Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 23:45, 14 October 2006

1st Archive

Thank you amoruso-for contacting me about MA. I find it disgusting that people do not consider him an anti-semite-but since when have people cared about the jews. Thank you for contacting me. --Max 22:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Good Job

Keep up the good work in Lehi. The narrower your criteria for truth, the better the quality of the article will be. Just be careful and be curteous even to users that you do not agree with and take a break if its gets too tense. Also get an email address.

Regards,

Guy Montag 17:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

infrastructure

Hi amarouso, sorry to drop in uninvited. I changed the controversial thousands of buildings entry in the leb conflict section of the Israel page. The source you quoted said 6000 claims for damage, not 6000 buildings destroyed (the grauniad article I mean, the other source only deals with the human casualties) an insurance claim for damage could include a wrecked pool, a broken window or any other less serious incident. 950 Katushas may have been able to destroy thousands of buildings, i dont know, but if you provide a source that shows they did, please post it and change the article back. Boynamedsue 120604

Revisionist Zionism

Please see my recent comments at Talk:Revisionist Zionism. - Jmabel | Talk 22:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Lehi

It really is a fascinating group. Thanks for getting me interested. Derex 07:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

"Peaceful" was actually a quote from Uri Davis in a peer-reviewed scholarly journal. Now, I hope you'll be a little less smug and condescending in the future. And, that you will quit removing well-cited sources. But, I doubt it. I'll be watching; your attitude has ensured that. Derex 16:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't care who said it... you must grasp the issue of balances and not pushing one version over another. The article in question is articulate and complicated enough for you not to choose one random source and depict it as fact telling an incident. And your negative attitude is uncalled for, I don't know where your general animosity and belligerent approach comes from. It's a shame. Amoruso 16:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Samir Kuntar

no problem to add pro stuff. There's a section for it.. Amoruso 11:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I know it's tricky to find anything pro- on a person like this - well, tricky might be an understatement - but (and I know this sounds bad) just because he's a child killer and a terrorist, doesn't mean we shouldn't treat him fairly, surely? Tricky, as I know next to nothing about this man, but phrases like 'smashed in the 4 year old girls head' and the like don't really add anything to the article compared to something slightly more neutral, like 'bludgeoned the girl to death'. We can add the 'four-year-old' bit in earlier in the article. Also, why 'burst into', as opposed to 'entered' - did they burst into the building? Is that an opinion? Where do you draw the line between entering and bursting into? - and AFAIK 'suffocated to death' isn't grammaitcally correct! Finally, why did you remove 'by the Israeli authorities' from the phrase 'Kuntar was tried and convicted for the murders of Danny and Einat Haran by the Israeli authorities.'? HawkerTyphoon 12:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Could you reply to my talk page? thanks.

My friend . :

• Him being convicted by Israel can be added if you wish, but I think it's redundant as it's obvious who convicted him from the article. Authorities is what - police ? It's Israel's court of law (not military).

• As for suffocated to death, well, suffocated doesn't mean to death is it, so if it's not correct - suffocated and she died... something like that.

• burst into means they went in by force... they didn't just enter as the building was closed you know. They broke the door. This was used by kuntar himself, I saw in his site link in the external links. ((((I see you already changed it though now....which is a shame. I think "enter" implies walked in...}}}}

• as for the daughter's death description - I really think that it sounding horrible doesn't mean it's not WP:NPOV - Kuntar himself talked about the incident this way, he's the one in the interrogation that from his words the whole incident is made clear. I don't think we should omit details that aren't disputed by anyone, from the article. If someone would say that he didn't do it in this way, then it can be disputed, but his supporters don't dispute the event, just the cause or motive maybe, not the details of the killing which he recounted himself.

• it might sound a bit WP:POV, but it's one of these cases when it's impossible to treat it differently I think, since both sides acknowledge the facts for the full extent. Look at other articles here : - this is what child murderers in cold blood are described like.

Amoruso 12:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• I've removed thge Israel phrase totally, as it was a pro- section that didn't really need any anti-sentiments in it.

• As for suffocation, generally you can die of suffocation, but the phrase 'suffocated to death' sounds like 'drowned to death' - I'll try and rewrite this bit totally.

• As for entered/burst in, how about 'broke in' or 'entered by force' or something?

• The daughters death description is a tricky one. I feel it can be rewritten from a stand-off viewpoint, using more neutral words - we don't say things like 'obliterated' about 9/11, we say 'destroyed', even though no-one disputes that the buildings were obliterated.

