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Revision as of 17:35, 9 November 2006 view sourceBlaxthos (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers16,596 editsm =Comment by complaintant []← Previous edit Revision as of 18:16, 9 November 2006 view source Jayjg (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators134,922 edits []: did not meet acceptance criteria in timeNext edit →
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=== ] ===


: '''Initiated by ''' ] '''at''' 18:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

==== Involved parties ====
Primary Parties
*]
*]

Witnesses
*]
*]
*]
; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
*
*
*
*
; Confirmation that other steps in ] have been tried
*
*
*

; Summary
] has continually abused Misplaced Pages policies and misapplied templates, admittedly out of spite. In-progress detailed info may be found at ].

==== Statement by complaintant ] ====
After one successful RfC user ] immediately called for a second RfC on the same content, attempting to find other policies (], ], ]) to use to effect changes he deemed necessary (wikilawyering). Cbuhl79 then made several unilateral changes (defying complete consensus) and possibly violated ] in the process. Cbuhl79 went to several places to try and solicit support (policy talk pages, uninvolved user pages, etc.), but was unable to find any editors who agreed with him. After the second RfC failed, user initiated a malformed RfARB, and on talk pages he (me). The ArbCom summarily rejected his request, and Cbuhl79 was asked to let the issue die. User Cbuhl79 then went to my and my and applied ] templates, without giving any examples of such (because they do not exist). This seems a very blatant abuse of wikipedia policies. I request the ArbCom to review this case -- if accepted I will provide a detailed timeline (with examples) of countless violations by ]. /] 18:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
:'''Addendum''' - I just discovered that cbuhl79 also , further abusing ] as well as violating the proper protocol (just as he did with his RfARB). This only makes the case seem that much more serious. /] 19:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

==== Statement by Cbuhl79 ====
I am not opposed to arbitration in this case to examine my own behavior and that of Blaxthos. This user has repeatedly and in bad faith accused me of vague policy violations instead of discussing content.

During a content discussion, Blaxthos explicitly stated that he did not believe I was acting in good faith based on the totally unfounded assertion that I was trying keep a statement out of an introduction. From this point on, the user has continually attempted to squelch any further attempts I have made to discuss the issue by repeatedly accusing me of violating Misplaced Pages policies . He has also made rude remarks to other editors who were previously uninvolved in the discussion (note the edit summary) . He repeatedly rebuffed every attempt at discussion by other (previously uninvolved) editors by telling them I was violating numerous policies, and advising them to read the entire discussion to see evidence. At least one editor did, and thought that I was acting in good faith .

I filed my earlier ] thinking that the Arbitrators could rule on the content dispute, and also on the behavior of this editor. The RfARB was rejected on the basis of it being a content dispute. One of the Arbitrators advised that I seek help from admins on the behavior before trying arbitration.

I went to the NPA message board to make a post about his behavior. After posting, I realized that I should have put an NPA template on his user page as a first step. Note that I removed my post from the NPA board less than a minute later, placed the NPA template on his page, and indicated that I was willing to let the matter end.

Also note that I only made content changes after several other editors agreed. Note also that Blaxthos restricted his notification of this RfARB only to editors who explicitly agreed with his position on content of this RfARB. This is significant because he earlier found it appopriate to notify numerous users of my RfARB and suggested I was somehow hiding the RfARB ] 20:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

====Statement by Witness ]]====

First, let me state that I am hesitant to question the good faith of any editor on this project. However, I must admit that Cbuhl, actions for the past weeks has frustrated me and left me perplexed. From his wikilawyering, to his refusal to listen to the explanations given by other editors, he has truly stretched the limits of good faith. That being said, sometimes newer users to this project often misunderstand certain concepts like "there are no rules" and the fact this is a community project. I believe Cbuhl just needs guidance on how this project works. Perhaps a reprimand here by the ArbCom would be sufficient. Placing a false NPA warning on a user's talk page, and violating Blaxthos userspace should not "just die". Especially when the user is insistent to use Wiki policies as a sword. ] 17:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

