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Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
::::::::Sure, each diff is cherry picked out of its larger context and backstory, but can you at least understand why people think there's a problem, and why you need to address that problem head on? <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 18:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Sure, each diff is cherry picked out of its larger context and backstory, but can you at least understand why people think there's a problem, and why you need to address that problem head on? <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 18:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::My comments were supported by citations to RS. I'm not going to go over each one of your cherrypicked diffs - all of which are taken out of context. The ones you chose happened to be leftist views. I have also criticized alt right and right wing, but you didn't include any of those comments and I don't expect you to. For the sake of brevity, I will quickly point out the last diff because the 2 preceding paragraphs are relevent to context. My reference to '''propaganda''' was directed to the insistence of a few editors who, in that RfC discussion, wanted to include the audio of a baby crying in that BLP. Of course, it was not included which was the appropriate action. I stand by my argument as presented but I regret the '''way''' I presented it, and that is the crux of my appeal and what I vowed to change. A t-ban is supposed to be about behavior and disruption such as TE. It should not be about a editor's views or their perspective but rather how they present those views. I think you have wandered a little off-track as to what actions should be taken against me and for what reason. If you expect me to become an editor who will agree 100% with a single perspective, or that I will blindly accept whatever an internet source publishes in violation of NOTNEWS, BREAKINGNEWS, and other related guidelines, it simply isn't going to happen. I am not going to change who I am, or my position regarding the need for factual information that is verifiable, and if it's opinion, it needs to include in-line text attribution per our PAGs. Read the top of my TP regarding inclusion of material in a BLP. It also represents my position. I think it's best to conclude our discussion here lest I be wrongfully be accused of violating my t-ban. Follow your heart, AWilley, and thank you for your consideration. <sup>]]]</sup> 19:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
If you're here to alert me to the post-1932 American Politics DS sanctions, the BLP DS sanctions or the pseudoscience DS sanctions, please rest assured, I'm aware. However, notice of specific DS restrictions applicable only to a particular article should already be included in the edit view of that article, so it's safe to assume I'm aware of them as well.
Cheers!...simply point to this notice to CYA.
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No RfXs since 17:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC).—Talk to my owner:Online
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The Wisest Man Who Ever Lived
Dr. Rick Rigsby’s commencement address.
I hope you will listen to it before you comment here.
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead.
All the pain is felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid.
People who confuse the words
"burro" and "burrow" don't know
their ass from a hole in the ground.
Carrots may be good for your eyes, but booze will double your vision.
To say it in WikiVoice, or not??
While this list of sources is really good and does establish "commonly used by reliable sources" I think we should additionally ask ourselves - what added benefit is there to Misplaced Pages saying it "in our own voice" as against simply reporting in a neutral manner that it is common for his comments to be described as racist.
As of this moment, we are engaging in what I think is admirable short-term restraint. We say in the lede "He has a history of making controversial comments." That's fine as far as it goes, because 'controversial comments' is true, and is neither positive nor negative as an evaluation. Sometimes controversial comments are good, sometimes they are bad. Fine.
But we are at the same time here being too cautious, I think, in that we fail to inform the reader as to why the comments are controversial. Is he saying things that might be controversial in Iowa like "Gay marriage should be legal" or "Marijuana prohibition has done more harm than good"? No, actually.
So I think we should cautiously say something like "He has a history of making comments that have commonly been referred to as racist." Well, maybe 9 footnotes is excessive, but you see my point. We have more than enough to make the point that the reader needs to know, and I think the point is stronger than if we simply say, in our own voice, that he has a history of making racist comments. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 9:57 am, 19 June 2018, Tuesday (19 days ago) (UTC−5)
To include it in a BLP, or not??
BLPs wherein a subject's work, beliefs or ideologies are perhaps more controversial than the actual subject, should not become focused on bolstering and subsequently refuting the subject's views or theories rather than actually defining the subject. In many cases this may in fact be due to the subject trying to push their own ideas, while others work diligently to refute them, but many such cases involve editors who have no affiliation with the subject other than a personal belief/disbelief in their work. A person's biography is not a good place to debate scientific theory or ideological beliefs; such debates belong in the articles that focus on those topics. For BLPs, it is enough to simply state what their views are and link to the articles which expand on those views. (quote by Zaerethedited for brevity; Jimbo Walesagreed with Zaereth’s explanation.)
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My medical entrance exam:
When I was young, I decided to enroll in medical school.