• Some people would dispute that he murdered the child and parent, they might consider it part of a 'holy war' or the like, and that the deaths were unavoidable collateral damage. You can see the trouble with NPoVing an article like this, and I'd appreciate your help. HawkerTyphoon 12:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

E-mail

Well, if you set yourself up with an e-mail account, then I can e-mail you instead... Jayjg 22:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Any luck with that? Jayjg 15:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Borderline 3RR violation on Mount Hermon

I will not block you because I think this is due to mis-understanding of policy, but make sure this does not happen again. Even excluding your edit as an anon, when you made that edit just inserting "Israel" without re-inserting the category, you were still on the same POV side, and this is just ganging up against one user. Though there is nothing on the 3RR page about this, I consider this enough reason to block for its violation. I have fully protected that page until you, Viewfinder, Isarig, and anyone else who's involved, come to some agreement or compromise on what should be on that page or at least come to some state where you can agree to stop edit warring. In his email to me Viewfinder has expressed that he is considering applying for mediation on this matter, I think this might be a good idea (have a read of Misplaced Pages:Dispute Resolution if you are unfamiliar with methods to resolve disputes). Please note that even though the page is protected in the state you left it, this is not an endorsion of your version, and unless you reach some agreement there is 0 guarantee that it will not escalate into another edit war once it's unprotected.--Konstable 06:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

licence

Hello Amoruso. Could you tell me under what licence is the image in the wp:en ? . Thank you in advance ! Alithien 22:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

"This is a picture that's originated in the knesset website. The evaluation is that one can use it in the article that deals with the parliament member in it and only in it under the fair use terms"

Amoruso 23:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help ! If you see a picture of Ben Gurion that is free, please don't hesitate to tell me ! Alithien 08:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Interesting balance

I find it interesting that you remove the word "terrorist" about Lehi murders, in the interest of "balance" and NPOV. Yet you then replace the word "gunmen" with "terrorist" to describe Palestinian murders. You also seem to believe that only Palestinians are capable of "massacres", while Israeli groups engage only in "battles". This selective language, depending on who is doing the murdering, leads me to question whether you are truly interested in promoting neutrality and balance. Or are you perhaps here trying to promote a particular point of view? Andalusian1 23:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The answer is quite simple. A terrorist is like a murderer a person who killed someone innocent. That's why I have no problem to call Jews that murdered civilians terrorists (in fact, I considered it in the past and later even tried to insert the terrorists into some of these entries so your accusation of bias is out of place and wrong). But Lehi like PLO in general is a political organization, so it can either be a designated terrorist organization or militant/etc. However a person who kills a baby or children in school, the actual one that shoots that is, in cold blood can be called a terrorist I'm sure you understand the difference. Amoruso 00:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I see we agree; killing innocent children is terrorism. I assume we also agree with that sentiment, whether the murder is from reckless indifference or from cold-blooded intent. You deleted the following sourced quote from a Jewish Israeli scholar "they murdered over 200 people, half of whom were women and children". Moreover, is Count Bernadotte guilty of something, or was his murder not terrorism? That was planned and executed by Lehi leadership. If that isn't terrorism, is it even _possible_ to have a "terrorist" group, because one can always simply state that a particular member was the terrorist? At any rate, you certainly didn't take any effort to describe the individual Lehi gunmen as terrorists.

Bottom line your claims to be of superior balance and neutrality have little credibility. That's because your editing changes when the names of the subject change.