*'''Addendum to my earlier statement''' I just want to make clear that I would support some community action against Cbuhl based on his violations on Blaxthos's userspace, and the improper placing of warning tags. Taken together with his abuse of good faith of editors discussed above (namely me), these actions show a user who will violate the spirits of all Wiki rules, to make a point. Such an attitude is harmful to the community here. When I stated Cbuhl's needed guidance, I meant in the form of some sort of official action, and only suggested an ArbCom reprimand. However, something should be done with this user. ] 00:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

====Statement by Witness ]====
What started as a simple content dispute, soon became a ''referendum'' on one editor's behavior. As the dispute went on, all editors involved in the RfC came to an agreement; however, ] refused to accept that consensus. While ], Cbuhl initiated a second RfC just hours after the first was closed, very much in ]. Attempting to continue a resolved dispute, s/he grasped for any policy or guideline s/he could find to back up his/her position. While that in itself is not ''bad faith'', after numerous editors explained why ] was not being violated, and that ] is a guideline that doesn't always apply perfectly, Cbhul continued this dispute, engaging several uninvolved editors via the ] talk page and their individual talk pages. On top of this unending refusal to accept consensus, Cbuhl initiated a Request for Arbitration that s/he has admitted was only to make a ] due to another editor's behavior. This easily could have been brushed off as a new user misunderstanding policy, but Cbhul interprets policy in what ever way seems to fit his/her position. Cbhul has even placed inappropriate warning templates on ]'s user and user talk pages, which shows a clear misunderstanding of policy by an established, but misguided user. -- ]] <small>18:28, 30 October 2006 <sub>(])</sub></small>
;Comment by ]
:Whether appropriate or not, I must express my concern with the way the ArbCom is currently operating. Under the ''revised'' rules, this case will be rejected, even with 4 committee members voting to accept. As noted in the clerks notes section, there are three ArbCom members who have yet to vote: ], ], and ]. Curious as to why this is, I looked into their contributions here at the ArbCom. I was notably disappointed. ArbCom member ] appears to have only voted in approximately 5 cases since January 1, 2006; the last one being May 1, 2006. ArbCom member ] has mostly been on a wikibreak for the past several months, only voting in 3 cases since the end of September 2006. The final active member, ] hasn't voted to accept/reject a case since August 12, 2006 (The only time in the last 1000 edits, dating back to the end of July). With ''active'' members so ''inactive'', a case such as this has a snow ball's chance in hell. The clerk might as well delist. Maybe I'm missing something, but if the new rules remain, something must be changed at the ArbCom. -- ]] <small>17:10, 9 November 2006 (])</small>

====Statement by Witness ]====

The dispute at the article is (I hope) concluded but the underlying behavior of this user remains a potential future problem and should be dealt with appropriately. ] 23:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

====Comment by complaintant ]====

I too am very disappointed by the way this case has been handled. I understand the ArbCom is a very busy entity with many demands on its collective time, however it seems that a completely valid case is going to die because of apathy on the part of the ArbCom. Though there is only a net two votes to accept, one of the reject votes was made before any supporting witnesses posted comments, and seems to see this as a content dispute (which it wholly is not). Four votes to accept is pretty strong, and it should also be noted that the user (Cbuhl79) appears to now be operating with the same modus operandi on the same content/subjects/policies on the same articles using a new account. '''I very strongly urge the ArbCom to take action''' -- this user has caused problems for ''almost a month'', and now with the urging of four experienced and well-respected editors urging ArbCom to take action, this case will likely die due to noting more than lack of votes to approve (but not enough to reject). Sorry to sound so sour. /] 17:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

==== Clerk notes ====
:This has been posted for 10 days and according to the current case acceptance policy, should be rejected as it only has 2 '''net''' votes to accept. Shall I delist this case as rejected, or is there a chance that 2 of the remaining 3 active arbitrators will vote to accept? This will be the first case to have significant support to accept that would be rejected under the revised rules, so I'd like so confirmation before it gets removed. ] 23:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

==== Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (4/2/0/0) ====
* Reject. Let this dispute die a natural death, rather than putting it on life-support. ] 14:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
*Accept. ]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">]</font></small></sup> 20:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
*Accept. ] (]:]) 06:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
*Accept ] 13:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
*Accept. ]·] 23:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
*Reject ] 19:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
----


== Requests for clarification == == Requests for clarification ==

Revision as of 18:16, 9 November 2006

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A request for Arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution. Before requesting Arbitration, please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom).