On the entrance exam, we were asked to unscramble the letters...
PNEIS
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The students who answered SPINE are doctors today, and the rest of us are editing Misplaced Pages.
If only...
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When A Grizzly Attacks
Hiker to park ranger, "Ranger, how does one survive a bear attack?"
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Thought Grenades...
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Who punched the spike?
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Thx for fixing. For some reason I thought our wishlist covered that fix - guess not. ☹️ 18:16, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Need help identifying an image
Gold medallion discovered by commercial diver while exploring a sunken ship in the Mediterranean
I would much appreciate it if a (talk page stalker) or expert(s) in whatever field this medallion would fall under could identify the symbols or language on the pictured medallion. 04:58, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
You've captured my attention with this now. It's a very nice medallion. There's not too many symbols, and a few of them repeat (for example, reading in a clockwise direction, the 6 o'clock symbol is the same as the 11 o'clock (last) symbol, as are the two three o'clock ones). In total I see eight individual words(?) here. Now I want to know what it says. It's all entirely beyond my abilities. Looking at the Arabic alphabet, the first symbol looks to be made of three parts. Perhaps alif ṭāʾ alif (اطا) or lām ṭāʾ alif (لطا). I'm afraid that aside from the shadda (w) above two of the symbols, which appears in Allah, nothing is remotely familiar to me. Mr rnddude (talk) 18:48, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Based on what I remember the diver told me, they found a small treasure box and quite a few remnants scattered throughout the wreckage. In retrospect, I should have been far more inquisitive when he gave me the coins. I just found the following website, and it lists some of the wrecks that were discovered in the Mediterranean and thereabouts. 19:31, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
I didn't expect that it'd help me, but it did. I believe the six o'clock symbol is لسّلطا. I couldn't identify it before because I couldn't find the squiggly looking bit of script, but it appears in nearly every name on that list. The thing with Arabic, and many other scripts, is that the much of the alphabet will modify when going from standalone to cursive script. I'd need to know which bit of alphabet is being modified and what it's modified form looks like. There's also the matter of a calligraphic stroke looking distinct from a keyboard one. I wouldn't trust any translation from GT for this, but I'm using it as a basic Arabic keyboard and it translates the symbol as "For authority" or "To Salta". Might be a ruler's seal? or perhaps a reference to godly authority. I note now that there is a difference between the six o'clock and eleven o'clock versions of this symbol. The later version has a ن cutting through it's top with a large ° underneath it. I don't know what that is or how to replicate it. Do let me know if you find out what it says. Mr rnddude (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
I got distracted by reading that I actually forgot to answer your question. On first inspection, I'm not seeing anything similar. That said, the names are very artistically presented, so maybe some visual modification has been done. Your best bet is to have someone familiar with Arabic or Persian look at it. Mr rnddude (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Coin
The larger Arabic coin is approx. 1¼ in.Each side of each coin has a different inscription
Oh, ok - thank you Kalogeropoulos...so it's not an Arabic coin - it's a representation of one. Interesting. Do the 2 coins have any monetary and/or historic value? Is there a story or message in the text/symbols/inscription? 19:12, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
One of the words in the middle :
قسطنطنیه
Constantinople (is the English translation)
Part of the text :
محمود خان ابن السلطان عبد الحميد
Mahmud khan ebne al sultan abdo al hamid
Verrrry interesting. Thank you! I wonder if enhancing the images or shooting better ones would help? The pieces are very thin but not too pliable. They've been underwater for a long time, and I'm afraid to clean them with anything harsher than toothpaste. I can't tell by the color if it's gold or some other metal. Do you think there is a venue equivalent to the Smithsonian Institute for Islamic artifacts/coins/jewelry I could contact? Wouldn't it be cool if these 2 pieces are all that's needed to solve a historic puzzle, or maybe complete a necklace or family heirloom? 18:04, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Moderation
The below story aligns with my own feelings would you care to comment ?
