- based on tasks I've inherited from WP:SRNC -- I plan on bringing my XfD participation up to and beyond its prior levels.

I am also interested in keeping an eye on WP:ANI and WP:AE. Whenever I was invloved with an incident there, I was more than willing to participate, and occasionally would research other incidents on the page at the time and offer my neutral third-party opinion. If I were to be made an administrator, I would be more than happy to keep a more regular eye on those pages.

2. Of your articles or contributions to Misplaced Pages, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?

A: As Eluchil404 stated, I am an extremely active participant in the various state highway WikiProjects here on Misplaced Pages. I have actually started two of them on my own (the NJ one he linked to, as well as WP:ORSH), and plan on starting one for West Virginia. In starting the Oregon one, I also created new SVG images for every route, and edited every article to bring them in line with the WikiProject guidelines as well as the new style guideline created as a result of WP:SRNC.

I am very pleased with the way the state highway debates have been resolved recently, and was glad to play some small part in that along with my fellow editors. On less minor issues, I have led and resolved discussions in various places. (See sections 2 and 4 on WT:WASH, and a great many sections on WT:NJSCR.)

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: In Eluchil404's humble opinion, I have remained civil in the state highway naming debates. In my humble opinion, I will say that I tried my hardest to do so. There were some minor concers with incivility in my previous nomination, and I have tried my hardest to correct that. I am sure that many editors will be quick to point out incivility when I made my temporary (advertised as permanent) departure from Misplaced Pages. I am not proud of that decision, nor what I said leading up to that decision. I think wikibreaks are wonderful things, and resolve to take them in the future before I get close to the levels of incivility. I did not participate in WP:SRNC until after Part I was complete and the most important decision had been made. Some might accuse me of turning coward for not participating in that part of the discussion, but I honestly had no vested interest in which Principle would be adopted, and I felt my time could be better spent elsewhere on Misplaced Pages.

In my recent conflicts, I have decided that it is often best to simply take a step back and breathe, then discuss things logically and rationally until a conclusion is reached (whether or not that conclusion is what you originally agreed with).

Question from Malber (talk · contribs)

4. What do the policy of WP:IAR and the essay WP:SNOW mean to you and how would you apply them?

A: Ignore all rules is a policy that needs to be applied very carefully. Rules do exist on Misplaced Pages, and they exist for a reason. WP:IAR does not say ignore all of the rules all of the time. I actually prefer Misplaced Pages:Interpret all rules. Rules should be followed when it is reasonable to do so. Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines are not perfect, however, and they make room for exceptions. Following the spirit of the rule and participating in the Misplaced Pages community civilly are more important than following the letter of the law. Not every policy violation deserves iron-fist blocking, and a rare few deserve no consequence whatsoever.

WP:SNOW is a useful device that can prevent debates from becoming too fractured. For example, it is often the case with blatantly non-notable articles that when brought to AfD, every experienced editor "votes" to delete, whereas the inexperienced creator of the article (and often a couple of his/her friends) adamantly demand it be kept. The snowball clause allows an administrator to close the debate after (for example) only a day when 10 editors have supported its deletion and no editor with a legitimate reason has supported its being kept. This, IMHO, is much better than allowing the debate to run the full five days with unnecessary threaded discussion and immaturity/incivility.

Question from Doc glasgow (talk · contribs)

5 Have you previously edited under any other username?

A: No, I have not. There are well more than two possible interpretations to the situation that Cyde Weys gives below. One additional one -- and the correct one -- is that because my "expertise" is in highways, I was thrust into the highways debate from the moment I entered Misplaced Pages. My comment "I have been nice to SPUI up to this point" that Freakofnurture cites meant not that I had been directly nice to SPUI prior to then, rather merely that I had refrained from villifying him as had other editors involved in the debate. I did not mean to describe the MedCabal case itself as controversial and protracted (although any user can read the case and determine whether or not it is now, regardless of whether or not they were present at the time); my comment was meant to describe the debate as a whole, which must have been controversial and protracted in order to get to MedCabal.

I have never claimed to have been invloved with the highway debate prior to April. But one doesn't have to be involved with the debate in order to know what happened and what was said prior to that point.