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Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

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Palestine-Israel articles 5 (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 21 Dec 2024 11 Jan 2025
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Clarification and Amendment requests

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

Arbitrator motions
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Arbitrator workflow motions 1 December 2024

The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and (exceptionally) to summarily review new evidence and update the findings and decisions of a previous case. Review is likely to be appropriate if later events indicate the original ruling on scope or enforcement was too limited and does not adequately address the situation, or if new evidence suggests the findings of fact were significantly in error.

The procedure for accepting requests is described in the Arbitration policy. If you are going to make a request here, you must be brief and cite supporting diffs. If your case is accepted for arbitration, the arbitrator or clerk will create an evidence page that you can use to provide more detail. New requests to the top, please. You are required to place a notice on the user talk page of each person against whom you lodge a complaint.

0/0/0/0 corresponds to Arbitrators' votes to accept/reject/recuse/other. Cases are usually opened at least 24 hours after four net accept votes are cast; that is, four more accept than reject votes. When a case is opened, a notice that includes a link to a newly created evidence page will be posted to each participant's talk page. See the Requests section of the arbitration policy page for details. "Recuse" means that an Arbitrator has excused themselves from a case because of a possible, or perceived, conflict of interest. Cases which have not met the acceptance criteria after 10 days will be removed from this page.

This is not a page for discussion, and Arbitrators or Clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment. Please do not open cases; only an Arbitrator or Clerk may do so.

See also


Purge the server cache


How to list cases

Under the Current requests section below:

  • Click the "" tab on the right of the screen appearing above the section break line;
  • Copy the full formatting template (text will be visible in edit mode), omitting the lines which say "BEGIN" and "END TEMPLATE";
  • Paste template text where it says "ADD CASE BELOW";
  • Follow instructions on comments (indented), and fill out the form;
  • Remove the template comments (indented).

Note: Please do not remove or alter the hidden template

Current requests

Steele359 Abuses

Initiated by user 84.205.33.62

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

As Described belowed Steele 359 grossly abused his sysops powers to not only block me but also blanked my user page and deleted my request thereby preventing me from any way of communicating with other Admins.

Statement by 192.168

With reluctance I need to report a serious and gross violation of due process and abuse of Sysops powers by User Steel359. As shown in the diff evidence below. Steel359 (who deceptively signs his posting Steele only) not only blocked me from making NPOV edits but then proceeded to further abuse his Sysops powers.

Most importantly he Blanked/DELETED my request for an Unblocking on my talk page(very shortly (ie about 2 minutes after)after I put up this request, within minutes). This I believe is a VERY SERIOUS Abuse of Sysops powers b/c it prevents ALL other Sysops/Admins from reviewing his arbitrary actions. He then proceeded to Blank some opinion statements on my own Talk page! Granted I express some opinions on my Talk page based on facts but thre was no need to delete them. There were no personal attacks by me only expressions of sadness of being victimized. The diff evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:71.111.148.121&action=history

What Steele359 did is a Gross violation of the spirit of Due Process and Free Speech and Wikipolicy against Vandalism and Fairness for an editor trying to contribute. It is also I think a Very Serious violation to Delete an important Request for an UNBLCOKING without giving Other ADMINS the opportunity to review his actions. This is a Serious infringment on other Admins' right to review the actions of arbitrary actions by Admins like Steele359. Here is evidence of Steele359's blanking of a important request. Careful examination would show a cover up by Steel359 of his block of opinions he disklike. It seems very McCarthite of him to say the least. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:71.111.148.121&action=history

With both the block and Delections and then Talk page Protection (all by Steele 359) I had no recourse to communicate to anyone in Dispute Resolution. Steele359 made sure of that. If that is not an abuse of Admin Powers I don't know what is.

I was also subjected to Ad Hominem attacts by Gwernol who called me a "menace" and started this by making arbitray reverts to my good faith attemps to help edit the Jodies Foster article. Basically Steele359 felt he could be judge, jury, and executioner without any review by fellow editros/Admins. I've suffered great emotional distress and have been the subject of libelous actions by Gwernol and Steele. I would prefer to settle this through the ArbCom. Steele359's actions have not only hurted me but more importantly the WikiCommunity by infringing on fellow ADMINS rights to reveiw the powerful actions of an Admin determined to get his way and then cover it up by deleting a valid request for Unblocking. The Blanking of a User's talk page is also a serious violation I believe.