Hi, Dr Nobody. I researched the edit history for Olivia Colman and it is my determination that it was either vandalism at play, or as a long shot, some bizarre publicity stunt. The latter came to mind after I saw this cited source. The article criticizing WP was publicized rather quickly but it was not reported as vandalism. The author of the article was Olivia Colman, so it's highly possible that she simply doesn't understand how WP works. Once an admin was made aware of the edit warring, the BLP was semi-protected. I'm not sure there is adequate proof that the IPs who were focused primarily on her DOB were socks that may warrant an investigation - Berean Hunter?? - but it was rather strange for such an extensive amount of back and forth regarding a long standing stable DOB (infobox added in 2006) that led to criticism of WP in Sky News, authored by the BLP herself and published within a day or two of the aggressive focus on her DOB by IPs. 17:10, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm not seeing what has been alleged concerning the birth date at all. I would need to see diffs. I did find where someone was removing Olivia as a birth name, two accounts...this and this. That would be an issue where someone might ask about a birth certificate in OTRS if they had been written to but she would have had to authenticate herself somehow and that doesn't sound like it happened. That issue is the only thing that even slightly looks related. — Berean Hunter(talk)18:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Ewwww...lotsa diffs, BH...beginning 27 January but most on 28 January 2019 within 1 to several minutes of each other throughout the day.
Jan 27 2019 mobile IP 2a02:c7f:2856:8600:bdc3:500c:3d3b:a753 changed long standing stable DOB to 1966.
You missed where "Colman said it happened "years ago" and that she gave a nickname to disguise her identity." She isn't talking about the recent vandalism which seems to have started Dec. Jan. 14 and the recent spate of vandalism in January is because this podcast was published. The diffs that you have are all within the last several couple of weeks, right? She and those newspapers caused that. The situation that she describes never happened. — Berean Hunter(talk)09:46, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
BH, please re-read my reply to Dr Nobody above. I simply brought your attention to this issue for validation and possible action for what I thought had caused the disruption; i.e., "either vandalism at play, or as a long shot, some bizarre publicity stunt. I know what she said in the article did not happen - I went to the trouble of researching the diffs, and stated in my reply above that the correct date has been long standing. I wasn't sure what, if anything, could be done to prevent it in the future, short of PP. I'm now wondering if you possibly misunderstood my reason for pinging you? 18:02, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
My new article Land of Maidens would make use of a better version of the header painting
GRuban once provided links to the "getting place" for such images...all I need to remember is when and where but hopefully he will help us again, and this time I'll file the links in a place that's easier to remember. 14:00, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Hmm. Yes, maidens are hard to find nowadays, and even harder to land. Though, honestly, the image you already have isn't that small resolution, and, reduced to display in the article the difference will be hard to see to all but the most discerning. But I did find something maybe half again larger in each dimension, see if you like. Unfortunately this one comes with a white border that isn't strictly rectangular, so cropping it off either leaves in some border or loses some painting, you call as to which is better, or if you like you can try to recrop. Also I removed an "of" from the Commons category name. --GRuban (talk) 15:51, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Yup. That link there will take you to a noticeably higher resolution version. That would be the holy grail, no doubt. A few issues, though.
There seem to be two column tops occluding the lower corners.
Downloading won't be trivial, since the higher resolution version is not sent as a single image, but displayed on a canvas, quite likely a block at a time.
The website apparently has limited capacity; as I was trying to debug exactly how that image was displayed on the canvas, it started sending a usage message.
So if you really, really want a higher resolution image, all that can be overcome, but only with effort. Perhaps the images I uploaded already, above, will suffice? --GRuban (talk) 16:06, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
SNAAAAKE!! - he came through for us again. I must remember to simply search his user name in my archives (and vice versa) to find his pearls of wisdom but then I thought maybe he needed the exercise to maintain freshness...you know, use it or lose it. 17:25, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Ah, pearls you want now? In this case, the pearl diving was by doing a bit of Google Image Searching.
