Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:56, 29 October 2006

Archives

1 2 3 4

Suggestions for dealing with Tequendamia

I would love to help, but I am probably not the best candidate because I need to sleep right now (It's 1:30 am where I live) and I have only a superficial knowledge of India. However, I would make two suggestions based on my review of the dispute:

1. If he is adding information to the wrong articles, try directing him to a relavent page where he can add the information. Caste, perhaps? It appears to have sections for various countries. Some of his information is referenced and would merit inclusion somewhere.
2. Try refactoring his additions to articles into neutral prose rather than using whole-sale reversion. This may be irksome to you in cases where you disagree with his statements, but if you are able to rewrite his POV-laden statements into neutral ones, it should simultaneously improve the article's comprehensiveness, calm him down, and improve your own ability to disasssociate yourself emotionally from the subject matter. It would similarly be good of you to stop removing his talk page comments. It will simply escalate the dispute by angering him.

Best of luck to you, the best way to deal with people like him is to stop viewing them as opponents and instead attempt to work with their contributions, insisting on sources but allowing their sourced information into the articles after it is neturally rewritten. By doing this, you will hopefully be able to train them in neutral writing so that they become a valuable contributor, rather than alienating them. I'll also leave a note by Teq's talk page before I go to bed. --tjstrf 08:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Barrani is a historian not a Cleric

Barrani's two books are still read for Indian Medieval history in universities: Barani, Ziauddin Tarikh-I-Firuzshahi, Barani, Ziauddin Fatawa-I-Jahandari, TerryJ-Ho 10:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for WP:3RR violation

Gwernol 13:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

unblock

{{unblock reviewed|I think there has been a misunderstanding again. I did not commit 3RR on Indian caste system. Not a single edit of mine was a revert.Point of fact, the user User:Tequendamia violated 3RR. Not a single one of my edits were reverts, and in the talk page of the article I was reverting HIS vandalism of my edits which he was unilaterally deleting.Please see my talk page for a summary of my diffs, not a single one is a revert. This user refused to discuss with me despite my pleas to talk to him and was even admonished by an admin.Please understand I was not violating 3RR|see below}}

My diffs:

No I have not.I am very careful not to violate 3RR EVER!I rarely even violate 1RR unless it's overt vandalism.

None of the diffs beyond my first revert for the day were reverts. See for yourself:

Not a revert: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81970320&oldid=81968853

Not a revert: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81972522&oldid=81970739

Terry's reverts lie between these diffs.

In fact, it was User:TerryJ-Ho who started the reverting of my extremely well-sourced edits with a summary that shows clear WP:NOR violation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81969852&oldid=81968853

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81971875&oldid=81970739

Both of his (not mine) edits are bad faith reverts of my sourced edits with his dubious assertions and attributions to sources that don;t contain the things he says they do.

Plus, latter edit diffs:

Not one revert among these: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81988861&oldid=81986851

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81989280&oldid=81988861

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&diff=81989709&oldid=81989280

In contrast, all of Teq's edits WERE revertsHkelkar 13:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm declining to unblock. Looking through the diffs, you removed the "racism" category 4 times. Although you also added new categories, that's a revert-based edit war, which is what the 3RR really refers to. You're right that Tequemandia was violating the 3RR, but he has also been blocked for it. Mangojuice 13:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

yes but he evaded the block with a sock. WP:Sock Puppetry says that his block timer should be reset but it has not been.Hkelkar 14:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

{{unblock|Per discussion on irc, I now formally apologize for violating 3RR and beg the admins to consider my case as I have been very respectful of ] ] and ] and have spent close to 6 hours a week in library doing research for my edits to wikipedia and got upset when (I felt) vandal users undid all my edits and replaced them with offensive content.Please forgive me for I lost my cool.}}Hkelkar 14:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I am assuming good faith in your case. I have your word that you will not be breaching WP:1RR on a single article. Discussion on talk pages is always a better way to resolve disputes. In case you have a problem with another user, you could try Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution or contact another user/administrator who has been regularly contributing on the topic or might be knowledgeable on the subject. Please assume good faith while dealing with other editors. — Nearly Headless Nick 14:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I still appear to be blockedHkelkar 14:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You will not be editing the articles on which you were blocked for WP:3RR or any other related articles for a period of 21 hours. Thank you. — Nearly Headless Nick 14:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Your perspectives

You claim to be Jewish, however, you're as defensive of Hinduism and accusatory of anti-Semitism as User:Shiva's Trident. Another reason why I still believe you're the same person. BhaiSaab 16:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

What you think is inconsequential to meHkelkar 16:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Great! BhaiSaab 16:38, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello dear user BhaiSaab. I totally agree with you ! I've been also accused of antisemitism by Hkelkar (see my user talk page on ) simply because I used the word 'neocon'. But the funniest of all is that User:Shiva's Trident (also known under the name Netaji) introduces himself as neocon !. May be it's time to settle that case once and for all. We can mail-exchange info if you like. All the best and congratulations for your win. TwoHorned 17:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