I respectfully request that Steele359 for his violations be given a 3-4 month suspension from Admin powers and Gwernol also be give 1 month sentence for his editor baiting and arbitray reverts. I reserve all my legal rights under state and federal law. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Comment by totally uninvolved encyclopedic protection activist User:JBKramer

Inserting defamatory content into articles after being warned is unexusable. Alleged "great emotional distress" means that we clearly need to keep user from editing the encyclopedia, to prevent such. In the interest of mental health, I suggest editor should be banned from editing until such time as they provide a doctors note evidencing a clean bill of mental health. JBKramer 17:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


Statement by {write party's name here}

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

Comment by uninvolved Newyorkbrad

Steel359 blocked an IP user for 24 hours for repeatedly inserting unsourced innuendo and gratuituous negative POV into the biography of a living person. (At least one of those edits should probably be deleted from the page history.) The block was clearly justified and arguably lenient. The only issue here is what action to take regarding the continuing incivility and implied legal threats in the request for arbitration. Newyorkbrad 17:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This appears to be a reincarnation of this rejected case, involving similar claims surrounding anonymous edits made to Jodie Foster (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Thatcher131 17:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)


Iran-Iraq War

Initiated by ^demon at 23:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Previous attempts at dispute resolution:

Request for Mediation which was Rejected by myself today.

Statement by ^demon

Copied+pasted from my rejection of the RfM:

Reject: I was going to notify the two non-signing parties that they needed to sign in order for Mediation to continue, but upon an inspection of Marmoulak's talk page, I came across this section. The comment made by Marky48 (diff), with the edit summary of "Say goodnight Dick," followed by his second comment lead me to believe he is not sincere in mediation, and merely wishes to impose punishment upon those disagreeing with him. For these grounds, I am rejecting mediation, as I feel it will not be conductive. I hereby refer the case to the ArbCom for a binding resolution.

Statement by Marky48

I brought this up for mediation because of multiple reverts with two users who have been writing the article for a year. Both are Iranian and this is only an issue if it affects NPOV. It has been noticed early on in the discussion Talk:Iran-Iraq War it is heavily tilted in favor of Iran who appears guiltless in the whole lengthy piece, and the US and Iraq are hammered using allegations by far left independent journalists and professors inflating the role of the US in instigating and prosecuting the war for apparently their own ends.

"Allegedly there was a secret encouragement by the US administration (President Jimmy Carter, conveyed through Saudi Arabia) which was embroiled in a dispute with the new Islamic Republic of Iran.

My concern is this assertion in the lead paragraph. It's a rumor. All sources have said in their sources that it is an "allegation," and based on one sentence by then SOS Alexander Haig, not exactly a disinterested party in seeing Jimmy Carter fail. Haig refuses to comment on his statement about Carter supposedly "greenlighting" the war and no one has seen the memo, thus, it's a minor allegation. As used by these two editors it's a smoking gun and the lead cause of the war. They've said as much. I erased it; moved it further down in the US involvement section, and added an "allegedly," only the latter remains, albeit with a fight from the two users over it, but allegations don't go in the lead. This isn't a British tabloid.

Moreover, the chemical weapons section is likewise heavily skewed to US contributions which are small in comparision to other countries and identified in the article. No worries, a small US company gets the lead graphs, and two Bell helicopters the indictment for deliberately spreading chemicals over the citizenry of Irag and Iran. These two seem to think that if a journalist says it it's gospel truth. In every case here they report an allegation not a proven fact. Sure it's a source, but an inconclusive one, thus the claim should not be in a neutral piece. I have a journalism degree and if we had written this piece for a class we'd have flunked. It's screamingly biased and so flooded with sources that anyone reading the leads would just accept that position. They won't see anything else. That's why allegations work so well as propaganda.

And one statement on personal conduct. It is insulting to be goaded and refuted after weeks of argument for attempting to get an infractor to go to mediation. I failed at that but let's not make this about minor process infractions, albeit extremely subjective. For example a so-called personal attack is identified in a response to an attack and slur, and the original slur just goes unpunished. That just happened here and it can occur frequently. Don't let the guilty get away with this. They play the administrators here like a Tennessee fiddle. It's not right or helpful and is a side issue at best. The content is where the focus should be not personalities.