A final word on our point of agreement, that murdering children is terrorism (whether through depraved & reckless indifference or direct intent): "A third of casualties in Lebanon are children, says UN relief chief". Andalusian1 20:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad we agree. I didn't delete anything, I just replaced it with material from the article which is more established and researched. The thing is the allegations of murders of children in Deir Yassin are BS, it never happened. And the sources in the article depict that myth very well. Of course if there was a Lehi member specifically who killed an innocent child then he would be a terrorist - he himself, no doubt. As for Bernadotte, he was a British representive. I specifically, perhaps you missed it, underline that politicans/soldiers and anyone in office of some colonial power is a legitimate target, he's not a civilian. And about a terorrist group, indeed nobody calls anyone a terrorist group in wikipedia. Your last note is ridicilious since children aren't supposed to be where armed men are in battles according to the geneva convention. A state that defends itself and targets those military targets might hurt those civilians used as human shields but it did not target them, I'm sure you can understand the difference. A final note - times have changed through the years. Britian bombed civilian areas killing 10000's of civilians in WW 2 and also bombing children hospitals in occupied Denmark and other countries. That's no longer justified and acceptable, and terorrism is also much more frowned upon. This is just a historical note since international law has indeed developed. I'm sure you can see the difference between actions taken during the time of WW2 against the British who were here on a temporary mandte and between attacking civilians of a 58 years old country. You can twist it around but you can't around that the British weren't civilians in the area. But a person who murderes a 4 year old kid in cold blood, admits it, and mind you he came from some other country, went into an apartment, broke in, took the kid and smashed her head on a rock - that particular person can be called a terrorist, yes. Oh and one final note, a legal note. "reckless indiffrence" if something really is that - it's still not murder. Murder requires intent and not just intent but premedidated intent, and not just that, but also not under influence of momentary rage for instance - that's a doctrine in itself and so on. It's a specific charge. I'm more familiar with the hebrew terms, but there is man slaughter, negligent killing and levels. This is just to correct your defitinition mistake so you know. So whatever your political or moral position is, you can not ignore a difference between a premedidated killing of a child and a collateral damage from a bomb shell for instance. Amoruso 22:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

A rose is a rose. Dead is dead. Immoral is immoral. Terrorism is terrorism. You can't make it pretty no matter what you call it and no matter who is responsible. But you can make Misplaced Pages POV. If you have the same principles, regardless of the names, then editing differences are good faith. The evidence I've seen is to the contrary for you. I'll leave it at that. Andalusian1 22:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

What's bothering you is what one can see in the discussion of the palestinian political violence. A user, Jayjg responded there very well. You need to understand that there can be actually a differnece. The fact that these specific palestinians are terrorists doesn't mean that Jews and Israel have to be autuomatically are to maintain some fake NPOV. Same thing with Al Qaida and U.S.A for example - it doesn't have to be that way just because "the world is always balanced and everything is the same". No - dead is not dead, terrorism is not terrorism. The job of people who take things seriously enough is to look at who's the culprit and to define acts in as much accuracy as possible and point out to the differences when and if they exist. They don't always exist. Certainly one side wasn't always an angel. The Kfar Kasem massacre for instance was horrible and unjustified and done by Israeli in the 1950's and the court punished them for it. Same with Americans and certain massacres in vietnam , iraq and so on. But one can't just say that every thing Israel does equals what hamas do just for the sake of npov, no matter how it can be annoyed for those politicall supportive for the palestinians for instance. Just as one can safely side that was the nazis did was evil and without precedent, and it won't be pov. not every murder, killing, not even genocide is the same - there are details, motives, ideology, factors, considerations, perspectives, timeline, and many things. Amoruso 22:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to get involved in the details of this debate, but I just want to point out that both of you are using the term "terrorist" much more loosely than is generally accepted. Killing civilians is of course murder (as is killing any human being), but there has to be a specific kind of motivation behind that murder for it to be called terrorism. For the sake of accuracy in your edits, it should be noted that accidental civilian deaths in open warfare isn't terrorism (from a NPOV perspective). Markovich292 01:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

חברון

I understand. However, we must keep in mind that all these people played a part in the history of one city: Hebron. As divided these people may be, keep in mind that Shmulevich is not famous for being Jewish, and al-Manasra is not famous for being Arab. These people are known for what they did, what they contributed to this world. That's why List of famous people raised in Houston, for example, categorizes by occupation, not by ethnicity. —Khoikhoi 04:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Please

---> my comment:(the Markovich complaining his harrassment being removed issue Amoruso 15:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC) )

Do not remove warnings like you did here. The concerns of Markovich292 are perfectly legitimate. Discuss it with him before removing his comments. Otherwise, what you did comes off as incivil. Woohookitty 12:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed what was legitimate to remove after uncivil and bad faith behaviour including lies from him. He removed my comments as well. Amoruso 14:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no WP rule that all warnings must be retained. A user is certainly not obliged to keep a "warning" from a nonadmin that is not in good faith and is trolling. However, if it is later found to have merit and to have been made in good faith, it can be held against one. You can't, for example, engage in a 3RR and then remove a 3RR warning as "trolling." But very often users charge "harassment" and the like to intimidate other users.--Mantanmoreland 15:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