First, Google Search-By-Image (I use a Commons gadget that makes it easier, https://commons.wikimedia.org/MediaWiki:Gadget-GoogleImages.js, but you can also just go to http://images.google.com, click on the gray camera icon in the searchbox, and paste in the image URL - note you want the URL of the actual image, not of the Commons page that happens to host the image)
Then after reading a few of the results, one of them mentioned the Boston Public Library, so I did another (either image or standard) Google search on "Castle of Maidens Boston Public Library" and found the DigitalCommonwealth links among the first few results. --GRuban (talk) 17:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks! is great but I think "date" should be rather for when the painting was made. (Also only now realized has been there all the time.) There are other images of notably poor quality like or (the latter in use for Galahad anyway at Blanchefleur now.). SNAAAAKE!! (talk)
Careful edits to your User page
A few of us gnomes go around fixing pages with Special:LintErrors, and your user page popped up on my radar as a page with many errors that were causing the page to be displayed in ways that changed when Tidy went away. I have boldly and carefully made some changes to your page in order to restore it to what it likely looked like before Tidy's departure. If I have made any errors, I apologize. I'm happy to fix any mistakes that I have made; just let me know what doesn't look right. (There are still some low-priority errors remaining; a bot will probably come by someday to fix those, if the community deems it necessary.) – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:27, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, Jonesey95 - thank you for all the work you do gnoming. I thought I cleaned the lint trap several months ago to prevent moisture build-up and eventual paint peel - guess not. I am rather dependent on Tidy so whatever accommodates a better display of my page's cleanliness, please feel free to gnome away...although don't be concerned about any of the dirty language you may happen upon. I have a healthy variety of (talk page watcher)s / , some of whom are rather rowdy and unpredictable...ah, but variety is the spice of life. 17:42, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for tolerating me. And don't worry about the salty bits; they make my day a lot more fun than the edit wars and clue-impaired folks that infect some of my other gnome hangouts. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:46, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
I think quite a bit of this comes out of what turned out to be a mess that emerged in one of my talk page archives. There was enough lint to knit a sweater, and I think a lot of it was thanks to Atsme (and to Thunder Britches, whose return I hope is imminent). Jonesey95 was kind enough to fix it for me, and I'm guessing your messages showed up. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Tryp - about my lint...according to the wikilinked thread, my sig has been fixed, but when that thread began there were "8,809,398 lint errors of type Obsolete HTML tags, most of those <font> tags. My sig represents only a few parts per million, which is a tiny part of a much bigger problem. In other words, you've probably got more lint in your navel than what I've left behind in threads on your TP. 01:40, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Day-em rotor blades...they'll do it everytime. So...speaking of rotor blades...here's one for you, Tryp:
A blonde woman was taking helicopter lessons. The instructor said: "I'll radio you every 1,000 feet to see how you're doing."
The instructor radioed her at 1,000 ft. and said she was doing great. Told her she was still doing well at 2,000 ft.
Just before 3,000 feet, the propeller stopped, and she twirled to the ground. The instructor ran to her and pulled her out of the wreckage. He asked, "What went wrong?" She said: "At 2,500 feet, I was getting cold so I turned the big fan off." 22:59, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Would you try and write a more proper lead for Mordred based on the current version of the article?
It might also help me out in seeing is the article really giving a proper impression about various aspects, does it get them a proper due or maybe forgetting something important, etc. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 13:18, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Good thoughts, SNAAAAKE!! I will attempt to perform my layperson duties tomorrow when I'm assured of a fresh start. For the moment, Happy Hour is upon us. Me thinks it is better to wait until the potion wears off. 23:17, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Good job, SNAAAAKE!!! I love the way you articulated my prose and added what was necessary to make it flow. You never cease to amaze me. 02:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Sorry I can't find the beautiful "You've got mail!" thingy. Just to let you know I e-mailed you. Feel free to revert/delete this edit.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Zig - it's all good! I am a monitor lizard... I will monitor my emails when the volunteer work day begins tomorrow...or the next day...or two. I will do my best to not disappoint. 23:27, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
WOOF, WOOF, WOOF
Atsme, how are those little puppies doing? You know, I did that once too. Both a lot of fun and a nightmare at the same time.