Marmoulak (talk · contribs) refused to sign the mediation. He's the only one who wouldn't and since he is the gist of the problem that pretty much killed the mediation not anything I said or did in trying to change his mind according to Demon. That's a fallacy of false cause. He knows he'll fail under scrutiny. I've outlined why.

Is there an arbitration committe member who isn't from England? And keep in mind my lineage comes from Colburn, Yorkshire. The Iranian kid won't sign on to a mediation. What part of that is unclear? How do we get mediation without enforcement capability? I'm afraid I don't follow this sort of pretzel logic. Perhaps someone could explain this angle to me?Marky48 03:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Evidence of edit war over these same edits.Marky48 16:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment from Uninvolved User Newyorkbrad

Based on the types of comments the arbitrators have made in other cases recently, I think they are likely to request more specific evidence that there is a problem with this article and the user conduct relating to it, including specific diffs, before they can consider accepting the case for arbitration. The diffs above and in the mediation request reflect some incivility, but do not yet establish problems at the level that usually lead ArbCom to accept a case. I'm just putting this here to save some time if the initiator of the case or anyone else want to post additional information before the arbitrators start commenting/voting. Newyorkbrad 01:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/2/0/0)


Israeli POV

Initiated by Carbonate at 03:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Carbonate 03:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

As first party, you may feel tempted to add a summary here. If you do, make it a single sentence of not more than twenty words. Please make your case in your statement.

Statement by User:Carbonate

User:Isarig has accused me of numerous things including POV, SOAPBOX and OR while engaging in those very acts or requiring them for any compromise. Requests for mediation have been refused and any reasonable dialog has come from the neutral 3rd parties. The page in dispute was finally locked by an admin that is also pro-israeli after it was again reverted to exclude the chart in question. The comment on the lock was "work it out in talk" despite a refusal for any compromise in talk and a refusal to mediate. Although Isarig has not commited 3RR violations, other pro-israeli editors conviently show up when 3RR has been exhausted.

Requested evidence of edit waring

I would also like to add that no compromise was reached despite efforts by CP/M of Misplaced Pages Neutrality Project who made suggestions of which most (if not all) of the initial ones were implemented in the current version. After these initial changes were made, Isarig continued to revert at which point I filed for mediation. Almost five days passed before a response was made by Isarig or Tewfik to the medation and they pointed to further suggestions by CP/M which were found to be unacceptable by everyone else as compromise that was imminent and refused mediation on that basis.

Isarig also fails to mention in his statement that the numbers he wants included are contested as WP:RS in this and other articles which he is participating in an edit war. .

Requested evidence of biased editing
Bias against arabs
Bias for Israel

I am limiting myself to 3 on each but I can provide many more if requested. These, I think, show the trend. Carbonate 07:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by {Isarig}

I have not refused mediation. At the time mediation was proposed, a compromise was reached by the editors who participated in the content dispute, so there was no point in mediating it. Carbonate was the only one who refused that compromise. The POV nature of the chart he insists on adding is explained in detail on the Talk page. In short, a Pie chart can inherently present only one set of numbers, while there are multiple such sets in this case, and Carbonate insists on using just one set, and has explicitly admitted that set discounts the claims of one side.

Statement by Elizmr

I agree with the statement by Isarig above. Elizmr 22:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by (uninvolved party) JoshuaZ

This is largely a content dispute and in any event has not gone through any prior dispute resolution. JoshuaZ 04:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by (not listed party) Amoruso

I agree with the statement by Isarig above. Amoruso 06:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Tewfik

In Talk:Casualties of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict#Compromise suggestion, CP\M suggested a compromise that was accepted by all parties (from both sides of the discussion) except for Carbonate, which is why the mediation opened then was deemed unnecessary. If mediation is felt to still be necessary, so be it, but the proper avenues of dispute resolution are far from being exausted. Tewfik 06:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Nielswik

I agree with Carbonat --Nielswik(talk) 11:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/2/0/0)




Requests for clarification

Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process. Place new requests at the top.

