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The gallery is too big. A lot of the images are not that good either. I suggest we either get rid of it completely, that away stop the arguments between people who think their images are better, or else reduce it to no more than 12 very good images. What do people think? --] 13:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC) The gallery is too big. A lot of the images are not that good either. I suggest we either get rid of it completely, that away stop the arguments between people who think their images are better, or else reduce it to no more than 12 very good images. What do people think? --] 13:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)



1. It is amazing that Turkey is allowed to be silent on it's Nazi past and even today to avoid acceptance of the huge genocide commited. 2. It is shame on Europe to allow this to continue and even more to consider this country as potential member state. 3. It is discusting to read how some people (mostly Americans) try not to anoy beast saying that something might anoy Armenians

WE ARE TALKING ON REAL GENOCIDE. WE ARE TALKING ON MASS DEPORTATION, VERY PLANNED KILLING OF MORE THEN A MILION PEOPLE AND WE ARE TALKING WITH MANNERS??!!

History is not supposed to be "negotiated"

Turkey is country of multiple genocides and one of them is done in this pages: a.) Armenian b.) Kurdish c.) Greek d.) Serbian e.) Bulgarian

and many more...

But most of anything it was Armenian. It was planned AND governed by the state, conducted by the state in the same, completely the same manner as one done in 1940's in Germany. Seams that Hitler had tutor in what happened in 1915.

And everyone is silent.

Americans know about this very well. Their president and senators were louder on this. But for the sake of being hypocrits we will stay "SOFT".

Why?

TO UNDERSTAND TURKISH JUSTICE WAIT AND SEE. THIS WILL BE DELETED IN FEW MINUTES

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checkY Sweden, formally the Kingdom of Sweden, is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.
☒N Sweden,(Swedish: Sverige ) formally the Kingdom of Sweden,(Swedish: Konungariket Sverige ) is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.

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checkY A developed country, Canada has a high nominal per capita income globally and its advanced economy ranks among the largest in the world, relying chiefly upon its abundant natural resources and well-developed international trade networks. Recognized as a middle power, Canada's strong support for multilateralism and internationalism has been closely related to its foreign relations policies of peacekeeping and aid for developing countries. Canada is part of multiple international organizations and forums.
☒N A highly developed country, Canada has the seventeenth-highest nominal per-capita income globally and the sixteenth-highest ranking in the Human Development Index. Its advanced economy is the tenth-largest in the world and the 14th for military expenditure by country, Canada is part of several major international institutions including the United Nations, NATO, the G7, the Group of Ten, the G20, the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement, the Commonwealth of Nations, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, and the Organization of American States.

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Although the table can be moved out to the template namespace (to e.g. ]) and thus easen the look of the edit page, most Wikipedians still disapprove as of now, see the talk page.

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Comparison table of section sizes in country articles as a percentage of article size. Click image for latest data.

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  • Australia = Prose size (text only): 60 kB (9,304 words) "readable prose size"
  • Bulgaria = Prose size (text only): 56 kB (8,847 words) "readable prose size"
  • Canada = Prose size (text only): 67 kB (9,834 words) "readable prose size"
  • Germany = Prose size (text only): 54 kB (8,456 words) "readable prose size"
  • Japan = Prose size (text only): 51 kB (8,104 words) "readable prose size"
  • East Timor = Prose size (text only): 53 kB (8,152 words) "readable prose size"
  • Malaysia = Prose size (text only): 57 kB (9,092 words) "readable prose size"
  • New Zealand = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,761 words) "readable prose size"
  • Philippines = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,178 words) "readable prose size"
Hatnote

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checkY== Economy ==

Main article: Economy of Canada

☒N== Economy ==

Main article: Economy of Canada

See also: Petroleum industry in Canada and Agriculture in Canada

Further information: Economic history of Canada and Early Canadian banking system

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Shortcut

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This section is transcluded from Help:Transclusion. (edit | history) Shortcut Further information: Misplaced Pages:Transclusion costs and benefits