Golden retriever with her litter of 13 goldendoodle puppies
Wow! 13 puppies and you survived! My daughter's litter is down by 2 and the survivors are getting big fast, Gandydancer. She, not I, is the one who was blessed/cursed with that litter. I'm a former breeder of Rottweilers - retired from breeding/raising/training-exhibiting when there was no one left but me to clean the dog runs. As you already know, being a breeder-kennel owner is a lot of work that requires child labor. My oldest daughter (who had excellent training in kennel cleaning/training as a child) ventured into raising/breeding/exhibiting American Bulldogs and French Bulldogs, and has done well. She had one litter of 13 bullies a while back but I was never blessed/cursed with such a huge litter. I'm just an humble spectator. I can only imagine what it must be like to be strapped with the responsibility. Crissy's holiday litter of 12 is now down to 10 puppies; 1 died at birth, and another had ichthyosis and had to be put down. I see where some of our dog articles need some work so as soon as I can pry myself away from The Adventures of Merlin marathon on Netflix, I'll get busy. I also have an image of a premature red bag foal that I've been meaning to upload. Oh, and I raised/owned/sold a few pot bellied pigs, one of whom (my Miss Piggy) was in a B-movie that aired on Bravo (Flowers on a MooMoo), and another I gave to Leslie Merrill (she hosted/did voice overs for me) was flown to New York to appear on David Letterman's stupid pet tricks. As it turned out, the night she was scheduled, Letterman hosted Sting and Samuel L. Jackson, and the show ran overtime, so all Leslie came away with was a year's supply of Coors Lite, and some photographs of Layla with the 2 celebs. 14:57, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Just dropping by to apologise for not getting back to your holiday greetings. To be honest I just went off -line just before Christmas. I feel really bad for not getting back to you, but I was in the badlands emotionally. Son of a bitch. I do hope you and yours are well and kicking arse where it's required! Forgive me babe? Respect and love. Si.Simon Adler (talk) 05:02, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Simon Adler!! What a pleasant surprise. Of course you're forgiven, even though you've done nothing that requires forgiveness. I was wondering what happened to you and thought maybe you were just taking some time off for the holidays. I'm sorry to hear you were down in the dumps. What can I and your other Wikifriends do to (1) make you feel better, and (2) prevent potential badlands trips in the future? 😘 06:26, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
It is my immense pleasure to nominate Atsme, a highly prolific veteran editor and one of the best contributors to Misplaced Pages. She is an editor who totally deserves this award and, in fact, it was very astounding that she has not received it yet. She has created 43 articles and provided 84 Images to enhance WikiPedia. She is a proud member of the WP Response Team, the Guild of Copy Editors and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Horse racing. There are countless reasons to nominate her, but the best reason would be: "Writing or significantly expanding articles on a regular basis". A visit to her talk page is filled with humor and enjoyably fun. She has immensely contributed to a wide array of animal species in addition to other articles on monuments (American paddlefish, Faisalabad, bowfin, loham, and the Taj Mahal as well as several others). I would therefore strongly advocate that she be adorned with this award!
You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:
... this is such an honor ... I am humbled over the recognition, and feel blessed with the good fortune of having collaborated with some extraordinary past recipients of this memorable award. Such recognition is very much appreciated - thank you Adityavagarwal, Buster7 and Emir of Misplaced Pages - but I must admit that I feel a bit guilty over being rewarded for something I truly love doing...uhm, but not guilty enough to not display it on my user page. 16:34, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Well done, Atsme. It's not just your Talk page that's "filled with humor and enjoyably fun". You have a great sense of humor and that's really appreciated. Great article work too, of course! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you Martin and Tryp...without your comedic minds and contributing wit, I would have no humor. Quite frankly, I was taken aback when I first saw the award - I had recently read this Op-ed by Kudz - but then I recognized the names involved here and with a big sigh of relief, I started running a marathon. It was a great way to start the day! In fact, Happy Hour came much earlier than usual as a result, and it's showing promise as an all-nighter. 🥂 🍾 😜 22:07, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
I somehow missed the entire mess described in that op-ed, but now that I've seen it, I could use a drink myself. Not good. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:24, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
I am of the crowd that says I would have thought you had received this honor already. Well then, justice is now served as I can think of no one who deserves it more at this time. Congratulations! It is from a handful of editors that include you from which I have improved my editing skills since I got here a bit over two years ago. Very well deserved indeed. dawnleelynn00:43, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Every week for fuck knows how long you have been a colleague, you have been editor of the week, with your wit, gentle toughness (don't fuck with Atsme) and enormous body of contributions. Lurve your style, lurve you for being you. Honest and gutsy, with your own compass. Oh and being a confident and strong woman, without needing any 'ism' or 'ist' label. You are you. Respect Simon Adler (talk) 05:01, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Wow, Simon! My TP edit banner must be doing its job. I was awestruck reading your words..admittedly with a momentary pause at "enormous body" thinking maybe a punchline was forthcoming. (sidenote: the words on the back of my t-shirt when touring astride the Suzi: "Does this bike make my ass look fast?") Anyway, humor aside, the real me was blushing. I'm delighted that our interactions have always been with mutual respect and admiration. ❤️ 14:31, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
First, congrats on the above. I don't think I have your talkpage watchlisted, so I didn't see the Editor of the Week award until now.