Sathya Sai Baba request nr. 2

Dispute about the fact whether an article about Sathya Sai Baba in salon.com qualifies as a reliable source. article in salon.com This question has already been treated extensively in mediation. Now user:SSS108 changed his opinion because he states that salon.com is a self professed tabloid and because he states that it is only published online. He says that he was unaware of this during mediation. Andries 17:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I propose a centralized discussion for the question whether salon.com is a reliable source. Talk:Salon.com/as_a_source_for_Wikipedia. Andries 23:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

During mediation, I was under the impression that Salon.com was a published magazine. Since that time, I have since discovered that Salon.com is exclusively an internet tabloid. Goldberg's article is only available as an internet resource and has never been published by multiple reliable media sources. It is only available on Salon.com. David Talbot (founder of Salon.com) described Salon.com as a "progressive, smart tabloid" . When it comes to Biographies Of Living People, the standards are higher and stricter when the material in question is critical and potentially libelous. Since this article contains critical, negative and potentially libelous information against Sathya Sai Baba, it does not (in my opinion) meet the standards for reliable sources as outlined in WP:BLP and WP:RS. SSS108 21:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Arguing that salon.com is not a reliable source is on the verge of evidencing bad faith. How many strikes will people get? JBKramer 22:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Salon.com, as an online tabloid, is generally considered reliable because their articles are published by reputable or reliable sources. The article in question has not been published by other reputable or reliable sources. The article looks and sounds like a tabloid-article and it is suspect for this reason alone. No one is attacking Salon.com as an entity. Rather, due to Salon's online tabloid status, the article in question has it's reliability in question. SSS108 00:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with JBKramer that SSS108 attempts to remove information sourced to salon.com is close to being disruptive. Salon.com is never on paper and is used extensively throughout Misplaced Pages for living people, because it is a fine, accessible reputable source. It is irrelevant by whom or where is salon.com is cited because salon.com itself is a reputable source. The only reason why SSS108 wants to make an exception for the Sathya Sai Baba article seems to be because he does not agree with the critical stance of the Salon.com article on Sathya Sai Baba. Andries 00:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Salon has an editorial board, an editor-in-chief, and an extensive corrections section. I see no reason not to treat it as a reliable source.Thatcher131 00:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I made my case here: & . People are confusing Salon.com with a particular tabloid article on Salon.com, a self-professed online tabloid magazine (that has not been published anywhere else except on Salon.com). This particular article does not meet Misplaced Pages's policies of reliable sources, in my opinion. SSS108 06:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Highways - request reexamination of probation ruling

I'm told this is the appropriate place to come for this appeal. In July, I was placed on probation as part of the decision in this RfA. I do not believe this decision was just, and I have chosen not to participate as an editor at Misplaced Pages rather than continue editing while subject to an unjust probation. In the nearly four months since that decision, I believe, subsequent events have demonstrated rather starkly that arbitrator Fred Bauder's initial assessment of the cause of the dispute was correct, and that JohnnyBGood, Rschen7754, and I should never have been placed on probation in relation to this matter. In addition, the underlying dispute has been harmoniously resolved, which suggests that the need for probation, assuming such need ever existed in the first place, has now ended. Accordingly, I request that this probation be formally lifted. Thank you. —phh (/c) 01:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Motion made at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration.2FHighways.23Probation. Fred Bauder 20:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


In response to the points below: a) JohnnyBGood just left the project, leaving at least a few months of good behavior behind him (from July until now). b) My block was controversial, but if my probation is not lifted for a while because of it I will understand; however it should not reflect poorly on the other editors. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 00:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Lyndon LaRouche

User:SlimVirgin reverted this edit by 172.194.169.47, with no editing memo explanation. I didn't see the need to do that, so I put the external link back in this edit. SlimVirgin then left a message on my talk page implying that I could be blocked for doing so. I asked for clarification as to whether she was threatening me with a block, and she replied with these words.