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Notes

  1. Swedish: Sverige ; Finnish: Ruotsi; Meänkieli: Ruotti; Northern Sami: Ruoŧŧa; Lule Sami: Svierik; Pite Sami: Sverji; Ume Sami: Sverje; Southern Sami: Sveerje or Svöörje; Yiddish: שוועדן, romanizedShvedn; Scandoromani: Svedikko; Kalo Finnish Romani: Sveittiko.
  2. Swedish: Konungariket Sverige

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Comment

Hectorian, your indiscriminate reversal vandalised the opening statement changes. Also, if you would like to direct the reader to the detailed article you can put a reference link rather than reversal. Thank you for your future avoidance of belligerent disrespect (I know it will be hard for you)

Survey on Religions

Does anyone have access to a recent survey on the religions of people in Turkey? I think that we will definitely need it at some point.. Baristarim 01:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Successor State

I had to put this back since some anon unilaterally deleted some parts of the article by referring to other editors as kids.. See article successor state...


1. It is amazing that Turkey is allowed to be silent on it's Nazi past and even today to avoid acceptance of the huge genocide commited. 2. It is shame on Europe to allow this to continue and even more to consider this country as potential member state. 3. It is discusting to read how some people (mostly Americans) try not to anoy beast saying that something might anoy Armenians

WE ARE TALKING ON REAL GENOCIDE. WE ARE TALKING ON MASS DEPORTATION, VERY PLANNED KILLING OF MORE THEN A MILION PEOPLE AND WE ARE TALKING WITH MANNERS??!!

History is not supposed to be "negotiated"

Turkey is country of multiple genocides and one of them is done in this pages: a.) Armenian b.) Kurdish c.) Greek d.) Serbian e.) Bulgarian

and many more...

But most of anything it was Armenian. It was planned AND governed by the state, conducted by the state in the same, completely the same manner as one done in 1940's in Germany. Seams that Hitler had tutor in what happened in 1915.

And everyone is silent.

Americans know about this very well. Their president and senators were louder on this. But for the sake of being hypocrits we will stay "SOFT".

Why?

TO UNDERSTAND TURKISH JUSTICE WAIT AND SEE. THIS WILL BE DELETED IN FEW MINUTES


I made an edit saying that the Treaty of Lausanne confirmed the Republic of Turkey as the successor state of the Ottoman empire, and somebody deleted it.. To avoid this delete in the future, couple of words as to why it was made: it is only a legal and technical information, it doesn't imply any political or ideological message. The Russian Federation is the successor state of the USSR, but their ideological systems are completely different.. For people who know Turkey this might be evident, but for complete strangers making research on the Net about Turkey and that don't know its history, it could be intresting to know.. Successor state just means that the new state assumed the debts, properties (such as embassies), archives etc of the old one.. That's it.. The fact that there was a revolution doesn't mean anything, the USSR was the successor state of the Russian Empire, even though there was a much more profound revolution.. The UN, Treaty of Lausanne, the global academic community, Turkish people and Turkish government know this, it is hardly a secret or anything :)), in any case there is absolutely no-one anywhere that disputes the fact that Turkey was the successor state (legally). The article is about the Republic of Turkey and not the Empire, but this info is extremely relevant as to how Turkey was founded (contrary to other states that were a part of the Ottoman Empire who are considered as new states that are supposed to have declared their independence from the Empire and confirmed as such by treaties, legally speaking). Syria, Greece, Lebanon were not the successor states of the OE, Turkey was.. That's all... Regards Baristarim 23:51, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Those of you support Turkey's accesion to EU

Those of you support Turkey's accesion to EU you can put this template to your user pages. Template:User Turkey and EU and please help to create a category for this. CrashMex 21:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Shamefull pro-Turkish bias

A detailled study of the history of this page and a few subpages shows that several fiercely pro-Turkish contributors frequently delete any critical information, even when backed up with sources and references.