We'll see who "wins".Hkelkar 17:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

anti-hindu pics

i will see if i can arrange some GDFL pics. Btw, do you know how to read urdu.nids(♂) 23:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really, but the tv picture was captioned in English. However, I have friends who can read Urdu so I can verify translations.Hkelkar 09:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian Buddhist Movement

HKelkar you can certainly give positive OR negative inputs but please don't revert SOURCED edits of others. The whole article Indian Buddhist Movement from first line shows references and links. Ambedkaritebuddhist 10:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I removed them because they were partisan and doubtful per WP:RS. YOU removed MY edits DESPITE that fact that were ourced by NON-PARTISAN periodical "The-Week" and not some Neo-Buddhit mouthpeice.Hkelkar 10:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The link of The-Week? I don't know whos mouthpeice is it? If it is related to Buddhists in India and value add to the article then we can put that link. Ambedkaritebuddhist 14:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Always check if the sourced view is not that of a minority or fringe.There may be other elements in the article that may tell about the leanings of the author.TerryJ-Ho

India dont have any neo-Buddhists but have few BUDDHISTs

HKelkar what is neo-Buddhist population? Where do we find details about their population? Because now-a-days in USA/Europe and India many people are converting to Buddhism because of its Prajna (Understanding), Love and Peace loving nature. But all these people are called as Buddhist. There are philosohpically different schools but the Buddhist world is united. About India before making any comment please go through the OFFICIAL INDIAN GOVERNMENT DATA about Buddhist population in India. Census of India 2001 DATA ON RELIGION Accept legal things only. Misplaced Pages believes in FACTS! Brush up bacis knowledge about Buddhist Population in India and also growing numbers. MY COUNTRY INDIA counts population Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains few other religions also but not neo-Buddhists. Where are these people? There is also another category known as Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes who constitutes approx. 25% population of whole India. These SC/ST majority illeterate very poor, oppressed people are branded as Hindus! Some of these SC/ST people are Ambedkarites but they are also Hindus. SC/STs are NOT called as Buddhists!! That is why Buddhist population in India is only around 0.8% or less. But it is continuously growing because of religious conversion such as 14th Oct. 2006 events. There might be some anti-Buddhist mothpiece but MY COUNTRY INDIA gives details about Buddhist in India. Brush up your knowledge about Buddhist Movement in India. Understand the difference between different religions and then write. Your inputs are always welcome. Ambedkaritebuddhist 14:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Please read about paranoia and Cult (religious practice).Hkelkar 00:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Neo-Buddhists are part of a pattern that will lead to more NLFT's.Hkelkar 09:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

What is this Neo-Buddhist? Improve your knowledge about India and Indian Buddhist Movement. Read offical statistics and not junk available here and there.

Hkelkar you are branding Indian Buddhists terorrists like NLFT?? This is a serious point and I'll complain to Administrators. I have noted your point and anti-Buddhist sentiments even you equated peaceful Indian Buddhist with Militants of Tripura Ambedkaritebuddhist 17:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Mediator

Okay, fine. It has to be a mediator that has not interacted with either of us in the past though. BhaiSaab 18:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Tipu Sultan advocacy

Hello again - I have (at last!) finalised my opinions on this case - see Talk:Tipu Sultan - I have tried to keep it fair, and offer advice to help the article move on - if I see blatant problems again in future by the editors involved, I will make more directed comments. Would you like to ocnsider the advocacy case closed for the time being? (I will, of course, always be available to help with anything :)) Thanks, Martinp23 19:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, with respect to personal attacks against you, it may be helpful, if you have diffs, for you to report the problems to an admin (look on IRC) and mention the RFCU case, after which the admin may decide to block all the socks, if the PA's are serious/sustained enough. Martinp23 19:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem at all, I'll be happy to help - I have the article on my watchlist (I will be unavailable over the weekend, but if anything happens, I'll take a look at it on my return). Thanks being a good advocee (even in quite a difficult case (especially at the start)). Martinp23 19:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Just as a reminder, (this is by no means compulsary) you can fill out, if you wish, the followup section of your AMA request at Misplaced Pages:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/September 2006/Hkelkar. Please feel free to do this, and don't feel any pressure to do ti at all :) thanks, Martinp23 19:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

RE:

Apart from the fact that that edit wasn't vandalism, the user's account was created on the 12th October. . -- Steel 20:24, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Punctuation according to references

I would like to remind you that a period or comma goes before the reference, not after. Thanks, and please remember this when editing. Mar de Sin 22:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

My apologies.