(markovich's comments and further discussion removed per policy). Amoruso 02:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Proving the negative

Hey just wanted to let you know that I've responded in my talk page. Let's discuss it there.UberCryxic 17:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Neo-Fascism

Take a look at Neo-Fascism and at the POV edits that Will314159 has been making there Isarig 04:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Please take a look at Neo-Fascism and at the reversions edits that Isarig has been making there . I know that you can be fair. Best Wishes Will314159 18:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Something to Consider

I once saw an episode of a television show called "Becker" that really is worth mentioning to you. Just wondering, have you watched this show? Anyway, in this episode, Dr. Becker was accused by a writer of making racist comments. When confronted about it, it was revealed that it was the writer who was at fault for assigning racial overtones to an ordinary conversation. On thing in particular involved Becker's use of the phrase "those people that grill on the sidewalk." The writer assumed that Becker was talking about Puerto Rican's because he knew it was mostly Puerto Ricans that do that (in the show). He just ignored that Becker was refering only to people that grill on the sidewalk (because it gets in the way he says), and not Puerto Ricans.

Hopefully that illustrates the situation. I made a comment directed at all the people that were not dealing with the issue and making personal remarks/arguments/attacks instead. ThuranX saw something that was not there, and both you and he will not recognize that he was wrong. You both are in the position of the writer, and the only decent thing you can do is let go of your false assumption and drop the attitude you have because of it. Markovich292 05:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Is Dr. Becker the show with that guy from "Cheers"? Amoruso 06:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed...never seen Cheers myself though. Markovich292 16:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Smile

Shamir1 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

--Shamir1 06:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

From Scott Adler

I wonder why there is no "Siege of Jerusalem (1948)" article. Was it removed? Or never written. My view is that it was at Jerusalem that the Arab pleading collapses. Jerusalem was not to be included in the Jewish state, so why besiege it? Unless you are the aggressor, that is... Scott Adler 10:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Just a thought.

Good question, I don't know. I suppose it wasn't written. You can expand it and of course make it also a whole article in itself. Amoruso 10:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Population of Ashdod

Can you please provide a source for the number you inserted as the population of Ashdod? If you are sourcing their official website, then the number is probably an unreliable estimate. -- Ynhockey 11:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

these are the new israeli statistics : Amoruso 11:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC) and already used in hebrew wikipedia.

The article you linked to seems to be based on CBS data, which does list Ashdod as having over 200,000 residents in 2005 as provisional data.

This however is still slightly above 200,000 and not the 212,500 figure you posted. The Hebrew Misplaced Pages is almost always wrong on these issues because they quote the city websites which always exaggerate figures. A while ago I found out that they exaggerated the population of Eilat by over 20% (at over 57,000, while the real population is about 45,000) and brought it up in talk and they corrected it. So unless there's a better source than CBS, we should use their statistics alone. On a side note, I'm confused as to why CBS lists 2005 statistics as provisional data and 2004 statistics as normal data, considering the last census was in 1995 and all population data since then has been provisional.

-- Ynhockey 20:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the explanations. And sorry for writing a non accurate figure. Amoruso 20:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I haven't see there any city population numbers, only the dencity. As ashdodian I'm very intrested in this statistic, so were is this number from? Shmuliko 13:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The news articles on various news sites says the denisty and that the population passed 200,000. I looked at hebrew wikipedia, saw that it says this number and assmued they looked at the latest one that the article referrs to. Amoruso 13:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, about your message - I dont recall having seen this, Ill go check it out. Maybe you clicked my talk page by mistake? Stick to the Facts 20:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I gotcha - I hadn't seen the new edits, only the revert by Brimba.

They will never go for any statement that characterizes posts, even if it pertains to a quality shared by the vast majority of posters or threads. I've tried before. This is why it is a matter of time before another edit war and probably why the thread should be scrapped.

