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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q: Why does the first sentence of the article say the Protocols is fraudulent? Aren't Misplaced Pages articles supposed to be neutral? A: Misplaced Pages articles are absolutely required to maintain a neutral point of view. It has long been established that this work is fraudulent; its author(s) plagiarized a work of fiction, changing the original, Gentile characters into the secret leaders of a Jewish conspiracy. That plagiarized, fictional material is presented as though it were fact. That constitutes a literary fraud. Q: So Misplaced Pages is saying that there was not a secret Jewish conspiracy to rule the world? A: That is an entirely separate issue from the established fact that the Protocols is fraudulent. Q: Why not let the reader decide for him- or herself whether the document is fraudulent or not? Doesn't drawing conclusions constitute WP:OR? A: The article does not draw any conclusions; journalists drew the conclusion in 1921, and numerous scholars have reaffirmed it since then. It is not original research to state that the the Protocols is fraudulent; it is a well-established scholarly fact, as documented and sourced in the article. Numerous similar examples exist throughout Misplaced Pages; for example, the Hitler diaries are demonstrably fake, and the WP article says so—and sources it. Q: But if the fraud is a well-established fact, why do some groups still assert that the Protocols is a genuine document? A: It is difficult to answer why anyone still believes that the Protocols is a real document, other than to say that some people have beliefs that are simply immune to facts (Exhibit A: Holocaust deniers). To those whose minds are made up, it makes no difference that the Protocols have been debunked countless times—or that so much incriminating Holocaust evidence survives that a dozen museums can't hold it all. Q: But you can't disprove the contention that a bunch of Jews got together sometime in the mid-19th century and plotted a conspiracy, can you? A: As already stated, the conspiracy issue is not relevant to this article. But to answer your question, if one was told that the Moon is a giant ball of Gouda cheese covered with a foot-thick layer of dirt, it would be their responsibility to prove them.

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missing references

Michael Hagemeister, https://en.wikipedia.org/Michael_Hagemeister Hanna Arendt, Origins of Totaliarism, https://en.wikipedia.org/The_Origins_of_Totalitarianism Bern Process original sources https://digifindingaids.cjh.org/?pID=477923#a23 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.55.66.147 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect Claim Per the Citation

This article incorrectly states that Henry Ford printed 500,000 copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The cited source actually states that he published his own compilation of newspaper articles entitled "The International Jew".

Specifically, the articles states under the "United States" sub-heading: "In the U.S., Henry Ford sponsored the printing of 500,000 copies (in reference to The Protocols), and, from 1920 to 1922, published a series of antisemitic articles titled 'The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem', in The Dearborn Independent, a newspaper he owned."

For citation, you reference "Could Henry Ford Have Dreamed a Jew Would Run His Car Company?" at https://forward.com/news/198741/could-henry-ford-have-dreamed-a-jew-would-run-his/. According to this page, "Ford also distributed some 500,000 copies of “The International Jew” across America and, with more lethal effect, published it in Europe, as well." Therefore, it should not be stated that Ford printed any copies of The Protocols.

Regards,

Bervin75 (talk) 20:14, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

The Protocols were part of the series of articles which were published in book form as "The International Jew". See AD:

The Protocols were publicized in America by Boris Brasol, a former Czarist prosecutor. Auto magnate Henry Ford was one of those who responded to Brasol’s conspiratorial fantasies. "The Dearborn Independent," owned by Ford, published an American version of the Protocols between May and September of 1920 in a series called ‘The International Jew: the World’s Foremost Problem." The articles were later republished in book form with half a million copies in circulation in the United States, and were translated into several foreign languages.

Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:47, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

That's a very poor source compared to what is available. What does "an American version of the Protocols" actually mean, anyway? You can find sources claiming that the Dearborn Independent serialised the Protocols, but it is not true. Nor does The International Jew contain the Protocols as a whole. If you have a strong stomach you can check for yourself at the Internet Archive. What you will find is original articles that include commentary on the Protocols with quotations from them. Only a fraction of the total is included. Here are more precise descriptions:

"Beginning in 1920 and continuing for nearly two years, the Independent ran a series of ninety-one articles largely based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, an authorless document purporting to lay out the Jewish plan for world domination." (article on DI in Antisemitism — A Historical Encyclopedia of Prejudice and Persecution, ed. Richard Levy, p163).

"Commencing on May 22, 1920, in Henry Ford’s Dearborn Independent, the widely-publicized articles fully exploited the Protocols, dwelling week after week on the clear and present danger posed to American institutions by international Jewry. Rather than merely reprinting the Protocols, William Cameron, the paper’s editor and the person generally believed to be the author of the anti-Jewish articles, elucidated upon them as 'the most comprehensive program for world subjugation that has ever come to public knowledge.'" (Robert Singerman, The American Career of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, American Jewish History; Sep 1, 1981; pp48–)

"Rather than printing all The Protocols in a single 'text,' these writers used shorter articles that mixed parts of the infamous forgery with local, national, and international news items." (M. Hasian, Understanding the power of conspiratorial rhetoric: A case study of the protocols of the elders of Zion, Communication Studies, 48:3, 195-214.)

Zero 11:50, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Neither an anonymous article on the ADL web site, nor an article in The Forward that doesn't mention the Protocols at all, is a suitable source for this page. Zero 13:13, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

If you don't think that the ADL is a reliable source, I suggest you open a discussion on RSN, where it has always been accepted as one. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:15, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Why should I waste my time debating one source when we have others whose reliability is beyond question? Zero 15:59, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Merge from Mikhail Raslovlev

This person is of no interest other than his association with the Protocols; let's clean up another of one Ludvikus' messes. --jpgordon 15:48, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. Zero 11:58, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Requests for clarification

1) Political conspiracy background, 2nd para : ‘Brafman claimed…that the qahal continued to exist in secret…’ I cannot find any reference to ‘the qahal’ being abolished. It is also not clear whether there was one qahal or whether the various local qahals were independent of each other.

2) Political conspiracy background, 3rd para ‘In 1928, Siegfried Passarge, a geographer active in the Third Reich, translated it into German.’ The Third Reich did not exist in 1928. What exactly is meant?

3) Political conspiracy background, 4th para ‘Millingen was a British subject…. served as an officer in the Ottoman Army, where he was born.’ Where was Millingen born?

Sweet6970 (talk) 22:13, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Misleading inf in infobox re plagiarisation

I came to this article knowing nothing about the Protocols except it was an antisemitic hoax. I was astonished, and somewhat shocked, to find that the document had originally been written by Alexander Dumas, who I knew mostly from The Three Musketeers. I had had no idea he was antisemitic. Of course, when I read the article, I found that the infobox was completely misleading: what had been plagiarised was a scene about ‘the affair of the diamond necklace’. I do not think it likely that I am the only person who was misled in this way. I do think it likely that many people never read beyond the infobox and the introduction. So, many people will leave this article thinking that the author of The Three Musketeers wrote The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

The purpose of Misplaced Pages is to inform its readers, not to mislead them. Sweet6970 (talk) 09:32, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree with you and support your change. Actually the main source, Joly, doesn't mention Jews at all. Zero 11:44, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

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