Revision as of 17:32, 6 March 2018 editThewolfchild (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers51,833 edits →Talk:AR-15 style rifle: new section← Previous edit | Revision as of 18:10, 6 March 2018 edit undoValjean (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers95,275 edits →Talk:AR-15 style rifle: ThanksTags: Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit → | ||
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At 2018-03-06T08:02:56, in the page , you made an edit, with the added summary: "''{{tq|per}} {{Plain link|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:AR-15_style_rifle&diff=828920880&oldid=828913856 (diff)}}{{tq|, this is where you inserted a new heading, not immediately above your comment}}''". This was clearly a message to me, but the reason I bring it up is, because your edit was redacted (along with almost 20 others) I can't see if you made any changes to the page, or if this was just a dummy edit to post the summary (there is only a difference of {{color|red|-1}} byte after your change). As for the heading you are correct, it was in a different place before you removed it. Since I didn't agree with the removal, and still felt the section break was warranted, I put the heading back, but at that point I put it above a comment of mine that specifically mentions the style the heading refers to. I think you may be under the impression that I was accusing you of removing the heading from above a comment on mine, but if you look at the specific {{Plain link|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:AR-15_style_rifle&diff=828980838&oldid=828978205 comment}} again; ("''{{color|blue|the break/slash sub-heading is directly above my comment}}''") ...you'll note that I say the heading "is" above my comment, where I had since re-placed it, not "was" above my comment, which would appear as an accusation. So I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. As for the heading, it is now back at it's original place (?) and because of the rev/del, I can't tell when it was moved or by who, but I know that I didn't move it. I have since moved it back so there wouldn't be any further problems. Cheers - <span style="text-shadow:#E05FFF 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">'']''</span> 17:32, 6 March 2018 (UTC) | At 2018-03-06T08:02:56, in the page , you made an edit, with the added summary: "''{{tq|per}} {{Plain link|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:AR-15_style_rifle&diff=828920880&oldid=828913856 (diff)}}{{tq|, this is where you inserted a new heading, not immediately above your comment}}''". This was clearly a message to me, but the reason I bring it up is, because your edit was redacted (along with almost 20 others) I can't see if you made any changes to the page, or if this was just a dummy edit to post the summary (there is only a difference of {{color|red|-1}} byte after your change). As for the heading you are correct, it was in a different place before you removed it. Since I didn't agree with the removal, and still felt the section break was warranted, I put the heading back, but at that point I put it above a comment of mine that specifically mentions the style the heading refers to. I think you may be under the impression that I was accusing you of removing the heading from above a comment on mine, but if you look at the specific {{Plain link|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:AR-15_style_rifle&diff=828980838&oldid=828978205 comment}} again; ("''{{color|blue|the break/slash sub-heading is directly above my comment}}''") ...you'll note that I say the heading "is" above my comment, where I had since re-placed it, not "was" above my comment, which would appear as an accusation. So I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. As for the heading, it is now back at it's original place (?) and because of the rev/del, I can't tell when it was moved or by who, but I know that I didn't move it. I have since moved it back so there wouldn't be any further problems. Cheers - <span style="text-shadow:#E05FFF 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">'']''</span> 17:32, 6 March 2018 (UTC) | ||
: Yes, your comment seemed to be an accusation, but thanks for the explanation. That clears it up. Much appreciated. -- ] (]) <u><small>'''''PingMe'''''</small></u> 18:10, 6 March 2018 (UTC) |
Revision as of 18:10, 6 March 2018
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A citation template I like to use. |
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A basic citation template I like to use. See this citation tool: Yadkard I like to choose a ref name which will remain unique, so I use the last name(s) of the author(s) and publication date. Here's how it works: <ref name="Harding_11/15/2017">{{cite web | last=Harding | first=Luke | title=How Trump walked into Putin's web | website=The Guardian | date=November 15, 2017 | url=http://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/15/how-trump-walked-into-putins-web-luke | access-date=December 24, 2017}}</ref> An alternative date format is the ISO format: "Harding-20171115" References
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1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, TB |
Personal stash
Don't let the hatting intimidate you. If you wish to comment, feel free.