I'm not sure if you saw the lengthy debate about the genocide reference. I demonstrated that since genocide includes 'merely' trying to force the expatriation of a people through mental anguish, and is not limited to mass murder, that pretty much the WHOLE SITE is a big genocide fest. I asked for, and was not presented with, one single means of achieving a 'white nation' that didn't involve genocide within the legal definition of the word - they did not or could not produce one. Stick to the Facts 20:47, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, but my point is that until the sock puppets are banned you won't be able to make it stick. They'll keep yanking it back out. But you have as much right as anyone to your opinion so I don't see why you shouldn't make the change if you think it is appropriate. Stick to the Facts 21:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

NAS People

Whoa! Fraid I'm not with you on this brother. Two thoughts: first the name is ambiguous ("new people" or "new anti-semitism") but most importantly I don't agree with yr comment that this is in any way a compromise. None needed. MA is anti-Semitic by any measure, and not just an anti-semitic from the standpoint of "new" antisemitism. Jes my humble opinion but I think this might be construed as weakening the case for including him in the antisemitism cat as he richly deserves.--Mantanmoreland 01:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm I tried to go to the link you sent but it didn't work - neither did it work when I typed it in nor when I clicked on another link for it. Is it already deleted? I saw the deletion category entry tho. Stick to the Facts 02:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

As for the category being protected, that is not an endorsement of the current version. That measure was just taken in order to prevent edit warring. I think that using the NAS category as you're suggesting does not help matters and also is not likely to be accepted as a compromise by those unwilling to see MA as antisemitic. --Mantanmoreland 02:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

West Bank

I was wondering if you can help me out with the West Bank. There were possible reasons provided in the article, and then a user deleted them. I then completed it, had it better written, and added it again, adding some of the sources on the Talk page. THEY STILL DELETE IT. You can see the section I added when you click history, I am sure you can see it is all true! --Shamir1 02:53, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Use article talk pages

Hi Amoruso, would you please use the article talk page for People's Mujahedin of Iran rather than engage in an edit war. I recently cleaned up the article and put amore than a little work into making sure everything I did was factual well referenced. If you persist in removing factual information because it does not suit your POV I will feel obliged to get an admin involved. Feel free to discuss the ussie in the article talk space, but pleas refrain from deleting factual information without talking about it first. --Dave 05:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

the article was in violation of wikipedia policy. You can't say an organization is terrorist, only that's it's called / designated as such. any adminstrator will tell you the same. Amoruso 05:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Lehi

Hello Amoruso. I saw you read French. You can maybe get some more information about Lehi on the wp:fr article : fr:Lehi. The article should soon be categorised "featured article" (article de qualité). His author is fr:user:Christophe cagé. He should be able to help you (nb: he speaks English - French but not Hebrew). Chavoua Tov, Alithien 17:25, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Citing sources

Hi Amoruso. You don't seem to quite understand the full implications of WP:CITE. I suggest you read it through thoroughly. If you are making a claim, you need to cite a source that backs up that claim, e.g. for the claim that Mark Twain has been taken as the primary source for Ottoman Palestinian demography you will need to find a reliable source that says that, not just sources that quote him about Palestinian demography or sources that say that he has been quoted about it. Similarly, if you wish to imply that the reason Abu Ali Mustafa was killed was related to any particular government's claims that the PFLP was a terrorist organization, or to Israeli claims that he was responsible for killings, you will have to find a reliable source to that effect. You can't just include information without a source, even if you are sure it is true - after all, you might be wrong! Palmiro | Talk 01:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

No reason to include a citation for mark twain being used by various scholars simply one can see all the scholars who quoted him. You misunderstand the idea of WP:CITE and I suggest you brush op on it. As for Abu Ali Mustafa, there is no OR there - you have vandalised the page by deleting sourced material concerning the designation of the organization. Please don't do that. Amoruso 01:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey

Hello friend. I thought you might be interested in my rebuttal to A student in history's comments in the talk page Timeline of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have long been trying to protect the article from bias and misinformation. My comments do not make a difference to anything, I just thought you might like to read the last couple of responses (primarily the last/most recent). Thanks. --Shamir1 01:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Notice

Your vandalism at Folke Bernadotte is the last straw. I'm out of town at the moment but when I get back I'll be presenting a case to the Arbitration Committee to get you banned. I should have done that months ago but I foolishly hoped you might improve. --Zero 03:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Your threats are out of line and your abuse of power and false allegations are simply outrageous. The person who blanked material on the page is you. Your attempt to make content disuptes into something else is extreme bad faith and you should be banned for that behaviour. Amoruso 04:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Abu Ali Mustafa

Hi Cousin, Please fill in the comment field in you edits. Just adding the letter "m" is not always very iluminating. Todah Abu ali 13:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

m is for minor changes - spelling mistakes, spacing, you mean? Amoruso 13:49, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

