| Revision as of 15:03, 7 December 2006 editMorwen (talk | contribs)Administrators56,992 edits ooh, it's december already.← Previous edit | Revision as of 15:10, 7 December 2006 edit undoHusnock (talk | contribs)12,977 edits answersNext edit → | ||
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| :I'm sure there are, I will research and find them. I jut need time to find them and its hard right now as I am in the Middle East. I will back home next summer. -] 14:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | :I'm sure there are, I will research and find them. I jut need time to find them and its hard right now as I am in the Middle East. I will back home next summer. -] 14:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::I don't really know how to explain how wrong that is. We can't just leave uncited material there for months in the hope you will remember it. If you don't have access to sources, then you simply should not be adding this type of stuff from your memory, please leave it to those of us who do. | ::I don't really know how to explain how wrong that is. We can't just leave uncited material there for months in the hope you will remember it. If you don't have access to sources, then you simply should not be adding this type of stuff from your memory, please leave it to those of us who do. -] - ] 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :::Not to go into a very toucy subject, but I would be careful telling a deployed member of the kilitary they shouldn't edit on Misplaced Pages for whatever reason. I am certianly not going to curtail my editing Misplaced Pages because I'm in the Gulf, P.S. I'm not thinking you meant it badly, it just sounded like that. No one is saying "leave uncited material for four months". I am just saying I can't give ''exact'' sources until I get home and can look them up. This also isn't trying to become an FAC and general sources can do name of books episodes, etc until specifics can be provided. My main goal right now is to get this up and running and save it from the AfD. | |||
| ::I'm not disputing whether it's actually true or not, it's just that replacing a <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> tag here with a reference to an episode is not really providing the requested reference. It is difficult to try to improve articles and the sourcing of articles in an environment where not every editor is on the same page regarding sourcing. | ::I'm not disputing whether it's actually true or not, it's just that replacing a <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> tag here with a reference to an episode is not really providing the requested reference. It is difficult to try to improve articles and the sourcing of articles in an environment where not every editor is on the same page regarding sourcing. Also, yeah, how can "civil law is modeled after the the United States legal system" can be substantiated by a reference to the episode "Court Martial". The very name of the episode rather gives away that it deals, with, well, a Court Martial? ] - ] 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :::Samuel Cogley directly states that the law of Federaton is based on several older documents, among them the Constitution. -] 15:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Also, yeah, how can | |||
| ::"civil law is modeled after the the United States legal system" | |||
| ::can be substantiated by a reference to the episode "Court Martial". The very name of the episode rather gives away that it deals, with, well, a Court Martial? ] - ] 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: (after THREE edit conflicts) But these sources do exist, Husnock? Isn't there someone else here who would have access to such things, who could concievably source the article now? (Your predicament is precisely why I didn't re-enlist , aside from the fact that I didn't wanna screw around with trying to make chief.) --<font face="Verdana">]]]<small><sup>]|]</sup></small></font> 15:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | :: (after THREE edit conflicts) But these sources do exist, Husnock? Isn't there someone else here who would have access to such things, who could concievably source the article now? (Your predicament is precisely why I didn't re-enlist , aside from the fact that I didn't wanna screw around with trying to make chief.) --<font face="Verdana">]]]<small><sup>]|]</sup></small></font> 15:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::: Yes, they do exist. There is at least one that I know of which talks about the "Samual Cogley" style of lawyering. its out of some law essay written by a law firm in St. Louis. Will find it when I have time. -] 15:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 15:10, 7 December 2006
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Sourcing : an example of a problem
I shall assume for the moment that
- "Military law is influenced by the actual Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)"
is a true statement. What sources are needed to substantiate this statement? In order to verify this statement, we need to
- find a quote by a member of production staff that this was their intent
or to
- find a quote by a reliable source, which considers the military law in Star Trek, compares it to the UCMJ, and then notes that it was evidently influenced by it
If we are doing that comparison ourself, then this is original research. The comparison needs to be sourced. Adding "The Drumhead" here as a cite does not address the issue of sourcing, and in fact makes it seem even more like original research than decent unsourced material. Morwen - Talk 14:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
One can argue both sides of the point. I can see why Husnock says this. I've been to the green table (Captain's Mast) and Court Martials (general and special) myself, and everything seems to indicate that whoever wrote this stuff probaby copied it from existing military law. But on the other hand, without a source to prove this , it's OR. Husnock, the frustration you have regarding this issue has to do more with the fact that no sources touch on this topic aside from the shows themselves. Aren't there any kind of publicized production notes or something? --Elaragirl 14:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'm sure there are, I will research and find them. I jut need time to find them and its hard right now as I am in the Middle East. I will back home next summer. -Husnock 14:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- I don't really know how to explain how wrong that is. We can't just leave uncited material there for months in the hope you will remember it. If you don't have access to sources, then you simply should not be adding this type of stuff from your memory, please leave it to those of us who do. -Morwen - Talk 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- Not to go into a very toucy subject, but I would be careful telling a deployed member of the kilitary they shouldn't edit on Misplaced Pages for whatever reason. I am certianly not going to curtail my editing Misplaced Pages because I'm in the Gulf, P.S. I'm not thinking you meant it badly, it just sounded like that. No one is saying "leave uncited material for four months". I am just saying I can't give exact sources until I get home and can look them up. This also isn't trying to become an FAC and general sources can do name of books episodes, etc until specifics can be provided. My main goal right now is to get this up and running and save it from the AfD.
- I'm not disputing whether it's actually true or not, it's just that replacing a {{fact}} tag here with a reference to an episode is not really providing the requested reference. It is difficult to try to improve articles and the sourcing of articles in an environment where not every editor is on the same page regarding sourcing. Also, yeah, how can "civil law is modeled after the the United States legal system" can be substantiated by a reference to the episode "Court Martial". The very name of the episode rather gives away that it deals, with, well, a Court Martial? Morwen - Talk 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- Samuel Cogley directly states that the law of Federaton is based on several older documents, among them the Constitution. -Husnock 15:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- (after THREE edit conflicts) But these sources do exist, Husnock? Isn't there someone else here who would have access to such things, who could concievably source the article now? (Your predicament is precisely why I didn't re-enlist , aside from the fact that I didn't wanna screw around with trying to make chief.) --Elaragirl 15:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, they do exist. There is at least one that I know of which talks about the "Samual Cogley" style of lawyering. its out of some law essay written by a law firm in St. Louis. Will find it when I have time. -Husnock 15:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- I don't really know how to explain how wrong that is. We can't just leave uncited material there for months in the hope you will remember it. If you don't have access to sources, then you simply should not be adding this type of stuff from your memory, please leave it to those of us who do. -Morwen - Talk 15:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)