Trump and fake news
"People got vastly more misinformation from Donald Trump than they did from fake news websites -- full stop." |
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See: Fake news
A 2018 study by researchers from Princeton University, Dartmouth College, and the University of Exeter has examined the consumption of fake news during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign. The findings showed that Trump supporters and older Americans (over 60) were far more likely to consume fake news than Clinton supporters. Those most likely to visit fake news websites were the 10% of Americans who consumed the most conservative information. There was a very large difference (800%) in the consumption of fake news stories as related to total news consumption between Trump supporters (6.2%) and Clinton supporters (0.8%). The study also showed that fake pro-Trump and fake pro-Clinton news stories were read by their supporters, but with a significant difference: Trump supporters consumed far more (40%) than Clinton supporters (15%). Facebook was by far the key "gateway" website where these fake stories were spread, and which led people to then go to the fake news websites. Fact checks of fake news were rarely seen by consumers, with none of those who saw a fake news story being reached by a related fact check. Brendan Nyhan, one of the researchers, emphatically stated in an interview on NBC News: "People got vastly more misinformation from Donald Trump than they did from fake news websites -- full stop."
References
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Is Fox News a RS?
BLP about Public figures
BLP about Public figures |
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A few things to note about this:
Many editors cite BLP, and even WP:PUBLIFIGURE, as if it means that negative and/or unproven information should not be included. No, that's not the way it works. That would be censorship, and that would violate NPOV. Just treat the allegation(s) sensitively, and neutrally document what multiple RS say. |
Problematic misuse of two refs
Problematic misuse of two refs...needs work |
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These refs are only used in the lead, and have been co-opted for conclusions in the future. That's wrong, as they can only be used for when they were said. They also need attribution and use in the body of the article. As of February 2018, the dossier's allegations of collusion have not been corroborated.
References
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Deserves response
Deserves response...creation process of List |
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A comment in a "merge" RfC deserves some response, but obviously not in the RfC, since it's off-topic (it's not an AfD):
I'll likely respond in a separate section when I have more time. I have always been upfront about the creation process for the article, and have explained how and why I chose the 42 (originally many more) RS used. The references exist to document the existence and wording of the allegations. Period. They are not chosen for their POV on the subject. Some were originally chosen because they "also" had interesting commentary, but those comments are now moved to the main article. Any RS can be used to document the "existence" of an allegation, and since some of these allegations are serious (one is "salacious"), BLP's "WP:PUBLICFIGURE" applies, so they must be documented by multiple RS. Done If I had chosen to only use the dossier itself, IOW to perform OR, I could have listed far more allegations, but I followed our policies and only listed those allegations which had received attention in multiple RS. That's what we are supposed to do. Since the objection mentions FoxNews as a source, I could also do that. Although their strong GOP bias renders them mostly unusable for accuracy (too much spin and outright proven lies) on the subject of the dossier (for commentary they might still have their place, since bias is not alone a reason to exclude a source), they might still be usable for documenting the existence of some allegations. I'm sure they have done that, but not nearly as much as most other sources, because that would be against their mission, which is to deny and deflect. They don't want their viewers to know that some of the allegations exist. Anything negative about the GOP or Trump is generally buried or ignored. Since the objector thinks the lack of FoxNews refs is a problem, I'll start searching for them. Then I may respond on the talk page. Help in finding those FoxNews sources would be appreciated. Drive-by criticism, especially non-specific, on talk pages, RfCs, and AfDs is unhelpful. People who just criticize, without constructively contributing on talk pages and actually trying to improve articles, are a dime-a-dozen here, and they are disruptive editors. For the purposes of that article they are WP:NOTHERE, and sometimes topic bans should be used to stop their drive-by disruptions. If they don't have something constructive to say or do, then they should stay away. Disagreement can be constructive, but it's often too general to be anything other than irritating bitching. Constructive criticism is different and welcome. -- BullRangifer (talk) 16:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
References
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Reliable sources stash
Interesting comments
Interesting comments |
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This is simply false, and it's even worse because this has been debunked repeatedly and the creation process and reasoning explained in detail. The irony is that above she describes and approves of the very process used. There is no evidence of any SYNTH violation or that there were any "cherrypicked allegations that fit a particular POV narrative". SMH. The allegations are what they are, and the only ones used were those which were commented on in RS, never any OR or POV choosing. The RS dictated which ones to pick. Their POV is what it is. I have no choice or influence on that.
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A coordinated effort ...