1929 Hebron Massacre

Please give your thoughts on the relevance (or lack thereof) of anti-Zionist offered by a survivor of the 1929 Hebron Massacre. Thanks.--Meshulam 19:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

address

Of course I have an e-mail, tell me if you would like it. By the way, I wanted to thank you for effort on Misplaced Pages. I don't feel I have repaid you. Please let me know of anything. --Shamir1 03:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, to be honest, I don't know how to e-mail you. --Shamir1 04:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Stateless people

Why is English people not tagged in Category:Stateless people? England is not independent either. — Wereon 10:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

There is a reply on my talk page. I think you should clarify exactly what is meant by "stateless people". To my mind, the canonical example is of course the Jews before the creation of Israel. But Corsica and Catalan people? The people have a separate ethnic identity, but they are also concentrated in one place, and have some local autonomy.

Also, do not forget that you must tag every single native or aboriginal people in existence. — Wereon 10:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The idea is not they don't have a citizenship at all, but that they as a people don't have a state of their own. This is true for them and for Welsh as well. Amoruso 10:56, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

You are quite right, Welsh people, Scottish people and English people are all stateless nations. There is some misunderstanding here, they are stateless in that they have no nation-state of their own. In this respect they are all just as stateless a Kurdish people, after all Kurdish people have citizenship in many states, one might argue that these are their states, but it is normal to consider stateless nations as nations that lack a nation-state of their own. I fail to see why it should be contentious to include them in this category. A stateless person is a person that lacks any nationality or state. Alun 13:26, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Stormfront

Amoruso-- let's not delete those "Citation needed" sentences just yet. Having them in the article is a good way to get eyeballs on the problem and to solicit the people who are knowledgable into adding a citation. But, I'm 100% in agreement with you that the sentences will have to come out if no citation is produced. --Alecmconroy 11:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Timeline

I have violated nothing, and if you claim I'm guilty of the 3RR rule, then go ahead and accuse Shamir1 of this as well. You continue to claim that I remove "factual" and pertinent information, but this is simply not true. I am removing the POV's that you and Shamir1 insist on writting. It is clear from both of your comments, and you user pages that you are not neutral and you don't wish to conform to neutrality on this issue. You both insist on knowing some "truth", (that being a pro-Israeli interpretation of events) and you insist on writting this in. If what you say are "facts" really are "facts", then provide some sources for them, credible sources, primary ones if you can.A student of history 05:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

You have revereted 4 times in less than 24 H. Shamir didn't. It is a violation of WP:3RR . Amoruso 05:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

You are being absolutely absurd, you insist that removing propoganda and unsourced POV's is "vandalism". You are editting this timeline in blatant violation of wikipedia's NPOV policy. I am simply removing unsourced, uncredible, POV's that are destroying this timeline. A student of history

Your "false" reasoning is irrelevant. You're not allowed to violate 3RR no matter what. Amoruso 05:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Please refrain

from PA. If you look at my contributions, you will see that I have worked/am working extensively on depopulated 1948 villages. And it is most certainly *not* a "spam" link: how on earth can a link that only link to one specific article be spam? Regards, Huldra 05:46, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

link provided was a derogatory non WP:RS on a geographical non poltical article. Amoruso 05:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

You must be joking: similar links are accepted all other places that are on the List of villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. As for WP:RS; I would say it is certainly not more unreliable than, say, CAMERA or MEMRI or PalestineFacts -links; do you want them removed everywhere, too? ´Couse they will be, if this link is not allowed to stand. Regards, Huldra 06:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Please don't WP:POINT Amoruso 06:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

No, Amoruso, this is not WP:POINT, this is an attempt (yes!) at WP:NPOV. You really cannot have literally hundreds of links to sites that are ...what shall I say ...somewhat "tilted" in a pro-Israeli direction, and not accept any that are ..eh... ...somewhat "tilted" in an anti-Israeli direction, too. I hope that that is not your idea of fairness: to only have the first type of links, and not the second. (And I assume you are interested in fairness ;-) ) Regards, Huldra 06:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

PS: ..and I have no problems with your expansion ;-)

Yes, but if you went around and took off links because a link was taken off it would be WP:POINT. Anyway, if you want the link , I have no problem with it. But it's obviously biased and quite extreme in its use of words, and it doesn't seem the right place. Amoruso 06:33, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

That it is biased ...eh.."tilted", sure, but that it is in the wrong place: I disagree. The link is about this specific place, after all. Also: I´m thinking of adding (under "See also") Operation Kedem ...it was through that article I "found" Manahat. The Operation Kedem article gives (some of) the specific history of the place in 1948, which the Manahat article now does not give. Regards, Huldra 06:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