I don't plan to replace the external link on the Lyndon LaRouche article, but I would like to know whether SlimVirgin is accurately describing the Arbitration Committee ruling, and whether it really applies to an external link on the Lyndon LaRouche article. There are about 19 footnotes and external links to LaRouche websites on the Lyndon LaRouche article. Are they all forbidden by the Arbitration ruling as well? If not, what makes this particular link different? Please post your answer at Talk:Lyndon_LaRouche#Policy_Question so that other editors will be aware of it. Thanks in advance for your time. --ManEatingDonut 22:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

SlimVirgin may have been confused. The relevant ArbCom ruling, in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche, states:
  • Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement may be removed from any Misplaced Pages article in which it appears other than the article Lyndon LaRouche and other closely related articles.
Thus, LaRouche sources may be used for LaRouche articles. However the link that was added was not relevant to the biography of Lyndon LaRouche, and should haev been remoevd for that reason, not for violating this ruling. -Will Beback 03:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
First, for the benefit of the ArbCom, the issue is that the LaRouche publication ManEatingDonut wanted to link to was about a living person.
Will, I would interpret the ArbCom rulings as meaning that LaRouche publications may not be used as sources about third parties, regardless of whether it's in articles about LaRouche or elsewhere. (There's the ruling you quoted, and there was mention of the issue during a case involving Chip and again in relation to Cognition, but I'd have to search for them.) ArbCom apart, the content policies indicate that LaRouche publications may only be used in articles about the LaRouche movement to make points about that movement, and may not be used as third-party sources, whether in articles about LaRouche or anywhere else. The relevant policies are WP:BLP and WP:V. The latter says that sources of dubious reliability — defined as "sources with a poor reputation for fact-checking or with no fact-checking facilities or editorial oversight" — may be used in articles about themselves so long as the material "does not involve claims about third parties ..." SlimVirgin 07:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • SlimVirgin is correct here. The ban on LaRouche publications being used for any other subject than LaRouche and related subjects includes attempts to get around it by talking about other people on the LaRouche articles. LaRouche publications are useful sources about LaRouche's views about LaRouche himself and his organisations / affiliated parties, but are not acceptable sources about anyone or anything else. Will Beback is also correct that in any case the link given was not on topic for the article and thus deletable anyway. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 14:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


I have looked over the article in question (the one that was the target of the external link) and it appears to me that it is entirely "relevant to the biography of Lyndon LaRouche." It discusses many of LaRouche's various campaigns and issues. It is mainly a rebuttal of the theories of Berlet, theories which dominate most of the Misplaced Pages articles on LaRouche. But I am mainly interested in a precise clarification of what the Arbitration ruling means, because I have seen Berlet threaten other editors with this ruling as well (see Talk:National_Caucus_of_Labor_Committees#Disputed.) Perhaps there should be clarification on this example as well. The edit that appears to have provoked the threat is here. --ManEatingDonut 15:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The material on the external link mainly concerned Chip Berlet, not LaRouche, thus removal was appropriate. Fred Bauder 20:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

There is an additional issue that was under consideration in the first LaRouche case - the fact that LaRouche organizations publish an extremely large amount, responding to all criticisms. Excessive citation of this material when describing controversies surrounding LaRouche leaves the mistaken sense of giving LaRouche the "last word" in every dispute. Phil Sandifer 23:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses, but may I also ask whether there was something wrong with this edit referred to above? --ManEatingDonut 06:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Seems OK, perhaps I'm missing something though. Fred Bauder 18:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
But following this way of reasoning means that we should also remove the homepage of Michael Moore from the article Michael Moore because it makes negative statements about George W. Bush. I think that is absurd. Moore is notable because of his criticism of Bush. Andries 18:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Motions in prior cases

(Only Arbitrators may make such motions)


Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Probation

Moved that JohnnyBGood, Rschen7754, and PHenry be removed from the probation imposed at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Probation. Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Log_of_blocks_and_bans shows that only SPUI continues disruption with respect to highway names. Fred Bauder 20:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Support:
  1. Fred Bauder 20:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. That the probation is alleged to be failing in regards to SPUI does not appear to be a good argument to remove it for the precise editors it appears to be succeeding for. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
  2. PHenry and JohnnyBGood both left the project. That doesn't demonstrate good behavior, even though they may have empty block logs. Rschen does have a block for violation. Dmcdevit·t 08:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Abstain:

SPUI

With respect to Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Probation based on block log SPUI's block log and the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#SPUI.._again SPUI (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is banned from Misplaced Pages for one year. Fred Bauder 10:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Support:
  1. Fred Bauder 10:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:

Archives

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