For reverting an article, it was an accident. --SonicChao 23:13, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Your last message

Please assume good faith when dealing with other editors. See Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith for the guidelines on this. regarding this editTerryJ-Ho 00:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Serge is an Islamophobe. BhaiSaab 03:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Ahmadinejad

I think he's an awesome guy. BhaiSaab 01:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Ooooooooooooh! I'm so scared!I hope he is as awesome when he tries to "wipe Israel off the map" and gets blasted into a hole in the ground.Hkelkar 01:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Israel shouldn't be on the map in the first place. BhaiSaab 01:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

We'll see who tries to harm Israel. Israel is too prosperous, wealthy and successful to be threatened by some mad mullah.Israel has first world technology, art, science. Israel doesn't ram planes into buildings or behead journalists on television. No medeival dump with a theocratic mullah running things can be a threat to the holy land. Nor any other Arab/Persian/whatever country for that matter.Hkelkar 01:07, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Israeli prosperity is a result of leeching off the United States. BhaiSaab 01:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, we still win. You still lose.Hkelkar 01:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks like there is a post on WP:ANI discussing this. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 05:56, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Dalit

"Raj's claim of a teeming and oppressed populace eager to convert to Buddhism appears fragile at best." This doesn't criticize the conversions - it criticizes Raj's claim. There's a difference. BhaiSaab 01:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm good with that. BhaiSaab 01:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Jerusalem Massacre

Click me. BhaiSaab 02:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

12 hr block

I think that your comments on TerryJ-Ho's talk page claiming that he sees you as an infidel have overstepped the mark. That implies that the other user is a jihadi. Seeing as you have been numerously warned this week to tone down your aggressive behaviour, you have been blocked. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 08:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello

I have heard that you are an Indian Jew. Thats so interesting! How do you differ from mainstream Judaism? Do you also incorperate Hindu beliefs? Gizza 02:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well there are several small Jewish communities in India. I myself am essentially Konkani, but a Sephardic (Baghdadi) Jew on my Mother's side. She is descended from Iraqi immigrants and her family has been in Mumbai since the 19th century (not to be confused with the Beni Yisrael Jews who have been around for longer). My last name is derived from my father, who is a Hindu, as I'm sure you have guessed. My father's family are very devout worshippers of Krishna and also observe Ganesh Chaturthi..

I personally have not been a very observant Jew as such in the past, though I am learning more now. I did go to the Kenesseth Eliyahu (Bombay synagogue in Fort near Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus station) during High Holy days etc. Minyanim was always there though (at least 10 male clerics).

Regarding observance of Judaism, it is a complex matter. We follow the Commandments and the code of Moshe. While we are not strictly Orthodox (though some Indian Jews are, which is a recent development, long story there), we do follow some traditional practices like Daf Yomi (reading from Talmud), Dietary Laws (hoofed cud-chewing animals only, bled per Kashrut ), Shulchan Aruch (post-Talmudic Halakha laws) and regard the Gemara (which is like the Jewish "Upanishad" of sorts,, basically Rabbinical analysis of the Mishna of Talmud), among others.

Some Desi Jews have adopted Hindu customs over the years (like burning the dead etc.). We mostly dress like any normal Bombayite, including traditionals like Kurta-Pajama for men, Sari-Dupattaa for women etc so we adopted those too :) .

We do have an ideological connection with Israel.It was the fount of Judaism and we are happy that it has been repatriated. Some Bombay Jews are politically left-leaning (my mum is a Congress supporter) though I support BJP. Hkelkar 04:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

That's interesting; when I heard you were Jewish, I assumed from your (Marathi) last name that you were one of the Bene Israel. --Xiaopo ʘ 02:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a common mistake :).Hkelkar 03:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Your comment on BahiSaab Block on ANI

During partition of Pakistan and India, everyone was killing everyone. How come you use that event to anti-semantic? According to my knowledge Muslims are killed more than anyone else. --- ابراهيم 15:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

semitic, not "semantic".Hkelkar 09:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian Buddhist Movement and Kelkars Serious comments

On the Indian Buddhist Movement article this user HKelkar equated peaceful Indian Buddhists with militants. Please read the whole talk page. Sample is as below:

Neo-Buddhists are part of a pattern that will lead to more NLFT's.Hkelkar 09:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Hkelkar you are branding Indian Buddhists terorrists like NLFT?? This is a serious point and I'll complain to Administrators. I have noted your point and anti-Buddhist sentiments even you equated peaceful Indian Buddhist with Militants of Tripura. I request Administrators to BLOCK this user permanently Ambedkaritebuddhist 17:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

This is your last warning I'm afraid....Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 07:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Plese elaborate. These outlandish charges made by Ambedkaritebuddhist are just that, outlandish. He routinely conflates Indian Buddhism with Neo-Buddhism and that is the point I am trying to make.Indian Buddhism is normal everyday relatively harmless Buddhism practiced in India (Mahayana, Theravada, all that). Neo-Buddhism is the scientology of Buddhism, basically an exploitative and political cult.Hkelkar 08:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

3RR on Khalistan

Do you wish to get blocked? — Nearly Headless Nick 18:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