A coordinated effort to discredit or halt the investigation |
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Saving here: In response to a discussion about the Special Counsel investigation (2017–present), specifically about what became this heading (Attempts to discredit or halt the investigation), Legacypac wrote: "It's all a coordinated effort." How true, and much more than we at first realized. This "coordinated effort" goes way back, with witting and unwitting players working together. The Trump–Russia dossier ties this continuing and coordinated effort back to cooperation established at least eight years before Trump's election, and then alleges the current existence of an "established operational liaison between the TRUMP team and the Kremlin." It furthermore alleges that there was a "well-developed conspiracy of co-operation between and the Russian leadership" to defeat "Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON", and that there was a "Kremlin campaign to aid TRUMP and damage CLINTON". The proof of that collaboration is abundant. Nearly every member of the Trump administration was in repeated contacts with Russians, and repeatedly lied about it. Not only that, they were caught in electronic surveillance talking about it. The micro-targeted election campaign involved a very closely coordinated teamwork involving Jared Kushner, Cambridge Analytica, Facebook's and Twitter's marketing departments, Russian hackers, and WikiLeaks (IOW Russian intelligence), all exploiting a well-developed GOP voter suppression machine which had a track record for successfully guaranteeing Republican victories, even when there were Democratic majorities. The system was nearly foolproof. Respect for democracy was totally gone. The successful election is the fruition of their efforts, and proof of the danger this cooperation poses to democracy and American freedoms. Fortunately they got busted. Now that corrupt system needs to be broken down. Paul Wood, a subject expert, has plainly described this coordinated effort:
The Putin/Trump/GOP/FoxNews/Breitbart/InfoWars/RT/Sputnik coordination/conduit is very active. Note how the ends meet, and how the fake news was directed at InfoWars and Breitbart, and then trickled up, but very little being spread by MSM. Serious news outlets usually reject fake news, but the fringe right-wing (and to a lesser degree the fringe left-wing) has been very open to spreading it. Starting at the extreme fringes, conspiracy theory websites love this stuff. They have no crap filters and believe anything fed to them by Russians, as long as it supports their pro-Trump, anti-Clinton, agenda. InfoWars, WND (birther central), The Gateway Pundit, and Zero Hedge are unreliable sources which fall in this class. Moving a tiny bit closer to center, Breitbart News, with its support of James O'Keefe, has actively supported and spread deceptively edited videos which are very misleading, and they have been busted and debunked. Trump is friends with Breitbart's Steve Bannon, InfoWars's Alex Jones, and Fox News's Roger Ailes, and he believes their propaganda. He has no crap filters, and yet he's president. The Russian government has a clear line/conduit of misinformation feeding directly to the president, and it informs his tweets and policies. The top GOP leadership are all corrupted and compromised, because they KNEW (especially the Gang of Eight members) that Russia was interfering in the election and helping the Trump team, but McConnell and Ryan ordered them all to stay quiet, in spite of the active threat. For them, it was more important to get Trump elected than to protect America. They also accepted illegal Russian money for their campaigns, so they are compromised in that way too. Note that some players may be somewhat unwitting, in that they think they are patriots "fighting the good fight" to protect America from an evil (non-existent) "deep state", not realizing they are parroting Putin and serving nefarious Russian interests. This latest phase of collaboration started with the successful attempt, using Russian help, to get Trump elected. According to what Russians have publicly stated, he started to (secretly) plan the election with Russians back in 2013, and they have bragged, on TV, about helping him and about how the Russians elected the American president. In that process a lot MORE kompromat was created, because collusion/conspiracy/secrecy always creates kompromat. It's being used to pressure Trump, IOW a successfully activated blackmail threat, but he willingly plays along because he has no loyalties but to himself. He wanted to win, and wanted this help. With or without kompromat he would have done it. Now that the plot is being uncovered and investigated, the operation has shifted into a defensive obstruction and cover-up effort. They are now fighting for survival and to stay out of jail, and some are already confessing and cutting plea deals. Exciting times! So is the new heading ("Attempts to discredit or halt the investigation") accurate? Yes, but still pretty mild. With time we will be able to write "Attempts to obstruct justice" and an article entitled "Trump-Russia cover-up operation". |
Trump a "useful fool" - General Michael Hayden
Main article: Useful idiot- Michael Morell, former acting CIA director, says that "Putin has cleverly recruited Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation".