I agree. No mention of the million armenian deaths, whether holocaust or victims of a rare hunger that only affected armenians. Oh! By the way, the Rwandan Holocaust was not because it wasnt organized or carried out by the government, it just stood still whilst the Interhamwe did the job.88.16.44.192 23:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

cuisine

I changed the cuisine bit to remove the weasely "is one of the world's most famous". See Misplaced Pages:Avoid_weasel_words. I apologise to the die-hard nationalist chefs out there, but this sounded like the intro to a turkish cookery book. yandman 17:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Cousine

  • No need to see any Turkish cookery book, See your cookery book(I mean Greek).
  • Please clear following funny phrases in Greece article in the same manner;
:"Regarded as the cradle of western civilization and being the birthplace of democracy, Western philosophy, the Olympic Games, western literature, political science, major scientific principles as well as drama including both tragedy and comedy,"
:"Greece has a particularly long and eventful history and a cultural heritage considerably influential in Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East." 
:"The shores of Greece's Aegean Sea saw the emergence of the first advanced civilizations in Europe" 
:"Greece is often known as the cradle of Western civilisation."

Regards

Mustafa Akalp 18:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

This is Misplaced Pages, anyone can edit any page. If, as you say, the Greece page has terms like this, we'll change them. Is this a sort of competition between you and the greeks? yandman 07:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Double Standards