All of my edits over the last 24 hrs were not reverts. The other user violated 3RR on Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and is edit-warring similarly on Khalistan. If you disagree then kindly point out my 3 diffs and I will undo my last revert.Hkelkar 18:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

It is always good to discuss and solve the matter, buddy. — Nearly Headless Nick 18:40, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, sir. I fully agree. However, he has refused to respond to my please for at least 3-4 days and continues to ePOV-push across wikipedia articles (see his POV-fork attempt on Bhindranwale here).I have tried to plead with him on his talk page. he violated 3RR on Bhindranwale and I reported him.Hkelkar 18:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

That's good then. But you should not try to assume the responsibility of trying to keep POVs from all the India-related articles. The disputes will be resolved in time. And you don't need to call me "sir". My name is Anirudh. — Nearly Headless Nick 18:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you look into the matter of this User:Gstar4 guy? See his contribs for patterned disruption and POV-forking and 3RR violation on Khalistan which I have reported on ANI.Hkelkar 18:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I am on my way to bed. Perhaps you could ask User:Bhadani. — Nearly Headless Nick 18:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up

Thanks for the heads up. I found it funny that someone hijacked Kipling's words as praise for Pakistan. Kipling's death predated the very begining of Pakistan, which automatically negates the possibility of him praising the 60 years old state. I'll see to it that they do not put Kipling's words back in. Freedom skies 19:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I've put the tag on Achievements of Ancient Indian civilization. Freedom skies 20:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale

Thank you for your quick action. --IndianCow 20:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Ind/Pak Nationalism

Which edits are you talking about? I dont see much discussion there recently where he's been involved. Sarvagnya 01:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

My reply :) Sarvagnya 05:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Tx

thanks for continuously giving me and others heads up. I think the H in your username means "Heads up". lol. :-) Idleguy 07:32, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Regarding this user

Don't worry: Gowda Hai Lowda (talk · contribs) has been blocked indefinitely. Thanks for the heads'-up. ~ PHDrillSergeant...§ 16:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Ambedkar article and Vandalism

HKelkar pls. see the InfoBox in my version and put back. You have removed most of the information from the box. Yout can revert your talk page always but instead of hiding vandalism better dont vandalise articles. Give positive inputs. You have received so many blocking messages. Ambedkaritebuddhist 17:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I restored the infobox dude. Hkelkar 17:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Diwali

Happy Diwali, and best of luck in the coming months.Bakaman _Bakatalk 21:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply - thanks for alerting my atention. I have been editing on Hindi wiki for a bit and wasnt up to par with the latest nonsense running wild.Bakaman _Bakatalk 21:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Indian caste system

You have numerouse options to solve the dispute:

1. For formal mediation, see the Mediation Committee.
2. For informal mediation, see the Mediation Cabal.
3. The Arbitration Committee to impose binding solutions to Misplaced Pages disputes. This solution may be anything up to and including a ban from editing Misplaced Pages for a period of time.

I hope you get the dispute solved. Cbrown1023 21:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Happy Diwali from me too

I couldn't wish anyone yesterday as I was busy celebrating, but happy Diwali! Nobleeagle 01:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit warring

There seems to be a problem here. I know you have been warned and blocked for edit warring before. Let me be more explicit. Your recent edits to B. R. Ambedkar, Khalistan, Tipu Sultan, and Indo-Bangladesh Border Conflict of 2001, all seem to consist of edit warring, much of which is compounded by inappropriate use of popups in content reversions, and uncivil accusations of vandalism. Take note: edit warring is never acceptable, and 3RR is omly an upper limit, not an entitlement to any reverts at all; rollbacks with automated edit summaries are to be used for vandalism and self-reverts only, to do otherwise is to fail to provide adequate and necessary rationale for a revert of a good faith edit, and frankly, insulting; furthermore, vandalism is a bad-faith attempt to harm the encyclopedia, which means that good faith edits you agree with do not count, and calling them vandalism is uncivil. Please modify your behavior, and keep in mind that admins will block before 3RR when it is obvious that an editor is informed that edit warring is bad, and that they have a history of doing it anyway. Dmcdevit·t 08:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Bhindranwale Redirect

Please have a look at Bhindranwale. Syiem 15:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale

You are in danger of violating the three-revert rule on Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. Please cease further reverts or you may be blocked from further editing. Stifle (talk) 20:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Hindu

You can use this info for the article Anti-Hindu, I don't have time and acquaintence with editing that article to add it myself. Nobleeagle 07:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I cannot comprehend the propensity you have to land yourself in trouble. We are here to make this encyclopedia and not to engage in futile discussions. Regards, — Nearly Headless Nick 16:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

And the relevance of this remarkable observation to the discussion at hand is... what, exactly?Hkelkar 07:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.