- Michael Hayden, former director of both the US National Security Agency and the CIA, says Trump is a "useful fool...manipulated by Moscow".
We have really never seen anything like this. Former acting CIA director Michael Morell says that Putin has cleverly recruited Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation. I'd prefer another term drawn from the arcana of the Soviet era: polezni durak. That's the useful fool, some naif, manipulated by Moscow, secretly held in contempt, but whose blind support is happily accepted and exploited. That's a pretty harsh term, and Trump supporters will no doubt be offended. But, frankly, it's the most benign interpretation of all this that I can come up with right now. -- General Michael Hayden
This quote is especially interesting because it's Michael Hayden who quotes Michael Morell and then offers his own preference.
Both top intelligence men share secret knowledge about Trump's relationship to Russia. Hayden considers the descriptions rather "harsh", but also "benign" under the circumstances. They know far more than we do and that the reality about Trump is much worse than their descriptions. It's not often one finds such a unique example of contemporary usage of the term "useful fool".
If one tried to create an anonymized example of a classic use of the term for use in the Useful idiot article, one could not create a better example than this one. It uses the concept in two different ways; it's coming from two top intelligence officials; and it's about the most notable example in modern times. No wise or informed world leader would allow themselves to get into this situation, but it's happening right now.
This is both quotes from their original sources:
- Michael Morell, former acting CIA director, wrote: "In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation." Michael Hayden, former director of both the US National Security Agency and the CIA, described Trump as a "useful fool, some naif, manipulated by Moscow, secretly held in contempt, but whose blind support is happily accepted and exploited."
Here's a joke about the Trump Tower meeting:
"A lawyer, a spy, a money launderer, and a mob boss walk into a bar. The bartender looks up and says, 'you must be here to talk about adoption'."
- Finds by MelanieN
Some more recent citations, based on his actions as president: Foreign policy; Steve Schmidt quoted at MSNBC; opinion piece at WaPo, quoting Madeline Albright and former FBI agent Clinton Watts. --MelanieN (talk) 18:39, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Newsweek in December 2017: Putin’s “pawn” or “puppet”. --MelanieN (talk) 18:56, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ Hayden, Michael (November 3, 2016). "Former CIA chief: Trump is Russia's useful fool". The Washington Post. Retrieved July 19, 2017.
- Morell, Michael J. (August 12, 2016). "Opinion - I Ran the C.I.A. Now I'm Endorsing Hillary Clinton". The New York Times. Retrieved March 4, 2018.
MelanieN, I thought you'd appreciate this. Those men know what they're talking about. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 21:31, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
List of Trump–Russia dossier allegations
List successfully merged to Trump–Russia dossier |
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OK, a few thoughts on the article. You have done a really good job; the introductory paragraphs in particular are well done. The only suggestion I would make in the section headings is to eliminate the separate section “Activated blackmail threat against Trump” and combine it into the preceding section “Kompromat on Trump”. --MelanieN (talk) 01:34, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
So where do we stand on the discussion about merging it into the dossier article vs. keeping it separate? That discussion has pretty much died down; it was started 12 days ago and the last comment was four days ago. It is strongly leaning toward merge - most people seemed to think it would be more useful in the main article than in a separate article - but it is not in “snow” territory. I guess it doesn’t hurt anything to wait for more possible input. I’m not going to close it since I participated in the survey. And of course you shouldn’t either. --MelanieN (talk) 01:34, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
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AR-15 article
Please note you are at 4 reverts. Please self revert the last set of changes since we don't have consensus on the talk page. Springee (talk) 03:55, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Consecutive edits without any intervening edits count as one, so I'm at two. Besides, the latest is based on talk discussion, so I figured it was rock solid, and backed up by an even more rock solid source. Reverting that would be foolish. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 04:11, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- For what it's worth I count at least 4 non-consecutive edits in 24 hours. I'm not going to take this to 3RR but you aren't at 2 reverts, you may be at 5 in the last 24 hours. Springee (talk) 04:23, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Several of those edits were purely constructive and non-controversial. They weren't reverts. I did follow your suggestion and have now moved it to later in the lead. It does fit well there. Your comments did result in a better situation. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe
- For what it's worth I count at least 4 non-consecutive edits in 24 hours. I'm not going to take this to 3RR but you aren't at 2 reverts, you may be at 5 in the last 24 hours. Springee (talk) 04:23, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Gun control discretionary sanctions
This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Misplaced Pages. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.Please carefully read this information:
The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact the Help desk if you have any questions. - WOLFchild 07:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)- User:Thewolfchild, any particular concern? -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 07:33, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- ec... Okay, now I see what's going on. You do realize that Springee was edit warring much more than I? Not that edit warring is good. Also keep in mind that consecutive edits without any intervening edits by other editors count as one (even under DS), and many of my edits were completely unrelated to any controversial issues, but were totally constructive edits. So when I was at two, s/he was about to hit four. I wasn't aware that there were any DS there. It wasn't (and still not) on the talk page. I looked. I figured that normal editing applied. I didn't get close to 3RR. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 07:46, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- AR-15 style rifle is on my watchpage and so I saw the series of edits you made. Some felt you violated 4RR and while you disagree, you were in fact revert-warring (4RR or not), so I figured you should know about these sanctions as your history shows you were not given this notice in the last year. Don't think of this as 'getting in your face', it's really more of a 'head's up'. Now you can avoid any future "concerns". - WOLFchild 07:42, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- ec above. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't get close to 4RR, unlike Springee. Just sayin'. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 07:46, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- That talk page needs to have a DS notice on it. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 07:47, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- ec above. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't get close to 4RR, unlike Springee. Just sayin'. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 07:46, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- AR-15 style rifle is on my watchpage and so I saw the series of edits you made. Some felt you violated 4RR and while you disagree, you were in fact revert-warring (4RR or not), so I figured you should know about these sanctions as your history shows you were not given this notice in the last year. Don't think of this as 'getting in your face', it's really more of a 'head's up'. Now you can avoid any future "concerns". - WOLFchild 07:42, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Copyright vs. Fair Use
FWIW, I wholly agree with your analysis on the Andrew McCabe talk page:
"I think a major part of the problem is an extreme interpretation of copyright violation taken in isolation from "fair use", which is very elastic. The two must be interpreted in relation to each other, and we should follow the same practices as major newspapers and magazines." and "With more important matters (and more important people and sources), longer exact quotes are justified, sometimes entire paragraphs. That's how fair use works in the real world, i.e. major newspapers and magazines. We should follow their practices."
Without a broad interpretation of fair use, modern journalism could not function, analysis of major, complex issues would be nigh impossible, large numbers of journalists would be out of work, and the vast bulk of WP content would need to be taken down. Copyright is enforced primarily to prevent people from profiting from the work of others, but WP has no profit motive, and hence most publishers would actually prefer that WP cite their work, as it drives traffic to their for-profit sites.
Cheers soibangla (talk) 19:02, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Agree. We're seeing an unnecessarily harsh and strict (mis?)interpretation that harms the editing environment and does not protect Misplaced Pages from an imagined danger (referring to minor instances). When the content has been reverted, there is no longer a copyright violation. I doubt that we get many requests from copyright holders to revdel content from the history, but that option is clearly described, with clear instructions for them. We'll do it if requested. Of course. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 19:22, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Soibangla, BullRangifer's comment above should not be taken as encouragement to repeat the same type of editing (and I don't think they meant it that way). If I see you doing so again then I will indefinitely block you. --NeilN 19:43, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- I understand and accept what you're saying, but my edit was mischaracterized in multiple ways from the getgo, which may not be readily apparent from the CopyPatrol/Earwig excerpts that were previously posted here, but are more apparent if one were to read the actual WSJ article. The excerpts made it appear that I made a wholesale lift and drop of an entire paragraph, which I did not, and reading the WSJ article reveals this, while the output from CopyPatrol/Earwig may not. I do not appreciate being characterized as a plagiarizing copyright infringer. I really don't. Cheers. soibangla (talk) 23:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Good advice. I know you're really upset about this, and you may have been treated unfairly, but err on the side of caution. Copyright and BLP are two policies which are pretty strict, and rightly so. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 19:46, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Revision deletion
Hi BullRangifer. If you have some particular article histories you want me to look at and re-assess, please let me know and I will do so. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:03, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Diannaa, will do. The incident I recall was a while ago, so I'm not going to dig it up. That would be quite a job, because I edit many different types of articles. At one point in time my watchlist had just over nine THOUSAND entries, most of them actually edited, and with no type of automation. All individual edits. I recently started over again and am at 692 right now. I'll have to keep it pared down. I keep three days (72 hrs.) of recent edits visible, so it's a long page.