If I follow correctly, you were inwardly nice to SPUI (most of us are) prior to joining the highway debate, and prior to creating an account for that matter, as you've stated you had no previous usernames. If I may ask a couple more things, since they are not explicitly covered in Doc's question above: (A) Did you previously edit Misplaced Pages solely as an anonymous user? (B) Were you in any way acquainted/familiar with User:SPUI in any online forum or venue other than en.wikipedia? If so, your comments would begin to make sense. Also, you assert that you were "thrust into the highways debate from the moment entered Misplaced Pages". Perhaps this thrusting occurred off-site, as I searched various ranges of page titles using a recent database dump, and didn't even see any foreplay. I could look again after dinner, or if you've got diffs you might spare me the time. —freak(talk) 23:23, Oct. 13, 2006 (UTC)

Statement

I know my nomination is probably fairly controversial. But I encourage all those considering me for adminship to realize that no one is perfect, and I come to Misplaced Pages with a level head, older and wiser than I was before.

General comments

• See Northenglish's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool.

Discussion (for expressing views without numbering)

Support

1. Support per nom. Michael 22:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
2. Support Seems like a good article creator. Has started quite a lot of new content. Though I would want you to broaden your admin activites. Seems like every potential admin just wants to close AFD's though i have nothing against it. --Ageo020 (talk • contribs • count) 22:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
3. Support. Although I was a bit worried at first when I looked at the number of user talk edits, I saw that the user has contributed to Misplaced Pages-related and article-related discussions. I have no worries abuot this user. Nishkid64 23:02, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
4. Support as nominator Eluchil404 23:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
5. Support T REX_speak 23:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
6. Support per user's exemplary actions at WP:SRNC. --physicq (c) 01:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
7. Swimming support per nom. Well done, sir. Grandmasterka 01:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
8. Strong support Remained civil and cooperative during WP:SRNC and stuff beforehand, diligent worker. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
9. Support. Civil and cooperative, has contributed a lot to Misplaced Pages. --Esteban F. 02:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
10. Support per nom. Couldn't have said it better myself. A great all-around editor and contributor. --TMF 04:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
11. Very Strong Support per last and this nom. Rama's arrow 04:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
12. Support I will support but I would like to see more vandalfighting evidence with user Talk warnings in the future. (aeropagitica) 04:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
13. 1ne 05:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
14. Support - no reason not to. —Khoikhoi 05:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
15. Support --Terence Ong _{(T | C)} 06:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
16. Appears to be a well-versed user. >Radiant< 09:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
17. Support. utcursch | talk 11:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
18. Support. - Mailer Diablo 16:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
19. Support A good established user. Hello32020 19:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
20. Support Well, I can't find any reasons not to. A good editor. --Siva1979 19:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
21. Support solid candidate willing to help clear backlogs. Addhoc 20:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
22. Support weel qualified.-- danntm _C 20:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
23. Support I don't know the user and I don't know about the roads issue, but the answers to the questions are promising, editor looks like a diligent worker, the other support comments are convicing, and I like the answer to my question. —Malber (talk • contribs) 20:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
24. Support per Radiant and Malber. —Mirlen 21:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
25. Support no evidence this nominee will abuse admin tools.--MONGO 22:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
26. Support. I'm perhaps a little disappointed not to find the "controversy" the nom predicted in his statement. Themindset 23:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
27. Support - we need more hands at CAT:CSD. JesseW, the juggling janitor 01:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
28. Support I opposed last time, and I'm proud to say I support now. Good guy, will make a great admin. Alphachimp 03:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
29. Support Go for it, why not? Charlie MacKenzie 08:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
30. Support I'm not sure where the potential controversy might stem from, as the candidate appears to be a very good user who has demonstrated that he can be trusted with the extra buttons hoopydink 10:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
31. Merovingian ※ Talk 23:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Strong oppose based on pushing to renew and continue debate in highway naming controversy far past the fruitfull point, even after agreement had been reached, on the Minnesota highways, for example, and "manufacturing controversy" in highway projects--as he admitted to. Jonathunder 16:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
2. Strong oppose. User has a habit of presenting flawed logic , realizing it's flawed, then continuing to defend it , exhibits a frighteningly parliamentarian approach to decision-making , personally attacks people he disagrees with , , defends his words by presenting a self-serving definition of "vandalism" , and other wiki-lawyering . Frequently assumes bad faith , puts words in others' mouths: "SPUI admits (through my interpretation) his moves are frivolous" manages to deliberately misinterpret the comments of his opponents, no matter how meticulously they are worded (in response to ), then flaunts it , becoming, he only person happy to be involved in WP:RFAR/HWY, . and perhaps even excited about its bureaucratic aspects. Acts unaware of the disambiguation pages SPUI and I had been creating to address his concerns long before they were even raised However, his very first edit was to the Route 27 disambiguation (now moved to List of highways numbered 27 ). What most puzzles me about this user is his 76th edit, 03:40, May 11, 2006 (→User:SPUI is at it again on Utah) , where he enters a discussion about SPUI's edits to Utah roads, saying "I've been nice to up until this point, but that's just moronic", however, Northenglish had no previous interaction with SPUI, let alone any that might provoke such exasperation and personal attackery. Sees himself qualified to describe Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-03-12 U.S. Roads as "controversial and protracted", though it occurred over a month before he joined Misplaced Pages on April 21, 2006. Furthermore I noticed that more than half of his edits have been in the last two weeks , and most of them were pursuant to the moving of pages that should have stayed where the hell they were. To make a long story short, I'm having a bloody difficult time finding any reasons to trust this user, perhaps he could help me out. —freak(talk) 18:37, Oct. 13, 2006 (UTC)