I noticed that he had previous warnings for personal attacks, but didn't realize that he had an incident report at WP:AN/I. I've followed up by listing another one (and may later go to WP:RfC). Thanks for calling that to my attention. (To be honest, I'm still kind of smarting from the incident.) -- Merope 18:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi

I sent it again. You can leave me a short note that you received it. --Bondego 19:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: IRC chat

I've had something come up in my personal life and am going to be taking a wikibreak for a while. I won't be able to help you with this. Sorry.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 23:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Take a look at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of flying aces in India-Pakistan wars. Freedom skies 12:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian Caste System - Comment

Please assume good faith when dealing with other editors. See Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith for the guidelines on this. This is for edit with comments "bad faith edits".Comment on content TerryJ-Ho 16:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

• You seem to be mixing racialism,sectarianism and class with Caste which are all different social issues TerryJ-Ho

I have already assumed good faith with you before and look what happened, bogus AfD's Original Research from you, anti-Hindu hate speech, the list is endless.Hkelkar 16:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Please stay within the frame of this article.You have consistently been using past issues to malign me.All those AFD's etc. do not only concern you.There are other stakeholders.Raking up past issues is indeed a bad practice

Please do not deliberately introduce incorrect information into articles. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. Your edit on Caste system in Latin America and the other entitled Racial Classifications in Latin America where in the former there is no mention of the word caste and the latter which fails WP:Reliable Source TerryJ-Ho 16:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Civility needed

It is important to keep a cool head, especially when responding to comments against you or your edits. Personal attacks and disruptive comments only escalate a situation; please keep calm and remember that action can be taken against other parties if necessary. Attacking another user back can only satisfy trolls or anger contributors and leads to general bad feeling. Please try to remain civil with your comments. Thanks! For your comment ":The article is titled Caste so all Castes need mentioning in all countries, not just the people you want to kill.Hkelkar 17:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)"TerryJ-Ho

Hkelkar, this personal attack comes after 2 separate last warnings Blnguyen gave you. Mar de Sin 20:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Here is the diff. Mar de Sin 20:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll apologize to terry, but bear in mind that he was no better with his "Shut up" quips.Hkelkar 21:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Hinduism

Welcome to WikiProject Hinduism

WikiProject Hinduism — a collaborative effort to improve articles about Hinduism Discussion board — a page for centralised Hinduism-related discussion Notice board — contains the latest Hinduism-related announcements Hindu Wikipedians — Wikipedians who have identified themselves as Hindus Portal — a portal linking to key Hinduism-related articles, images, and categories Workgroups — projects with a more specific scopes For more links, go to the project's navigation template.

--D-Boy 21:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

	Blocked - personal attacks against another user
	As a result of your comment made at User talk:TerryJ-Ho you have been blocked from editing Misplaced Pages for 3 days. Misplaced Pages does not tolerate such actions. See Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks for more information. - Aksi_great (talk) 06:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hkelkar (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I apologized to User:TerryJ-Ho for making that statement shortly after making it (see diff below).Besides, Why has he not been blocked for making personal attacks against me (for which he has pointedly NOT apologized). See his edit summary below

Decline reason:

I agree 100% with this. -- Steel 11:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Hkelkar 06:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC) My apology:

His personal attack prior to that:

His contributions weren't personal attacks - he was commenting on the contributions, not the contributor. If he had have called you as a person malicious and vicious, then it would have been. However, referring to the addition of the template as the same term isn't. The second sentence of WP:NPA states: "Comment on content, not on the contributor." However, considering the apology, maybe some comprimise can be reached - I agree with you on that point, although it wasn't the best of form to try and pry out an apoligy by them. I'll make a post on the admin's talk page. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 06:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I beg to differ. His edit summary clearly says "YOU" shut up (that's addressing me directly).Hkelkar 06:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hkelkar has been given a last warning on the 23rd for making personal attacks by User:Blnguyen. Before that, on 22nd he was given a warning by User:Dmcdevit for edit-warring and terming others as vandals. He was unblocked before by Sir Nick for apologising on IRC and promising to change his behaviour. In light of all these, I felt that his recent comments are disruptive and hence the block. - Aksi_great (talk) 07:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Let me repeat what I said on irc. I made the statement in discussion without thinking. I then realized that it was a bad thing to do and then I apologized to Terry for making it. Since blocks are supposed to be preventative it is unwarranted in this case because there is no disruption left to prevent since I apologized to him andd regarded the matter as closed.Hkelkar 07:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

My contention is that the sequence of events in this case is distinctly different from the other two cases. In the other two cases I was blocked and then apologized. In this case, I made a statement, realized it was a bad thing, calmed down and made an apology, regarding the matter as closed. the sequence of events is an expression of regret for making the statement, not regret induced by a block, as it was in the last two cases. Since the regret is genuine, and the emotive state behind the statements nullified by the apology, I would say that the preventative measure is unnecessary.Hkelkar 07:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Further sequence of events:I went to irc and tried to reason with admins there. I was subjected to a level of incivility, mockery and borderline vicious attitude that was unprecedented on wikipedia (particularly since I maintained civility at all times) and I do not believe that admin aksi_great and user Daniel.Bryant have acted professionally in this matter and consider their conduct unbecoming of their status.

