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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

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Requested move 7 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved back to original title, per consensus in the two discussions on this page — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

The Haunting (TV series) → The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) – On 21 February 2019, The Haunting of Hill House was renewed for a second season as an anthology, with The Haunting of Bly Manor as the name for the second season. On the same date, two editors discussed changing title of this article. The following day, The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) page title was changed to The Haunting (TV series). On 4 May 2019, I discovered that the article's title had been changed. As I pointed out in my comment in the "Changing the name of the article" discussion, Netflix "has not titled its series "The Haunting", nor has it announced that The Haunting of Hill House and The Haunting of Bly Manor will in the future be known under the series name The Haunting." Neither have series producers Amblin Television and Paramount Television. The policy for naming articles states preference for: "the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)". The policy for changing the name of an article states: "give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced ... If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Misplaced Pages should continue to do so as well." Reliable sources (for example, The New York Times, Screen Rant, TV Guide, Radio Times, Hypable) not only continue to use The Haunting of Hill House when reporting on the series, but a name change to "The Haunting" has not been announced by the network and producers that decide what name their series is going to be known by. Pyxis Solitary yak 09:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support - the title should match the sources, and the content should be largely limited to the "Hill House" episodes. Time will tell if the industry considers this a "season" or a standalone limited series. For now, treating them as two separate series is the safer option. -- Netoholic @ 10:13, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

There are a ton of sources using "The Haunting of Hill House," including the main source, Netflix. What is there using "The Haunting" - a tweet? That very tweet is from "The Haunting of Hill House" and there is no twitter account for "The Haunting" or "The Haunting of Bly Manor." Guessing about what sources might do in the future is conjecture, right now sources are almost universally using the original name. I support the move back to the original name.--LowRise (talk) 17:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Support series as The Haunting, the first season as The Haunting of Hill House and the second season as The Haunting of Bly Manor. 193.115.82.55 (talk) 11:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

In re "series as The Haunting": see WP:OR. Pyxis Solitary yak 02:33, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Netflix already describes the series continuing in 2020 as The Haunting, as previously stated, and the opposing comment has no basis. 193.115.83.179 (talk) 03:28, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

No. It doesn't. You appear to be unaware of the use of key words in promotional language. Pyxis Solitary yak 04:31, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

And that is your personal opinion on the topic. 193.115.83.179 (talk) 04:36, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

In the discussion above, User:Bearcat states that the word "haunting" is being used "as a verb, not as a title." I've stated that it's a keyword being used to promote the forthcoming season. On its official Twitter account for THoHH, Netflix advertised the new second season as: "A new Haunting is coming."
Whether the use of the word "haunting" is how you see it, or whether it is being used as a verb or a keyword, at this point in time there is no definitive announcement by Netflix (and series producers) that the series has been officially renamed "Haunting "  or  "The Haunting ". Pyxis Solitary yak 05:08, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Nothing to support the use "as a verb, not as a title". 193.115.83.179 (talk) 05:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Status of the series

As it stands, THoHH is the title of the entire series, and it has been renewed for a second SEASON, not a second SERIES, per RS. The requirement for clarifications of June still exist, and a miniseries is no longer a miniseries once it has been confirmed for a second season - you cannot argue with the sources, they specifically say it is a second season of THoHH. All sources are either published upon the first season's released and before the series' renewal, or refer to the series as it was, not what it will be or currently is.

The status quo should remain while the status of the series is in discussion. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 10:52, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

"you cannot argue with the sources, they specifically say it is a second season of THoHH." -- they also say it's a "miniseries". And the second season storyline has nothing to do with The Haunting of Hill House.
This article may very well stay as-is and fall under an umbrella title, just as all the seasons of American Horror Story have (see 14:00, 4 May 2019 comment by Bearcat above). Until such time, what the RSs provide is the information the article also provides. Pyxis Solitary yak 11:51, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Again, all sources referring to the series as a miniseries were either published upon the first season's released and before the series' renewal, or refer to the series as it was, not what it will be or currently is. What the reliable series state is that The Haunting of Hill House has been renewed for a second season, not a second related series. That automatically rules out any current state of the series as a miniseries. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 14:29, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

re "miniseries": The Paste source was published October 10, 2018 -- and the Junkee source was published February 22, 2019 (the day after season 2, The Haunting of Bly Manor, was announced). Pyxis Solitary yak 07:42, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Again yet again, all sources referring to the series as a miniseries were either published upon the first season's released and before the series' renewal, or refer to the series as it was, not what it will be or currently is. Furthermore, one source and its one reviewer that says "miniseries" twice in the article does not necessarily solidify the content as true; it needs to be referred to as such by a wide range of sources to be true and not just by one reviewer. If that one article did not exist and the personal review (so not exactly a reliable source, and more of a blog entry) of that one reviewer wasn't available, what would you have to fall back on? 115.64.238.117 (talk) 10:46, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

The sources met the requirements of WP:RELIABLE and WP:SIGCOV. You have neither requested comments from other editors on this talk page, nor announced a request on WT:WPTV.
You have used more than one IP address -- 220.244.89.101 and 115.64.238.117 -- to dispute the same content and your are gaming the system.