- While I have you "on the line", so to speak, I want to make it clear that I hold absolutely no animus against you. You do important work, which I respect very much. I just hope we can move a bit closer together, without sacrificing the basic need for dealing with copyvios.
- Editors get hurt and deeply offended each time this happens, and some give up completely, and not just on the idea of Misplaced Pages. Most haven't deliberately done anything wrong. With the history gone, they are in a hopeless situation with no possibility for enlightenment or closure. When one's good faith efforts get trashed, desperation, hopelessness, and dark thoughts get traction. We do lose editors because of what happens here. I was very close during an ArbCom. I was ultimately vindicated, but it was one of the worst experiences of my life, and I've seen and experienced some really bad shit in my life. I'm 67. That's one reason my only weapon is small caliber and locked away. Editors need understanding and instruction. Misplaced Pages is complicated and huge, and the learning curve is steep. It takes time. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 20:39, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Clarification
Can you be more specific on which arguments, with quotes and diffs, you meant in Special:Diff/828548968 when you said Many of the arguments against using it are unabashed attempts to protect Trump, and it's tiring and unwikipedian
? That was really vague. -BeebLee (talk) 20:40, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, it was. That's because any discussion in that direction would distract from the subject at hand ("useful idiot"/"useful fool") and devolve into personal animus and attacks. That's unnecessary. We're supposed to talk about content, not editors. The comment was an attempt to warn editors to stay on topic and not let partisan concerns influence their decision making.
- There were comments which were defending Trump, when he was not the real focus of the article (only mentioned in the quote), and yet the comments kept returning to making it about how the article wasn't about Trump, etc. They refused to look at the quote on its own merits. Some comments were obviously partisan. Some personal POV is allowed on talk pages, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse for deletionism, especially considering WP:PRESERVE.
- The Morell and Hayden quotes should have been taken on their own merits, not (just) because they were about Trump. That they were about him, such a notable person, is an argument for inclusion, not deletion. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 20:55, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- That's still kinda vague. Can you quote or link the actual diffs where
There were comments which were defending Trump
orunabashed attempts to protect Trump
orobviously partisan
/personal POV
comments.-BeebLee (talk) 22:00, 4 March 2018 (UTC)- No. I've said what needs to be said. That's enough. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 22:05, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- Except making nebulous accusations about other editors in a discussion without specific evidence is casting WP:ASPERSIONS. Don't do that, especially if you're concerned about things devolving into personal animus. -BeebLee (talk) 01:43, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
- Indeed. Besides, you do not really know why user X does whatever he does . My very best wishes (talk) 02:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
- Except making nebulous accusations about other editors in a discussion without specific evidence is casting WP:ASPERSIONS. Don't do that, especially if you're concerned about things devolving into personal animus. -BeebLee (talk) 01:43, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
- No. I've said what needs to be said. That's enough. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 22:05, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
- That's still kinda vague. Can you quote or link the actual diffs where
Please comment on Talk:Prostate cancer
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Prostate cancer. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Talk:AR-15 style rifle
At 2018-03-06T08:02:56, in the page history, you made an edit, with the added summary: "per
(diff), this is where you inserted a new heading, not immediately above your comment
". This was clearly a message to me, but the reason I bring it up is, because your edit was redacted (along with almost 20 others) I can't see if you made any changes to the page, or if this was just a dummy edit to post the summary (there is only a difference of -1 byte after your change). As for the heading you are correct, it was in a different place before you removed it. Since I didn't agree with the removal, and still felt the section break was warranted, I put the heading back, but at that point I put it above a comment of mine that specifically mentions the style the heading refers to. I think you may be under the impression that I was accusing you of removing the heading from above a comment on mine, but if you look at the specific comment again; ("the break/slash sub-heading is directly above my comment") ...you'll note that I say the heading "is" above my comment, where I had since re-placed it, not "was" above my comment, which would appear as an accusation. So I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. As for the heading, it is now back at it's original place (?) and because of the rev/del, I can't tell when it was moved or by who, but I know that I didn't move it. I have since moved it back so there wouldn't be any further problems. Cheers - WOLFchild 17:32, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, your comment seemed to be an accusation, but thanks for the explanation. That clears it up. Much appreciated. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 18:10, 6 March 2018 (UTC)