Ok, I see what you mean, AGarnet, but I think that this can be conveyed by "...lukewarm support (both France....referendums...)". In my opinion, putting "alleged double standards" sounds a bit too PoV, and technically, it definetly needs a ref showing that these allegations have been made. I'm working on some material showing the other side of the issues, because I feel that the foreign-relations section is slightly one-way at the present time (we're told what Turks think of the EU, but not what europeans think of Turkey). BtW, re: the whole genocide thing, as France is going to hold a referendum, and as they're taking a rather firm stance on the issue (there's a bill being passed making it a criminal offence to deny it, much like the holocaust denial laws, and both Ségo and Sarko are in favour), I think this is definetly going to be an issue. Any ideas? yandman 07:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Do we have to go over this again? Can u please see ? Besides, there are other considerations to be taken to account dude, I really don't understand this lack of not being able to see things in context.. In FR, first Genocide law was in 2001, one year before the elections in 2002, the second is in 2006, again coincidentally one year before the elections in 2007, interesting, eh? :)) I live in France, I know what I am saying when I say that this issue is a domestic political issue for France more than an EU-Turkey issue, did u read the article I gave u, written by an Armenian political science doctor and historian and published in panarmenian.net about this? Pls be my guest and have a look - .. As for the foreign relations, I will take care of it, I am in the process of rewriting many turkey related articles, including the FR, HR and law related articles, so when the time comes that will be taken care of - It is easy to criticize other people's work when u r not contributing anything positive yourself.. As for the alleged double standards, it is true, no referanda were held for other countries, so ergo it is a double standard logically and automatically.. Maybe instead of criticizing other users, and considering the fact that u claimed earlier that you really wanted to get this article to FA status, maybe u should have created the Topics in Turkey template before I did, no? That would have been appreciated for example, but no.. The same old, same old.. Please give us a hand with more practical aspects of many articles, then start criticizing.. Baristarim 08:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Her nickname in France is not Ségo by the way, this is the first time I am hearing it. As a nickname, she is always referred to as la Royale.. Gees, no need to try to be so cool, u know.. Baristarim 08:19, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
], ]. Et si tu pouvais essayer d'être un peu moins agréssif dans tes propos, ca ne ferait pas de mal. yandman 08:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that "double standards" is a slightly pejorative term, and implies that there is no difference between Turkey and the other countries that have joined the EU, and that treating Turkey differently is therefore hypocritical. yandman 08:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
And I have contributed minor changes, but these are always speedily reverted. In my opinion, the big hurdle for getting this article to FA status is neutrality, not templates. yandman 08:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
ok, desolée si je t'ai offensé, j'ai pas dormi tt la nuit si ça peut l'excuser.. Good to see another french speaker though :)) back to the matter at hand.. Double standards: the fact that there is a different treatment in itself is pejorative.. I mean, if there was no problem, why werent there referanda for other countries?? Every country that joined the EU was different, Malta and Poland are not in the same league u know :) In fact, as far as differences go, current sociocultural climate in Poland is much worse then it is in Turkey, and definitely worse than it is in France or UK.. Did u know that Turkey legalized abortions in 1985 but it is still illegal in Poland, and Ireland while we are at it? And Turkey doesnt have presidents that call for the reinstatement of the death penalty.. Anyways, what I am saying is that the fact that there are different procudures applied to Turkey compared to other 19 countries is double standards, particularly keeping in mind that, at the end of the day, parliaments of France and Austria can hold votes and refuse to ratify Turkey's eventual accession treaty instead of taking it to a referendum. It is a pity that French politicians are using outside excuses to cover up for their mismanagement.. As for the article's neutrality.. What do u mean by neutral? It is one of the most subjective words in existance :)) Apart from what we have been talking about, I don't see any neutrality problems in this article, it should be simply describing the country in any case. Many sections will have to be cut and trimmed down.. You were right about the comment about the Turkish cuisine thought, that was pretty subjective :)) En revanche, si je peut t'aider en quoique ce soit, je t'en prie dis moi, j'ai senti un peu de resignation dans ton dernier post :) Je ne veux pas que tu ais l'impression qu'on essaie de te garder loin d'ici.. salut.. Baristarim 09:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Yandman, i was careful to write "based on what it views" and "alleged" double standards. Also i disagree that it is one sided, i have stated that Cyprus, human rights, its population, and poor economy are considered issues by the EU. In fact i should also add "perceived cultural differences", since many Europeans have voiced the fact that they do not like Turkey for being Muslim. If i really wanted to make it in Turkeys favour i would have added that Turkey supported the referendum in Cyprus which Turkish Cypriots agreed to, and yet the EU has broken its promise to lift embargoes. There are many things that can be added to foreign relations, but please consider the size of it, it is already larger than most countries foreign relations section. There is always a risk with these kind of sections that people come and give their two cents about what they do and dont agree with and the section becomes overbloated and incoherent. Just look at "Arguments used against" section in Accession of Turkey to the European Union.
As for the Armenian issue, it is a problem. Yes it is of course a notable issue, but in terms of foreign relations there are things of far more significance. E.g. Turkey-Russian relations, Turkey-Israeli relations, Turkish attempts to influence Turkic countries, Turkeys attempts to become an energy hub etc. I dont want to include it just for the sake of including it, it has to be done in a way which is purposeful. Also, you state that what you include is reverted, but what you included in the foreign relations section before was wrong and you would not admit it, that annoyed me somewhat. In your attempt to include the Armenian issue you made the reader think it had become a pre-condition of Turkish accession to the EU, which was simply not the case. This is what i mean when i say it has to be done in a way which is purposeful to the article. --A.Garnet 16:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the delay, people. For the first time in a long time I was actually doing work at work... Thanks for the polite replies. To answer the "double standards" question, I agree that there have never been referanda for other countries, but this is, in my opinion, a question of French (I'll refer only to France, as I'm currently there, but what I say can probably be applied to others) internal politics. The French government don't want to be criticised for what they do by their electors, so they have decided to let us decide. I'm not sure if this can be called "double standards". I apologise for being a bit pushy as to getting my version in, but in my opinion this formulation sounded unfair. OK, now about the "alleged" word, from our entry on weasel words: " There are some forms of generalization which are considered unacceptable in standard writing. This category embraces what is termed a semantic cop-out, represented by the term allegedly". "what is viewed as" is also a weasel word. It's appropriate that you talk about the next part ("poor economy"). This is another case where I feel the writing is slightly biased. The statement "poor economy" is immediately followed by a "but fast growing", as if to redeem itself. I think "relatively poor economy" is enough, as the fact that it is fast growing poses no problems, so should not be under "stumbling blocks". And as for the whole armenian issue, maybe its because I'm in France and there's a lot of talk about it (et j'étais à Lyon pendant que les Arméniens et le Turques se tapaient sur la gueule a cause du monument au génocide), but I think that, although it's not a formal condition, it's a stumbling block (or rather a big pit full of pointed sticks) for Turkey. I mean, if you were to join the EU today, you'd have one country where you can be brought to court for saying it happened, and another where it'll be illegal to say it didn't! I think this deserves inclusion, if only due to current event bias: What with the nobel prize and the bill passing French parliament and everything. yandman 13:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Mount Ararat

