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:::{{ping|SPECIFICO}} Your edit summary is just this side of nonsensical. How is business insider a "weak source"? What statements do you think are incorrect? Please try to engage in the discussion rather than trying to instigate an edit war. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">] ]</span> 15:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:::{{ping|SPECIFICO}} Your edit summary is just this side of nonsensical. How is business insider a "weak source"? What statements do you think are incorrect? Please try to engage in the discussion rather than trying to instigate an edit war. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">] ]</span> 15:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
::::Discuss content not contributors. Read my edit summary. Thx. ]] 15:48, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
::::Discuss content not contributors. Read my edit summary. Thx. ]] 15:48, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::Gaslighting only really works on people who can't identify it, so please answer my questions. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">] ]</span> 15:51, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
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Hungarian government started a "national consultation" on support of "Soros Terv" (Operation Soros) with 7 yes-or-no questions. The test is sent for every 18 and up citizen by mail, but also available online ( https://nemzetikonzultacio.kormany.hu/kerdessor ). Deadline of the test-filling is 2017 November 24. User:tothaa
George Soros
Misplaced Pages has sometimes been accused of left-favoring bias. I'm undecided on the issue. However, I've noticed that if the subject of an article is a conservative and there is any controversy surrounding the person, that controversy is nearly always covered in the article. I was disappointed to find, upon reading this article about a person clearly on the left of the political/social spectrum, that the controversies were not discussed. And the reason is not because of a lack of controversy. Some of the controversy about George Soros is bogus, but some is legitimate and should be discussed.
Conversely, it might be worthwhile to have a section which tries to objectively discuss the widespread conspiracy theories about how all "liberal" (broadly construed) politicians in the world are given marching orders by George Soros. I wouldn't know where to start because I don't know where this comes from, but according to alt-right media outlets everything from the Alabama Senate election to the Canadian purchase of Australian F18s is part of some great George Soros funded conspiracy. He's become a vague boogeyman for discrediting any and all progressive governments and policies by just saying that he somehow is behind them. 2607:FEA8:620:4F2:3D36:D37B:F53B:D875 (talk) 03:26, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
I don't know all that much about Soros. I don't follow him in the news or anything. I haven't even read this entire article. What I know about Soros has come entirely from me fact-checking claims made by conservative/right-wing people about him. So far, every single one of those claims has turned out to be false. He doesn't own Snopes.com; he didn't help fund the Third Reich, he's not an arms dealer, etc, etc, etc.
But the level of hatred I see towards him, coupled with my knowledge of basic human nature tells me that yes, there should be some legitimate controversies surrounding him. So I believe that there are RSes documenting something that Soros apparently did wrong, or at least questionable. So please go find those sources and bring them here. I will happily help work on a "Controversies" section with anyone who can track down some of those sources. But if they don't exist, then perhaps it's time to stop wishing for a controversies section that will never exist. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it.13:44, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
These are avoided on the grounds that they breach Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy. The existence of such sections in some articles does not mean they are admissible here. It is usual to create new sections after those already existing. For that reason I have moved your contribution. Philip Cross (talk) 10:19, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
The article as it stands only mentions that Soros is disliked by European nationalists in the introduction. He is also hated by the actual left (socialists) in Europe for his subversive activities in overthrowing the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, which we should mention too. It is literally just Anglo-American bourgeois liberals and imperialists, along with their affiliaties/proxies/paid agents who are on side with him. Here is a quote from Soros mentioning this; “I have now come under attack in several countries: in Hungary from Hungarian nationalists; in Romania from the Vatra Romanesca; in Slovakia from the communist party newspaper Pravda; in the Soviet Union by the organ of the hard-liners Sovietskaia Russiya” from his book "Underwriting Democracy." Claíomh Solais (talk) 01:07, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
This biography isn't the place for you to discuss your wild fantasies about "bourgeois liberals and imperialists." Unless you have a source more meaningful than a FOX News opinion column, we've no need to go any further here. Misplaced Pages is not a platform for conspiracy-mongering about a living person. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:46, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
The source cited in the news article is George Soros' own book "Underwriting Democracy" and it is a direct quote from himself about which political tendencies have raised opposition to him. It is important to denote in the article that Eastern European socialists dislike him as well and are not in the same category as what the article calls "American progressives and liberals" (which I more scientifically refer to in this talk page as bourgeois liberals). As the article stands it gives the impression that only the right dislike him, which isn't the case. Claíomh Solais (talk) 12:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
(which I more scientifically refer to in this talk page as bourgeois liberals). That's a rather ignorant approach to "science". In the US, the vast majority of inner city (read: poor and destitute) residents with political affiliations identify as liberal or progressive. Even rural areas with higher poverty tend to have a slightly higher rate of liberalism than rural areas less affected by poverty. In fact, the majority of non-whites in the US identify as liberal and progressive. In contrast, the vast majority of the top 1% identify as conservative or right-wing, and those minorities who identify that way tend to be wealthier than the average resident and far wealthier than other minorities in their group.
Not to mention the variety of flavors of liberalism. There's "west coast" or "California liberals" who are the closest thing to what you describe, except that calling them bourgeois is a bit of a stretch, as they tend to be solidly working-to-middle-class. The wealthiest of them also tend to be far more libertarian than liberal. But then there's the "ghetto liberal", the "Yankee liberal", the "New Southern Democrats", the "Secular liberal" and the "college progressive", all of whom go after each other hammer & tongs every chance they get.