On the other thing, I'm sorry that you feel that way about my questions/comments. That was not the spirit in which they were intended. I was genuinely impressed by your appeal, and with the depth of introspection you showed in your initial statement I thought the rest of the unban was going to be a slam-dunk for you. That's why I was caught off guard when you started litigating and asking for diffs instead of answering my question, which is why I responded the way I did with the "disingenuous" comment. I'll back away from the AE thread for now, but if you want to discuss further I'm happy to do it here. I'll understand though if you don't want to do that right now. ~Awilley (talk) 02:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for commenting here. I'm feeling the pain of the pile-ons right now - do you have any extra Prep H? I believed that my years here as an editor would have at least earned some confidence in my abilities and enough trust in who I am that I wouldn't have to be subjected to such ridicule and distrust. I can assure you that I've thoroughly examined each and every diff that was used against me in the original t-ban - no diff was left unturned - and that is why I believe I did the right thing when formulating my appeal. It was broad in scope but it covered every aspect of what I believed would be considered t-ban worthy based on the diffs used against me. I will not allow myself to be subjected to aspersions - everyone has an opinion and not all will be favorable, much of it based on preconceived notions, or miscommunications or misperceptions of things that were said. It doesn't matter who imposed the t-ban, and I don't want that to take precedence over my actual appeal. I hope you understand why I feel the way I do. It's a matter of relevance. 02:57, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Somewhat, but more like I'm being punished because I'm not saying things the way I'm expected to say them. 04:37, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
OK, I can see how you would feel that. I can't speak for others, but I felt like I asked a fairly clear question, and that instead of getting a clear answer I got a jumble of wikilawering in response. Looking at your first response you jump from demanding diffs, say I'm close to "casting aspersions", say that you aren't one to "spew nonsense" (I didn't accuse you of anything like that), link to other pages that show other people talking in general terms about news outlets (why?), go off on a tangent about DS sanctions and other editors like SPECIFICO, and appeal to Bishonen to support your point that other editors have been topic banned from AP2 (an uncontroversial point that exactly zero people dispute). None of that came close to answering my actual question, which was whether you think it's ok to dismiss mainstream reliable sources as "biased" and "propaganda" while saying things like Breitbart is is as reliable as any of the top liberal sites like the NY Times. (Yes, I get that that diff is from a RS/N board not an article talk page, and that it was something about Ben Shapiro that started the thread, but the question still stands.) Anyway, my main hang up is that you haven't answered my question, and I'm still happy to fully support the unban when I see an adequate answer. However I fear that others will see your initial long-winded non-responses as evidence that you have not abandoned the other behaviors that led to the topic ban. ~Awilley (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
My response would be what DGG said with regards to how sources are to be use per our PAGs and that is what I have always done. He said it all very eloquently. 14:41, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
I would much prefer to hear your words, and not a trite "What DGG said". DGG made some great points (that I agree with), but it's also possible for different people to read different things into what others say. I'd like for you to make and own your own statement.
Also I want to stress that there's not a single right answer, and you're not on trial for what you personally believe. I'd be completely satisfied if you said something along the lines of
Personal experiences have taught me to be extremely distrustful of the mainstream news media, and I personally trust sources like Breitbart over sources I view as biased like the NYTimes. That said, I recognize that there is a proper venue for discussing the reliability of sources and that the community has decided that some sources are more reliable than others. Even though I am uncomfortable with the current practice of blacklisting certain sources while promoting others as generally reliable, I recognize that it is disruptive for me to re-litigate the issue on article talkpages. So even though I may disagree with something on a personal level I am committed to respecting community consensus and WP:Writing for the enemy.