I was wondering if we couldn't replace the image of Mount Ararat with another geographic area of Turkey. My reasoning behind this is that Ararat is considered to be a national symbol of Armenia. Please note that I am not discussing the Armenian Genocide or Armenian-Turkish relations, I just feel that it would be the sensitive thing to do. Turkey is a vast and beautiful country and I am sure that there are other noteworthy geographic formations that hold greater significance to the Turkish republic. Kindest regards, Clevelander 11:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Clevelander,

I am against your suggestion but not because of Turkish Armenian relations. I think the significance and necessity of Mount Ararat in this article is that it is the highest peak of Turkey. CrashMex 14:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

This is an encylopedia for heavens sake, not somewhere where we should be worrying about Armenian sensitivities. It is the tallest peak in Turkey and as such is very notable for any reader concerned about geography in Turkey. Really, i find this whole attitude compeletely wrong, we're here to convey knowledge to people, and you are telling us to compromise that because of nationalist feeling towards a mountain. Next, we'll have Greek users telling us not to show pictures of Aya Sofya in articles related to Turkey. --A.Garnet 15:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with A.Garnet if we do something like that then, lots of people will come and ask for removing the images of different things.CrashMex 16:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I know the Armenian sensitivities to this issue, but it was not put there to offend anyone, it is only there because it is the highest peak in Turkey.. In fact, I am nearly 100 percent sure that the person who put it there was thinking of only this.. Baristarim 20:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

In any case, my point was that it has more significance to the Armenian nation than to the Turkish republic. To Armenians, Ararat is more than what Aya Sofya is to the Greeks. Rather, to Armenians, it is comparable to Mount Olympus in Greece or the Western Wall in Israel. The only difference is that it's no longer part of the Armenian republic. -- Clevelander 20:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Please, we all know the story about why Ararat is important to Armenians, but as an encyclopedia the highest peak in Turkey is very relevant in the geography section of this article, believe me, nobody put it there to offend Armenians, if that can make u feel better :)) Baristarim 20:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I understand now. -- Clevelander 20:19, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Scrap gallery or drastically cut?

The gallery is too big. A lot of the images are not that good either. I suggest we either get rid of it completely, that away stop the arguments between people who think their images are better, or else reduce it to no more than 12 very good images. What do people think? --A.Garnet 13:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


1. It is amazing that Turkey is allowed to be silent on it's Nazi past and even today to avoid acceptance of the huge genocide commited. 2. It is shame on Europe to allow this to continue and even more to consider this country as potential member state. 3. It is discusting to read how some people (mostly Americans) try not to anoy beast saying that something might anoy Armenians

WE ARE TALKING ON REAL GENOCIDE. WE ARE TALKING ON MASS DEPORTATION, VERY PLANNED KILLING OF MORE THEN A MILION PEOPLE AND WE ARE TALKING WITH MANNERS??!!

History is not supposed to be "negotiated"

Turkey is country of multiple genocides and one of them is done in this pages: a.) Armenian b.) Kurdish c.) Greek d.) Serbian e.) Bulgarian

and many more...

But most of anything it was Armenian. It was planned AND governed by the state, conducted by the state in the same, completely the same manner as one done in 1940's in Germany. Seams that Hitler had tutor in what happened in 1915.

And everyone is silent.

Americans know about this very well. Their president and senators were louder on this. But for the sake of being hypocrits we will stay "SOFT".

Why?

TO UNDERSTAND TURKISH JUSTICE WAIT AND SEE. THIS WILL BE DELETED IN FEW MINUTES

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