As 220.244.89.101 (Australia - TPG Telecom):

• On 08:43, 14 June 2019 you deleted the content.
• On 08:44, 14 June 2019 you added the hm "Do not change the format of the series without credible sources".
• On 08:51, 14 June 2019 I reverted the edit.
• On 09:27, 14 June 2019 you again deleted the content and re-added the hm.
• On 10:22, 14 June 2019 I restored the content, provided a source, and removed the hm.
• On 10:29, 14 June 2019 you added an "Additional citation needed" template.
• On 12:57, 14 June 2019 I provided a second citation and removed the additional citation template.
• On 13:32, 14 June 2019 you added a "Clarification needed" template for the content+citations.

As 115.64.238.117 (Australia - TPG Telecom):

• On 03:58, 3 July 2019 you deleted the content and clarification template.
• On 08:21, 3 July 2019 I reverted your edit.
• On 08:28, 3 July 2019 I deleted the clarification template.
• On 10:46, 3 July 2019 you re-added the clarification template.
• On 14:32, 3 July 2019 you deleted the content, sources, and clarification template.
• On 07:38, 4 July 2019 I reverted your deletion.
• On 10:42, 4 July 2019 you reverted my edit.

By deleting cited content, you have engaged in tendentious editing. The pattern of edits that you have engaged in under two different IP addresses is disruptive editing. Pyxis Solitary yak 12:59, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

And the sources are being disputed and challenged. Both the links you just cited are guidelines; WP:CHALLENGE is a policy. The content you've added is being challenged, based on the fact that what you're adding is the opinion of a single reviewer, and that is the only website that you are citing, and the only one you are able to, as the series is referred to as such in such a minimal manner. Understand that you do not WP:OWN this page, and thus it is up to you to defend your content in the manner requested. You have failed this.

Now, for your attempted listing, do look up what a dynamic IP is, then get back to me once you understand. If you need me to explain the technical details, I'll be happy to. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 13:39, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

1. Any attempt at WP:CHALLENGE was nullified when two sources were included. You may not like the sources, but your personal opinions do not create policies.
2. "the opinion of a single reviewer". Sources is plural. There are two. No one OWNs this article -- including you.
3. No need to read the yada yada about IP address. You're located in Australia, and whether you're editing Misplaced Pages from home, university, work, or a cafe on the side of the road ... both IP addresses you've used are provided by an Australian Internet service. You're still the one, same person in Australia diddling on this article.
4. You want consensus? Do an RfC, or at minimum ask editors who roam WT:WPTV to come to this talk page and contribute their say. Pyxis Solitary yak 14:14, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Those sources were challenged, reasons provided. The first source was released before the renewal, making it outdated and therefore useless to the argument at hand. But hey, you've got great detective skills. And you're more than welcome to hold an RFC or post to WP:TV, given that it is you trying to implement your edits on the apparent miniseries status of the series. I'm not implementing anything here, I'm restoring the article to how it's been since its creation. But until you do so and gain a consensus for your contested bold edits, the status quo remains. 115.64.238.117 (talk) 14:23, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Split

‎Pyxis Solitary, please state your opposition to the split. None has been provided. I split the article to make the distinct separation between the first and second seasons. As the articles stood, there was only an article for the parent series and the second season, as, yes, Bly Manor is a second season and not a sequel series, as determined by reliable sources and past discussions. The split therefore separated these seasons and made content clearer. The article was split with the correct attribution and thus was acceptable and allowable per Misplaced Pages policy, and not every split requires a discussion to go ahead, so I recommend that you recind your OWN accusation; an OWN behaviour would, for example, include reverting good-faith edits, without a reason or because it was "unnecessary", or requiring your personal approval. -- /Alex/₂₁ 04:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Gutting article to create a Season 1 article

This top-to-bottom article restructure edit was not discussed in the article Talk page prior to being done. This latest edit is an example of WP:OWNERSHIP by User:Alex 21 over this article -- an attitude first displayed when he renamed the article on 22 February 2019 -- which resulted in the page move being reversed on 14 May 2019 after objection by editors.
These "my way or the highway" edits are not examples of WP:BOLD editing, where editors are encouraged to "fix problems, correct grammar, add facts, make sure wording is accurate, etc.," but also advised to be WP:CAREFUL. They're a one-finger salute to other editors. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 05:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I've merged the two sections on this topic. Please actually respond to my comments above, where I have explained my good-faith edits in detail and noted the lack of content-based explanation behind your revert, instead of merely throwing out accusations; remember, talk pages are to discuss content not conduct. Thank you. -- /Alex/₂₁ 05:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I am respecting you by discussing this content civilly; please do the same by taking part in this discussion with your replies civilly. Thank you. -- /Alex/₂₁ 05:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

There is nothing 'civil' about appropriating another editor's comment: 1x, 2x. You do not have the right to decide what an editor writes, where, and why.
Suffice it to say: I'm not buying your snake oil. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:43, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

So, you have no intention to discuss the article content. This is sufficient basis to restore the content. Thank you. -- /Alex/₂₁ 06:47, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Do not manipulate any comment to fit your pre-determined intention. WP:BOLD does not support your edit. If you do not attempt to seek the opinions of other editors, you're here for a one-track-mind self gratification, not collaboration. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Then respond to the content, and not the conduct, like a collaborative editor. Stop deflecting. -- /Alex/₂₁ 06:56, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Pyxis Solitary, I see you are active on this talk page. Do you, or do you not, intend to actually discuss the content civilly? -- /Alex/₂₁ 05:44, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

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