Again I'm not trying to force feed you a proper response. I just want you to be sincere, to own the problem, and convince me that you know how to solve it. ~Awilley (talk) 15:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
I was actually trying to avoid the appearance of bludgeoning, and then when I do what I feel is my obligation to respond, I get accused of wikilawyering or something else. Forgive me, but the allegations made against me with regards to RS are simply false. I truly don't understand why you insist that I "dismiss mainstream reliable sources as "biased" and "propaganda" while saying things like Breitbart is is as reliable as any of the top liberal sites like the NY Times. It appears to be based on unsupported allegations or a misinterpretation, and it saddens me to be pigeonholed in that manner; i.e., as a Brietbart supporter, etc. - when that is not the case at all. Review the diff that was used against me - it was dated January 4 2015 - a comment I made at RSN about Breitbart a short 3 years after Andrew Breitbart died and the publication was still considered more reliable than what it devolved into under Steve Bannon after Andrew's death. Bannon turned it into the tabloidy internet click bait publication that it is today. Regardless, my position on RS aligns strictly with our PAGs - the update for Breitbart at RSN is here. Buzzfeed is certainly in the same ranking, yet it was used as the basis for an entire article on WP. All the allegations that I am unable to recognize RS are completely false, and if there is a diff out there somewhere that will prove otherwise, I welcome its publication, but to date, there has not been one diff presented that has confirmed otherwise. Whenever I've debated material cited to any source, I have always tried to provide additional sources for verifiability, and I also look for sources that publish both sides, which aligns with NPOV. I highly recommend that you read the following as it supports my position regarding my caution about NOTNEWS, BREAKINGNEWS, etc.: "Merchants of Truth: The Business of News and the Fight for Facts", by Jill Abramson, an exposé by the former editor of the NYTimes. WaPo also published something similar, criticizing their own reporting as well as the reporting of other news sources. Awilley, as I've said before, my area of expertise is journalism as a former field producer for CNN so it's possible that I'm aware of things that others aren't attuned to seeing. I realize expert opinions aren't given any consideration above the opinions of others, and I accept that fact, but I truly do believe I have successfully refuted the unsupported charges against me regarding RS. I should not have to continue doing so based on diffs that absolutely do not support the allegations. As my body of work will evidence, when I'm editing an article - any article - my primary focus is to get the article right. I strictly adhere to our 3 core content policies - NPOV, V and NOR - and if it's a BLP, then I tend to be even stricter, and that's what got me into trouble - not letting go. I promised to not make those mistakes again, and I hope you will find it in your heart to believe me. When I edit, I see every article as a potential FA - to a fault - and that is what led to my becoming overzealous and insensitive to the opposition. I do not profess to be perfect - we all make mistakes - but I am amenable and as I have demonstrated, willing to accept change. I've been accused on the internet as being a member of WP's far left cabal and then later accused as being an alt-right wingnut. I'm actually somewhere in between, but what I gleaned from the accusations is that it's coming from both sides which tells me I must be doing something right. 17:29, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, and thank you for clearing me up on the history of Breitbart. I realized the diff was old, but I didn't realize that Breitbart had at one point been more reliable. By the way, I did read the NPR interview you linked above. Interesting stuff. I don't know that I'm going to go out and buy the book, but it was an interesting read. Definitely made me more aware of some of the problems news orgs have been facing lately.
It still seems like your response to the problem about calling mainstream sources "propaganda" and such is to insist that the problem never existed in the first place, which doesn't really square with diffs like these (emphasis mine):
Sure, each diff is cherry picked out of its larger context and backstory, but can you at least understand why people think there's a problem, and why you need to address that problem head on? ~Awilley (talk) 18:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
My comments were supported by citations to RS. I'm not going to go over each one of your cherrypicked diffs - all of which are taken out of context. The ones you chose happened to be leftist views. I have also criticized alt right and right wing, but you didn't include any of those comments and I don't expect you to. For the sake of brevity, I will quickly point out the last diff because the 2 preceding paragraphs are relevent to context. My reference to propaganda was directed to the insistence of a few editors who, in that RfC discussion, wanted to include the audio of a baby crying in that BLP. Of course, it was not included which was the appropriate action. I stand by my argument as presented but I regret the way I presented it, and that is the crux of my appeal and what I vowed to change. A t-ban is supposed to be about behavior and disruption such as TE. It should not be about a editor's views or their perspective but rather how they present those views. I think you have wandered a little off-track as to what actions should be taken against me and for what reason. If you expect me to become an editor who will agree 100% with a single perspective, or that I will blindly accept whatever an internet source publishes in violation of NOTNEWS, BREAKINGNEWS, and other related guidelines, it simply isn't going to happen. I am not going to change who I am, or my position regarding the need for factual information that is verifiable, and if it's opinion, it needs to include in-line text attribution per our PAGs. Read the top of my TP regarding inclusion of material in a BLP. It also represents my position. I think it's best to conclude our discussion here lest I be wrongfully be accused of violating my t-ban. Follow your heart, AWilley, and thank you for your consideration. 19:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
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... this is such an honor ... I am humbled over the recognition, and feel blessed with the good fortune of having collaborated with some extraordinary past recipients of this memorable award. Such recognition is very much appreciated - thank you Adityavagarwal, Buster7 and Emir of Misplaced Pages - but I must admit that I feel a bit guilty over being rewarded for something I truly love doing...uhm, but not guilty enough to not display it on my user page. 
16:34, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
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