צ'רקסים

Hi Amoruso, perhaps you could help me with something. Since August, an anon in Damascus has been deleting paragraphs about the Circassians in Israel. I'm guessing it's because he/she sees the Golan Heights (where Israeli Circassians live) as a part of Syria. Regardless, I was wondering if you could add some sources to the statements in the paragraphs the anon keeps deleting. Perhaps that might get him to stop. I haven't been able to talk to this person as they're on a dynamic IP. Thanks in advance. —Khoikhoi 01:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I see what you mean, I'll try to help. Amoruso 19:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. —Khoikhoi 01:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Because simply adding the tag isn't going to protect the page (he can still edit the page). You need an admin to do it. —Khoikhoi 00:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! :-) —Khoikhoi 00:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

deletion of editing tags

Don't delete editing tags that other editors have placed on an article until those concerns are fixed. DesertSky85451 22:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

the specifc tag says it can be deleted. Amoruso 22:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it can be. However, deleting the tag is not a very convincing argument the song is notable. And the article is still linkless. DesertSky85451 22:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I specified in talk. This article was just created, you could have waited too. This is a really really defining song in Israel. Amoruso 22:45, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

\ I've removed my deletion nomination. Also, replying on your own talk page is really useless for me to see if you've replied. DesertSky85451 23:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

as you can see above, if you want me to reply to your page, just ask (politely :) ). You really shouldn't nominate articles so quickly. Amoruso 23:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Did my cursing on your talk page offend you? Oh No!! DesertSky85451 23:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

No it didn't. Btw, how do we know how many articles link to each article ? Amoruso 23:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Left side > below the search window > Toolbox > What links here DesertSky85451 23:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Amoruso 23:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Beer and breweries in Israel

is a perfectly valid category. Pavel Vozenilek 02:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

indeed it is. Amoruso 02:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Fisk support for statement

Here it is on google books: page 126 of Pity the Nation. I'm reverting that part of your edit -- Kendrick7 01:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

It is the last sentence of the third complete paragraph -- Kendrick7 01:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I guess that isn't a permalink -- try "the first link here". -- Kendrick7 06:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I'm not exactly sure how you can accuse the reference of not supporting the sentence, unless you have a copy of the reference to begin with? You really shouldn't need the google book link, right? -- Kendrick7 07:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I guess I'm not surprised you don't remember one sentence out of a 727 page book you once read. Sorry if the links I've provided don't work, but should you get the chance to someday view the last sentence of the third paragraph of page 126 of the 2002 paperback English edition of "Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon" by Robert Fisk, I promise that you will find it reads "The casualties were thus almost all civilians." -- Kendrick7 08:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict

Siniora's position is relayed in the section on "Position of Lebanon," though if the new speech has a significant statement, you should include it. His crying doesn't convey a specific idea, and it is only original research to assign words to it. In any event, whatever he said before/during/after crying is far more enlightening vis-a-vis his position than mentioning his tears. As for the stones, if the event was an attack on IDF vehicles, then you should say so, though the citation you provided doesn't make mention of IDF forces in the area. I incorporated the point about HEzbollah's rejectionism in a smoother manner; a link to the detailed and established subsection in the main Hezbollah article is much more effective than citing an individual piece. In general, WP:WTA says that we shouldn't use words like terrorist, as they are poorly defined and fraught with potential POV issues. Cheers, Tewfik 05:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Renaming Saintly person categories

Hi Amoruso: See Category:Saintly person tombs in Israel; Category:Saintly person tombs by country, and Category:Saintly person tombs in Iraq which have been nominated for renaming. It will help to clarify the categories. Thank you. IZAK 10:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I appreciate your support

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Hi there

Just want to commend for your good work and contributions. keep it up. see you. --Sm8900 02:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi...thanks for your reply. guess I feel that no barnstar could ever measure up to the good old Jewish Star! :-) See you. --Sm8900 03:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

MA, Markovitch, and Hatzne'ah Leches

Amaruso, regardless of your opinion as to Markovitch's edits/opinions/etc. and his of yours it would likely be better overall if the both of you were able to focus more on content and edits than the person themselves. If you believe he has stated something that is inaccurate, in general, it is better to point out the edit and ask for clarification than to label him a prevaricator. WP:AGF is an important part of wikipedia, and one that should be followed until there is near certainty that edits are being made in bad faith. Thanks. -- Avi 13:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit to The Third Temple