I must say that I have had a very poor experience with such capricious admin who have, in my opinion, abused their authority assiduously.I ask that a completely impartial admin review this case (that means that an admin who was not involved in this or any related matter before) and analyze the past histories with a grain of salt.Hkelkar 08:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, and never claimed to be. I fixed your factual inaccuracies. Daniel.Bryant 08:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

If that is the case then your involvement in this matter is immaterial.Hkelkar 08:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

And your quest for being unblocked is becoming more and more unlikely. I am what is considered an "established editor" with 9000 edits, and calling their opnions and involvement "immaterial" is not going to help your cause. I'm sure that the next admin to come along will endorse your 3-day ban, considering your extensive history of being blocked, apologising, being given a last chance, and repeat. I think your luck has finally run out. Daniel.Bryant 08:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion.However, I abjectly request that you refrain from expressing it in my talk page if you have nothing constructive to contribute. I am a fairly good editor on wikipedia even if I do say so myself, since I have made a good faith effort to source all of my edits based on strict adherence to WP:RS,WP:V and WP:CITE. I am not some troll who can be dismissed easily and can get some fairly strict admins of my acquaintance to back me up on this. I have consistently cited scholarly sources, both on and off line, and maintained a neutral narrative in all my edits. I think that a non-partisan admin will take note of this.Hkelkar 08:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone cares whether you're the greatest editor or the worst, that's not the point. The point is that you have made personal attacks towards someone, and you've done it before, repeatedly, and have been warned multiple times. It's only for three days, so look at this as an opportunity to think it over and stay cool from now on. - Zero1328 _Talk? 12:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Dont worry Hkelkar, I have over 5.5k edits myself and am an "establised editor". I've confronted Akash about this and was extremely suprised by his actions. In an earlier time, I collaborated with him in a happy manner.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Caste

Hi Hkelkar, nice to know that you're contributing highly to Misplaced Pages. Keep it up. Remember, while removing tags, please try to find what the other party is trying to convey and consider their suggestions. I saw your edits to caste and you've worked in a very civil manner. I appreciate your good work. But remember, WP:NOT a Battlefield. So try to discuss with the other editors and reach a consensus. I wish you the best on your future work. Keep contributing..

--NRS | /_M\ 07:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

could you speak on my behalf regarding this matter, since I have been blocked unfaily regarding this case?Hkelkar 07:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Things to do

The Misplaced Pages Neo-Buddhists

Get diffs of their inflammatory comments and submit them to Blnguyen on his talk page.Hkelkar 06:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Ambedkaritebuddhist:

1. Summary .
3. Massive disruption : (he's done this once before)

Nothing wrong here, but it's just plain hilarious (Babasaheb Ambedkar "taught us", apparently Ambedkaritebuddhist must be really really old to have been literally taught anything by Babasaheb :-)).

Dhammafriend:

1. Summary:

Bodhidhamma: TBC

Revisit old RFCU

Report Mujeerkhan's sock army to an admin.Hkelkar 06:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• > Please abstain from editing other's comments.Secondly, DO NOT call the serious issue of incivilty as "Ho Hum".

Incivilty

Please do not remove legitimate warnings from your talk page or replace them with inappropriate content. Removing or maliciously altering warnings from your talk page will not remove them from the page history. You're welcome to archive your talk page, but be sure to provide a link to any deleted legitimate comments. If you continue to remove or vandalize legitimate warnings from your talk page, you will lose your privilege of editing your talk page. Thanks. for removing this warning.TerryJ-Ho 21:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

A bogus warning, as mediator agrees with me.See warnings to TerryJ-Ho by admins below.Hkelkar 21:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• > Provide proof on which mediator agreed to remove the warnings?

• > Sir Nicholas to confirm whether this is correct?Is it a specific warning to me..Why?

copied from above "See warnings to TerryJ-Ho by admins below.Hkelkar 21:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)"

• >I will take back any warnings if you show proof of the mediator's communication..Thanks TerryJ-Ho 21:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Support from mediator regarding Mkhan's sock army and subsequent abuse:

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Mujeerkhan

In particular, read mediator Martinp23's comments.Hkelkar 22:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• > When you removed the warnings and wrote that mediators agreed with you - you gave an impression that mediators agreed with the removal of the warning itself.From your proof it appears you are rather referring to a construed agreement that happened on an entirely different issue some times back in history.My warning to you is on using uncivil language and using words that could imply that Misplaced Pages is a battlefield (by now you should be very well aware what these mean).Mkhan or any other user may be misusing socks but that does not mean that you should use language that exacerbates the editing environment and worse then mislead others into believing what is apparently not the case.My warnings stand..you may seek any admin's help in removing them.TerryJ-Ho 10:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on your tendentious remarks on the Tipu Sultan mediation, I will have to say that the pot calls the kettle black, indeed.Plus, you have yet to establish by canonical arguments that the remarks were incivil. Besides, since they are not directed at anyone other than myself they do not count as incivil towards anyone (except maybe myself, and I officially forgive me :-) ).Hkelkar 10:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