If you're going to make statements about American politics, you'd do best to learn a few things about American politics, first. It's an amazingly complex subject; not easily summarized or understood, and has little relationship with politics in the rest of the world because 'Murika!
That being said, I don't agree that it's "important" to draw a distinction between European communists and American liberals, but if you can find a reliable source (an autobiography won't cut it) that does so, I wouldn't object to a sentence of clarification. I don't think the distinction is a false one (American liberals tend to be economically liberal as well, unlike European leftists, for example), or even that it's a particularly unimportant one, just that it's not necessary here. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it.13:25, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
"American liberals tend to be economically liberal as well, unlike European leftists, for example"
Which is the crux of the issue. American liberals are supporters of free-market capitalism, unlike socialists, who Soros states have voiced opposition to him (including in the Soviet Union when it existed). American liberals also, like Soros' Open Society Foundation, are largely in favour of advancing the cause of homosexuality, unlimited abortion and so on in foreign countries where these topics are highly unpopular (under the banner of "human rights"), which is not typically the case with socialist governments.
Back to the topic at hand. To be fair the article already does name and shame American liberals in the introduction. All I am suggesting is we give European socialists some credit in the introduction as well for pushing back against Soros, instead of giving all the plaudits to the nationalists. Another example:
"In March 1997, the Soros foundation froze all payments to Belarusan users in the light of political developments and anti-democratic reforms by the Lukashenko government. It subsequently became clear that this freezing of Soros' funds was the result of the forcible closure of Soros-Belarus by the KGB for `donating grants to people from the political opposition' (`Repression in Belarus', 1997)." - Kay, R. (2000) Russian Women and their Organizations: Gender, Discrimination and Grassroots Women's Organizations, 1991-96, Springer, 0333977750 (pg. 249)
Here it is if you missed it: Kay, R. (2000) Russian Women and their Organizations: Gender, Discrimination and Grassroots Women's Organizations, 1991-96, Springer, 0333977750 (pg. 249), oh and the other reliable source on the topic, which for some reason we are supposed to conveniently pretend isn't good enough: Soros, George (1991) Underwriting Democracy: Encouraging Free Enterprise and Democratic Reform Among the Soviets and in Eastern Europe, The Free Press, 0029302854. You're welcome. Claíomh Solais (talk) 14:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Repeating yourself doesn't make your proposed content any less WP:SYNTH, and I've already responded to your proposal of using an autobiography (this isn't a personal preference, but our policy). Also, I didn't thank you. I don't generally thank people for repeating themselves. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it.14:51, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Too little discussion of the vast number of conspiracy theories attached to Soros.
This article does need more info on the the fact that he is the subject a lot of conspiracy theories, especially from right-wing circles. We need at least a paragraph that states that he is the subject of many conspiracy theories, including many that claim he is secret part of a plot to create a new world order government. --2600:1700:56A0:4680:EC4B:36F1:FAB:62FD (talk) 20:41, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
@MPants at work: Could you explain why we need this section? It's redundant and the English is terrible. Soros' political views are discussed extensively, as is his status as the "bugaboo of European nationalists". FYI, the 1992 shorting on the pound was actually good for the UK economy (this isn't controversial). The source doesn't claim that it was "economy damaging", as you have. It also doesn't claim that he is an object on hatred on the right because of the Malay/UK shorting. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 14:11, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
Literally every claim you've made here is easily disproven:
There's nothing wrong with the grammar or syntax. It's certainly not "terrible" by any reasonable standard.
Soros is the political right's preferred liberal boogyman. This is easily verified by the RSes, but not so frequently covered. Leaving out mention of this would be the definition of WP:UNDUE.
The claim in your edit summary that the right-wing conspiracy theories are adequately covered elsewhere in the article is flatly wrong.
The source plainly states that Soros' short sale "...broke England's monetary system overnight". To summarize that as "economy damaging" is perfectly acceptable.
The source plainly states that "From , he's become a singular target of unfounded right-wing conspiracy theories, in part because he has so few peers on the left. "
No-one wants to lend credence to right-wing conspiracy theories less than I (an admittedly liberal skeptic), but there's really no way for us not to cover them here. They're just far too prominent. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it.14:18, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
@MPants at work: Okay, so you don't understand monetary policy. The phrase "broke the Bank of England" refers to the UK withdrawing from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. It doesn't imply it "damaged" the economy--the devaluation was actually good for the UK economy. The whole point of the exercise was that Soros identified that the rate at which the UK had been brought into the ERM was too high. I missed the connective "From there", but I strongly dispute the suggestion that the irrational animus towards him on the part of the fringe-right has anything to do with Black Wednesday. I doubt you will find any other references in support of that claim. Also, "Criticism from Right Wing" is barely English. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 14:39, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
Since I doubt that we will agree on this, and since the talk page and the archives are littered with people asking for a "criticism" section, I would suggest that we have an WP:RFC? L.R. Wormwood (talk) 14:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
The section tittle could use the word "the", but it's still perfectly legible without it. If you don't like "economy damaging", then change it. We can quote the source if you think that's better, e.g. "Due in part to his trading against the English Pound..." but I would point out that the article you linked to states that the event "...had arguably put Britain into recession as large numbers of businesses failed and the housing market crashed."
@SPECIFICO: Your edit summary is just this side of nonsensical. How is business insider a "weak source"? What statements do you think are incorrect? Please try to engage in the discussion rather than trying to instigate an edit war. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it.15:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