   Yes, I told SPUI to "grow up". And yes, it was uncivil, but would you really go as far to say that it was a personal attack? The "grow up" comment was brought up in my prior RfA, only two editors found it cause for concern, and one explicitly stated that it was not. No one is perfect, not even current administrators, for example this pithy comment. I told SPUI to grow up several months ago; since then I feel I have been much more civil.

   I most certainly was happy to participate in the Arbitration case. I saw it as the beginning of the end, and hoped it would bring us to the point where we could put the whole mess behind us. I was guilty of a fair bit of wiki-lawyering, as was everyone involved in the case. It's just the nature of such a process. Was I incorrect at times? Of course. No one can be right 100% of the time.

   If I can help you out further, feel free to let me know. -- NORTH 21:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

   I am withholding comment on this nomination, but I'd like to understand what was meant by "should have stayed where the hell they were" since under WP:SRNC#Administrator_judgment, which is binding on all state road projects per the outcome of the process that started with the arbitration case (despite your comment to "Oppose in the name of all that's fucking holy. —freak(talk) 19:05, Sep. 25, 2006 (UTC)"), NJ road articles were slated to be moved. Do you think he moved them incorrectly, that is, not in accourdance with the standard consensed on and dcoumented at the official style guide? I am aware that you are not happy with the outcome of this process. I'm not either, inasmuch as I wish it had never been necessary to not use consensus in some areas to get the mess to closure, but that in and of itself is not a reason to withhold support. There may be many other reasons, I'm only commenting on this one. ++Lar: t/c 21:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

   So we meet again. Consider that WP:SRNC is a word-for-word violation of Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not#Misplaced Pages is not a Democracy. Policy pages trump style guides and straw polls, and that poll had scarcely more than 50% support, so (unbelievably) you might be out-wonked here. I've read, top to bottom, the definition given at Misplaced Pages:Consensus, and this process fails it. Allowing it to be ratified and executed on numbers alone is negligence. Enforcing it as a binding fatwa is gross disservice. I have no aspiration of changing your perspectives on any issue. In the future, if I suspect you might be influenced by anything I'm about to say, it will be CC'd to your talk page. —freak(talk) 22:48, Oct. 13, 2006 (UTC)

3. Per Freakofnurture. I am very concerned with his claims of having been involved in all of this highway and SPUI stuff before any of his actual contributions show that he became involved. There are only two possible interpretations, and neither of them are good: either he isn't telling the truth, or he previously interacted with SPUI using a still-undisclosed "alternate account". --Cyde Weys 18:44, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

   See my response to Question 5 above. -- NORTH 21:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

4. "Out of retirement" oppose per freakofnurture. Admins should support consensus, not the imposition of a foolish consistency, even when other admins wrongly try to do just that. --SPUI (T - C) 23:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral until question 4 is answered. —Malber (talk • contribs) 14:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)