• > I have asked you on numerous occasions not to rake up historical accounts to justify your present misdeeds and for sure now that you want to turn the tables against me.What did I say on Tipu Sultan mediation that was incivil to another user:

This - "Can I ask you to refrain from terms like "Osama's pawns".These are denigrating and highly Uncivil TerryJ-Ho 22:55, 25 September "

• > You are not doing any justice to yourself by removing these templates.Only an admin can do so, your block is getting harder to be removed.TerryJ-Ho 11:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I did not remove the templates, merely unrendered them temporarily. Let's see what an admin has to say.Hkelkar 12:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

And as for who turns tables against whom, well, guess who failed in every attempt at propaganda on wikipedia (AfD of anti-Hindu, Tipu Sultan mediation etc.etc.) so far thanks to the tireless efforts of yours truly.12:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why you should take content issues personally.TerryJ-Ho 12:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Recycle bin

You're compiling quite a long list of what to do during your block. Subhash bose used to do the exact same thing. BhaiSaab 10:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

So does TerryJ-Ho.Hkelkar 17:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I was never blocked and neither am I being suspected of being a sock, Kelkarji.I don't make a To do list either.My noting down potential sources is different to your - similarity with Netaji TerryJ-Ho 19:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I was inspired into it :) Hkelkar 01:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Terry was blocked for calling me a fascist. I myself have utilized a to-do list.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

What do you want to prove..Bhaisaab has not pointed out that creating such to do list is wrong.He is talking about the fact that both Netaji and HKelkar exhibit similar behaviour.Don't twist and twirl..what others mean TerryJ-Ho 09:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Stop spouting accusations. This matter has already been taken up at WP:RFCU and the checkuser was not conclusive. Statements that imply that sockpuppeteering is taking place can be construed as personal attacks. Please cease this immediately. — Nearly Headless Nick 15:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Not against me

HI mate, you were not rallying against me personally, but at the same time, I would like to point out that few remarks were unwarranted in that page. Keep editing and have a good day  Doctor Bruno  02:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppet

User:129.112.109.250 may be a sockpuppet for user:kennethtennyson, both have the same views about India, and a habit of following me around on wikipedia. Best watch out for the sockpuppet and it's anti-India stance in articles like Hindutva etc. I Informed you because I noticed you were editors in some of those articles as well. Freedom skies 18:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Genocide

Can you please help me find a neutral source which states that Direct Action Day and following Partition riots was a form of genocide. I wrote quite a bit on it, but it was removed, and rightly removed considering I hadn't provided a source which claimed it was genocide. All I have found is this and this. Both are not neutral sources. Nobleeagle 00:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that the term genocide did not exist back then, so the Subodh Ghosh articles don't use the term.However, I will look into what later works say. Consider it in my todo list.Hkelkar 00:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey man how about your own ref page 7 below:

http://www.sarai.net/journal/06_pdf/05/04_debjani.pdf

Hkelkar 00:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Do a google books search for "Bloodbath in Bangla Desh" by Praboth Chandra. The UT library has it in storage and I have placed a request to retrieve it. It should happen in 3-5 days and then I'll let you know.Why don;t you email me from wikipedia interface?Hkelkar 01:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Ho Hum

{{wr1}} for removing this warning.TerryJ-Ho 21:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

A bogus warning, as mediator agrees with me.See warnings to TerryJ-Ho by admins below.Hkelkar 21:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• > Provide proof on which mediator agreed to remove the warnings?

• > Sir Nicholas to confirm whether this is correct?Is it a specific warning to me..Why?

copied from above "See warnings to TerryJ-Ho by admins below.Hkelkar 21:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)"

• >I will take back any warnings if you show proof of the mediator's communication..Thanks TerryJ-Ho 21:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Support from mediator regarding Mkhan's sock army and subsequent abuse:

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Mujeerkhan

In particular, read mediator Martinp23's comments.Hkelkar 22:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• > When you removed the warnings and wrote that mediators agreed with you - you gave an impression that mediators agreed with the removal of the warning itself.From your proof it appears you are rather referring to a construed agreement that happened on an entirely different issue some times back in history.My warning to you is on using uncivil language and using words that could imply that Misplaced Pages is a battlefield (by now you should be very well aware what these mean).Mkhan or any other user may be misusing socks but that does not mean that you should use language that exacerbates the editing environment and worse then mislead others into believing what is apparently not the case.My warnings stand..you may seek any admin's help in removing them.TerryJ-Ho 10:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on your tendentious remarks on the Tipu Sultan mediation, I will have to say that the pot calls the kettle black, indeed.Plus, you have yet to establish by canonical arguments that the remarks were incivil. Besides, since they are not directed at anyone other than myself they do not count as incivil towards anyone (except maybe myself, and I officially forgive me :-) ).Hkelkar 10:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