The information you cited involves a synagogue on the Temple Mount. A claim that it relates to a Third Temple would appear to be Original Research. He may have it in mind, but the link needs to be explicit, and reliably sourced, to be included. If you have a reliable source indicating the proposal is a precursor to a Third Temple etc., please summarize and cite it. It's clearly relevant to the Temple Mount article, what I'm questioning is its relevance to the Third Temple article. Thanks, --Shirahadasha 15:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Clearly relevant to Temple Mount, but doesn't seem to be relevant to Third Temple unless an external source makes a connection. Best, --Shirahadasha 20:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Adolf Eichmann

Just a quick word -- Keltik is looking for reaction on the page. I'm not saying don't respond, because it is hard not to, but if you kick up the rhetoric he will too, and we actually lose, spending time dueling when it would be better spent on making improvements to articles. Cantankrus 19:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi,

Thanks for the bat, you're pretty cool yourself... :-)

(Oh, and you forgot to list my name on the award page...)

okedem 22:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Israel

Hi,

You reverted an edit by User:Jpgordon, calling it "apparent vandalism". This user is an administrator, and one of the "good guys", definitely not a vandal.

My suggestion is - let's finish the argument in the talk page before making any more changes. okedem 15:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

In answer to your question:

You ask why I am so interested in the Arab Israeli conflict.

Well I have always been very interested in Israel and have always had Jewish friends (have never visited Israel though). I consider myself a friend of Israel and even though I recognize the intrinsic unfairness to the Arabs I have always supported the right of Israel to exist in this region and of Jews to live in peace and security there. But when I started reading Israel related pages in Misplaced Pages I found them not to be neutral.

Israelis do not live in peace and security 60 years after the creation of Israel. Why is that? Surely there are many reasons and I think both sides of the conflict make their best to polarize matters and to demonize the other side. Indeed an important reason (I believe) is the deafening propaganda that obscures the issues. It does not help peace when the truth is not known and when both sides of the conflict honestly believe in their respective nationalist mythologies. So I thought I could help peace if I worked towards more neutral articles in Misplaced Pages. I am a religious person and really believe that peace is what God wants too. I also really believe that this continuous conflict does not serve Israel's interests. There is no doubt that Israelis (not to mention Palestinians) would have a much better quality of life if this conflict were over. What's happening is stupid; there must be a better way. Incidentally, have you ever considered that maybe this continuous war-like situation is making the Israeli military a self-perpetuating institution? That the military service in the occupied territories is not really what's best for the soul and character of young Israelis?

Well, that's about it. As you can see I never answer a question with two sentences when I can come up with twenty :-( Dianelos 08:40, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Amoruso, if you think BEFORE, BEFORE you will go back to Adam and Eve :-) What we need here is to think about the future. As a really great Jew said long ago, God wants us to forgive others. I know that keeping a grudge is part of Middle Eastern culture (and Greeks are very close to that culture), but to achieve peace one must transcend that. I agree with you of course that the point is not to achieve any peace but a long term solution.

BTW thanks for inviting me to explain my idea in my talk page, I was itching to do that. I just posted it there. I am really curious what you think about it. Has such an idea been considered before? Dianelos 10:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I just answered your comments in my talk page. Dianelos 15:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Again I answered your comments in my talk page. Cheers. Dianelos 09:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

your page

I just want to say I like your page and I appreciate your comments on Jerusalem and such. Keep fighting the good fight. Chag Sameach. Valley2city 19:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

good job

WP:POINT

Please do not disrupt wikipedia to illustrate a point. I am not exactly sure what the problem is but I presume it has something to do with "Palestine". --Cat out 22:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

it's not WP:POINT, it's WP:NPOV. Iraqi Kurdistan is too an autonomy. Amoruso 22:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Iraqi Kurdistan does not claim to be an independent country now do they? I can list several hundered autonomous regions in europe and amercias alone. We only list countries (defacto or not) in nav templates.

--Cat out 23:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

3RR claim

Those were my first edits to the article in over 6 months so I haven't really violated anything. Please discuss your objections on the talkpage. Yuber 23:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

What other additions have I made in the past? Prove it if you wish but I'd rather have you discuss your objections in the talkpage instead of going about this in a warlike fashion.Yuber 23:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

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