• > I have asked you on numerous occasions not to rake up historical accounts to justify your present misdeeds and for sure now that you want to turn the tables against me.What did I say on Tipu Sultan mediation that was incivil to another user:

This - "Can I ask you to refrain from terms like "Osama's pawns".These are denigrating and highly Uncivil TerryJ-Ho 22:55, 25 September "

• > You are not doing any justice to yourself by removing these templates.Only an admin can do so, your block is getting harder to be removed.TerryJ-Ho 11:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I did not remove the templates, merely unrendered them temporarily. Let's see what an admin has to say.Hkelkar 12:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

And as for who turns tables against whom, well, guess who failed in every attempt at propaganda on wikipedia (AfD of anti-Hindu, Tipu Sultan mediation etc.etc.) so far thanks to the tireless efforts of yours truly.12:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Your warning

Thanks Kelkar, I will let this warning remain as it is.However, you should note that by reorganising the page - you have tried to disrupt the natural flow of discussion that would make it difficult for anyone to decipher and decide. TerryJ-Ho 13:48, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

IRC

Hello. Are you online. Want to discuss something with you. - Aksi_great (talk) 15:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer IRC as exchanging mails takes too much time. - Aksi_great (talk) 16:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian caste system

The request for mediation has gone unanswered. What is your opinion on what to do next? Personally, I think the case is pretty simple. I'm asking you to provide some sources detailing the impact of the fatwa (on the supposed establishing of the castes) - all you're doing is providing sources detailing the fatwa itself that say nothing of its impact. BhaiSaab 18:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Well? BhaiSaab 20:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll get back to you in a couple of days concerning this matter.I suggest formal mediation (rather than informal cabal).Hkelkar 20:59, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you ask for assistance from an active MedCab member. I suggest User:Luna Santin or User:Keitei or perhaps, User:Kylu. Cheers. — Nearly Headless Nick 15:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Nadira

Hkelkar, plastering the Judaism template all over the Nadira page is not helpful. The article says that she is Jewish. That's all that's needed. Zora 23:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The template is "Jews" AND "Judaism" so it belongs there as she's Jewish.Hkelkar 23:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I really doubt it belongs in every page of a Jewish person. BhaiSaab 09:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it does. That's what it's there for :-) .Hkelkar 09:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Hkelkar, that's like posting Hinduism template on every Hindu in another country or the Islam template on every Muslim in India, or a Buddhism template on every Buddhist in Russia, the list goes on. Perhaps, if you wish to direct people somewhere place a "WP Judaism" tag on the article talkpage.Bakaman _Bakatalk 15:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

S Seagal

Please see his comments on Talk:Bangladesh, where he is denying genocide against Bengalis in 1971. Nobleeagle 03:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Surprise ! Surprise ! A BARNSTAR !!

Hi Hkelkar, I have noticed your contributions for the last few days. You've contributed a lot. I really appreciate your work. As a token of appreciation, here's a barnstar for you -

<--Thanks for the Barnstar, moved it to my user page-->. Hkelkar 08:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I learnt that you're a Jew. Your name seems like a Bene Israeli name. But how come you are so much into Hinduism and the Indian right-wing. And BTW, can you speak Marathi ? Anyways, keep contributing...

--NRS | /_M\ 08:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Help with your Hindu Surname - Kelkar TerryJ-Ho 11:00, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I think you are referring to the verrrrry traditional Kelkars. My father's family is a bit more cosmopolitan actually, though religious.11:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Religious or irreligious - you are from a Kelkar family and your surname is a perfectly Hindu one not Jewish - Kudos to have a cosmopolitan family TerryJ-Ho 11:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Sigh!Why is this so difficult for you to understand?My father is a Hindu. My mother is Jewish. They got married, had me, and I am Jewish by right of matrilineage.Get it?Hkelkar 11:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The issue is that you let us believe that you are Jew by matrilineage but normally in India your religion is taken from your father.On the other hand now that you are grown up and able to decide - you may choose to say that you are either Hindu,Jew,all or None at all TerryJ-Ho 11:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The Indian law books may say one thing, but Talmudic Law supersedes all :-). My papers identify me as Jewish only.The passport officer got confused once as he was not sure what "Judaism" was. It was pretty funny actually.Hkelkar 11:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not concerned with the user's religion and beliefs. Please cease this topic immediately. — Nearly Headless Nick 15:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

India-Israel relations

Sure, go ahead. My contribution there was minimal. I'll be happy to help with what I can. ←Humus sapiens 09:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)